1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Now we have waited a year for the fairies decision, 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: and it looks like we're going to be waiting quite 3 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: a bit longer because we got very little yesterday. No fairies, 4 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: no price, no decision by the looks of things. The 5 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: new Minister for rail we did get, that is Winston 6 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Peters and he's with us now morning, Winston, good morning. 7 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: So what's going on? Why no decision yesterday? 8 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: The reason for that is that we inherited coming back 9 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: into government in twenty twenty three an unholy mess where 10 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: the costs were blowing out to three point two billion 11 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: and rising to where as Treasury said four billion, and 12 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: then you had all the other uncertainties as well, and 13 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: the massive infrastructure costs was eighty percent of the whole deal. 14 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 2: So that was not the project that there were charge 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: was doing when I was last Minister of Railways, and 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 2: so this was a circumstances that took some time to 17 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: try and unravel. But here we are set to go 18 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: now and very very shortly we'll announce what the long 19 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 2: term future will be. But what we want is efficient, 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 2: effective transport systems in this country, and the ferry operations 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: in the Cork Strait are critical to that. 22 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: Okay, So is it the case this has been reported 23 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: this morning that Nikola Willis has actually hammered out a deal. 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: But those fairies are not rail enabled and you want 25 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: a chance to try and better her deal? Is that 26 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: what's going on? 27 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 2: No? 28 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Has she hammered out a deal? No, there is no 29 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: deal with Staina. 30 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: Roro third time. 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: No, So where is the nine hundred million dollars coming from? Then? 32 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: Well, for somebody doing guess work and being repeated by 33 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: the mainstream media, it's sad to say, I hope you 34 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: don't repeat it because it's not true, it's not accurate, 35 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: it's not based on anything at all. 36 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: Is that your fiscal envelope? 37 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: Sorry? And I can't understand why these sorts of chivalerts 38 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: get so much airtime. 39 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: Is that how much money she's given you? 40 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: Though? 41 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: Has she set a fiscal envelope said you've got nine 42 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: hundred million and you can go away and do with 43 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: it what you will. 44 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: I find this person extraord Heather, Probably some claimed insiders 45 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: have been telling you that, But that again is not true. 46 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: No, I mean this has been widely reported by multiple 47 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: different media outlets. 48 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: Well, that's the point. The wider it gets reported if 49 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: it starts off off as a piece of shipleth or 50 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: shipleth or a deceit or bye, it just carries on. 51 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: But you know, and we've got to do better. 52 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: Well to tell us how much money you've gotten? Said 53 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: it right? 54 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: Well, now, why would I possibly do that given that 55 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: we've got to look at all aspects of this, including 56 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: potential rescue boats in the sound so to speak, or 57 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: in the cook straight because all this infrastructure has been 58 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: let go all the time. And here we've got a 59 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: massive job in front of us, and to rush out 60 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: and say what we're going to do is start saying 61 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: what we're going to buy them for is to set 62 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: the bottom price from which the ship builders will start 63 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: increasing their profits. And we're not going to make those 64 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: sary mistakes because it's bad business. 65 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: But don't you think they're going to do that anyway? 66 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: I mean even at let's say you negotiate with the 67 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: Swedish guy, is that just going to hit the Google 68 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: and find out that there's nine hundred million to play with? 69 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 2: Well, they can hit the Google as long as I like, 70 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: but they won't be finding as nine hundred million. Okay, Okay, 71 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 2: I just told you that I told you that three times, 72 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: and you're repeating it for four time. See what's wrong 73 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: with the Zillers media here? You just go keep on 74 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: reporting utter total crap. 75 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: The more indignant you get, the more I believe that 76 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: it's the truth. I'll tell you're winstea okay. 77 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: Okay, And I know you'll have plenty of time on 78 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: the Official Mation Act in the future to find it 79 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: whether I'm saying or not true. And when you do, 80 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: can you please go on the program and say I'm 81 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: so sorry, Yeah, I'm aligned, Winston. 82 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: Go do that, I will. Winston explains something to me. 83 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: Then if you haven't, if if Nikola hasn't been hammering 84 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: out a deal, then you want to better. What the 85 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: hell have you guys been doing for a year. 86 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: Well, look, we got hold of a program that I 87 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: commissioned in May of twenty twenty, which was to be 88 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: four hundred point one million dollars. 89 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: Ye, but you can do it year ago, Winston. You 90 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: guys have had more than enough time to come up 91 00:03:58,520 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: with something better than this. 92 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: Well, when you say we can canceled a year ago 93 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: trying to unravel those things, we took a bit of time. 94 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: I admit it's taken too longer, but we've been the job. 95 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: But just now lessen one day, here's a chance, and 96 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: we'll show you what we can do, as we did 97 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: in past times on when we were running. 98 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: But this makes no sense to me. Okay, so you 99 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: canceled something. It's literally almost to the day. You canceled 100 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: something in on about the fourteenth of December last year. 101 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: So why did you guys not immediately go out to 102 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: the market and see what you could negotiate to be 103 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: able to announce in December twenty twenty four. 104 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: Well, that's not the way. If I was in charge 105 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: of it, I'd have done anyway for a start, because 106 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: what are you going to do is find out from 107 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: all sorts is one of the best option, the best price, 108 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: for the greatest of level of efficiency and the greatest 109 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: level of longevity. But I was hearing so much going on. 110 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: They were talking about the current fairies being one out 111 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: of time, that they've expired the US day by their 112 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: use by data it expired. All that was total nonsense. 113 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: Their use day by data is way beyond twenty twenty nine. 114 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 2: It's a question of proper maintenance. 115 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: All right. Now, what's the break fee that we're going 116 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: to pay the South Koreans. 117 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: The break fee. Yeah, well that's in commercial and it's confidential. 118 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: It's it's confidential. 119 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: Why is it confidential? 120 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 2: For a whole lot of reasons why it's confident? And 121 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: Minister Nicholas told you all that, but give me one. 122 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: Give you what, give me a reason why it's confidential? 123 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: Well, do you know something about simple commercial practice? Feel 124 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: about business and ethics? Do you know anything about commercial practice? 125 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: That's why it's confidential. 126 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: You have a deal, you break the deal, they will 127 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: have written in the contract if you break the deal, 128 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: this is how much you pay. So how much do 129 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: we pay? 130 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: Which law school do you go to? 131 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: You don't have to go to a law school. Contract lawyers. 132 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: Dore's nothing about business. 133 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: This lawyer can't even give me a reason why it's confidential. 134 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: You're never going to get an answer to Please go 135 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: back to something that. 136 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: Makes I don't accept that, Winston. I don't think that's 137 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: good enough. I just think you guys don't want to 138 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: tell us. This is embarrassing to you how much you're 139 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: having to pay, and you should tell us because it's 140 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: our money. 141 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: This is embarrassing for the country. You're quite right. It's 142 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 2: massively embarrassing that they went out there. The labor government 143 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: blew the whole thing out, tossing money around like eight 144 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: armed octopus. That done boats were only twenty percent of 145 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 2: the cost. The other eighty percent infrastructure about which they 146 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: told wrong. 147 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: I don't thank you. Guys are embarrassed. I think you're 148 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: in a position to be throwing stones at the moment. 149 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: I mean you went and canceled the contract. 150 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 2: Yes I am, Oh, yes I am, because I'm the 151 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: guy that sent them out book they find two boats 152 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: for four hundred one minute. 153 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: Winston coming from nobody else. You're the guy who starts 154 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: the deal. Then you end up with a new government 155 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: canceling the deal and trying to fix the deal in 156 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: A year later, we still didn't have an announcement. 157 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 2: So it's right, it's out the pardon between I'm the 158 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 2: guy that started the deal. Yes, but they didn't do 159 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: the deal that I askedn't do. They end up in 160 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one buying these two fairies with enormous costs 161 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 2: of infrastructure heading towards four billion dollars according to Treasury 162 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: and rising. And you're telling me it's embarrassing. Of course, 163 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 2: it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing to all of us. But I'm 164 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: here to fix it, and I'm going to fix it. 165 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: You're usually the guy who battles for the for the 166 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: little guy, and you're you're you're the guy who always 167 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: tells us when need transparency. So where's the transparency on this? Then? 168 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: Oh, it'll be out there like as clear as daylight 169 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: britten in the stars. When I get the solutions out there, 170 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: You'll know all the facts. You'll know everything about the 171 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: nuts because it's not a negative story that you are 172 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: on the program. 173 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: Now, when David Seymour said it's going to be roughly 174 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: the cost of the I rex, are we talking about 175 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: the I rex at four billion or three billion? Which 176 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: means that you guys are going to run up a 177 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: bill of one and a half to two billion. 178 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: I've got no idea why he made that comment, because 179 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: now that's true. 180 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: Well, he's sitting around the cabinet table, so he knows 181 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: what's going on. 182 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: Isn't he what you asked him? May I made because 183 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: on last night I saw him on TV denying it. 184 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: He used the word he said, he said, he used 185 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: the word approximately and approximately could mean a huge approximation 186 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: that was different from what he said. You know, that's 187 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: why trying to put you on the program. Asks me 188 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: about it. 189 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: Now, Hey, listen, have you guys even factored in how 190 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: much you could because the vast majority of the cost 191 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: of this thing is going to be the port upgrades? 192 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: How much is that can cost? 193 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: Us? Well? Who said that was true? 194 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: You said that was true. I mean the fairies were 195 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: five hundred and fifty milis thought that was great. They're 196 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: going to be about two point five Bill Heather. 197 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: Heather, Yeah, hush us for a second. That's what the 198 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: program that I inherited looked like. Yes, where the costs 199 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: were eighty percent of were on the infrastruction. 200 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: That's what I'm quoting back to you. 201 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: I've never you know, I've never seen so much rudeness, 202 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: so much to want to explain to you a critical 203 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: issue costs so much of the taxpayer, and you're interrupting. 204 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: Here's my point, it'll cost way way less than that 205 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: on that on which I'm certain based on what were 206 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 2: based on simple experience. 207 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: No that That's all I'm asking you is how much 208 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: is it? Because we still have to do the port 209 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: upgrades right because they are dilapidated. 210 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: So how much A no, no again again again, that's 211 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 2: not true. I mean you've got all sorts of people 212 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: out thinking, well, here's my chance now to milk the 213 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: tax path for all I can. I know you don't. 214 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: Our job is to be responsible with the taxpayer's money 215 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 2: as we are about our own. And that's what we're 216 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 2: going to do. 217 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: Okay, Winston. When do we get the final decision from 218 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: you guys? As second half of next Year's. 219 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: Just as soon as we can responsibly make it okay. 220 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for your time and best of love. 221 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 2: You hang on you hang on here. That helps on 222 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: its way. 223 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: Geez, I feel like I'm waiting a long time for 224 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: that help, Winston, thanks so much, look after yourself. Enjoy 225 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: your day, Winston, Peter's new rail minister. I just still 226 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: don't know what they've been doing for a year. For 227 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. 228 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast 229 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.