1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: As we mark the fifteenth aniversary of Pike River this week, 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: we hear that police have decided they believe they've got 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: enough evidence to lay manslaughter charges. The alleged act of 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: gross negligence were causative, which meets the threshold for manslaughter. 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Nigel Hampton Casey is the criminal defense lawyer, of course, 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: representing the families and is with us Nigel Mourning morning. Now, 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: I can't work out where this is coming from the 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: police saying this publicly or are you saying this publicly 9 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: because you got it from the police. 10 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: I'm saying it publicly because I've had information given me 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: through the police and I want to try and exert 12 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: pressure as much as I can to have some decision 13 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: made by the Crowns Office in Wellington as to whether 14 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: the police view that prosecutions are justified on the evidence 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: they've obtained, whether that view is going to prevail all 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 2: the Crown they're going to back down. 17 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: What's your gut? 18 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: My gut is that the Crown will do something, but 19 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: it may not be all that is desired. Half of 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: the primarily the two women that I've been acting for, 21 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: Anna and Sonya. 22 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 3: What's that mean? What's doing something mean. 23 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: Well, that's where I run into difficulty talking publicly about 24 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: that aspect, Mike, because I've made some I've been given 25 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: some fundational on a confidential basis, and I can't I 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 2: can't disturb that confidence. 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 3: Yet, no problem at all. Are you bullish on it? Though? 28 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: Half knacking? 29 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 3: My problem? 30 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just an interested observer 31 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: of all of this. 32 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 3: Over the years. 33 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: Is that it's like fifteen years, a long time delay, 34 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: a charge, memories evidence people. You know, it's a big 35 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: it's a big hurdle. 36 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: Look, it is a big hurdle. The delay totally unacceptable. 37 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: I mean, back in the end of the Royal Commission 38 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: back in twenty thirty, the evidence of gross negligence was 39 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: there way back then. It was a matter from the 40 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: police point of view. At that stage they backed off 41 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: because partner the Labor Works Safe, We're going to prosecute 42 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 2: Whittle under the Health and Safety Act. That was illegally 43 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: bought off. That prosecution. The police there and didn't do 44 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: anything much until re entry was gained. Then they got 45 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: the further evidence that made that causative link that had 46 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: been lacking, the causative link between the gross negligence, the 47 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: explosion and the desk that had to be obtained if 48 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 2: there was going to be a successful prosecution. It's taken 49 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: a long time to complete that investigation. Lots more boreholes, 50 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: lots more scientific research. It's been slow. I understand that painstaking. 51 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: But now to have they reached the view the police 52 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 2: reached the view on their materials about a year ago, 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: and that becomes unacceptable that extra delay. 54 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 3: Is it political? 55 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: Not overtly, I wouldn't suggest that, but the Crown will 56 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 2: always weigh up those sort of factors, external factors and 57 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: coming to the view whether the evidence is sufficient and 58 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 2: secondly whether it's in the public interest. And delay enters 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: into the public interest arena as well, the fact the 60 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: sort of factors you mentioned will enter into it, the 61 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 2: long period of delay, the effective memories, people disappear, you 62 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: know all that, and evidence degrades. 63 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, all right, that what's your best with it? 64 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: To take care Nigel Hampton Casey, criminal defense lawyer. For 65 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news 66 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the 67 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.