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Speaker 1: Right now. He's the man who makes sure that we

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Speaker 1: get the truth. The chief Onboardsman, Peter Bouch shares his name.

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Speaker 1: He's leaving his role this month after ten years in

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Speaker 1: the job. He quit you'll remember last year. But because

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Speaker 1: the onboardsman can't be older than seventy two by law.

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Speaker 1: It's a really weird archaic law, but it's true. The

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Speaker 1: current government asked him to stay on anyway, and now

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Speaker 1: his term is finally coming to an end. Has parting

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Speaker 1: message a call for stiffer penalties on government departments that

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Speaker 1: delay and get around the release of official information. Peter

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Speaker 1: bouches with me this evening, good evening, Good evening, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: How does it feel knowing you're too old for this? Now?

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Speaker 2: The funny thing is I don't feel too old. So

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Speaker 2: when it comes to whether I'm still enjoying the job

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Speaker 2: and whether I have the answer of yes in both respects, I.

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Speaker 1: Want to get some juice out of you while we've

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Speaker 1: got you. Who's the worst minister thataay, who's the worst

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Speaker 1: minister or ministry?

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Speaker 2: And Ryan, I'm not even going to begin to answer

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Speaker 2: that one, So you know me. One of the reasons

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Speaker 2: that I think we've done well, in this job is

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Speaker 2: we've never gone to the person. We've always gone for

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Speaker 2: the issue, and that's what I'll always continue to do.

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Speaker 1: Come on, you must you must have someone. You must

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Speaker 1: have a little black bok of ministers that you'd you know,

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Speaker 1: you'd like to expose.

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Speaker 2: Now, this is a good thing. I don't have a

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Speaker 2: black book. And everything we do is out there and transparent.

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Speaker 2: So I'm I know why you're asking me, and the

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Speaker 2: answer is everything that we do is transparent. There's no secrecy.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Then on a personal level, what are summer Well,

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Speaker 1: what is the worst you think cover up for want

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Speaker 1: of a better word, that you've come across.

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Speaker 2: Now, I want to say this to you. I don't

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Speaker 2: think we have cover ups in this country. I know

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Speaker 2: some other countries do. But the whole of the time

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Speaker 2: that I've done this job, since the end of two

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Speaker 2: thousand and fifteen, there is a level of transparency that

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Speaker 2: I think we can be thankful for. Where we have

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Speaker 2: to watch it is the fact that we've decreased in

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Speaker 2: our transparency ratings. We're once one, we are now down

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Speaker 2: to number four. We need to watch it run because

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Speaker 2: in some recent bills before Parliament that I've submitted on

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Speaker 2: there are carve outs of the OIA that ministers are introducing.

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Speaker 2: Now that's a slippery slope and we've got to keep

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Speaker 2: our eye on the ball.

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Speaker 1: So most of what because we hear a lot about

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Speaker 1: the OIA, and people you know probably roll their eyes

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Speaker 1: and think, well, who cares. I mean, it is important,

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Speaker 1: but you're saying it's never really in New Zealand an

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Speaker 1: intention intentionally hiding stuff. It's more by accident or not

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Speaker 1: rather than by design.

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Speaker 2: I want to give you and listeners a reassurance that

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Speaker 2: in all of the deep dives we've done, we've never

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Speaker 2: found a deliberate wish to not release or to cover up.

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Speaker 2: And I do think it's important that I say that

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Speaker 2: that balance up the next comment, which is that whereas

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Speaker 2: some agencies I've singled out as being very very good performers,

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Speaker 2: and Treasury and Department of Primers from kept our examples,

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Speaker 2: there are some that I've needed to ask them to

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Speaker 2: lift the game because they are not performing in the

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Speaker 2: spirit of this Act. And the Official Information Act is

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Speaker 2: fundamentally important that it gives you, It gives anyone who

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Speaker 2: wants to the right for accountability from decision makers, and

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Speaker 2: it gives you the right to have input into what's

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Speaker 2: going on. Unless you've got those rights, that's a severe infringement.

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Speaker 1: What are you going to do next now that you're

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Speaker 1: too old for it?

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Speaker 2: Now that I'm too old? You keep saying that, I

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Speaker 2: know that I am. No, I don't feel old, and

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Speaker 2: I'll continue to be interested in what goes on around me.

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Speaker 2: I'll want to enjoy life of it. But I do

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Speaker 2: think the secret to why I've enjoyed this job so

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Speaker 2: much is because I've always chased the curious. I've always

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Speaker 2: wanted to be inquisitive. That's what I'll continue to do.

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Speaker 1: And you're only seventy what not even seventy two? For

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Speaker 1: goodness sake? I mean, really, it's not old, is it.

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Speaker 1: They need to change they need to change that law.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a matter. Yeah, that's very much a matter

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Speaker 2: for Parliament. But I think you're right to raise the

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Speaker 2: issue because is there a magic in an age and

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Speaker 2: the answers? I don't think there is. I think some

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Speaker 2: are who are less than seventy two in whatever probably

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Speaker 2: aren't up to it. There are some, including cabinet ministers,

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Speaker 2: who are well over seventy two, are very much onto it,

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Speaker 2: so I think the artificiality is a bit gross, actually.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a bit arbitrary. Hey, well, thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for coming well over all these years. Really, Peter, it's

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Speaker 1: been great to have you on, and I know that

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Speaker 1: you've been quite fastidious in the work that you do.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Well, Ryan, thank you, and also hither All say, look,

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Speaker 2: it's been a plea because you're direct in your articulate

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Speaker 2: all are very busy for you as well.

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Speaker 1: Peter, thank you very much. Peter Bochhare, the outgoing chief onwardsman.

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Speaker 1: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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Speaker 1: news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.