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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister, Christopher Luxin is with us back for

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five and has regular slot here on the

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Speaker 1: mic hosting breakfast Good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Ryan.

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Speaker 1: How are you very well? Thank you, Happy new Year

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Speaker 1: and all that stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's same to you.

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Speaker 3: How are you surviving with the big big job at

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Speaker 3: the moment?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm making away.

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Speaker 1: I make I make do man Hey, speaking of big jobs,

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Speaker 1: Nichola Willis has one What parameters have you set in

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Speaker 1: order for her to grow growth? Is everything on the

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Speaker 1: table for her?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Look, actually through the course of the back end of

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Speaker 3: last year and even even a bit earlier that there's

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Speaker 3: five things that we've got to do in our economic

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Speaker 3: growth plan. Obviously world class education. You know, we've got

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Speaker 3: to get quality infrastructure in place. We've got to get

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Speaker 3: have much more science, technology and innovation and R and D,

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Speaker 3: add value to products and services, get rid of red tape,

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Speaker 3: more competition, stronger international connections. So we've got the guts

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Speaker 3: of what we want to do and build out in

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Speaker 3: that economic plan. And what I really want is as

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Speaker 3: a minister to lead and to drive that agenda through

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Speaker 3: across all the ministries. And so Nikola will have two

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Speaker 3: parts the job. Continue to sort out our finances, make

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Speaker 3: sure that the budget is working, but then really get

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Speaker 3: into the exciting work of actually, how do we lay

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Speaker 3: down the big foundations that we ultimately know will lead

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Speaker 3: to New Zealand becoming a much richer place.

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Speaker 2: And when that happens, that's.

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Speaker 3: How people get a better quality of life, that's how

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Speaker 3: we get better public services. So you know, the real

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Speaker 3: focus is to on this year is it's about Job

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Speaker 3: Number one is growth, growth, growth, and that's important.

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Speaker 1: That's the visions, that's the vision, right, that's the goals.

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Speaker 1: So the question is how do we get there. We've

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Speaker 1: got billions tied up and underperforming crown assets in New

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Speaker 1: Zealand on the balance sheet. Why do we have them?

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Speaker 1: And will you sell them down? Can she start selling

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Speaker 1: them down?

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Speaker 3: Where we've committed not to progress any asset sales or

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Speaker 3: what's called asset recycling this term, But what I would

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Speaker 3: say is there a bigger you know, what we've really

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Speaker 3: got to do is attract investment to New Zealand. A

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Speaker 3: big part of that is what I've been doing when

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Speaker 3: we've been offshore overseas for examples in the UAE just

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Speaker 3: last week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but why won't we recycle assets? Why won't we

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Speaker 1: recycle assets? The crown has five hundred and seventy billion

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Speaker 1: dollars worth. I mean, why do we own stuff that's

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Speaker 1: underperforming that we could have the private sector doing well.

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Speaker 3: As I said to you, we've made a commitment of

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Speaker 3: this term. That's not something that we're looking at next time.

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Speaker 3: A lot of things that we well, again made the

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Speaker 3: commitment for this term. But what we are looking at

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Speaker 3: is that when you go around the world and you

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Speaker 3: look at other advanced five million people countries on Earth,

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Speaker 3: and you ask the question, why are they fundamentally wealthier

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Speaker 3: than New Zealand why for thirty years have we not

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Speaker 3: been able, despite how hard everyone is working, not be

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Speaker 3: able to get ahead and to create a much.

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Speaker 2: Wealthier, richer place.

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Speaker 3: It gets back to some pretty basic things, and that's

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Speaker 3: what we've got to drive those microeconomic policies that actually,

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Speaker 3: you know, like for example, science, technology innovation. We spend

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Speaker 3: quite a bit of money on it, you know, enough

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Speaker 3: money on it. But the question is we come up

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Speaker 3: with great innovations, but we're not actually commercializing them and

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Speaker 3: then building out the big.

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Speaker 1: Well, we saw that employment for people, we saw that

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Speaker 1: this week with Abco. This is the e buying manufacturer

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Speaker 1: in total. Now have you read about that? So we're

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Speaker 1: on the hook for four hundred dollars and dollars the

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Speaker 1: taxpayers through the Callahan Innovation Fund. Company goes into receivership

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Speaker 1: and we left heindre. I mean we are we making

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Speaker 1: solid investments there.

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Speaker 3: Well again, you know that'll be a question for the

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Speaker 3: Science and Technology Minister to have a review of. But

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Speaker 3: the bigger point is there will be moments when we

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Speaker 3: make an investment to facilitate or to catalyze an idea

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Speaker 3: to become a reality and the hope that it creates

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Speaker 3: a moightness that creates employment and opportunity. Some of that

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Speaker 3: will go right, some of that won't go right.

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Speaker 1: Just to square this off, the asset sales thing, you're

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Speaker 1: not doing it this year this term, but next term

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Speaker 1: you will be open I mean, I mean selling off

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Speaker 1: Land Corp for example, that all of that stuff would

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Speaker 1: be on the table for next term.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, our commitment is that we're not going to do

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Speaker 3: asset sales with two years ago for the rest of

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Speaker 3: the term expires. But you know, the bigger issue is

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Speaker 3: about how do we get pools of capital, both domestic

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Speaker 3: pools of capital in New Zealand and international pools into

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Speaker 3: this country for investments so that we can grow the joint.

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Speaker 1: We had them on yesterday and they said they want

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Speaker 1: accelerated One of the biggest things you could do right

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Speaker 1: now to increase investment, to increase productivity, to increase wages.

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Speaker 1: All things we will want is do the accelerated depreciation

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Speaker 1: on their buying their manufacturing technology.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Look, I understand the principle, which is to incentivize particularly

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Speaker 3: small medium enterprises to brace and invest in more technology

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Speaker 3: automation to make their business more efficient so they can

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Speaker 3: actually be more productive.

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Speaker 2: Is actually all good stuff.

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Speaker 1: Will you help them?

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Speaker 2: Again?

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Speaker 3: We'll have more to say about what our plans are

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Speaker 3: as we go through the course of the year. Obviously

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Speaker 3: we've got a budget. That's the point where we'd be

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Speaker 3: looking at. You'll see very clearly those ideas come to life.

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Speaker 1: But so are you looking at are you looking at

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Speaker 1: that as part of the budget process.

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Speaker 3: Look, I'm not going to get into what we are

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Speaker 3: are not looking into f waight to the budget. But

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Speaker 3: the point is we are very open and we'll do

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Speaker 3: any everything to make sure we get the country growing

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Speaker 3: and we have it, you know, Ryan, if you just

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Speaker 3: zoom out, I mean for thirty years we've actually under

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Speaker 3: successive governments, we actually haven't been able to sold that

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Speaker 3: productivity problem. People work hard in New Zealand relative to

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Speaker 3: peers around the world. We suck at it, but we're

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Speaker 3: not adding enough value to the products and services that

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Speaker 3: we're created.

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Speaker 1: So hopefully getting come budgetaches and come come budget time

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Speaker 1: when you do the accelerated depreciation, and then businesses is

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Speaker 1: about to just zoom forward with that. Hey on, Just generally,

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Speaker 1: this is a point about the budget in relation to

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Speaker 1: the budget. The AMA said on the show yesterday that

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Speaker 1: you are prioritizing the surplus overgrowth. You know, you could

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Speaker 1: do stuff like this depreciation, but it would hurt your

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Speaker 1: bottom line and would push the surplus forecast out further.

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Speaker 1: You know, you look at Spain, They've got public dead

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Speaker 1: over one hundred percent, their GDP three and a half percent.

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Speaker 1: They're leading the world at the moment, leaving the EU

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Speaker 1: at the moment. Are you looking, I mean, are you

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Speaker 1: prioritizing one over the other unnecessarily?

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Speaker 3: No, we've got the balance right, you know, we are not.

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Speaker 3: We haven't you know, we're not driving the country into

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Speaker 3: hard or sterea. That's just not the way forward. Equally,

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Speaker 3: carrying on the way that the previous administration was around

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Speaker 3: tax spin, borrow or that doesn't work either. And I

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Speaker 3: think you've seen US at S be very measured and

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Speaker 3: very balanced through the course of this first year, which

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Speaker 3: was let's get people tax relief, Let's get more efficiency

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Speaker 3: and stop the wasteful spending. Let's actually make sure we

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Speaker 3: lay down the conditions for growth, and we think about

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Speaker 3: if you think about infrastructure investment that we've got to do,

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Speaker 3: if we want to get that done, we're going to

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Speaker 3: have to pull that forward. That means that we're going

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Speaker 3: to have to have access to public private partnerships, use

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Speaker 3: of foreign capital, domestic capital to invest in getting our

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Speaker 3: roads built Quaker at our schools, belt, Quaker area, hospitals

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Speaker 3: built Quaker. There's a whole bunch of things we're going

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Speaker 3: to have to do differently in order to get that

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Speaker 3: infrastructure in place. When we get the infrastructure in place,

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Speaker 3: that's got massive economic, social, and arguably environmental benefits. So

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Speaker 3: you know, those are the sorts of there's a lot

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Speaker 3: in that agenda of we have to be so much

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Speaker 3: more focused on driving growth into New Zealand totally. We've

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Speaker 3: got to get out of recession, which we've been in

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Speaker 3: for the last three years, and actually get ourselves on

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Speaker 3: a pathway to steady growth. And we have to improve

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Speaker 3: what's called economic productivity. That's the core fundamental challenge and

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Speaker 3: has been for long.

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Speaker 1: So Sale, I want to get to Trump in just

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Speaker 1: a second. So this is a quick one for your

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Speaker 1: sale GP. Any appetite from the government from taxpayers to

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Speaker 1: fund any future events.

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Speaker 3: Again, we'll look into that again. You've got to get

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Speaker 3: a return for that. And frankly, with the state of

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Speaker 3: our books, the question is is that's a high bar

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Speaker 3: doing something.

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Speaker 2: It's a high bar, all right.

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Speaker 1: And Wayne Brunt he wants a visitor levy a bed

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Speaker 1: tax to try and pay for it himself. Will you

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Speaker 1: let him do that?

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Speaker 2: Again?

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Speaker 3: I think what New Zealanders want is they want us

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Speaker 3: focused on making sure that we can they can get ahead.

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Speaker 2: And I just I'm sure that adding new taxes at

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Speaker 2: this point is the right way. Not a priority. We

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Speaker 2: will not a priority, all right?

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Speaker 1: Cool Trump and trade. Seymour wants an FTA with Trump.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's dreaming isn't he.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I spoke to President Trump. He actually called me.

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Speaker 3: We had had a good fifteen to twenty minute conversation

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Speaker 3: pretty soon after he was elected. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're going to make that relationship work really well. It's

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Speaker 3: really important for New Zealand. We haven't had an.

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Speaker 2: FTA with US. With the US, Australia does.

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Speaker 3: But what's been interested Ryan is our trade and both

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Speaker 3: in goods and services, has been growing tremendously. I think

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Speaker 3: I think I looked at our services data last year

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Speaker 3: and I think we're up sort of thirty percent growth

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Speaker 3: with the US. Our primary goods exports, you know, are

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Speaker 3: finding good ways to get into a very large market

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Speaker 3: and finding the profitable niches, you know, in a big

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Speaker 3: market of three hundred and sixteen million people. So and

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Speaker 3: when I was in DC and back in July, I

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Speaker 3: went and spent a lot of time with both Democrats

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Speaker 3: and Republicans on both sides of the House around foreign

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Speaker 3: relations and trade, and it was interesting to me. They're very,

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Speaker 3: very supportive and very very open to doing business with

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Speaker 3: New Zealand. And so I think it's about relationships. I

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Speaker 3: think we need a lot bigger, deeper broader relationships across

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Speaker 3: the US political system, and a lot of it's about awareness.

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Speaker 3: You've got to understand, you America's a big country. When

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Speaker 3: I lived there for eight years, you know, I have

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Speaker 3: to think I used to spend a billion US dollars

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Speaker 3: a year just advertising Dove soap to Americans.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what it takes in a big.

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Speaker 3: Market like that to get a brand to cut through

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Speaker 3: with consumers. And so our new and exporters have been

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Speaker 3: doing a very very good job of targeting the consumers,

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Speaker 3: targeting the.

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Speaker 1: Ways and those products, and those exporters. Those exporters will

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Speaker 1: be sitting on tender hooks at the moment worried about

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Speaker 1: tariffs from Trump. What is the latest from our our

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Speaker 1: ambassador to the US, Rosemary Bank, What is the latest

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Speaker 1: advice you've had on one whether we'll get tariffs and

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Speaker 1: two whether we might get some exemption.

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Speaker 3: We really need to just let that administration get its

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Speaker 3: feet under the desk and actually see what happens, because

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Speaker 3: there's nothing more than what we've seen around the campaign

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Speaker 3: talk that everyone's seen around the world. But irrespective, it's

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Speaker 3: a relative game, right, so we still have to find

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Speaker 3: a way to win and actually do business in America.

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Speaker 3: So what we do in the UAE, as we do

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Speaker 3: in India, as we need to in China and as

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Speaker 3: Outheast Data.

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Speaker 1: Would if it's a negotiating tactic, would you ever throw

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Speaker 1: up and negotiate something like us joining Orcust Pillar two

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Speaker 1: if it gave us a concession on trade.

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Speaker 3: No, we will have a conversation about trade, around trade,

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Speaker 3: and then we'll talk about our own security and what

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Speaker 3: we think is right for the region and for ourselves.

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Speaker 1: From minutes to thank you very much for your time.

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Speaker 1: Christopher luxing with us here on the Mic Casting Breakfast.

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Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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