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Speaker 1: One hundred and forty nine projects have been picked for

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Speaker 1: fast tracking through the Fast Track Approvals Bills, Housing, energy,

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Speaker 1: major infrastructure projects take the priority. Eden Park two point

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Speaker 1: one is on the list as well. Infrastructure Minister Chris

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Speaker 1: Bishop reckons the bill will be passed by the end

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Speaker 1: of this year.

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Speaker 2: The expert panels will be set up early in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five and our expectation is that some of these

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Speaker 2: projects will be consented in a manner of that compares

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Speaker 2: to the status quo, which could be a matter of

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Speaker 2: years and years.

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Speaker 1: But the legislation and the list is still contentious. Infrastructure

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Speaker 1: New Zealand Boss Nick Leggett is a fan, but CEO

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Speaker 1: of the Environmental Defense Society Gary Taylor has some questions.

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Speaker 1: They are both with us this afternoon. Kioder, guys Neck,

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Speaker 1: We'll start with you, what do you think of the list?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's quite a balance, lush Jack, and

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Speaker 2: it really speaks to the need that this country has

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Speaker 2: to get its act together and build some infrastructure you

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Speaker 2: know that works both for land trands, support for alternative

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Speaker 2: energy and of course for housing and leland is hampered

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Speaker 2: with infrastructure. We're small, you know, we're a small market.

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Speaker 2: We're distant from other parts of the country, but we're

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Speaker 2: also very slow and we're not that great at making decisions,

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Speaker 2: and so we fall at the bottom of the world

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Speaker 2: where it comes to the efficiency that we get from

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Speaker 2: our infrastructure spend. That's because stuff gets delayed, things take

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Speaker 2: too long to consent and you know, frankly, we just

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Speaker 2: we lack the certainty in our market to be able

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Speaker 2: to get efficiency.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Gary, what do you think of the list specifically?

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Speaker 3: Well, I agree with Nick there's a lot of I mean,

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Speaker 3: we have a huge infrastructure deficit in this country. You know,

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Speaker 3: we need to spend another two hundred million dollars or

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Speaker 3: so to fix things, and that's obviously a priority, I think.

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Speaker 3: I think however, there is some so you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot that's on that list that I wouldn't quibble with,

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Speaker 3: but there are some that I.

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Speaker 1: Would, Right, What would you quibble with?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'd quibble with the inclusion of coal mines, for instance.

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Speaker 3: I think having trans Tasman resources on there is actually

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Speaker 3: a surprise because they want to use the same space

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Speaker 3: as off Taranaki, as the offshore wind guys want to use.

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Speaker 3: And I might have thought wind was a higher priority

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Speaker 3: in terms of infrastructure than you know, sand extraction. There's

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Speaker 3: also sort of zombie projects as they're called, which are

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Speaker 3: ones that have already been through a normal process and

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Speaker 3: being refused consent for good reasons. Was the keia Y

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Speaker 3: Matty waste to energy plant, which I think is very

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Speaker 3: controversial in terms of its potential for bad air emissions.

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Speaker 1: So those are all, I mean predominantly environmental concerns. How

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Speaker 1: do you respond to that? Are you concerned about those

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Speaker 1: environmental projects that might have negative environmental impacts?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think that everybody needs to be on watch

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Speaker 2: where it comes to environmental projects. Would say that we're

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Speaker 2: pretty pleased to see the quarries included, because we can't

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Speaker 2: build decent infrastructure projects without quarries, and we have a

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Speaker 2: problem in this country that quarries are becoming farther and

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Speaker 2: farther from cities, and of course that adds to not

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Speaker 2: only costs but also emissions to get aggregate to where

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Speaker 2: it needs to go to build. But look, I would

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Speaker 2: say there are protections here and that we would expect

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Speaker 2: that expert panels to put conditions on consents that address

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Speaker 2: environmental and social impacts during construction and for the eventual

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Speaker 2: operations of these projects infrastructure. New Zealand is primarily interested

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Speaker 2: in the building of decent infrastructure for KIWIS. Gary raises

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Speaker 2: our points, and other people who have opposed us raised

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Speaker 2: fair points. We've got to ensure that the right checks

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Speaker 2: and balances are in place. And I would say this

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Speaker 2: as well, Jack, that this is a stop gap until

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Speaker 2: we can get to that review of the RNA and

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Speaker 2: the venture replacement. And that's something that's really worth emphasizing.

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Speaker 2: But we can't afford to pause progress because the country's

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Speaker 2: social and economic and productivity future relies on us being

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Speaker 2: able to get some stuff done in the near to

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Speaker 2: medium term.

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Speaker 1: Let me turn that round then on Gary, just finally,

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Speaker 1: then what do you think about having this bill operating

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Speaker 1: in practice with that expert panel in place? What will

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Speaker 1: make it work better from your perspective?

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Speaker 3: I'd make three quick points. So the first is that

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Speaker 3: we already have fast trapped law in place. Over eighty

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Speaker 3: projects have been approved, including a lot of infrastructure projects,

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Speaker 3: an average time for decision making of eighty eight days.

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Speaker 3: The only difference with this point, which is my second one,

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Speaker 3: with this law is that it actually covers other legislation

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Speaker 3: as well as the ROMA, so the Conservation Act, the

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Speaker 3: Wildlife Act and so on, that arguably is a good thing,

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Speaker 3: I suppose, the one stop shop. But the third and

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Speaker 3: most important point, and here I do disagree with Nick,

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Speaker 3: is that there's an implicit heavy bias against the environment

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Speaker 3: and in favor of development the way that this bill

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Speaker 3: is drafted at present. And if you want to take

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Speaker 3: the kind of emotional pitch that you included in your

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Speaker 3: editorial at the start here, yes, it's really important that

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Speaker 3: we clean up the oil spill in Samoa, but it's

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Speaker 3: also really important that we look after our environment in

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Speaker 3: this country.

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Speaker 1: Hey, thank you both for your time. We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Gary Taylor and neck Le get there.

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Speaker 2: For more from Hither duplessy Ellen Drive.

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