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Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's international realty the ones

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Speaker 1: with worldwide connections that perform not a promise.

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Speaker 2: Tris Shuson Huson Willis pr is with us this evening

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Speaker 2: high Trish, Hello, welcome along. And Josie Pagani child Fund

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Speaker 2: is with us too. Good evening trick, Joseie, forgive me. Now,

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Speaker 2: let's start with the Defense Capability Plan. It's quite a

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Speaker 2: big chunk of change, twelve billion dollars over four years,

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Speaker 2: although three billion dollars of that is going on depreciation apparently,

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Speaker 2: but it is a significant investment from the government. Trish,

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Speaker 2: are they putting it in the right places?

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Speaker 3: Well, cometh the hour, cometh Judith Collins, I mean cometh.

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Speaker 4: The arched eyebrown.

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Speaker 3: I don't often hand out Bouquet's two ministers, but in

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Speaker 3: this case I want to say, I think Judith Collins

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Speaker 3: has done a very good job on this very important

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Speaker 3: piece of work. We have now got a government on

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Speaker 3: these big areas of work that takes time to get

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Speaker 3: a thoughtful plan together. There's been a lot of push

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Speaker 3: for them to get this capability report out. They've resisted that,

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Speaker 3: and they've come out today and it sounds like a

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Speaker 3: very thoughtful and robust plan. There are always going to

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Speaker 3: be questions around where the money's coming from. We'll have

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Speaker 3: to wait for the budget for that. But the big

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Speaker 3: signal that it's trying to send is that we are

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Speaker 3: ready to do our part, and we have to do

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Speaker 3: our part. The key takeout is really that New Zealand

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Speaker 3: can no longer rely on the tyranny or benefit of distance.

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Speaker 3: And you know, there was a great podcast recently Oliver

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Speaker 3: Hart which at the New Zealand Initiative with the former

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Speaker 3: Secretary of Home Affairs for Australia, Michael Paluzzo, who said

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Speaker 3: exactly that then effectively New Zealand has to sort of

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Speaker 3: wake up and grow up and we've got to do

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Speaker 3: our bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think it's got pretty good chance of bipartisan support actually,

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Speaker 4: because it's pretty sensible. There was one line which is

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Speaker 4: apparently funding the modernization of accommodation messing and dining rooms,

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Speaker 4: which sounds a bit like a plan for a teenager's bedroom.

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Speaker 4: But everything else I think makes perfect sense. And you know, look,

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Speaker 4: I believe that we are in a nineteen thirty eight

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Speaker 4: moment and it really matters what we do and it

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Speaker 4: matters that New Zealand plays its part. You know, if

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Speaker 4: you look at it in ninety thirty eight, there were

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Speaker 4: hot wars all over the place that seemed disconnected. You had,

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Speaker 4: you know, Germany, Italy, Abyssinia, you had all of these

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Speaker 4: disconnected wars, hot wars. We've got the same now, we've

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Speaker 4: got Ukraine, we've got Middle East, we've got skirmishes in

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Speaker 4: the South China seas and it wouldn't take much. There's

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Speaker 4: a lot of trip wires around. We've got Trump promising

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Speaker 4: to invade Panama Canal in Canada and Greenland. You've got

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Speaker 4: Taiwan doing alarming war games around Taiwan just over the

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Speaker 4: last couple of days. So there's a hell of a

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Speaker 4: lot happening as the Middle East. And I think you know,

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Speaker 4: New Zealand has to be has to be ready. Big

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Speaker 4: question Ryan is going to be where's the money coming from?

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Speaker 4: And it mustn't come from aid budgets. I mean Judith

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Speaker 4: herself said, you know, the New Zealand Defense Force is

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Speaker 4: active in the Pacific around cyclones, around emergency responses and

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Speaker 4: someone and so are aid agencies like ours. You know

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Speaker 4: that it can't come at the expensive aid budgets, because

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Speaker 4: that's more important, the.

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Speaker 2: Only thing we don't have, and it's not necessarily Judith's job,

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Speaker 2: but is a direction of Okay, when Taiwan kicks off,

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Speaker 2: which it will, it's not a matter of if it's

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Speaker 2: when they do that. What is our role? You know,

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Speaker 2: whose side are we on here? What do we do

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Speaker 2: with this new military equipment that we've purchased.

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Speaker 3: Well, that was the big question out of today. Actually

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Speaker 3: there was a comment about we are serious and we

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Speaker 3: need we need friends. And when I was listening to

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Speaker 3: that in the press commens I put a dash and said,

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Speaker 3: who are our friends? Because this is the really crunchy

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Speaker 3: issue that they government is trying to deal with, the

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Speaker 3: fact that trade and what Trump is doing with tariffs

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Speaker 3: and upending the world trade order is inextricably linked to

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Speaker 3: defense and every other country that every other every ally

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Speaker 3: of the US has not been spared in Trump's tariff

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Speaker 3: trade war, not our best friend Australia, not New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: even though it's a little bit and what he's done

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Speaker 3: has made Europe go okay economically and from a defense perspective,

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Speaker 3: we have to get our shit together and we've got

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Speaker 3: to be able to essentially be a self sufficient European bloc.

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Speaker 3: So that's a trick question.

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Speaker 4: That and I think you talk about China and Taiwan Ryan,

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Speaker 4: but actually, if you use the thirty eight nineteen thirty

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Speaker 4: eight metaphor again, you imagine if the Czech and Slovakans

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Speaker 4: had really pushed back on Hitler. You imagine if Chamberlain

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Speaker 4: hadn't signed a peace plan and appeasement like you can

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Speaker 4: have a bit of Czechoslovakia or not. What we've seen

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Speaker 4: with Ukraine is the opposite of what happened in thirty eight,

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Speaker 4: where actually, you know, they pushed back on Putin, and

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Speaker 4: if we don't appease one thug eye Putin, actually that's

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Speaker 4: going to have a domino effect around around the other

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Speaker 4: aristocrats who are threatening Taiwan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that, except that all it

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Speaker 2: does is drain your resources and you run out of money.

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Speaker 2: I mean, who's going to want to go and fight

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Speaker 2: a war on the Pacific when they've just spent everything

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Speaker 2: they had in Europe.

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Speaker 4: But the same would be true of Putin, right, I mean,

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Speaker 4: if he gets pushed back in Ukraine, then you know,

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Speaker 4: China and Shi Jimping goes well maybe I won't try

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Speaker 4: Taiwan right away. You get pushed, you push back, putin,

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Speaker 4: and then suddenly they're going, all right, I can't, I

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Speaker 4: can't riskless. It's too there's too much to lose here.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, you do send a message. I agree with that.

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Speaker 2: And we're a long way off talking about drones now,

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Speaker 2: aren't we. But fascinating discussion, Joseph began to introduce on

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Speaker 2: the Huddle tonight, fourteen away from six. We're back in

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Speaker 2: a moment. We'll talk about the Greens and their billboards,

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Speaker 2: shall we?

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Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty achieve extraordinary

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Speaker 1: results with unparallel reach.

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Speaker 2: New talks in me. It is eleven away from six.

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Speaker 2: Trishuson and Josie BACGANI here on the Huddle tonight. The

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Speaker 2: Sensible Sentencing Trust has got a new billboard campaign out.

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Speaker 2: In fact, if you're in Auckland or Wellington, you might

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Speaker 2: have driven past one of these on your way home tonight,

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Speaker 2: calling for saying that the Greens want to defund the police.

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Speaker 2: But it's actually not a Green Party billboard, it's a

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Speaker 2: Sensible Senencing Trust billboard and they're trying to make the

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Speaker 2: point that the Greens don't like the cops. Is it

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Speaker 2: a good point, well made? Trish Well.

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Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting to see billboards coming back

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Speaker 3: in terms of political campaigning. I see in the States

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Speaker 3: the Canadians have put political attack ads in key states

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Speaker 3: that are going to lose jobs because of Trump's tariffs,

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Speaker 3: and the simple billboards saying you know, tariffs are are

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Speaker 3: a tax on groceries. But I just wanted to tell

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Speaker 3: you one of my best pieces of work I think

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Speaker 3: in my career might have been my worst. I was

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Speaker 3: working for a company and they wanted to change Zespree's

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Speaker 3: monopoly on being able to export kiwi fruit. So came

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Speaker 3: up with a billboard and it was two huge, dangly

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Speaker 3: browned kiwi fruit hairy Oh my god, that you know,

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Speaker 3: massive billboard as you drive into Wellington Airport. Whacked it

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Speaker 3: up there and it said it's kicking us right where

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Speaker 3: it hurts. So I love when I see other people.

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Speaker 4: Thing, isn't that there's a great tradition of satirical political billboards, right,

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Speaker 4: And the funniest thing about this one, I think is

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Speaker 4: that everybody's dislike kind of snook of themselves. So the

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Speaker 4: Greens are making a big fuss of it. We're talking

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Speaker 4: about it. It's getting a heap more attention. But then

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Speaker 4: with a Sensible Sentencing Trust, they've put these billboards up

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Speaker 4: in central Wellington and Central Auckland that the Green So

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Speaker 4: it's like, wouldn't you put it so if you wanted

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Speaker 4: to kind of increase the profile of sensible Sensing Trust

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Speaker 4: and go oh yeah right, you know those damn Greens

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Speaker 4: want to defund the police, wouldn't you put it somewhere

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Speaker 4: where you're going to get more support? Whereas everyone's just

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Speaker 4: looking at going great yep. The Greens they want to

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Speaker 4: defund the police and also replace them with New Zealand

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Speaker 4: flight attendants handing out Air New Zealand suites to criminals.

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Speaker 3: The headline is very clever though, because as soon as

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Speaker 3: I read that headline I can hear the song that

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Speaker 3: tomanth Ball played. DJ said.

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Speaker 2: Defund de cops, it said on the billboard.

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Speaker 4: Might be better than our version.

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Speaker 2: Very quickly, before we go Trump and is tariffs. Josie,

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Speaker 2: you have the floor first, what is the reason will

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Speaker 2: he negotiate?

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Speaker 4: Well, this is the problem. He's both negotiating and he's saying,

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Speaker 4: my great big capital letters, my politics are not changing,

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Speaker 4: you know. So in other words, the tariffs are there

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Speaker 4: because you're ripping off the US and I'm saving manufacturing

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Speaker 4: and jobs. Both of those things can't be true. You're negotiating,

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Speaker 4: it means you're prepared to drop the tariffs. So no

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Speaker 4: business is going to build a factory in Ohio or

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Speaker 4: anywhere if they think the tariffs are going to go

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Speaker 4: and they lose their domestic advantage. So it's completely incoherent.

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Speaker 4: So he's managed to freeze up any investment at the

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Speaker 4: same time as potentially cause a recession across the whole

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Speaker 4: world with this completely incoherent Trump tariff policy.

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Speaker 3: It's economic vandalism in pursuit of an absolute mirage. As

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Speaker 3: Josie said, no one because of the huge political uncertainty

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Speaker 3: now in the system in the US, is going to

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Speaker 3: go and invest to build factories and jobs in the US.

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Speaker 3: But worse than that, this is a system that is

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Speaker 3: ripe for corruption. So going now on bended knee to

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Speaker 3: the President of the United States, all the opacity around that,

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Speaker 3: you know, who knows what those deals are going to be?

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Speaker 3: The thing to think about, and I loved you your editorial,

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Speaker 3: and I thought it's great to calm the horses. It

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Speaker 3: might be slightly a polyannoroish view, because what could happen

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Speaker 3: here is not only a global recession, but even more

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Speaker 3: serious than that, a serious economic meltdown. And if that happens,

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Speaker 3: unlike the GFC or when COVID hit, there aren't the

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Speaker 3: big serious players in the US at the highest levels

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Speaker 3: like we had at those times, who will be able

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Speaker 3: to join up, say with the UK, and lead us

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Speaker 3: through that. So you've still got the head of the

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Speaker 3: Federal Reserve, but you don't have anyone in those other

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Speaker 3: positions other than sicker fans around Trump.

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Speaker 4: And I give one quote before we go, pg I,

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Speaker 4: the great American commentator. He said, his dad now, but

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Speaker 4: whenever there's a justice suppression is suffering, America will show

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Speaker 4: up six months late and bomb the country next to it.

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Speaker 4: So thanks America for baggering off from the world.

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Speaker 2: Thank you Donald Trump, begun interest US and thanks guys.

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Speaker 2: We have to leave it there on the huddle tonight.

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Speaker 2: It is seven away from the six news talks. ZB

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Speaker 2: don't forget. After six we're going to talk to Nikola Willis,

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Speaker 2: who's Finance Minister and will find out where that money

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Speaker 2: is coming from for defense.

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Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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Speaker 1: News Talk ZB from four pm weekdays, or follow the

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Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio