1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: The Wellington MP Tamotha Paul's support for Pork the vandal 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: the tagger has prompted the question what counts as art 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: and who gets to decide? Street artists want clearer rules 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: after a tager known as Pork was hit with charges 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: and hefty fines for his work across Auckland. Auckland street 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: artist Jesse Jensen is with us. Hi Jesse, Hello, what 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: what are the clearer rules that we need? 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: Jesse eat? Ah? Would I start? I mean, firstly, where 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: does one go to paint legally? Like? There just isn't 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: an outlet. It's like it's like how skating used to be. Yeah, 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: now you got skate bugs. Well where's the art puts? 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: Okay, but that's not a rule, that's a facility. So 13 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: what are the clearer rules? Because let me let me 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: put it to you like this, The rules are clear. 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: You don't go around putting putting tags on other people's buildings. 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: And now Pork's in trouble for it. So what what's 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: clear about that? 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: Who owns public space? Who who has rights to create 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: public art? And public spaces. 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: Don't? What is a public space? 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: Well you've got it, You've got the street and then 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: you've got a little bit of grass in front of 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 2: your house, and then you've got your fence. 24 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: But we do know who owns that, Like I own 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: my fence, the council owns the boom, and the council 26 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: owns the street. 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: Well, if you've got a friend, if you've got a 28 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 2: fence that faces the street, you own what goes on 29 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: that fence. But if you own a fence that faces 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: into a public reserve, you don't have the same rights 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: of what you can do on your fence, so it's 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: blurred and a reserve they own the face of the 33 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: fence that faces them. So you know your neighbor face 34 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: owns the face of your fence facing into their property. 35 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: So why does the public own the front of your fence? 36 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: Maybe that's it's a good debate, like who owns all 37 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: these public spaces? Who gets to decide what billboards you 38 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: get smashed in the face with every day? Like why 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 2: is it so lopsided with the number of people who 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: control what gets put in our face in public spaces? 41 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: And that's why you have people doing it illegally because 42 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 2: they want to be able to say things in public 43 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: spaces and they're just not allowed. 44 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: That's quite a deep conversation to have. Could we so 45 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: convenent the deep conversation about all of that stuff and 46 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: just give you guys a wall to tag on? Would 47 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: that solve that problem? 48 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: I think it would. It would go a long way 49 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 2: to make the quality of the work be better because 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: people would have a place to go on practice, and 51 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: then you'd see better stuff in public spaces. And I 52 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 2: think people's understanding of what I guess it's like as 53 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: simple as do you have permission? It's like, if that's 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: all it comes down to about what is art and 55 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: what isn't, well, then yeat a lot of graffiti and stuff. 56 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 2: Obviously it doesn't have permission. But when banks he paints 57 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: are building, it didn't matter that he didn't get permission. 58 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: They still put perspects over it and make it into 59 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 2: like a tourist destination. 60 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: Not always though, way like sometimes they actually cover it 61 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: up for various reasons. Jesse. Somehow, I don't think though 62 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: that this really applies to Pork, because I reckon, I 63 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: don't reckon that's what Pork was up to. Like, I 64 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: think if we did a beautiful if we go, if 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: we gave a massive wall to you guys and said 66 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: go for it, make it beautiful. Pork sounds to me 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: like he was on some sort of like mind altering 68 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: substance that would make him still want to go and 69 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: clamber up something in Spaghetti Junction and tag his name 70 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: on the side of something there. 71 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, the place you do the art also says something. 72 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: So you might not like the content of what was painted, 73 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: But the fact that he climbed up there, that's impressive, right. 74 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: I suppose so. Not the kind of impressive though that 75 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: makes me go well done. You may like more like 76 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: the kind of impressive that I mean. Maybe he could 77 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: have climbed a tree or something instead without tagging, and 78 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: I would be equally impressed, don't you think? 79 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: Do you think he should go to jail for it? 80 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: Though he's not going to go to jail as there's 81 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: just a couple of fines and some community work. Yeah, 82 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: I think you should do that. What do you think. 83 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: I know a lot of people who paint graffiti, and 84 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: you you do go to jail for it when you 85 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 2: get charged for it. Enough, I've been put in prison 86 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: for jail myself. Yeah, I've been put in prison for 87 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 2: graffiti myself. Yet, why didn't you stop reminders I don't 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 2: do it legally. I do it legally. 89 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: Well, why do you go to custody then? 90 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: Because I because I did a lot of graffiti. 91 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: Oh okay, all right, well Jesse, thank you for that lightning. 92 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: Jesse Jensen Auckland Street Are for more from Hither Duplessy 93 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: Allen Drive. Listen live to News Talks A B from 94 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.