1 00:00:06,707 --> 00:00:10,587 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,747 --> 00:00:12,067 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZB. 3 00:00:12,867 --> 00:00:14,507 Speaker 2: Every month or so, we get the benefit of the 4 00:00:14,547 --> 00:00:17,787 Speaker 2: wisdom of coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith, who has shaped the 5 00:00:17,827 --> 00:00:20,027 Speaker 2: thinking of coaches around the world from elite through to 6 00:00:20,067 --> 00:00:23,107 Speaker 2: grass roots. And with Scott Robertson set to name his 7 00:00:23,107 --> 00:00:25,387 Speaker 2: first all black squad tomorrow, I wanted to get Wayne's 8 00:00:25,467 --> 00:00:28,467 Speaker 2: views on the concept of a new coach taking on 9 00:00:28,707 --> 00:00:31,707 Speaker 2: an established team. How should they approach that, should they 10 00:00:31,747 --> 00:00:34,667 Speaker 2: bring their own ideas but also go with what's been 11 00:00:34,707 --> 00:00:37,387 Speaker 2: working under the previous coach and what is the best 12 00:00:37,427 --> 00:00:40,867 Speaker 2: balance to strike Wayne Goldsmith as well as Wayne, when 13 00:00:40,947 --> 00:00:43,747 Speaker 2: I asked you about this topic, you sent back three 14 00:00:44,107 --> 00:00:46,907 Speaker 2: possible approaches for us to examine one by one. So 15 00:00:47,027 --> 00:00:51,187 Speaker 2: let's go through those. The first is complete change, out 16 00:00:51,187 --> 00:00:53,267 Speaker 2: with the old and within you if you like, what 17 00:00:53,347 --> 00:00:55,987 Speaker 2: are the pros and cons of complete change? 18 00:00:56,267 --> 00:01:01,347 Speaker 3: First of all, the tim pat is, particularly if you're 19 00:01:01,347 --> 00:01:04,347 Speaker 3: an inexperienced coach, is to say, I want to make 20 00:01:04,387 --> 00:01:06,667 Speaker 3: this my team, right here, right now. 21 00:01:06,707 --> 00:01:09,547 Speaker 4: I want to impress the fans, I want to make 22 00:01:09,587 --> 00:01:11,547 Speaker 4: a big impact on this place. I want to make 23 00:01:11,587 --> 00:01:16,747 Speaker 4: a revolutionary change and anything that's currently there is wrong 24 00:01:16,827 --> 00:01:20,467 Speaker 4: and it has to go. Now. You could argue, all right, well, 25 00:01:20,507 --> 00:01:23,587 Speaker 4: there's a great line, which is start the way you 26 00:01:23,667 --> 00:01:25,867 Speaker 4: want to finish. Start the way you want to finish, 27 00:01:25,907 --> 00:01:30,067 Speaker 4: which says, if I'm all about a philosophy of or 28 00:01:30,107 --> 00:01:34,947 Speaker 4: if I'm about a philosophy of player unity, then you 29 00:01:34,987 --> 00:01:37,427 Speaker 4: don't build that over a year or two years. You say, 30 00:01:37,667 --> 00:01:41,147 Speaker 4: first session, first moment, we live our values, or we 31 00:01:41,227 --> 00:01:43,907 Speaker 4: live what we believe in. I can see the advantage 32 00:01:43,947 --> 00:01:48,147 Speaker 4: to that. However, I always say to caches, remember we 33 00:01:48,347 --> 00:01:51,747 Speaker 4: stand on the shoulders of giants and the people who've 34 00:01:51,747 --> 00:01:54,947 Speaker 4: built this team in this culture, which is sustained for 35 00:01:54,987 --> 00:01:57,707 Speaker 4: one hundred years. We've got at an eighty five to 36 00:01:57,787 --> 00:02:00,867 Speaker 4: ninety percent winning record or something like that. The things 37 00:02:00,867 --> 00:02:03,667 Speaker 4: that have built the team to be the icon and 38 00:02:03,707 --> 00:02:06,947 Speaker 4: the great team that it is. Not everything's out about that, 39 00:02:07,067 --> 00:02:09,267 Speaker 4: not anything's wrong. I think a lot of young coaches 40 00:02:09,307 --> 00:02:12,507 Speaker 4: come in and assume that anyone with gray hair doesn't 41 00:02:12,507 --> 00:02:15,507 Speaker 4: know what they're doing, and anything that is before the 42 00:02:15,587 --> 00:02:19,467 Speaker 4: year of Google is wrong. So I think the smart 43 00:02:19,547 --> 00:02:22,827 Speaker 4: coaches take a breath and say, yes, I want revolution, 44 00:02:23,587 --> 00:02:29,067 Speaker 4: but ultimately make it more like evolution, systematic, slow, methodical, 45 00:02:29,507 --> 00:02:30,267 Speaker 4: and permanent. 46 00:02:30,747 --> 00:02:33,827 Speaker 2: So that leads into the second possible approach you've seen, 47 00:02:33,867 --> 00:02:37,147 Speaker 2: which is partial change. You're bringing a few trusted staff 48 00:02:37,187 --> 00:02:41,187 Speaker 2: members and make some subtle but important changes. So might 49 00:02:41,227 --> 00:02:44,627 Speaker 2: that work better for Razor with an established and as 50 00:02:44,627 --> 00:02:47,667 Speaker 2: you've brought it out, historically successful team. 51 00:02:48,507 --> 00:02:52,067 Speaker 4: This one gets really complicated, Pini, because so if you're 52 00:02:52,507 --> 00:02:55,627 Speaker 4: in an AFL team, super Ragby team, if you're in 53 00:02:55,627 --> 00:02:58,227 Speaker 4: an NRL team and you're come in and you say, man, 54 00:02:58,547 --> 00:03:01,907 Speaker 4: I want to change this. We could be remarkable. If 55 00:03:01,947 --> 00:03:04,787 Speaker 4: I can get this happening, and this happening, we could 56 00:03:04,787 --> 00:03:07,587 Speaker 4: do some really amazing things. So you go to the 57 00:03:07,587 --> 00:03:09,147 Speaker 4: CEO and say, look, I want to get rid of 58 00:03:09,147 --> 00:03:11,787 Speaker 4: these six players, these members of staff. I know that, 59 00:03:12,187 --> 00:03:14,867 Speaker 4: and the CEO is they're all under contract for another 60 00:03:14,867 --> 00:03:18,227 Speaker 4: two years. To make the changes you want to change, 61 00:03:18,787 --> 00:03:20,547 Speaker 4: and the changes you want to make right here and 62 00:03:20,627 --> 00:03:22,667 Speaker 4: right now, it's going to cost us five million dollars, 63 00:03:22,707 --> 00:03:25,907 Speaker 4: So we're not going to do it. So sometimes these 64 00:03:26,067 --> 00:03:31,227 Speaker 4: other forces other than just performance or or values or 65 00:03:31,507 --> 00:03:34,587 Speaker 4: team goals. Sometimes you're going to consider where are we 66 00:03:35,027 --> 00:03:37,587 Speaker 4: in terms of the contract cycle, and it's going to 67 00:03:37,667 --> 00:03:40,027 Speaker 4: take two or three years for me to build the 68 00:03:40,147 --> 00:03:44,347 Speaker 4: team that I'm really looking for. Very very typically coaches 69 00:03:44,387 --> 00:03:47,027 Speaker 4: will come in. No matter how good you are, you 70 00:03:47,067 --> 00:03:49,747 Speaker 4: can't do it by yourself. So very typically a coach 71 00:03:49,787 --> 00:03:52,867 Speaker 4: will come in and go, What I really need is 72 00:03:52,947 --> 00:03:57,467 Speaker 4: two or three trusted lieutenants who know my philosophies, who 73 00:03:57,507 --> 00:03:59,747 Speaker 4: know what I'm on about, who know what I'm trying 74 00:03:59,747 --> 00:04:02,627 Speaker 4: to achieve, and they can be an extension of my 75 00:04:02,707 --> 00:04:07,867 Speaker 4: philosophies as I build those longer term changes. Inevitably, I 76 00:04:07,907 --> 00:04:13,627 Speaker 4: think this second option, the systemic slow gradual change, is 77 00:04:13,787 --> 00:04:18,387 Speaker 4: forced on professional coaches, particularly owing to contractual obligations. 78 00:04:18,467 --> 00:04:20,227 Speaker 2: All right, we'll get to the third approach in a moment. 79 00:04:20,267 --> 00:04:23,467 Speaker 2: But regardless of what you approach, a new coach takes. 80 00:04:23,507 --> 00:04:26,427 Speaker 2: How important does it weanne for that coach to get 81 00:04:26,467 --> 00:04:29,987 Speaker 2: the key players in the squad, the captain for example, 82 00:04:30,027 --> 00:04:32,827 Speaker 2: the experienced ones, the ones that drive the culture. How 83 00:04:32,867 --> 00:04:35,747 Speaker 2: important is it for the coach, the incoming new coach 84 00:04:36,107 --> 00:04:37,907 Speaker 2: to get key players on side. 85 00:04:38,907 --> 00:04:41,907 Speaker 4: Yeah? Really important. That's the first discussion you would normally 86 00:04:41,947 --> 00:04:44,667 Speaker 4: have is to sit down with the team leader and 87 00:04:44,827 --> 00:04:47,707 Speaker 4: talk to them about their game, what they had to 88 00:04:47,747 --> 00:04:50,507 Speaker 4: achieve and then start to spread what we call that 89 00:04:50,627 --> 00:04:53,867 Speaker 4: idea of the vision. And you know, I love talking 90 00:04:53,867 --> 00:04:56,827 Speaker 4: about this by any because they call a vision a 91 00:04:56,947 --> 00:05:00,467 Speaker 4: vision because you can see it. And the great coaches 92 00:05:00,947 --> 00:05:04,107 Speaker 4: will walk into a program and go, I can see 93 00:05:04,227 --> 00:05:07,987 Speaker 4: this all black team, this rugby team, this AFL team, 94 00:05:07,987 --> 00:05:10,827 Speaker 4: this netball team, this freak team. I can see them 95 00:05:11,267 --> 00:05:14,667 Speaker 4: at the next World Championships. I can see them undefeated 96 00:05:14,867 --> 00:05:17,867 Speaker 4: for the last thirty games. I see us winning to 97 00:05:17,987 --> 00:05:21,187 Speaker 4: a power game or a speed game, or a skill game, 98 00:05:21,267 --> 00:05:24,027 Speaker 4: or all those things. The job then to the coach 99 00:05:24,347 --> 00:05:27,227 Speaker 4: is to look at that team leader or team leaders 100 00:05:27,987 --> 00:05:31,307 Speaker 4: and get them to see the same vision with the 101 00:05:31,347 --> 00:05:33,987 Speaker 4: same detail and clarity that they do, because you know, 102 00:05:34,387 --> 00:05:38,787 Speaker 4: ultimately we're a species of storytellers, and the coaches who've 103 00:05:38,827 --> 00:05:42,027 Speaker 4: got a clear vision and can tell the story of 104 00:05:42,107 --> 00:05:45,707 Speaker 4: their future so that the players go, you know, well, 105 00:05:45,707 --> 00:05:48,707 Speaker 4: I can see that too. That's what we could get 106 00:05:48,747 --> 00:05:52,147 Speaker 4: a coach. I get a coach. That's an incredibly important 107 00:05:52,187 --> 00:05:54,987 Speaker 4: thing is to sit down with those leaders and say, 108 00:05:55,107 --> 00:05:57,867 Speaker 4: I see a vision of what we could all achieve 109 00:05:57,947 --> 00:06:01,707 Speaker 4: together and sell that vision through the player groups so 110 00:06:01,867 --> 00:06:05,147 Speaker 4: they then carry that forward and help the rest of 111 00:06:05,187 --> 00:06:06,987 Speaker 4: the team to then buy into the same vision. 112 00:06:07,587 --> 00:06:11,347 Speaker 2: So there's complete change, there's partial change, and the third 113 00:06:11,547 --> 00:06:14,787 Speaker 2: option has not much change. But having a long term 114 00:06:14,867 --> 00:06:19,147 Speaker 2: plan to progressively turn the team into your team. Is 115 00:06:19,187 --> 00:06:21,667 Speaker 2: there any danger, though, Wayne, of a new coach coming 116 00:06:21,667 --> 00:06:24,707 Speaker 2: in and then not actually changing or doing a heck 117 00:06:24,747 --> 00:06:25,187 Speaker 2: of a lot. 118 00:06:26,707 --> 00:06:29,467 Speaker 4: A lot of times coaches will come in and this 119 00:06:29,547 --> 00:06:31,787 Speaker 4: comes from the corporate world. In the corporate world, I'll say, 120 00:06:31,947 --> 00:06:34,587 Speaker 4: what are you in the first hundred days? Nothing? Just listen. 121 00:06:35,307 --> 00:06:38,107 Speaker 4: And I don't know that it is going to apply 122 00:06:38,267 --> 00:06:41,587 Speaker 4: in high performance sport because you know, it's like the 123 00:06:41,747 --> 00:06:45,027 Speaker 4: media scrutiny, particularly on your team and the All Blacks 124 00:06:45,427 --> 00:06:48,867 Speaker 4: is going to be unbelievable. Anything less than an incredibly 125 00:06:48,907 --> 00:06:52,587 Speaker 4: strong performance and a forty point win is not going 126 00:06:52,627 --> 00:06:55,067 Speaker 4: to satisfy the media. And to be questions about treading, 127 00:06:55,107 --> 00:06:57,627 Speaker 4: you know, you know exactly what is likely to come. 128 00:06:58,067 --> 00:07:01,467 Speaker 4: So it's very very tempting to do what we call 129 00:07:01,587 --> 00:07:05,787 Speaker 4: ROTV runs on the board. It's very tempting to throw 130 00:07:05,947 --> 00:07:10,427 Speaker 4: every you've got in doing something different and special or 131 00:07:10,547 --> 00:07:13,307 Speaker 4: unique to kick off. Some people go oho, these guys 132 00:07:13,347 --> 00:07:15,427 Speaker 4: really do have some changes, They do have a vision, 133 00:07:15,947 --> 00:07:19,427 Speaker 4: they do have a plan in mind. Standing back and 134 00:07:19,507 --> 00:07:21,947 Speaker 4: just watching and listening for the first hundred days might 135 00:07:21,987 --> 00:07:25,387 Speaker 4: work in an office environment, it doesn't really work in 136 00:07:25,467 --> 00:07:28,187 Speaker 4: high performance. The other thing with not making a lot 137 00:07:28,187 --> 00:07:35,507 Speaker 4: of change is that boards and executives are notoriously lacking impatience. 138 00:07:36,027 --> 00:07:39,187 Speaker 4: If they don't see some genuine change and some real 139 00:07:39,347 --> 00:07:42,427 Speaker 4: impact in the short period of time, they're not going 140 00:07:42,467 --> 00:07:43,867 Speaker 4: to give you a long term I mean, I was 141 00:07:43,907 --> 00:07:47,147 Speaker 4: talking to an NRL coach a few weeks ago and 142 00:07:47,187 --> 00:07:48,747 Speaker 4: he said to me, he said, you know what, if 143 00:07:48,747 --> 00:07:52,547 Speaker 4: you had five years where you were confident you've retain 144 00:07:52,627 --> 00:07:55,907 Speaker 4: your job, you could probably build a pretty good winning team. 145 00:07:56,147 --> 00:07:59,547 Speaker 4: But you don't get five years. You basically get one 146 00:07:59,627 --> 00:08:03,587 Speaker 4: season and about ten games before they've made them mind 147 00:08:03,667 --> 00:08:05,907 Speaker 4: up on how you're going to go and whether or 148 00:08:05,947 --> 00:08:09,347 Speaker 4: not you're right coach. So even though you've got an 149 00:08:09,507 --> 00:08:13,067 Speaker 4: underpinning model that you'd like to build for sustained success, 150 00:08:13,507 --> 00:08:16,147 Speaker 4: the reality of professional sport is you've got to win 151 00:08:16,507 --> 00:08:19,107 Speaker 4: in the short term to get that confidence in buy 152 00:08:19,147 --> 00:08:21,907 Speaker 4: in that you know what you're doing. And I think 153 00:08:21,947 --> 00:08:24,427 Speaker 4: the smart coaches again, they do things like that Pinty, 154 00:08:24,467 --> 00:08:27,547 Speaker 4: They go, I'll get a really good development team over here. 155 00:08:28,147 --> 00:08:30,867 Speaker 4: I have a good junior development program over here working 156 00:08:30,867 --> 00:08:33,067 Speaker 4: away behind the scenes, but I'm going to get some 157 00:08:33,147 --> 00:08:36,067 Speaker 4: runs on the board early to get some immediate buy 158 00:08:36,107 --> 00:08:37,907 Speaker 4: in from the people I met up or I won't 159 00:08:37,947 --> 00:08:40,267 Speaker 4: get the opportunity to do it long term. 160 00:08:40,307 --> 00:08:41,787 Speaker 2: All right, And you talk about getting those runs on 161 00:08:41,827 --> 00:08:43,707 Speaker 2: the board or getting the buy in from, you know, 162 00:08:43,707 --> 00:08:46,907 Speaker 2: from the corporates, the administrators, those that are doing the 163 00:08:47,027 --> 00:08:49,147 Speaker 2: hiring and firing. But what about the fans as well? 164 00:08:49,187 --> 00:08:51,867 Speaker 2: How key is it to get the fans on side 165 00:08:51,947 --> 00:08:53,827 Speaker 2: quickly and what is the best way of doing that. 166 00:08:55,147 --> 00:08:57,507 Speaker 4: The way to get fans on board is to win. 167 00:08:58,627 --> 00:09:01,467 Speaker 4: If they come in and on the first game, you know, 168 00:09:01,507 --> 00:09:05,107 Speaker 4: again talking specifically about the All Blacks, if there's been 169 00:09:05,187 --> 00:09:09,307 Speaker 4: multiple changes, they're playing a great game, if they're really 170 00:09:09,347 --> 00:09:12,507 Speaker 4: aggressive and attack, if their defense is strong, even if 171 00:09:12,547 --> 00:09:15,587 Speaker 4: the performance is not quite there, the fans go, you 172 00:09:15,627 --> 00:09:18,467 Speaker 4: know what, we're on the right track. If they see 173 00:09:18,907 --> 00:09:22,867 Speaker 4: something that's completely opposite to what they're going to expect, 174 00:09:23,507 --> 00:09:25,547 Speaker 4: then they just have a few question marks. I think 175 00:09:25,587 --> 00:09:29,027 Speaker 4: they'll buy him progressively. But nothing gets a fan to 176 00:09:29,067 --> 00:09:32,187 Speaker 4: buy in more than winning. And how many times have 177 00:09:32,227 --> 00:09:35,227 Speaker 4: we seen in the last two or three years, particularly 178 00:09:35,227 --> 00:09:38,427 Speaker 4: in the NRL, is probably the cauldron for that at 179 00:09:38,427 --> 00:09:41,227 Speaker 4: the moment, is that coaches are caught off and one 180 00:09:41,267 --> 00:09:45,867 Speaker 4: win or two wins away from complete board player and 181 00:09:45,947 --> 00:09:48,467 Speaker 4: fan buy in. I think the best example I can 182 00:09:48,507 --> 00:09:51,867 Speaker 4: think of was Newcastle last year when Newcastle were going 183 00:09:51,947 --> 00:09:55,947 Speaker 4: terribly and the coach was quite literally from all reports, 184 00:09:56,467 --> 00:10:00,027 Speaker 4: one loss away from no job. And then they turn 185 00:10:00,067 --> 00:10:02,707 Speaker 4: it around and Ponger starts playing like an absolute legend 186 00:10:03,067 --> 00:10:05,187 Speaker 4: and they win a whole bunch on the tripe, they 187 00:10:05,227 --> 00:10:07,627 Speaker 4: make it to the Semis and the coach's job is saving. 188 00:10:07,707 --> 00:10:11,227 Speaker 4: He was one win or one loss away from losing 189 00:10:11,267 --> 00:10:14,307 Speaker 4: all support. And it can be that sickle. But you 190 00:10:14,347 --> 00:10:17,867 Speaker 4: know what, I think fans will buy in if they 191 00:10:17,907 --> 00:10:20,907 Speaker 4: can see some signs. The other thing is you've got 192 00:10:20,907 --> 00:10:23,827 Speaker 4: to get media onside. You've got to have a great 193 00:10:24,067 --> 00:10:27,627 Speaker 4: media person in the club and a great media team 194 00:10:28,187 --> 00:10:31,467 Speaker 4: that are making sure that the messages about the changes 195 00:10:31,507 --> 00:10:35,347 Speaker 4: you're making are being conveyed correctly and being put out 196 00:10:35,347 --> 00:10:38,467 Speaker 4: there in the media and social media, so that you're 197 00:10:38,547 --> 00:10:42,707 Speaker 4: controlling the narrative and the discussion to a degree about 198 00:10:42,787 --> 00:10:45,947 Speaker 4: why you're making the changes, what impact it's likely to take. 199 00:10:46,387 --> 00:10:48,227 Speaker 4: If it's going to take a bit of time, tell 200 00:10:48,267 --> 00:10:51,187 Speaker 4: all the fans and share the fans the vision and 201 00:10:51,227 --> 00:10:53,587 Speaker 4: the story that you've got so that they're aware of 202 00:10:53,587 --> 00:10:57,627 Speaker 4: their expectations that are aligned with yours. Keep them updated informed, 203 00:10:57,707 --> 00:11:00,107 Speaker 4: particularly in the euro social media right. 204 00:11:00,147 --> 00:11:02,667 Speaker 2: And it's a rare coach these days who has just 205 00:11:02,667 --> 00:11:06,067 Speaker 2: the one job, so across their career it's quite possible 206 00:11:06,067 --> 00:11:09,907 Speaker 2: they'll be going into a number of different environments as 207 00:11:09,947 --> 00:11:13,107 Speaker 2: a new coach. So does the same model, the three 208 00:11:13,307 --> 00:11:16,347 Speaker 2: approaches you've outlined, does the same one apply to every 209 00:11:16,427 --> 00:11:19,587 Speaker 2: situation a coach will find themselves or is it more 210 00:11:19,707 --> 00:11:23,147 Speaker 2: likely that they'll just you know, cut their cloth to suit. 211 00:11:22,987 --> 00:11:27,147 Speaker 4: If you like. Yeah, a smart coach comes in and 212 00:11:27,427 --> 00:11:30,307 Speaker 4: before they've even taken on the job, they've looked to 213 00:11:30,347 --> 00:11:33,027 Speaker 4: see what sort of approach they need to take and 214 00:11:33,067 --> 00:11:35,427 Speaker 4: what genuinely happens, Pinty. When you go for a job interview, 215 00:11:35,467 --> 00:11:37,187 Speaker 4: and I've been on some panels, I'm on another one 216 00:11:37,227 --> 00:11:40,827 Speaker 4: later this morning. When you're in a job panel for 217 00:11:41,067 --> 00:11:44,587 Speaker 4: interviewing a head coach, the most common thing they ask 218 00:11:44,667 --> 00:11:48,307 Speaker 4: a head coach to do is to present their vision 219 00:11:49,027 --> 00:11:52,147 Speaker 4: for the sustainable success of the club, put up on 220 00:11:52,187 --> 00:11:56,587 Speaker 4: the board, do a presentation, tell the interview committee what 221 00:11:56,747 --> 00:11:59,667 Speaker 4: it is you're going to do with this group. The problem, 222 00:11:59,747 --> 00:12:02,867 Speaker 4: I find point is quite often the panels that are 223 00:12:02,907 --> 00:12:06,107 Speaker 4: interviewing the head coaches, they're not really sure what they're 224 00:12:06,107 --> 00:12:08,667 Speaker 4: looking for, so they just go win loss record. They 225 00:12:08,707 --> 00:12:12,587 Speaker 4: look at a coach who's got sixty percent ideally have 226 00:12:12,707 --> 00:12:14,947 Speaker 4: a long period of time, which is pretty good. It's 227 00:12:14,987 --> 00:12:17,867 Speaker 4: a winning record win loss records. They gave for that, 228 00:12:17,987 --> 00:12:22,787 Speaker 4: rather than say, what sort of coach do we need now? So, 229 00:12:22,867 --> 00:12:25,987 Speaker 4: do we need a coach who's going to stabilize, make 230 00:12:26,067 --> 00:12:30,187 Speaker 4: things flow along nicely, and make systematic change because basically 231 00:12:30,187 --> 00:12:32,107 Speaker 4: we've got it right, We just need we've got to 232 00:12:32,107 --> 00:12:34,947 Speaker 4: coach you retired or a coach that's moved on for 233 00:12:34,987 --> 00:12:38,347 Speaker 4: some other reason. Do we need a revolutionary coach? Do 234 00:12:38,387 --> 00:12:40,747 Speaker 4: we need an absolute well, we used to say an 235 00:12:40,747 --> 00:12:43,707 Speaker 4: old times a head kicker. Do we not literally kick 236 00:12:43,707 --> 00:12:46,067 Speaker 4: anyone said, let's be clear on that. But do we 237 00:12:46,107 --> 00:12:50,187 Speaker 4: need somebody who's going to come in change everything, be 238 00:12:50,427 --> 00:12:53,907 Speaker 4: really strong and clear on their values and make widespread change. 239 00:12:54,147 --> 00:12:56,747 Speaker 4: I think one of the issues is that quite often 240 00:12:56,827 --> 00:13:00,787 Speaker 4: clubs executives and boards don't really know what they're looking for. 241 00:13:01,107 --> 00:13:04,707 Speaker 4: They just gave a win loss, Whereas I think coaches 242 00:13:05,227 --> 00:13:08,587 Speaker 4: will often look at it with this player group, with 243 00:13:08,747 --> 00:13:13,187 Speaker 4: this budget, with this board, with these facilities, with this structure. 244 00:13:13,747 --> 00:13:15,467 Speaker 4: What am I going to be able to do? How 245 00:13:15,507 --> 00:13:18,267 Speaker 4: do I approach this problem? How do I attack it? 246 00:13:19,107 --> 00:13:22,107 Speaker 2: Well? I guess we're about to find out Scott Robertson's 247 00:13:22,147 --> 00:13:25,907 Speaker 2: approach to the All Blacks head coaching job. We'll get 248 00:13:25,907 --> 00:13:28,307 Speaker 2: an idea of which of the approaches or a blend 249 00:13:28,307 --> 00:13:31,227 Speaker 2: of all three that he employs. Wayne is always so 250 00:13:31,747 --> 00:13:35,947 Speaker 2: informative to get your expertise and your analysis. As always, 251 00:13:35,987 --> 00:13:37,987 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us across New Zealand today. 252 00:13:38,227 --> 00:13:40,747 Speaker 4: Mate. I think your guys are so talented. I think 253 00:13:40,787 --> 00:13:43,187 Speaker 4: my grandmother could properly coach them. And I go pretty good. 254 00:13:43,267 --> 00:13:46,347 Speaker 4: This's got so much talent all over the park. But 255 00:13:47,307 --> 00:13:49,467 Speaker 4: it will be exciting and interesting to see what happens. 256 00:13:49,507 --> 00:13:51,987 Speaker 2: Good on you, Wayne, Thanks indeed, Wayne Goldsmith. Find out 257 00:13:52,067 --> 00:13:56,907 Speaker 2: more about his approach to coaching WG coaching dot com. 258 00:13:56,987 --> 00:14:00,147 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live 259 00:14:00,307 --> 00:14:03,627 Speaker 1: to news talks edb weekends from midday or follow the 260 00:14:03,707 --> 00:14:05,227 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio,