1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Speaking of a budget office, the government's voted against setting 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: up an independent costing his agency. This is an agency 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: that would have let political parties fact check their numbers 4 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: before making big promises and before the accusations start flying 5 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: inevitably about fiscal holes and fiscal cliffs and black holes. 6 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Finance Minister Nicola Willis took the proposal to Cabinet Monday, 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: shot down by Act and New Zealand First Ruth Richardson, 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: former Finance Minister tax Payers Union chair, on the show 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: this morning. Good morning, good morning, thanks for being with me. 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: Do you are you disappointed that Seymour and Winston have 11 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: shut this down? 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: No, I'm not. I mean, let's start with the problem 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: that the Minister was trying to solve. I mean, there's 14 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: a compelling case for a new fiscal institution that ensures 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: transparency and credibility in public finance management. And why because 16 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: we know the quality of fiscal management has declined, the 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: budget deficit is structural, and the politicians gained the system 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: so that my fiscal responsibility rules are no longer enough. 19 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: So the Minister was on the right track in recognizing 20 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: that action was required, but her proposal falls far short 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: of what is required? 22 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: What is required then, do you think. 23 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 2: Well, what's required is that we want a publicly resourced 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: body that is independent of the executive and that ensures 25 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 2: more formal or more informed public and parliamentary debate. So 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 2: we need look no further than the Office of Budget 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: Responsibility in the United Kingdom, a little bit like the 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 2: one we've heard about in the United States, and that 29 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: is a body that attends independently of the executive to 30 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: economic and fiscal forecasting, evaluating fiscal targets, scrutinizing policy costings, 31 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: and assessing fiscal sustainability and highlighting fiscal risks. Now that's 32 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: the gold standard, and that I assume is what ACT 33 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: in New Zealand first gunning for. 34 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: So we could yet see a different iteration of this. 35 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: Is it really going to make a big difference to voters, 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: particularly around election time? I mean you look at the 37 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: Australians have got a form of this, and I mean 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: you still had you still had your fiscal clips, you 39 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: still had your black holes, you still had a lot 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: of uncertainty. 41 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: No, Australia is not an example that we should be 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: looking to. We should start with my fiscal responsibility rules 43 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 2: understand they are necessary, but not sufficient. What do we 44 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: need to fix the fiscal disclosure problems now? We need 45 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: a gold standard institution independent of the executive, that gives 46 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: the public the figures that they can rely on publicly, 47 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 2: not stupid that they know that you cannot perpetually rack 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: up debts and run deficits. The new generation are basically 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: saying we're generation screwed because we have to pay the 50 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 2: price of all of this. So the public are wanting 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: figures that they can rely and they want an institution 52 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 2: that's got credibility and that institution is not a parliamentary 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: office subject to the dictate of public servants run by 54 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: the executive. They want an independent fiscal institution and that 55 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: I believe is now in public domain and there is 56 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 2: a compelling case for it. 57 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: Ruth, appreciate your time this morning. Ruth Richardson Taxpayers Union 58 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: chare former finance minister. For more from earlier edition with 59 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: Ryan Bridge, Listen live to News Talks at be from 60 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: five am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.