1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:13,467 Speaker 1: from Newstalk s EDB All Blacks v. 3 00:00:13,547 --> 00:00:16,467 Speaker 2: Scotland tomorrow morning, ten past four New Zealand time. You'll 4 00:00:16,467 --> 00:00:18,907 Speaker 2: get a full commentary here on news Talk said B. 5 00:00:19,067 --> 00:00:22,587 Speaker 2: The first time these two have played one another since 6 00:00:22,627 --> 00:00:25,867 Speaker 2: the All Blacks End of Year tour in twenty twenty two. 7 00:00:26,507 --> 00:00:30,827 Speaker 3: They do kick for touch and the All Blacks survive 8 00:00:30,947 --> 00:00:34,307 Speaker 3: a heck of a scale once again at Murrayfield, but 9 00:00:34,427 --> 00:00:37,987 Speaker 3: emerge eight point winner is thirty one twenty three. 10 00:00:38,587 --> 00:00:42,067 Speaker 2: That game was five days short of three years ago. 11 00:00:42,387 --> 00:00:45,467 Speaker 2: Just the four survivors from the All Blacks starting fifteen 12 00:00:45,587 --> 00:00:48,747 Speaker 2: that day, who will start again tomorrow morning, Ethan DeGroot, 13 00:00:48,867 --> 00:00:52,827 Speaker 2: Ardie Savier Boden Barrett and Caleb Clark. This is the 14 00:00:52,867 --> 00:00:56,547 Speaker 2: thirty third meeting between the two all up the Black Aps. 15 00:00:56,707 --> 00:00:58,547 Speaker 2: It's not the Black Caps. The All Blacks have won 16 00:00:58,627 --> 00:01:02,027 Speaker 2: thirty of those matches, two draws, the most recent of 17 00:01:02,067 --> 00:01:05,147 Speaker 2: those draws twenty five, all all the way back in 18 00:01:05,227 --> 00:01:09,707 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. All twenty four matches since then have 19 00:01:09,827 --> 00:01:12,827 Speaker 2: been won by the All Blacks. A man who can 20 00:01:12,867 --> 00:01:15,907 Speaker 2: give us a truly unique perspective is former All Blacks 21 00:01:15,947 --> 00:01:20,787 Speaker 2: assistant coach and former Scotland assistant coach Brad Moore who 22 00:01:20,867 --> 00:01:22,787 Speaker 2: joins us. Now, Brad, let's get straight into it. What 23 00:01:22,987 --> 00:01:27,067 Speaker 2: is Scotland's best strategy for beating the All Blacks for 24 00:01:27,107 --> 00:01:28,107 Speaker 2: the very first time? 25 00:01:28,627 --> 00:01:32,187 Speaker 4: Oh wow, Gay Finy, thanks for thanks for having me 26 00:01:32,227 --> 00:01:35,507 Speaker 4: on privilege to be chatting with you. God, what a 27 00:01:35,507 --> 00:01:38,227 Speaker 4: cracking game it is lining up to be. My ISAA 28 00:01:38,307 --> 00:01:41,947 Speaker 4: shining for it. It's two really good sides picked. I 29 00:01:41,947 --> 00:01:47,947 Speaker 4: think Scotland's mentality at home Murrayfield Special Place, one hundred 30 00:01:48,027 --> 00:01:52,067 Speaker 4: years of footy there will be highly motivating for them. 31 00:01:52,267 --> 00:01:55,027 Speaker 4: And I think they've picked a really strong side. Seven 32 00:01:55,067 --> 00:01:58,587 Speaker 4: British and Irish Lions in the group. I think in 33 00:01:58,627 --> 00:02:05,907 Speaker 4: the starting fifteen, I think they'll they'll be looking for that. Yeah, 34 00:02:06,067 --> 00:02:09,987 Speaker 4: they'll Fred Allen stuff, position, possession and pace of that. 35 00:02:09,987 --> 00:02:12,787 Speaker 5: That parody up front. Get that. 36 00:02:12,987 --> 00:02:16,347 Speaker 4: If they can get parody upfront, even dominated a little bit, 37 00:02:16,387 --> 00:02:20,467 Speaker 4: then then that will give them front football to see 38 00:02:20,467 --> 00:02:22,907 Speaker 4: some very exciting backs do their stuff and play the 39 00:02:22,947 --> 00:02:24,907 Speaker 4: game that they that they love playing, which is a 40 00:02:24,907 --> 00:02:27,227 Speaker 4: lot of possision, a lot of ball and ball in 41 00:02:27,347 --> 00:02:32,747 Speaker 4: hand and Finn Russell orchestrating things from ten, putting them 42 00:02:32,787 --> 00:02:33,667 Speaker 4: in the right places. 43 00:02:34,787 --> 00:02:36,827 Speaker 2: It's such a good summary of everything. So there's a 44 00:02:36,867 --> 00:02:39,707 Speaker 2: bit to unpack there. Let's start with the parity that 45 00:02:39,747 --> 00:02:43,707 Speaker 2: you mentioned there. Can they get forward parity against the 46 00:02:43,747 --> 00:02:44,267 Speaker 2: All Blacks? 47 00:02:45,747 --> 00:02:48,387 Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I think I think so in terms of 48 00:02:48,907 --> 00:02:50,027 Speaker 4: in different areas of a few. 49 00:02:50,107 --> 00:02:52,187 Speaker 5: I think that the All Blacks will be having a 50 00:02:52,187 --> 00:02:53,347 Speaker 5: bit of a crack at the scrum. 51 00:02:53,467 --> 00:02:57,627 Speaker 4: I think with Xander Faguson injured at the moment, tight 52 00:02:57,707 --> 00:03:05,027 Speaker 4: head for Scotland, I'm sure they'll be targeting that that space. 53 00:03:05,467 --> 00:03:06,747 Speaker 5: The Scotland life out. 54 00:03:07,147 --> 00:03:13,187 Speaker 4: There's some some excellent line out forwards in there, Scottie, Collens, Grant, 55 00:03:13,227 --> 00:03:19,467 Speaker 4: Gil Chris. Grant's very experienced now and Scotty's an outstanding 56 00:03:19,707 --> 00:03:23,107 Speaker 4: second rower, so I think they'll they'll be working pretty 57 00:03:23,147 --> 00:03:26,547 Speaker 4: hard there to get good ball and play quick off that. 58 00:03:26,747 --> 00:03:30,107 Speaker 4: So so they see one side having a crack at 59 00:03:30,107 --> 00:03:31,907 Speaker 4: the line out on another side having a crack at 60 00:03:31,907 --> 00:03:35,067 Speaker 4: the scrum. It's it sort of adds up to some 61 00:03:35,107 --> 00:03:37,707 Speaker 4: pretty cool moments and and then then it's about to 62 00:03:37,947 --> 00:03:41,307 Speaker 4: take your moments and the and the breakdown war, which 63 00:03:41,347 --> 00:03:45,147 Speaker 4: I'm sure will be firstly contested with some pretty hungry 64 00:03:45,147 --> 00:03:47,587 Speaker 4: loose boards on both sides, and then the outside backs 65 00:03:47,627 --> 00:03:51,907 Speaker 4: also enjoy having a crack at the ruck. Kyle Stain 66 00:03:51,987 --> 00:03:56,147 Speaker 4: and Darcy Graham Scotland and Lee Roy. 67 00:03:56,067 --> 00:03:59,107 Speaker 5: And Caylib are not afraid to get amongst either. 68 00:03:59,187 --> 00:04:04,707 Speaker 4: So it's I think it's tasty in all those physical areas. 69 00:04:05,707 --> 00:04:07,947 Speaker 5: But if the if there's parody and. 70 00:04:08,307 --> 00:04:11,187 Speaker 4: That that provides the good front football, then both sides 71 00:04:11,187 --> 00:04:12,107 Speaker 4: can be very dangerous. 72 00:04:12,107 --> 00:04:14,187 Speaker 5: I just think it's look lining up to be a cracker. 73 00:04:13,987 --> 00:04:17,667 Speaker 2: Game, absolutely right. Let's talk about Thin Russell, Scotland first five, 74 00:04:18,107 --> 00:04:21,867 Speaker 2: their pivot, their director. Basically what makes him such a 75 00:04:21,907 --> 00:04:22,507 Speaker 2: good player. 76 00:04:24,427 --> 00:04:27,067 Speaker 5: I absolute student of the game. 77 00:04:27,507 --> 00:04:33,707 Speaker 4: So I think when I went over to join Scotland, 78 00:04:33,747 --> 00:04:39,067 Speaker 4: I thought I'd see a mercurial talent things that where 79 00:04:39,107 --> 00:04:42,307 Speaker 4: things just happened for him. Well, what I saw is 80 00:04:42,947 --> 00:04:47,587 Speaker 4: the high talent, awesome skill set of his passing game, 81 00:04:47,907 --> 00:04:51,227 Speaker 4: kicking game, and running game where he just buys time 82 00:04:51,507 --> 00:04:54,867 Speaker 4: on the ball. We're not really sure as a defense 83 00:04:54,987 --> 00:04:58,067 Speaker 4: exactly what he's going to pull, how he's going to 84 00:04:58,147 --> 00:05:00,187 Speaker 4: pull the trigger, where he's going to pass it, run 85 00:05:00,187 --> 00:05:02,187 Speaker 4: at or kick it. He can do all three of 86 00:05:02,227 --> 00:05:05,867 Speaker 4: those things in a pretty quick moment way holds the 87 00:05:05,907 --> 00:05:09,827 Speaker 4: ball buys time off him. So that there's I thought 88 00:05:09,867 --> 00:05:12,067 Speaker 4: that around the mercurial talent, and what I saw is 89 00:05:12,107 --> 00:05:15,347 Speaker 4: that and a massive student of the game where he 90 00:05:15,467 --> 00:05:20,427 Speaker 4: does a lot of homework on his game, his team's game, 91 00:05:20,627 --> 00:05:24,587 Speaker 4: and the opposition and game in general. So he sees 92 00:05:24,667 --> 00:05:28,627 Speaker 4: the pictures really quickly because he's worked earlier during the 93 00:05:28,627 --> 00:05:31,107 Speaker 4: week to see them already and knows what he's looking for, 94 00:05:32,867 --> 00:05:37,507 Speaker 4: to the point where really actually in the in the week, 95 00:05:37,547 --> 00:05:40,147 Speaker 4: by the back end of the week Friday leading into 96 00:05:40,187 --> 00:05:44,107 Speaker 4: a Saturday game, you actually having a conversation mate. You've 97 00:05:44,147 --> 00:05:46,947 Speaker 4: done plenty, You've done enough, You've got the homework done. 98 00:05:47,587 --> 00:05:48,347 Speaker 4: Let's go play. 99 00:05:50,107 --> 00:05:54,147 Speaker 5: So is recalling the game huge can recall the moments 100 00:05:54,227 --> 00:05:57,267 Speaker 5: quickly and have a conversation with you point to point 101 00:05:57,387 --> 00:05:59,867 Speaker 5: without him having actually sat through it again to have 102 00:05:59,907 --> 00:06:00,627 Speaker 5: to watch it again. 103 00:06:00,667 --> 00:06:02,627 Speaker 4: So that's beautiful because you can have in the moment 104 00:06:03,267 --> 00:06:07,147 Speaker 4: conversations without sitting around the computers during at the screen. 105 00:06:07,187 --> 00:06:10,547 Speaker 4: It's just it's a footy chat that leads to some 106 00:06:11,747 --> 00:06:15,307 Speaker 4: beautiful points. So really enjoyed working with him, and just 107 00:06:15,347 --> 00:06:17,947 Speaker 4: saw a guy who works very very hard and cares 108 00:06:17,987 --> 00:06:22,787 Speaker 4: massively for his country and his club and the people 109 00:06:22,827 --> 00:06:24,107 Speaker 4: around him. 110 00:06:24,147 --> 00:06:26,427 Speaker 2: What kind of coaches Griger towns. 111 00:06:26,227 --> 00:06:34,347 Speaker 4: End Very curious, hard working, very passionate about the game 112 00:06:34,787 --> 00:06:39,867 Speaker 4: and how it can be played. So I see him 113 00:06:39,947 --> 00:06:43,027 Speaker 4: very optimistic about the game. There's always an opportunity for him, 114 00:06:43,067 --> 00:06:47,427 Speaker 4: and I think he's been really clear with Scotland as 115 00:06:47,427 --> 00:06:51,707 Speaker 4: to what talent and skill set they've got in their group, 116 00:06:51,747 --> 00:06:55,547 Speaker 4: and then building that whilst also and then and then 117 00:06:55,867 --> 00:07:02,067 Speaker 4: adapting a game to suit the players abilities that they've got, 118 00:07:02,147 --> 00:07:07,227 Speaker 4: so really clear on the identity of the game, curious 119 00:07:07,267 --> 00:07:09,747 Speaker 4: about how to take that forward, and then builds a 120 00:07:09,827 --> 00:07:13,347 Speaker 4: week that fits into all of that, and is clear 121 00:07:13,787 --> 00:07:17,627 Speaker 4: about their connection. What's important is people and then how 122 00:07:18,027 --> 00:07:22,067 Speaker 4: I'm driving the hard work in between, Like he's puts 123 00:07:22,067 --> 00:07:24,627 Speaker 4: his shoulder to the well massively and provides a great 124 00:07:24,667 --> 00:07:27,067 Speaker 4: example of leadership in that space. 125 00:07:28,107 --> 00:07:30,307 Speaker 2: Is the fact that Scotland have never beaten the All 126 00:07:30,347 --> 00:07:32,867 Speaker 2: Blacks a motivation or a burden? 127 00:07:34,307 --> 00:07:37,627 Speaker 4: Well, I guess it can be both, can't It depends 128 00:07:37,667 --> 00:07:39,987 Speaker 4: on your mindset and approach to that. 129 00:07:41,107 --> 00:07:45,467 Speaker 5: I think that with this group that will provide a motivation. 130 00:07:47,027 --> 00:07:50,027 Speaker 4: And no doubt the All Blacks will be highly motivated 131 00:07:50,067 --> 00:07:50,827 Speaker 4: by that as well. 132 00:07:50,827 --> 00:07:54,667 Speaker 5: It's a motivation for our team too, isn't it. 133 00:07:54,707 --> 00:07:59,907 Speaker 4: So it's the mindset it is motivated to keep it, 134 00:08:00,067 --> 00:08:02,027 Speaker 4: motivated to break it. I'm sure the All Blacks will 135 00:08:02,067 --> 00:08:06,267 Speaker 4: look to start fast and put Scotland into a position 136 00:08:06,507 --> 00:08:10,787 Speaker 4: of ah shiver as we've been here before, and potentially 137 00:08:10,907 --> 00:08:13,307 Speaker 4: try to create some doubt in the minds of Scotland. 138 00:08:13,347 --> 00:08:17,387 Speaker 4: Are we looking to keep the heat on, put themselves 139 00:08:17,427 --> 00:08:21,067 Speaker 4: in a position where they can finish strong and take 140 00:08:21,147 --> 00:08:25,107 Speaker 4: the moments You know that test Rugby. The margins are tiny, 141 00:08:25,627 --> 00:08:28,467 Speaker 4: but the consequences of those margins are big. So you've 142 00:08:28,467 --> 00:08:32,627 Speaker 4: just got to try to make add more more moments 143 00:08:32,707 --> 00:08:35,027 Speaker 4: up and win more of those little moments to take 144 00:08:35,067 --> 00:08:35,987 Speaker 4: your opportunities. 145 00:08:37,107 --> 00:08:39,027 Speaker 2: Bra What do you think it'll take for Scotland to 146 00:08:39,147 --> 00:08:41,827 Speaker 2: move from if we expand this out of it from 147 00:08:41,867 --> 00:08:45,147 Speaker 2: regular Six Nations wins which they get most years. You know, 148 00:08:45,187 --> 00:08:47,627 Speaker 2: they beat England, you know they'll beat Island here and there, 149 00:08:47,627 --> 00:08:49,027 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, but they haven't won the Six 150 00:08:49,107 --> 00:08:52,387 Speaker 2: Nations since it became the Six Nations and what two thousands? 151 00:08:52,907 --> 00:08:54,547 Speaker 2: What's it going to take for them to find the 152 00:08:54,667 --> 00:08:58,547 Speaker 2: consistency to start challenging for six Nations titles. 153 00:09:01,707 --> 00:09:05,387 Speaker 4: Yeah, great question. I think the consistency is the thing. 154 00:09:05,467 --> 00:09:11,107 Speaker 4: I think that's by building depth, and I think that 155 00:09:11,107 --> 00:09:15,827 Speaker 4: that's been happening. There's got some awesome top class players 156 00:09:15,947 --> 00:09:18,507 Speaker 4: and then quietly building the depth in between that you know, 157 00:09:18,507 --> 00:09:20,667 Speaker 4: when there's seven or eight players off it, I think 158 00:09:20,747 --> 00:09:23,027 Speaker 4: might have been nine, even Scott's at the British and 159 00:09:23,067 --> 00:09:25,427 Speaker 4: Irish Lions. The side that came out here played the 160 00:09:25,467 --> 00:09:29,187 Speaker 4: news on a Maori Fiji Sama. That's a great opportunity 161 00:09:29,227 --> 00:09:34,667 Speaker 4: to build another layer of test match experience underneath and 162 00:09:34,707 --> 00:09:37,227 Speaker 4: bring the middle you sort of middle tier up to 163 00:09:37,307 --> 00:09:42,427 Speaker 4: leadership roles, so that that building of depth, so that 164 00:09:42,547 --> 00:09:46,267 Speaker 4: you can go in a six Nations competition, which is 165 00:09:47,627 --> 00:09:53,147 Speaker 4: five Tier one tests in a row potentially one week, 166 00:09:53,347 --> 00:09:55,907 Speaker 4: one week of a fellow week of no footy and 167 00:09:55,947 --> 00:09:56,427 Speaker 4: amongst that. 168 00:09:56,547 --> 00:10:00,307 Speaker 5: Now it was two when I was there in twenty three. 169 00:10:00,827 --> 00:10:03,227 Speaker 4: But to be able to put tests to test to 170 00:10:03,307 --> 00:10:06,947 Speaker 4: test to test to test together, you need to be 171 00:10:07,027 --> 00:10:10,547 Speaker 4: able to have that depth to keep putting the pressure 172 00:10:10,587 --> 00:10:13,227 Speaker 4: on each other during the week and to support each 173 00:10:13,227 --> 00:10:15,547 Speaker 4: other to be able to slot in and share the 174 00:10:15,587 --> 00:10:19,147 Speaker 4: load as those opportunities arrive, so I think that that'd 175 00:10:19,227 --> 00:10:24,427 Speaker 4: be one thing and just continually continuing to lock to 176 00:10:24,467 --> 00:10:26,547 Speaker 4: take your moments, don't try and look at the six 177 00:10:26,627 --> 00:10:28,387 Speaker 4: Nations as one big campaign. 178 00:10:28,827 --> 00:10:31,947 Speaker 5: Game to game is the way to break that down. 179 00:10:32,627 --> 00:10:34,547 Speaker 2: You're looking forward to getting back with the Crusaders when 180 00:10:34,627 --> 00:10:36,907 Speaker 2: you get back early early December. Do you normally get 181 00:10:36,907 --> 00:10:38,267 Speaker 2: back into keep or you're back in now? 182 00:10:38,907 --> 00:10:39,307 Speaker 5: No? 183 00:10:39,307 --> 00:10:41,427 Speaker 4: No, we'll be back and so the lads from the 184 00:10:41,507 --> 00:10:45,667 Speaker 4: NPC they are on leave now that and so they 185 00:10:45,667 --> 00:10:50,187 Speaker 4: have a break and stay fit and king during that themselves. 186 00:10:51,267 --> 00:10:55,147 Speaker 4: And obviously boys playing tests are away in New Zealand 187 00:10:55,227 --> 00:10:57,387 Speaker 4: fifteen as well, which is which is great to see 188 00:10:57,467 --> 00:11:00,307 Speaker 4: lots of lads having a crack in there. So we're 189 00:11:00,347 --> 00:11:03,747 Speaker 4: back at last two days of November and then we're 190 00:11:03,747 --> 00:11:08,147 Speaker 4: into it for for three weeks before Christmas as a group, training, 191 00:11:08,227 --> 00:11:12,707 Speaker 4: connecting and doing what we love. So very excited as 192 00:11:12,907 --> 00:11:17,307 Speaker 4: a heck of a group again. The conversations and the 193 00:11:17,347 --> 00:11:21,387 Speaker 4: work done in this three four month period to be 194 00:11:21,667 --> 00:11:24,467 Speaker 4: aligned as a coaching a management group as to how 195 00:11:24,507 --> 00:11:28,227 Speaker 4: to how we want to take our group forward and 196 00:11:28,267 --> 00:11:31,907 Speaker 4: evolve our game and have been really rich and enjoyable 197 00:11:32,187 --> 00:11:35,067 Speaker 4: and there's huge excitement about getting back into it. 198 00:11:34,987 --> 00:11:37,147 Speaker 2: My bed there is good man, Brad, how you've provided 199 00:11:37,187 --> 00:11:39,307 Speaker 2: us some terrific insight. Thanks indeed for joining us, mate, 200 00:11:40,027 --> 00:11:42,787 Speaker 2: have a great weekend and enjoy you watching All Black 201 00:11:42,827 --> 00:11:43,627 Speaker 2: Scotland tomorrow. 202 00:11:44,107 --> 00:11:46,067 Speaker 5: Oh I can't wait. It's going to be magniicent. 203 00:11:46,107 --> 00:11:48,547 Speaker 4: But thanks Piney, it's a pleasure and appreciate the opportunity. 204 00:11:48,587 --> 00:11:50,707 Speaker 2: No, appreciate you joining us, Brad. Thanks and deg great 205 00:11:50,707 --> 00:11:53,547 Speaker 2: insight from you. Brad Moore there, who has been inside 206 00:11:53,547 --> 00:11:57,027 Speaker 2: both camps, All Black's assistant coach under Ian Foster and 207 00:11:57,267 --> 00:12:01,027 Speaker 2: Scotland assistant coach under Gregor Townsend. You've heard from Brad 208 00:12:01,067 --> 00:12:03,467 Speaker 2: Moore you've thought about this game all week I presume anyway, 209 00:12:03,707 --> 00:12:05,307 Speaker 2: I would love your reaction to what you heard there 210 00:12:05,347 --> 00:12:12,427 Speaker 2: from Brad, who buy the is a pretty analytical rugby thinker, 211 00:12:12,507 --> 00:12:16,187 Speaker 2: isn't he? From what you heard there, and you think 212 00:12:16,187 --> 00:12:20,827 Speaker 2: to yourself, he's been successful everywhere he's been, with the 213 00:12:20,867 --> 00:12:25,707 Speaker 2: exception of the All Blacks, and listening to him there, 214 00:12:25,747 --> 00:12:28,507 Speaker 2: I can't help but thinking he's still got plenty to offer, 215 00:12:29,427 --> 00:12:31,707 Speaker 2: plenty to offer At the moment, the Crusaders are getting 216 00:12:31,707 --> 00:12:35,387 Speaker 2: the benefit of that. But Brad Moore worked with Scott 217 00:12:35,467 --> 00:12:41,107 Speaker 2: Robertson at the Crusaders. Jason Holland is leaving the All 218 00:12:41,107 --> 00:12:45,227 Speaker 2: Blacks coaching setup at the end of this year. Is 219 00:12:45,267 --> 00:12:49,667 Speaker 2: there an opening for Brad Moore? Maybe that's a conversation 220 00:12:49,747 --> 00:12:50,427 Speaker 2: for another day. 221 00:12:51,187 --> 00:12:54,387 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 222 00:12:54,467 --> 00:12:57,747 Speaker 1: to News Talk sed B weekends from midday or follow 223 00:12:57,787 --> 00:12:59,427 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.