1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:11,972 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B. 2 00:00:12,373 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:16,613 --> 00:00:20,093 Speaker 2: Ben O'Keefe is New Zealand's most experienced rugby union referee, 4 00:00:20,133 --> 00:00:23,093 Speaker 2: having officiated a record breaking two hundred and thirty four 5 00:00:23,133 --> 00:00:26,412 Speaker 2: first class games. He is yeah incredible record. He is 6 00:00:26,453 --> 00:00:29,252 Speaker 2: the first New Zealand official to referee fifty international Test 7 00:00:29,293 --> 00:00:32,132 Speaker 2: matches and is the only New Zealand referee to have 8 00:00:32,213 --> 00:00:35,133 Speaker 2: been in the middle for more than one hundred Super 9 00:00:35,213 --> 00:00:37,933 Speaker 2: Rugby games. And he joins us on the line. Now, Ben, 10 00:00:38,013 --> 00:00:38,572 Speaker 2: get out of you. 11 00:00:39,493 --> 00:00:41,812 Speaker 3: Goo guys, Hey, Matt, Hey Tyler, how are you very good? 12 00:00:41,853 --> 00:00:43,013 Speaker 4: Thanks for talking to us. You're a bit of a 13 00:00:43,013 --> 00:00:43,653 Speaker 4: heart throb as well. 14 00:00:43,693 --> 00:00:46,452 Speaker 5: Actually I've watched a few games and you've very popular 15 00:00:46,492 --> 00:00:49,212 Speaker 5: with the ladies, so you know, do do with that 16 00:00:49,333 --> 00:00:54,133 Speaker 5: as you will. Hey, how do you raise rise through 17 00:00:54,133 --> 00:00:57,733 Speaker 5: the ranks to become an international referee? How does it 18 00:00:57,773 --> 00:00:59,933 Speaker 5: start and how do you get there to the very top? 19 00:01:00,813 --> 00:01:02,093 Speaker 3: Well, it's a little bit of luck and a little 20 00:01:02,093 --> 00:01:04,733 Speaker 3: bit of hard work involved. It's very similar to players. 21 00:01:04,773 --> 00:01:07,493 Speaker 3: I think in any sport, you obviously fall in love 22 00:01:07,493 --> 00:01:10,853 Speaker 3: with the sport that that you're involved in. And for me, 23 00:01:11,053 --> 00:01:12,572 Speaker 3: I played rugby when I was younger. I grew up 24 00:01:12,572 --> 00:01:15,572 Speaker 3: at went to Mobile Boys and you know, love throwing 25 00:01:15,572 --> 00:01:17,973 Speaker 3: the footy around. But when I went to university and 26 00:01:18,253 --> 00:01:20,613 Speaker 3: guys sort of wanted to be all backs, they sort 27 00:01:20,652 --> 00:01:23,333 Speaker 3: of their skills took over, and I just decided I 28 00:01:23,373 --> 00:01:25,373 Speaker 3: wanted to stay involved in the game, and I just 29 00:01:25,453 --> 00:01:27,813 Speaker 3: keep referring. So and you go through the levels of 30 00:01:27,813 --> 00:01:32,212 Speaker 3: club rugby, juniors, seniors, bit of NPC, and then you know, 31 00:01:32,253 --> 00:01:34,813 Speaker 3: if you're lucky enough and you know you get on 32 00:01:34,853 --> 00:01:37,853 Speaker 3: the right track, you can be given contracts to do 33 00:01:37,853 --> 00:01:40,212 Speaker 3: do Super Rugby international games. So I sort of you 34 00:01:40,253 --> 00:01:42,693 Speaker 3: sort of just follow that player path and you're very 35 00:01:42,813 --> 00:01:43,653 Speaker 3: very grateful to do it. 36 00:01:44,253 --> 00:01:46,012 Speaker 5: So how many reps, you know, how many games you 37 00:01:46,053 --> 00:01:48,613 Speaker 5: have to do before you get get tapped or is 38 00:01:48,613 --> 00:01:51,693 Speaker 5: it just the people out there looking for referee talent. 39 00:01:52,453 --> 00:01:55,013 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's always this coaches and assessors. Obviously a 40 00:01:55,053 --> 00:01:58,013 Speaker 3: lot of feedback from from coaches of games and teams 41 00:01:58,013 --> 00:02:01,013 Speaker 3: as well. So I got a pretty good reputation down 42 00:02:01,013 --> 00:02:03,892 Speaker 3: at Otago referring some good footed down there, and luckily 43 00:02:03,933 --> 00:02:05,533 Speaker 3: I was out of you know, do my time down 44 00:02:05,613 --> 00:02:09,333 Speaker 3: there a bit of learning and then obviously got pushed 45 00:02:09,373 --> 00:02:10,893 Speaker 3: up to the high ranks, which was which I'm very 46 00:02:10,933 --> 00:02:11,453 Speaker 3: fortunate for. 47 00:02:12,173 --> 00:02:13,972 Speaker 4: Do you love it and what are the best parts? 48 00:02:14,013 --> 00:02:14,493 Speaker 4: If you do? 49 00:02:15,493 --> 00:02:18,972 Speaker 3: Oh, look, I absolutely love it. I love I love 50 00:02:19,013 --> 00:02:21,333 Speaker 3: the challenge of, you know, preparing for a Test match 51 00:02:21,373 --> 00:02:23,493 Speaker 3: and you know, the Friday night at seven thirty for 52 00:02:23,532 --> 00:02:25,453 Speaker 3: a Saturday game, not knowing what the next day is 53 00:02:25,453 --> 00:02:27,973 Speaker 3: going to bring, but knowing that, loock, I've prepared as 54 00:02:28,013 --> 00:02:29,293 Speaker 3: much as I can. It's going to be great. Let's 55 00:02:29,293 --> 00:02:32,733 Speaker 3: go out there. I love the anthems. I love just 56 00:02:32,773 --> 00:02:34,532 Speaker 3: before I blow the whistle. There's always a really good 57 00:02:34,853 --> 00:02:36,853 Speaker 3: stadium eentum that I've got going on in the stadium 58 00:02:36,853 --> 00:02:38,613 Speaker 3: at the time. I'm in the middle of the field 59 00:02:38,613 --> 00:02:40,613 Speaker 3: and I'm ready to go in and I love that. 60 00:02:41,453 --> 00:02:43,533 Speaker 3: And I also love the aftermath. I think, you know, 61 00:02:43,613 --> 00:02:46,692 Speaker 3: reflecting on a game that's gone well is an amazing feeling, 62 00:02:46,693 --> 00:02:48,693 Speaker 3: and having you know, friends in the stadium watching it 63 00:02:48,733 --> 00:02:49,292 Speaker 3: is pretty cool. 64 00:02:49,573 --> 00:02:52,053 Speaker 2: I'm getting goosebumps here and you say that, Ben, wait, 65 00:02:52,133 --> 00:02:52,453 Speaker 2: do you have it? 66 00:02:52,773 --> 00:02:53,493 Speaker 3: Sorry? You go, Matt. 67 00:02:53,573 --> 00:02:55,333 Speaker 4: I was just going to say, what are the tough parts? Then? 68 00:02:55,613 --> 00:02:57,013 Speaker 4: You know, those are the great parts. What are the 69 00:02:57,013 --> 00:02:58,053 Speaker 4: tough parts been? 70 00:02:58,773 --> 00:03:00,453 Speaker 3: Well? I think one of the tough thing is that, 71 00:03:00,532 --> 00:03:02,813 Speaker 3: like my personality, like I want to be good, I 72 00:03:02,853 --> 00:03:06,133 Speaker 3: want to be perfect, and it's just a really hard job. 73 00:03:06,333 --> 00:03:08,173 Speaker 3: And it is my job. It's a really hard job 74 00:03:08,213 --> 00:03:11,213 Speaker 3: to actually do well and constantly because like I'm obviously 75 00:03:11,213 --> 00:03:13,413 Speaker 3: constantly reviewing my games, I've got coaches review and my 76 00:03:13,413 --> 00:03:15,493 Speaker 3: game's assister to review of my games. And then you 77 00:03:15,532 --> 00:03:17,293 Speaker 3: feel like you in the public reviews your games as well, 78 00:03:17,333 --> 00:03:19,893 Speaker 3: So it's really hard to and you can never actually 79 00:03:19,893 --> 00:03:21,893 Speaker 3: get everyone sort of accepting that you've done a good job. 80 00:03:21,972 --> 00:03:24,933 Speaker 3: So that's a big challenge. I think the challenge now 81 00:03:24,933 --> 00:03:26,333 Speaker 3: that we're seeing a lot of and we've seen in 82 00:03:26,373 --> 00:03:29,613 Speaker 3: the media too, is some of probably the abuse is 83 00:03:29,653 --> 00:03:32,412 Speaker 3: happening on the sidelines, not just in international games. It's 84 00:03:32,413 --> 00:03:34,613 Speaker 3: certainly just in the public and the community games we have, 85 00:03:35,253 --> 00:03:37,373 Speaker 3: and then extends out to social media as well, which 86 00:03:37,373 --> 00:03:39,493 Speaker 3: I think is a big problem. In every sport. 87 00:03:40,013 --> 00:03:43,973 Speaker 2: There pressure that you undoubtedly feel as a referee, particularly 88 00:03:44,013 --> 00:03:46,172 Speaker 2: at the higher levels. Ben I take it there, your 89 00:03:46,213 --> 00:03:49,093 Speaker 2: fellow referees, other colleagues feel that pressure as well. How 90 00:03:49,133 --> 00:03:51,653 Speaker 2: do you deal with that, particularly in the modern age 91 00:03:51,693 --> 00:03:54,453 Speaker 2: where you are seeing that feedback and abuse coming out, 92 00:03:54,493 --> 00:03:57,733 Speaker 2: you're not just from the sidelines but online. How do 93 00:03:57,853 --> 00:04:00,172 Speaker 2: you know, when you get home after a big game 94 00:04:00,293 --> 00:04:01,813 Speaker 2: like that, how do you process that stuff? 95 00:04:03,133 --> 00:04:04,893 Speaker 3: It is difficult. I think a lot of the pressure 96 00:04:04,933 --> 00:04:06,253 Speaker 3: and we all do feel the same, you know, we 97 00:04:06,253 --> 00:04:07,933 Speaker 3: want to do a good job. So the way I 98 00:04:07,973 --> 00:04:09,533 Speaker 3: deal with a lot of pressure early on in the 99 00:04:09,533 --> 00:04:11,773 Speaker 3: week is to prepare really well for a game, so physically, 100 00:04:11,893 --> 00:04:14,733 Speaker 3: mentally and on the teams, and then I know I'm confident, 101 00:04:14,773 --> 00:04:16,173 Speaker 3: so I can go in the game knowing that, look, 102 00:04:16,173 --> 00:04:17,773 Speaker 3: I've done all I can. I'm going to do a 103 00:04:17,773 --> 00:04:21,533 Speaker 3: good job. Even then, you can make some mistakes, so 104 00:04:21,653 --> 00:04:23,413 Speaker 3: I do a good review after the game, and it's 105 00:04:23,413 --> 00:04:25,813 Speaker 3: all about learning. So that's that's kind of the learning 106 00:04:25,853 --> 00:04:28,253 Speaker 3: cycle I do. So week in week out, I'm getting better. 107 00:04:28,613 --> 00:04:31,173 Speaker 3: I try and close it there. But certainly some of 108 00:04:31,213 --> 00:04:34,733 Speaker 3: the stuff that you see in the media, you know, 109 00:04:34,973 --> 00:04:36,933 Speaker 3: there's only so much you can try and ignore it, 110 00:04:37,053 --> 00:04:38,733 Speaker 3: and I really do. I try not to read the 111 00:04:38,733 --> 00:04:42,333 Speaker 3: headlines or even the comments when games don't go well. 112 00:04:42,373 --> 00:04:43,813 Speaker 3: I even have to do that when the games do 113 00:04:43,893 --> 00:04:45,493 Speaker 3: go well, because you know you can't just be searching 114 00:04:45,493 --> 00:04:49,173 Speaker 3: for all the good things too. So it's difficult. It's 115 00:04:49,213 --> 00:04:51,693 Speaker 3: been taking. It's taken a lot of years probably just 116 00:04:51,693 --> 00:04:54,093 Speaker 3: to be able to get used to it a lot better. 117 00:04:54,133 --> 00:04:57,013 Speaker 3: So for someone at myself okay, been through a lot 118 00:04:57,053 --> 00:04:58,453 Speaker 3: of it, that's a little bit easier to deal with. 119 00:04:58,493 --> 00:05:00,853 Speaker 3: But I do feel for a lot of young referees, 120 00:05:00,853 --> 00:05:04,133 Speaker 3: not just in rugby but all sports who actually who 121 00:05:04,133 --> 00:05:06,133 Speaker 3: aren't immune to this yet and they're going through it 122 00:05:06,133 --> 00:05:10,093 Speaker 3: now at community levels but also starting in the NBC 123 00:05:10,173 --> 00:05:11,573 Speaker 3: sup Brogian international levels. 124 00:05:11,813 --> 00:05:14,173 Speaker 5: Do you think it's getting worse that that level of 125 00:05:14,253 --> 00:05:16,813 Speaker 5: abuse that that referees get because you know, as I 126 00:05:16,853 --> 00:05:18,453 Speaker 5: was saying in the intro to this, if we don't 127 00:05:18,453 --> 00:05:20,973 Speaker 5: have refs, then there's no game. You know, there's no 128 00:05:21,053 --> 00:05:24,173 Speaker 5: ref there's no game. So if it's getting worse out 129 00:05:24,173 --> 00:05:26,653 Speaker 5: of there, that that's not good for for rugby as 130 00:05:26,653 --> 00:05:26,973 Speaker 5: a whole. 131 00:05:27,973 --> 00:05:30,013 Speaker 3: I think we're just adapting to what everyone's getting used 132 00:05:30,013 --> 00:05:32,293 Speaker 3: to over the last or the decade, with you know, 133 00:05:32,333 --> 00:05:36,533 Speaker 3: access to social media, access to things like fantasy rugula, 134 00:05:36,573 --> 00:05:38,373 Speaker 3: people are actually you know, in a good way, getting 135 00:05:38,373 --> 00:05:41,253 Speaker 3: involved in sports a lot more online. You know, it's 136 00:05:41,293 --> 00:05:44,493 Speaker 3: it's making it more accessible to people globally, and that's 137 00:05:44,533 --> 00:05:47,573 Speaker 3: what I love. You know, people who are a motive, 138 00:05:47,693 --> 00:05:50,013 Speaker 3: are passionate, who love the game. That's that's exactly what 139 00:05:50,053 --> 00:05:52,213 Speaker 3: we want to try and bring up because there is 140 00:05:52,253 --> 00:05:55,213 Speaker 3: an entertainment sport. So I think in some ways we're 141 00:05:55,333 --> 00:05:57,013 Speaker 3: we're sort of trying to catch up with that in 142 00:05:57,013 --> 00:05:59,533 Speaker 3: a way of how okay, we've got access to all 143 00:05:59,533 --> 00:06:03,573 Speaker 3: this great media around sport, but how do we how 144 00:06:03,613 --> 00:06:05,933 Speaker 3: to just temper it to make sure we protect our 145 00:06:05,973 --> 00:06:09,653 Speaker 3: referees Because as I I heard you guys saying before that, 146 00:06:10,013 --> 00:06:12,053 Speaker 3: you know, it's all very well doing it on the 147 00:06:12,093 --> 00:06:14,213 Speaker 3: TV and yelling at a player or yelling at at 148 00:06:14,253 --> 00:06:16,213 Speaker 3: a referee, but you know, as soon as it starts 149 00:06:16,213 --> 00:06:19,493 Speaker 3: transcending down to the rugby fields and the communit levels, 150 00:06:19,493 --> 00:06:20,813 Speaker 3: I think that's where it's quite quite poor. 151 00:06:21,253 --> 00:06:23,573 Speaker 5: So do you think some work could be done around 152 00:06:23,813 --> 00:06:28,933 Speaker 5: just our culture of blaming the ref Is there some 153 00:06:29,053 --> 00:06:32,133 Speaker 5: kind of education that could get out there, some kind 154 00:06:32,173 --> 00:06:34,333 Speaker 5: of information that people know. I mean, it's great you 155 00:06:34,333 --> 00:06:36,133 Speaker 5: you being in the public eye and doing the story 156 00:06:36,133 --> 00:06:38,333 Speaker 5: with Shane Carrion, Thanks for talking to us today, because 157 00:06:38,333 --> 00:06:41,413 Speaker 5: then you actually humanize the referee rather than just being 158 00:06:41,453 --> 00:06:43,973 Speaker 5: the focus of people's anger because their team isn't doing 159 00:06:44,013 --> 00:06:45,933 Speaker 5: as well as they want. If you see what I mean, 160 00:06:45,973 --> 00:06:48,533 Speaker 5: you think if you've thought about how the culture could 161 00:06:48,533 --> 00:06:49,293 Speaker 5: be changed. 162 00:06:49,893 --> 00:06:51,893 Speaker 3: I think there's definitely there needs to be a culture change, 163 00:06:51,933 --> 00:06:53,653 Speaker 3: not just in New Zealand. This is a global problem 164 00:06:53,653 --> 00:06:56,333 Speaker 3: and not just in rugby. So it's all sports, isn't it. 165 00:06:56,413 --> 00:06:58,413 Speaker 3: So I'm big one trying to use my position to 166 00:06:58,853 --> 00:07:01,933 Speaker 3: just make people more aware. I know there's companies like 167 00:07:02,093 --> 00:07:06,973 Speaker 3: or campaigns an Auckland like Act of Love the Games 168 00:07:06,973 --> 00:07:10,213 Speaker 3: that that campaign trying to actually make you know, people not 169 00:07:10,293 --> 00:07:13,293 Speaker 3: just support referees, but support you know, kids and players, 170 00:07:13,293 --> 00:07:15,773 Speaker 3: because you're right, if we don't have we don't have referees, 171 00:07:15,813 --> 00:07:17,173 Speaker 3: we don't have the game. But also if we don't 172 00:07:17,173 --> 00:07:18,973 Speaker 3: have you kids enjoy the game as well, we don't 173 00:07:19,013 --> 00:07:21,653 Speaker 3: have the game either. So there's definitely a cultural thing. 174 00:07:21,733 --> 00:07:24,093 Speaker 3: I think we're seeing a lot more I guess stories 175 00:07:24,093 --> 00:07:26,253 Speaker 3: in the media because there is more awareness of it. 176 00:07:26,293 --> 00:07:28,373 Speaker 3: So I think in a roundab way, right, that is 177 00:07:28,453 --> 00:07:30,893 Speaker 3: that is a good thing. So people are talking about 178 00:07:30,933 --> 00:07:34,333 Speaker 3: it more. There are headlines more because people are saying, actually, well, 179 00:07:34,453 --> 00:07:36,413 Speaker 3: this isn't right. You know, there's we can we can 180 00:07:36,533 --> 00:07:38,213 Speaker 3: love the game, we can support the game, but I 181 00:07:38,213 --> 00:07:40,213 Speaker 3: think it does cross the line when you know we're 182 00:07:40,213 --> 00:07:43,173 Speaker 3: trying to you know, blame blame referees for it, and 183 00:07:43,373 --> 00:07:44,933 Speaker 3: especially if we're not willing to give it a go. 184 00:07:45,133 --> 00:07:48,293 Speaker 3: So I think that's it's a tough job and a 185 00:07:48,293 --> 00:07:50,093 Speaker 3: lot of volunteers out there do it because they love 186 00:07:50,133 --> 00:07:52,013 Speaker 3: the game too, So I just think we should we 187 00:07:52,013 --> 00:07:53,533 Speaker 3: should always take that into cant as well. 188 00:07:54,133 --> 00:07:56,173 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you do you ever blame the ref when 189 00:07:56,213 --> 00:07:57,053 Speaker 4: you're watching a game? 190 00:07:58,013 --> 00:08:01,173 Speaker 3: No, no, no, never, never, I promise you, I'd say, 191 00:08:01,253 --> 00:08:03,493 Speaker 3: because I know what it's like. But but i'd also 192 00:08:03,573 --> 00:08:05,693 Speaker 3: know what it's like, you know, playing sports where you 193 00:08:05,733 --> 00:08:08,253 Speaker 3: know you can get a little bit passionate about you know, 194 00:08:08,413 --> 00:08:10,373 Speaker 3: call that's been made. So yeah, you know, there's nothing 195 00:08:10,413 --> 00:08:12,093 Speaker 3: wrong with that, But it's just it's just what you 196 00:08:12,213 --> 00:08:16,253 Speaker 3: do outside of that. It's what you do when you 197 00:08:16,293 --> 00:08:18,773 Speaker 3: know you're sitting on your phone, you're thinking about making 198 00:08:18,773 --> 00:08:21,173 Speaker 3: a comment on a on a headline or to someone's 199 00:08:21,213 --> 00:08:23,693 Speaker 3: personal page. I think that's when you know, that's where 200 00:08:23,733 --> 00:08:26,493 Speaker 3: the culture I think should stopped there. But certainly you know, 201 00:08:26,853 --> 00:08:31,813 Speaker 3: we want to love. That's about knowing with withdraw the line. 202 00:08:31,693 --> 00:08:33,613 Speaker 5: And did you feel when you're coming up because obviously 203 00:08:33,653 --> 00:08:35,613 Speaker 5: now you're you're out on the field, you're you know, 204 00:08:35,653 --> 00:08:37,773 Speaker 5: you're at the top of the game, so actually on 205 00:08:37,813 --> 00:08:40,493 Speaker 5: the field, you're you know, security everywhere. 206 00:08:40,892 --> 00:08:42,732 Speaker 4: But did you ever have issues when you. 207 00:08:42,612 --> 00:08:44,933 Speaker 5: Were coming up through the and the and the absolute 208 00:08:44,973 --> 00:08:48,693 Speaker 5: grassroots of the game where you felt unsafe, where your 209 00:08:48,973 --> 00:08:50,652 Speaker 5: you know, your physical safety was that threat. 210 00:08:51,892 --> 00:08:54,612 Speaker 3: It is interesting like after every SUPERUGBIA or test match, 211 00:08:54,813 --> 00:08:57,372 Speaker 3: you don't always get security to walk you off the field, right, 212 00:08:57,813 --> 00:09:01,173 Speaker 3: but when they do walk you off, you're like, Okay, 213 00:09:01,173 --> 00:09:02,852 Speaker 3: they must have been something they're having in the game. 214 00:09:02,892 --> 00:09:07,532 Speaker 3: But it's always a good you look, your reviews wore 215 00:09:07,573 --> 00:09:10,173 Speaker 3: been done. But now look, coming up, I thought, I 216 00:09:10,213 --> 00:09:14,053 Speaker 3: think we were quite fortunate. You know, I certainly believe that. 217 00:09:14,413 --> 00:09:16,653 Speaker 3: You know, I grew up with as a junior, with 218 00:09:16,732 --> 00:09:20,213 Speaker 3: senior referees who, you know, they didn't have social media 219 00:09:20,252 --> 00:09:21,453 Speaker 3: on their phone, you know, if they didn't want to 220 00:09:21,453 --> 00:09:23,732 Speaker 3: read about the game, they just didn't read the newspaper yea. 221 00:09:24,132 --> 00:09:26,333 Speaker 3: So it was almost like I've been able to bridge 222 00:09:26,372 --> 00:09:29,253 Speaker 3: that and seeing how it's changed where now as I've 223 00:09:29,252 --> 00:09:32,453 Speaker 3: come up, you know, every every junior referee has access 224 00:09:32,492 --> 00:09:35,933 Speaker 3: to a phone now, every junior referee. And also I'm 225 00:09:35,973 --> 00:09:38,653 Speaker 3: in the exposure that that rugby games get isn't just 226 00:09:38,653 --> 00:09:41,693 Speaker 3: international anymore. You know. Club Rugby has you know, social 227 00:09:41,732 --> 00:09:45,652 Speaker 3: media pages across New Zealand as well, so there's a 228 00:09:45,732 --> 00:09:48,333 Speaker 3: lot more access to to comments and two things like that. 229 00:09:48,372 --> 00:09:50,893 Speaker 3: So I think I think growing up I was, I 230 00:09:50,933 --> 00:09:53,773 Speaker 3: was quite lucky. But but suming I can because because 231 00:09:53,773 --> 00:09:56,333 Speaker 3: I've come through so recently i've been, I can actually 232 00:09:56,453 --> 00:09:59,093 Speaker 3: I'm connected to how bad it can be right now. 233 00:09:59,612 --> 00:10:02,493 Speaker 2: Yeah, what's your thoughts on the technology side of things? 234 00:10:02,533 --> 00:10:02,733 Speaker 3: Ben? 235 00:10:02,813 --> 00:10:06,093 Speaker 2: Do you think that helps it all with that culture 236 00:10:06,173 --> 00:10:08,133 Speaker 2: change that has needed to see that you've got that 237 00:10:08,372 --> 00:10:10,653 Speaker 2: technology to rely on or it's always going to come 238 00:10:10,693 --> 00:10:13,173 Speaker 2: down to the human elements of it and the reef 239 00:10:13,293 --> 00:10:15,093 Speaker 2: is there to do the best job they can and 240 00:10:15,132 --> 00:10:18,053 Speaker 2: people need to know that even if they do get passionate. 241 00:10:19,053 --> 00:10:22,373 Speaker 3: I think I think the way that technology use is 242 00:10:22,453 --> 00:10:25,093 Speaker 3: used at the moment is pretty good. So we just 243 00:10:25,093 --> 00:10:26,652 Speaker 3: need to make sure that we're doing it in a 244 00:10:26,693 --> 00:10:29,532 Speaker 3: way that is actually enhancing the game, so it's still 245 00:10:29,612 --> 00:10:31,732 Speaker 3: entertaining the game in terms of keeping the speed going, 246 00:10:32,413 --> 00:10:35,693 Speaker 3: making it entertaining for people, making sure that we're accurate, 247 00:10:36,132 --> 00:10:38,012 Speaker 3: but without you taking too long to do it. So 248 00:10:38,293 --> 00:10:39,772 Speaker 3: you know, the fact that we use the TMO now, 249 00:10:39,813 --> 00:10:43,053 Speaker 3: the fact that we you know, have slow motion replays, 250 00:10:43,053 --> 00:10:44,852 Speaker 3: as long as we getting the decisions right within a 251 00:10:44,892 --> 00:10:47,213 Speaker 3: quick timeframe, and I think that's fine. I think you know, 252 00:10:47,213 --> 00:10:50,013 Speaker 3: we're working constantly, as referring teams in the background to 253 00:10:50,012 --> 00:10:52,213 Speaker 3: make sure that we're not using, for example, the TMO 254 00:10:53,213 --> 00:10:56,533 Speaker 3: just to get everything perfect a good element of not 255 00:10:56,612 --> 00:10:58,693 Speaker 3: the game as well. But if we can do it 256 00:10:58,773 --> 00:11:01,573 Speaker 3: quickly so that we make the right decision, for example, 257 00:11:01,892 --> 00:11:03,933 Speaker 3: the correct driving score, then I think you know, we're 258 00:11:03,933 --> 00:11:06,973 Speaker 3: happy with that. There can be the overuse of technology potentially, 259 00:11:06,973 --> 00:11:10,213 Speaker 3: and that's potentially what we see in maybe sports overseas, 260 00:11:10,213 --> 00:11:12,213 Speaker 3: where you know, the games are four or five hours. 261 00:11:12,213 --> 00:11:13,653 Speaker 3: I don't think we want that in New Zealand, want 262 00:11:13,653 --> 00:11:16,213 Speaker 3: a fast game. But if we're wanting that in New Zealand, 263 00:11:16,213 --> 00:11:18,093 Speaker 3: we're saying that, look, this is what we don't want 264 00:11:18,093 --> 00:11:20,093 Speaker 3: that five our game, then you're going to have an 265 00:11:20,093 --> 00:11:22,613 Speaker 3: element of there will be some mistakes. I think we 266 00:11:22,653 --> 00:11:24,933 Speaker 3: have to understand that as a public Yeah, well. 267 00:11:24,693 --> 00:11:25,053 Speaker 4: Tell you what. 268 00:11:25,773 --> 00:11:28,772 Speaker 5: We're talking to Ben o keith, international rugby referee and 269 00:11:28,813 --> 00:11:30,333 Speaker 5: there's a lot of love for you coming through on 270 00:11:30,372 --> 00:11:33,693 Speaker 5: the text machine, mate, So you know, social media can 271 00:11:33,732 --> 00:11:35,893 Speaker 5: be tough, but and so can our text machine actually, 272 00:11:35,933 --> 00:11:37,852 Speaker 5: but there's a lot of love coming through, so you know, 273 00:11:38,132 --> 00:11:39,933 Speaker 5: I hope you know that people appreciate what you do. 274 00:11:41,173 --> 00:11:43,293 Speaker 3: That's awesome. I love it. It's really awesome to hear. 275 00:11:43,892 --> 00:11:46,493 Speaker 2: Yeah, been awesome to chat with you. Thank you very 276 00:11:46,573 --> 00:11:48,492 Speaker 2: much and hopefully we'll catch up again soon. 277 00:11:49,252 --> 00:11:51,252 Speaker 3: Awestome guys, thanks very much. Go well. 278 00:11:51,293 --> 00:11:55,413 Speaker 2: That that is being O'Keefe international rugby referee and a 279 00:11:55,453 --> 00:11:56,893 Speaker 2: great man to boot as well. 280 00:11:57,492 --> 00:12:00,132 Speaker 1: For more from News Talks d B, listen live on 281 00:12:00,213 --> 00:12:03,173 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 282 00:12:03,213 --> 00:12:05,772 Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio