1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: This episode of A Moment in Crime is the second 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: and a two part story. It is about the murder 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: of three young children by their mother. Their deaths are 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: outlined in detail. The episode also traverses the offender's extensive 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: mental health issues, fertility and miscarriage, and self harm, and 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: is intended for a mature audience. If you are struggling 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: or you're worried about a loved one, please see the 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: show notes for crisis help and support information. In September 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Lauren Dickerson and her orthopedic surgeon husband Graham, 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: emigrated from South Africa to New Zealand when he got 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: a job at Timrou Hospital. The couple and their children, 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: leonee sex and two year old twins Maya and Carla, 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: spent two weeks in managed isolation at an Auckland hotel 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: before arriving at their new home on the mainland a 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: week later. Just twenty minutes after a husband left to 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: attend a work function, Lauren smothered the children to death. 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: She tucked them up in their beds, and then she 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: tried to take her own life. When Graham came home, 19 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: he walked in his front door straight into a nightmare. 20 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 1: He found the girls dead, his wife almost catatonic. Soon 21 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: after police converged on the scene. The next day, Lauren 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: Dickerson was charged with three counts of murder and so 23 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: began one of the biggest child death prosecutions in New 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: Zealand's history. This episode of A Moment in Crime is 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: the second of two parts telling the story of the 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: Dickerson family tragedy. Part one was about Lauren and Graham, 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: how they met, married, became parents, and their emigration journey. 28 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: This episode is about Lawrence High Court trial and what 29 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: happened to her afterwards. I attended every day of the 30 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: five week trial and will take you through both the 31 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: prosecution and defense cases, including what the expert witnesses told 32 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: the jury about Lauren's mental state. It was an incredibly 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: intense trial. The interest in the case and the case 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: itself were unprecedented in New Zealand. The evidence was extensive 35 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: and exhausting for the jury, the lawyers, the media, and 36 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: those who sat in the public gallery a max of 37 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: Lauren and Graham's family and members of the public from 38 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: the outset. Lauren admitted killing the girls. She admitted everything, 39 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: but she mounted a defense of insanity or infanticide, saying 40 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: she was so severely mentally unwell at the time that 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: she could not be held criminally responsible. Under New Zealand's 42 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: Crimes Act, a person cannot be convicted of an events 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: committed when they were laboring under natural imbecility or a 44 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: disease of the mind to such an extent they are 45 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: rendered incapable of understanding the nature and quality of their actions, 46 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: or knowing their actions were morally wrong. A person can 47 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: be found insane either in the time before their offense 48 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: or at the specific time of their offense. Infanticide under 49 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: New Zealand law operates both as a standalone offense and 50 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: as a partial defense to murder or manslaughter. Infanticide is 51 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: defined as a woman causing the death of any child 52 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: of hers under the age of ten, where at the 53 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: time of the offense the balance of her mind was disturbed. 54 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: That disturbance can be caused by the woman not having 55 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: recovered from the effect of giving birth to that or 56 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: any child. The onus was on the defense to prove 57 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: beyond reasonable doubt that Lauren Dickerson was so unwell she 58 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: could not be convicted of murder. The prosecution's job was 59 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: to convince the jury that while Lauren may have been 60 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: depressed to a high degree, she still knew what she 61 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: was doing was wrong and she was guilty of murder. 62 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: In this episode, I'll explain to you what happened in 63 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: court and why, as well as Lauren's sentencing in June 64 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. You'll also hear audio straight from the courtroom, 65 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: including what Graham's final words were on his wife's terrible actions. 66 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: As I said in the first part of a Moment 67 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: in Crime, the Dickinson family tragedy. This episode will be 68 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: upsetting for some people, but it's important to tell the 69 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: story from start to finish, to explain what happened to 70 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: these little girls and why, And in my opinion, it's 71 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: important you hear this story from someone who covered it 72 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: from start to finish, who attended every day of the 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: trial and can give a full account of the prosecution 74 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: and defense cases. If this episode brings up any issues 75 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: for you, or you're worried about a loved one or 76 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: any children, please see the show notes for a list 77 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: of crisis and support services. From the who Done Its 78 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: in Cold Cases to the Strange and Quirky Crime is 79 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating corners of society and the news. 80 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: From the New Zealand Herald newsroom. Comes a Moment in Crime. 81 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: A podcast delving into some of New Zealand's most high 82 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: profile cases, offenses, and each month I'll take you inside 83 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: some of our most infamous incidents, notorious offenders, and behind 84 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 2: the scenes of high profile trials and events to show 85 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: you what's really happening in your backyard. On Monday July seventeenth, 86 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, Lauren Dickinson was transported from Hilmoorton Hospital 87 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: as a cure forensic mental health facility, to the High 88 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: Court at christ Church. She was taken up to the 89 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: holding area adjacent to Courtroom twelve to wait for her lawyers. 90 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: Once they arrived, they walked Lauren into the courtroom and 91 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: showed her where she would sit the judge's bench, the 92 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: jury box, where the Crown and the media would be 93 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: in the public gallery. Lauren had a psychiatric nurse with 94 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: her and two female corrections officers. It had been arranged 95 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: earlier that she would be accompanied to and from court 96 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 2: during her trial by the same people. 97 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: All she was familiar with. Three nurses would take turns 98 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: sitting with Lauren, and the guards remained the same for 99 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: most of the trial. Journalists were allowed into the courtroom 100 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: at ten thirty am to set up. Unusually, Lauren was 101 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: already sitting in the dock. At a trial, the defendant 102 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: was not brought into court into the judges in place, 103 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: but due to Lauren's fragile mental health, it was decided 104 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: it was better to have her come in and get 105 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: situated first. It was the first time she had appeared 106 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: in court in person since she was charged. She hadn't 107 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 1: changed a lot. She still looked exhausted, pale, and drawn. 108 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: She looked troubled. She wore a simple black top and 109 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: a black and white pattern skirt. Her hair was down. 110 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: She wore no makeup or jewelry. Lauren looked significantly older 111 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: than her forty one years. The impact of the events 112 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one had clearly taken a toll on her. 113 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: At eleven am, jury selection began. When twelve men and 114 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: women were selected and sworn in, Lauren was arraigned. Each 115 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: char put to her for a plea. Lauren was calm 116 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: and composed and responded with a quiet not guilty. Justice 117 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: Cameron Mander then addressed the jury, outlining their responsibilities and 118 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: warning them that they had to make their decision based 119 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: on the facts of the case alone. There had been 120 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: a massive amount of coverage about the case so far, 121 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: and the jury were reminded it was crucial that they 122 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: did not carry out their own investigation and research during 123 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: the trial. Doing so was a criminal offense. Justice Mander said, 124 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: it is very important to keep an open mind, to 125 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: listen to all of the arguments and to listen to 126 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: my summing up before reaching any conclusions. Often in criminal 127 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: trials feelings of prejudice and sympathy are aroused. It is 128 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: at times difficult to stand aloof but you must endeavor 129 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: to do so. You must not allow your judgment to persuayed. 130 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: You need to remain entirely objective, no matter how difficult 131 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: that may be. Justice Mander said the jury needed to 132 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: be dispassionate and not let their emotions get in the 133 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: way of them assessing the evidence objectively and analytically. He 134 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: briefly outlined the defense of insanity and a fanticide and 135 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: said the jury would hear a breadth of evidence about 136 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: each of those. He said those matters would be central 137 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: to the case it is for the Crown to prove 138 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: beyond reasonable doubt that this is not a case of infanticide, 139 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: he said. Justicemander then invited Crown Prosecutor Andrew mc cray 140 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: to open the case against Lauren. For the first time, 141 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: details about how Lauren killed her children and what she 142 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: told police afterwards could be reported. Andrew McCrae stood and 143 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: faced the jury. He outlined the allegations against Lauren, that 144 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: she smothered her children to death one by one after 145 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: strangling them with cable ties had failed. He spoke of 146 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: her mental health history, her fertility journey and the loss 147 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: of a baby before before Leonnae was born. He spoke 148 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: of the couple's plan for a better life in New 149 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: Zealand and what they went through to move here from 150 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: South Africa. He said it was no secret Lauren suffered 151 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: from a depressive disorder. It was no secret that she 152 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: had a lifelong issue with anxiety and perfectionism. It was 153 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: no secret she struggled with her children. The day they died, 154 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: McCrae said, Lauren simply snapped. He said, there is no 155 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: doubt in this case that the defendant was responsible for 156 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: killing her own children. The issue is whether she intended 157 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: to kill the children in anger, frustration, or resentment for 158 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: how they were getting in the way of her relationship. 159 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: She knew what she was doing before, during, and after. 160 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: She acted methodically, even clinically. The defendant was angry at 161 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: her children for not listening and for jumping on the couch. 162 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: The pressure she was under made her snap. The anger 163 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: was bubbling over. She was resentful at the way the 164 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: children got in the way of her relationship with her husband. 165 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: McCray revealed that police had accessed thousands of text messages 166 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: and emails sent by and to Lauren before she killed 167 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: her children. He said the number of these messages and 168 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: the type of messages, along with Internet searchers and her 169 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: statement to police, ultimately what she has admitted shows a 170 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: relationship with the children that was loving at times and 171 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: fraught at others. The messages show missus Dickerson harbored resentment 172 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: and anger towards her children when they were misbehaving. Lauren 173 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: told friends she was frustrated with the children that she 174 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: felt outnumbered. There was also financial and relationship pressures. Three 175 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: kids has rarely killed. All the passion and a lot 176 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: of the happiness she said in one message about her marriage. 177 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: Lauren also spoke of hurting or murdering the girls in 178 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: various other messages. McCray said messages to her best friend 179 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: the night before the girls died were revealing and a 180 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: chief indicator of what was running through Lauren's mind. She wrote, 181 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: our kids are driving us crazy, though wild, cheeky and disobedient. 182 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: Graham and I are run down. I wish I could 183 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: give them back and start over. I would decide differently. 184 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: McCray also told the jury that before leaving South Africa, 185 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: Lauren had searched the Internet about drugs that could be 186 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: used to overdose children, and there was evidence that Lauren 187 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,599 Speaker 1: had had thoughts about killing her children long before the 188 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: fatal act. When McCray had finished, Lauren's lawyer, Karen Beaton 189 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: spoke briefly to the jury. She said a full defense 190 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: opening would be delivered later in the trial, but at 191 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: the outset she wanted them to know that Lauren was 192 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: a loving mother and wife who went through seventeen rounds 193 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: of IVF to have her daughters, she said, and yet 194 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: she killed them, and it was violent and it was prolonged, 195 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: but afterwards she put them in their beds, tucked them 196 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: in with their soft toys. This is brutal and conf fronting. 197 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: You will be rightly shocked and horrified. But the truth 198 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: is that Lauren Dickerson wanted those children very much, and 199 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: she loved her family. Beaton said, when Lauren killed the girls, 200 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: she was in the midst of a severe mental breakdown. 201 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: Her husband and family knew she was unwell, but had 202 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: no idea how bad things really were. Beaton said, Lauren 203 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: was in such a dark place, so removed from reality, 204 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: so disordered in her thinking, that when she decided to 205 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: kill herself that night, she thought she had to take 206 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: the girls with her. After the opening addresses were done, 207 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: the Crown began to call witnesses. The first was Graham Dickerson. 208 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: The jury first watched Graham's recorded police interview, then he 209 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: was questioned further by the Crown and cross examined by 210 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: the defense. His evidence, given via audio visual link from Pretoria, 211 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: spanned several days. Graham spoke extensive about his wife's IVF 212 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: treatments and her mental health, how she was as a mother, 213 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: and how she seemed to him during and after their 214 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: move to New Zealand. During his evidence, Graham revealed his 215 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: wife had spoken to him on three occasions about harming 216 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: the children before she killed them. Here is what he 217 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: said in court. We were not allowed to record his voice, 218 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: so these are his exact words, read by an actor. 219 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 3: The first incident was roughly in May twenty nineteen. It 220 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 3: was a normal night the nights that nanny came. Lauren 221 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 3: was helping with settling down the twins. When she came 222 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 3: back into the main kitchen area. I could see that 223 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: she was crying and she looked anxious. I immediately asked you, 224 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 3: what's wrong. I cannot remember the exact words, but she 225 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 3: said she felt like she could do something to the babies. 226 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 3: She didn't specify what she meant. I sat with her 227 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: and tried to calm move down. She was crying. I 228 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: phoned her mother, who immediately came over, and we just 229 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 3: tried to talk to Lauren and find out what was 230 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 3: bothering her. 231 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: Lauren went and saw a psychiatrist and was told she 232 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: likely had postpartum depression. She continued having treatment and took medication. 233 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: Her husband suspected the anxiety attack was a combination of 234 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: sleepless nights and fatigue and frustrations with the children who 235 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: did not sleep well. He told the court he didn't 236 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: recall any other issues from that period. Further, his wife improved. 237 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: Graham recalled that she had less anxiety and, in his words, 238 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: seemed to have a good relationship and misfunctioning well with 239 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: the children after that. The second incident Graham told the 240 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: jury about was in July twenty twenty one, when the 241 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: couple was still working towards emigrating. Lauren had a severe 242 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: anxiety attack and told her husband she could make an 243 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: end to it all. Graham questioned her about her comment. 244 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: She told him she felt like she could sedate the 245 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: children and cut their femeral arteries so it can just 246 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: all be over. He told the jury he wasn't worried 247 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: about her doing it, more about why she was saying it. 248 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: He was adamant Lauren was not a violent person, and 249 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: said it was the first time he had ever heard 250 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: her say something like that. Graham asked Lauren to see 251 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: her doctor again, but the next morning things seemed to 252 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: be back to normal and he didn't take any further action, 253 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: suspecting her startling comments were only connected with her anxiety. 254 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: The third incident was when the family was staying with 255 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: Graham's mother before they moved to New Zealand. By then 256 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: it was too late for them to stay in South Africa. 257 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: Their home was sold, their belongings on route to New Zealand. 258 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: They didn't have jobs. Here's what Graham disclosed at the trial, 259 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: again read by an actor. 260 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 3: Lauren came to me out of the blue. I believe 261 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: her words were, I'm having that feeling again. I told 262 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 3: her immediately to take your anti anxiety meds. It was 263 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 3: a much lesser incident. I think my head was just 264 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 3: in a mode of we need to get you on 265 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 3: a plane and get to New Zealand. I hoped once 266 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 3: we got there, all the things that had been worrying 267 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 3: Lauren would stop. I had this vision, and I did 268 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 3: everything I could to get us there. I knew she 269 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 3: was scared, but I was also stared. But knowing her 270 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 3: for fifteen years, I honestly felt we should complete this journey. 271 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 3: And she never told me she wanted to pull the 272 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 3: pluge and not go. It wasn't an option at that stage. 273 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 3: It would have been harder to stay in South Africa. 274 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 3: At that stage, we would have been starting from scratch. 275 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: When Graham finished giving his evidence and answered a number 276 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: of questions from the defense and cross examination, the Crown 277 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: began working its way through the rest of the witness list. McCray, 278 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: assisted by Prosecutor Sean MacManus, moved through the first responders 279 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: who were called to Queen Street the night the girls died, 280 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: some of Graham's colleagues and their wives who had spent 281 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: time with Lauren when the family arrived in Tibodou and 282 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: Leone Khla and Meyer's teachers. They heard from the doctor 283 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: who treated Lauren at Timadoo Hospital. They heard several days 284 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: of evidence about the messages Lauren sent him received. As 285 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: you can imagine, the evidence spanned hours upon hours, and 286 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: I won't be presenting it all here, but I will 287 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: explain the most important points. If you want to find 288 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: out more about the trial, you can find my coverage 289 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: on enzid Herald dot co dot inzed. I'll include a 290 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: link in the show notes to my author bio where 291 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: you can find a full account of each witness and 292 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: what they told the jury at Lauren's trial. Messages sent 293 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: and received by Lauren Dickerson made up a big part 294 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: of the crown case. As part of the police investigation, 295 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: dubbed Operation Royal, A detective was tasked with analyzing the 296 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: contents of Lauren's phone. He went through more than three 297 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty thousand messages sent and received by Lauren 298 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: from her husband, family and friends. The messages spanned from 299 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen to several hours before the children were killed, 300 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: through the pandemic and lockdowns in South Africa, the immigration process, 301 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: the family's isolation period before getting on the plan into 302 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: New Zealand, managed isolation in Auckland, and getting to timrou. 303 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: In many of them messages, Lauren revealed her frustrations about 304 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: her children and their behavior. McCray told the jury that 305 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: the messages provided crucial insight into Lauren's anger towards her kids. 306 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: The first example he read out was a message from 307 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: Lauren to a friend saying she was going to start 308 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: leonee on Augmenton because she was keeping her awake at night. 309 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: She moans all the fucking time, Lauren wrote, before referencing 310 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: strangling the little girl. In another message, she said, I'm 311 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: afraid one day I will smack her too hard. In 312 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: a number of other messages, Laurence spoke of the difficulties 313 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: she had raising the twins and how she often had 314 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: no time for her older daughter. On one occasion, a 315 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: friend asked her what Netflix show she was watching. Lauren 316 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: told her and said the show was very good, adding otherwise, 317 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: I'm just trying not to murder the twins. She also 318 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: spoke of murdering the twins or all three children, and 319 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: various other messages. The women then spoke about a or 320 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: they knew who had separated as a result of stress 321 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: with their children. In many messages, Laurence spoke about having 322 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: rough days with her children, being overwhelmed, emotional, stressed and tired, 323 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: crying or being on the verge of tears, and others. 324 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: She disclosed her struggle and frustrations as a mother and 325 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: with her long term depression and anxiety. Here are some 326 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: of the messages that were read to the jury. While 327 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: these are Lauren Dickerson's actual words, this is not her voice. 328 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 4: I think God is trying to torture me by giving 329 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 4: me the noisiest kids ever. They're making me crazy. My 330 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 4: heart is very sore because I love my kids so 331 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 4: but at the moment I just wish for a day alone. 332 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 4: Every morning and during the day is like wartime with 333 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 4: my depression. Three kids has really killed all the passion 334 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 4: and a lot of the happiness. They almost called you 335 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 4: because I was suicidal. Please don't tell Graham. These kids 336 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 4: really tie me out physically, and it feels like my 337 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 4: fuse is just so short the whole time, and I 338 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 4: want to explode over the tiniest things. Graham and I 339 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 4: don't get time alone. We barely talk to each other. 340 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 4: I feel like I just want to run away. Tonight, 341 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 4: Graham and I decided that our children will not abuse 342 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 4: and scream at us and hit us any further. From 343 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 4: now on, they will get hidings, and all their nice 344 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 4: things will be held back until they start showing some respect. 345 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 4: Tonight they threw corn at me and said the meat 346 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 4: is disgusting. Then they hit me when I told them off. 347 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 4: Maybe the twins are just in terrible twos, but fuck, 348 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 4: they're going to kill me. I was so angry tonight, 349 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 4: I was shaking. I'm under the care of a doctor 350 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 4: for depression, but even though the meds work most of 351 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 4: the time, I get overwhelmed so easily, and the anxiety 352 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 4: gets so bad I cannot eat, sleep, or function properly. 353 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 4: I think most of it is caused by frustration and 354 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 4: boredom as I look after the babies during the day 355 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 4: and I feel as if I have no identity of 356 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 4: my own. 357 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: After the message evidence was presented, the video of Lauren 358 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: speaking to police was played in court. The video was 359 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: about an hour long. During the interview, Lauren confessed to 360 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: killing the children, outlining how she did it and why. 361 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: I covered the interview in depth in the first part 362 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: of a Moment in Crime, the Dickinson family tragedy. If 363 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: you haven't listened to that, I highly recommend going back 364 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: doing so before listening further. Here's how Lauren began with 365 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: the police. These are her words, read by an actor. 366 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 4: I don't even know where to start. It just got 367 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 4: too overwhelming, and with the new visa thing that came 368 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 4: through yesterday, I just see no hope for us here 369 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 4: in the future. Just getting on the airplane was enough 370 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 4: of an effort. There was too much paperwork to be done. 371 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 4: And then there was the two weeks in MiQ which 372 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 4: almost had us crazy. Something just snapped last night. I 373 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 4: just couldn't anymore. I was so tired of screaming, saying no. Basically, 374 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 4: the kids were being wild again, jumping on the couches, 375 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 4: not listening to what I'm trying to tell them. I 376 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 4: have been thinking about it for sure. Last night something 377 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 4: just triggered me. I went to the garage. I saw 378 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 4: some cable ties there. I thought that could possibly work. 379 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: Lauren's police interview was the last part of the Crown 380 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: case before they called their expert evidence. In a trial 381 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: like this, there is an order of how things are done. 382 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: The Crown presents general witnesses first, followed by the defense. 383 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: Expert witnesses are then called before each side gives a 384 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: formal closing address to the jury and hand over to 385 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: the judge to summarize the entire trial and send them 386 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: to deliberate. So once Andrew McCrae rested the Crown case, 387 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: Lauren's lawyers took center stage in the courtroom. Kieran Beaton 388 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: had given a brief statement to the jury on day 389 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: one of the trial, but the full opening of the 390 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: defense case was delivered by Anne Tooey. She told the 391 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: jury there was no denying Lauren had killed her three children, 392 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: but it was not murder. Rather, she did the unthinkable 393 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: act out of love. After deciding to take her own 394 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: life and not wanting to leave the little girls to 395 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: live without a mum. Tooey said, Lauren was in such 396 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: a dark place, so removed from reality, so so soide 397 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: idle and disordered that when she decided to kill herself, 398 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: she thought that she had to take the girls with her. 399 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: Lauren felt inadequate as a mother. She found it hard 400 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: to cope. This was spontaneous. Lauren was in a dark place. 401 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: She believed life was no longer worth living, either for 402 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: her or her children. She decided to kill herself, and 403 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: then she felt that they were all better off dead. 404 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: Her intention was to go to bed and to never 405 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: wake up. The question is why she did that. All 406 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: three defense experts say her mind was disturbed by reason 407 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: of her postpartum depression arising from childbirth. All of the 408 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: defense experts agree that there was an altruistic motive. That 409 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: means that Lauren killed her children out of love. In 410 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: her mind, she was killing them out of love. She 411 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: was killing herself, and she didn't want to leave the children. 412 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: She was so sure this was the right thing to do, 413 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: so she persisted. Tui said the death of the children 414 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 1: was the direct result of Lauren suffering a significant mental disturbance. 415 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: The woman was severely unwell and had effectively been spiraling 416 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: into a deep depression with suicidal thoughts for months. Tui said, 417 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: this is about postpartum depression and a mother who killed 418 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: her children. She did not want to leave her children 419 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: without a mum. She also did not want her children 420 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: to suffer from having such a bad mother. This was 421 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: an impulsive decision. She did not plan it. Why did 422 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: she kill her three beautiful girls, whom she fought for 423 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: years to get through brutal IVF treatments, Her girls whom 424 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: she loved and protected. The answer is that Lauren was 425 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: severely mentally unwell on that night. 426 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 4: There is no. 427 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: Question about that. TUIs said there been a steep decline 428 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: in Lauren's mental health from July twenty twenty one. She 429 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: began to think that she was failing as a mother, 430 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: which happened at a time when she had stopped taking 431 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: her antidepressant medication. After she had thoughts of wanting to 432 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: hurt the girls in August twenty twenty one, which she 433 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: told her husband about. She started taking the medication again, 434 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: but TOOI said. The pills take time to build up 435 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: and were not like panadole for a headache, as it 436 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: turned out six weeks was not enough time, she said, two, 437 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: he said. In the weeks leading up to the Dickersons 438 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: moving to New Zealand, Lauren's family and husband were all 439 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: desperately worried about her. She said she stopped eating, she 440 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: wasn't sleeping much. She lost interest and pleasure in everything. 441 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: She told police that it was taking her ages to 442 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: do simple tasks. These are all symptoms of depression. During 443 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: that week in Timadoo, everything looked bleak to Lauren. There 444 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: was a power cut, just like there've been in South Africa. 445 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: She thought the children at Leonaie's school looked sad and unkempt, 446 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: and of course they weren't. They were just normal little 447 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: children having fun. Their house was small, the weather was hold, 448 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: the rental market was terrible. When you're depressed, everything looks terrible. 449 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: It is so important to understand this. The day the 450 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: girls died, Lauren was triggered by the request for more 451 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: information about her and Carla's health by Immigration New Zealand. 452 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: Her stress was exacerbated later when she was at the 453 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: park with Graham and the children, and some teenage girls 454 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: told her that a man had been there taking photos 455 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 1: of them. Two He said, at this stage, Lauren was 456 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 1: so unwell she thought New Zealand was not safe, and 457 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: her application for a visa was hopeless. By the time 458 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: these two things happened, Lauren was so deep into her depression, 459 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: removed from reality, that she decided to die and take 460 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: her daughters with her. If you find that Lauren's mind 461 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: was disturbed at the time this happened due to postpartum depression, 462 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: then this is not murder, it's infanticide. And if she 463 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: didn't know what she was doing was morally wrong that night, 464 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: then she's not guilty of murder or infanticide. That is insanity. 465 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: Lauren's mother, Wendy Fawkes, was the first offense witness called. 466 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: She'd been in court every day during the trial, supported 467 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: by her husband, Malcolm and another relative. She spoke about 468 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: how dia Lauren's health appeared before she left for New Zealand. 469 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: She said Lauren was absent and she was worried a 470 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: breakdown was imminent. Wendy said there were changes in Lauren, 471 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: especially in the last couple of weeks. She stopped communicating. 472 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: She was very flat. I was extremely worried about her. 473 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: I've never seen Lauren in such a bad mental state. 474 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: Lauren became more distant in her messages to me. She 475 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: told me how broken she is. When Dy admitted to 476 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: the court, she had significant reservations about Lauren and Graham 477 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: moving to New Zealand. She said, neither of them had 478 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: been here before. I was worried they would lose their 479 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: support networks. I raise this with them, the realities of emigrating. 480 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: But once Lauren has made up her mind, you can't 481 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: tell her what to do. I said to Graham, I 482 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: was worried about Lauren. She'd lost a lot of weight, 483 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: she was absent. Things got worse as the departure date neared. 484 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: Lauren wasn't communicating her mother said. I said to Graham 485 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: that I was really worried, and he said, Mum, everything's 486 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: going to be okay, but if we have one more 487 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: bump in the road, I'm going to stop at all. 488 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: The last time I saw them was the night before 489 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: they flew out. We didn't even go inside. We just 490 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: went to say goodbye. The children stilled on the upstairs 491 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: balcony and waved. Lauren came and gave me a hug. 492 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: She was very distant. She seemed out of it. Disconnected. 493 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: She seemed frail. I didn't realize Lauren was suicidal. Despite 494 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: her concerns and knowing about at least one episode where 495 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: Lauren revealed thoughts of harming the kids, Wendy never saw 496 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: anything to make her worry about the children. Their safety 497 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: was her priority. She absolutely loved them, she said of 498 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: her daughter. Another family member told the jury it was 499 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: clear Lauren was not coping and the lead up to 500 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: the move. Her name is suppressed permanently, but her evidence 501 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: is not. She said she was speaking less, She had 502 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: a much more sad demeanor, a big trigger for me, 503 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: a sign that she was really struggling. I came to 504 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: a home and she declined me coming in for coffee 505 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 1: with her. That was a first for me, a first 506 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: in our relationship. That was when I really knew she 507 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: was struggling. She couldn't even speak to me. On the 508 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: thirty first of July twenty twenty one, a family gathering 509 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: was held to farewell Graham, Lauren and the kids. The 510 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: relative said Lauren was there, but not and very vacant 511 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: and quiet. I was very worried, she said. The day 512 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: before the girls were killed, the woman received a photo 513 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: in a group chat of Lauren with Leone on her 514 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: first day of school. She said the photo was shocking. 515 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: Lauren had lost more weight from her already painfully thin frame. 516 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: She was completely drowning in a tracksuit top that would 517 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: usually fit. She told the court it was by far 518 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: the worst I have ever seen her. She looked gray, 519 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: She looked like she couldn't even focus. At the end 520 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: of the second week of the trial, the first expert 521 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: witness was called. The Crown had two, the defense had three. 522 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: Like with the general evidence, the experts spoke at length 523 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: about their assessments of Lauren before giving their final opinion. 524 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: Did she have a defense of insanity oron fanticide or 525 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: should she be held criminally responsible for her actions. Each 526 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: expert spent two or more full days in court. Again, 527 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: it's simply not possible to take you through every line 528 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: of this evidence. It was also extremely repetitive at times, 529 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, But I'll run you through a 530 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: summary of what Lauren told each expert and their assessment 531 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: of her. The first Crown witness was doctor Eric Monasterio, 532 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: a consultant forensic psychiatrist with almost thirty years of experience 533 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: as a specialist assessor. He is the former clinical director 534 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: and Director of Mental Health Services for the Canterbury Regional 535 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: Forensic Service, and his experience in hundreds of homicides, including 536 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: specific insanity and infanticide cases. Monasterio interviewed Lauren four times, 537 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: nine hours in total, as soon as she was well 538 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: enough after the children died. Lauren told him about the 539 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: hours before she killed the girls, saying she felt like 540 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: a failed mother, like a spring getting tighter, and that 541 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: she was going to do something. She said, I didn't 542 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: feel like myself. I couldn't see myself going through another day. 543 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: All I wanted was some quiet. I want this to stop. 544 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: I didn't want to feel like a bad parent anymore. 545 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: Lauren told Monasterio that she had not planned a suicide 546 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: method until after she killed her daughters. She felt deeply depressed, despondent, hopeless, 547 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: and pessimistic, the worst she had felt in her entire life. 548 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: Monasterio's final conclusion was that there was no doubt Lauren 549 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: had a mental illness, but it wasn't severe enough for 550 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: her to have a defense of insanity or infanticide. Further, 551 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: he found there was no evidence of an altruistic motive. 552 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: It was more likely Lauren killed the girls out of 553 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: anger and frustration. He said she systematically strangled the children 554 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: and seemingly methodically checked for vital signs before resorting to 555 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: smothering them until they were dead. The alleged offenses are 556 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: unlikely to have been impulsive, in my opinion, as a 557 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: defendant maintained awareness and behaves systematically. There is no evidence 558 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: she was in an automatic state or that she didn't 559 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: understand the nature and qualities of her actions at the 560 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: material time. Monasterio also said in his opinion, giving Lauren 561 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: had battled depression since she was fifteen, she could not 562 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: claim her disease of the mind was connected to childbirth 563 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: that removed and fanticided as a defense. Monasterio told the 564 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: court that Lauren's story changed between his first and fourth 565 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: interviews with her. Initially, she admitted to killing the girls 566 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: with no clear plan on how she would commit suicide afterwards, 567 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: but later she claimed she killed them as part of 568 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: her own suicide. Monasterio said she reported that she realized 569 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: she committed the offenses to protect my children. She reported, 570 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 1: I couldn't leave them behind, they would suffer too much. 571 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: I was very, very sick. I have never been that depressed. 572 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: She was convinced her children would not be able to 573 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: cope and would suffer too much if she committed suicide 574 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: and left them behind. The second Crown expert was doctor 575 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: Simon mccleevey, a forensic psychiatrist at Hilmarton Hospital. She first 576 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: interviewed Lauren six days after the girls died. She, like Monasterio, said, 577 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: while there was no question Lauren had a disease of 578 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: the mind, there simply was not any evidence of insanity. 579 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 1: She concluded, it remains my opinion that the defendant's disease 580 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: of the mind did not seriously impair her reality testing 581 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: ability and capacities. I'm of the opinion that this is 582 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: a tragic case where a mentally disordered woman with a 583 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: vulnerable person killed her children in the context which she 584 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: perceived to be beyond her limited capacity to manage stress 585 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: in addition to underlying mental illness. Mcleevey also told the 586 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 1: jury that while she initially noted the killings were impulsive, 587 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: her opinion had since changed and she believed now though 588 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: were possibly premeditated. She said the fact that Lauren had 589 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: carried out Google searches about overdosing her children was compelling. 590 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: Paired with Lauren's earlier admissions she'd thought of hurting or 591 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: killing the girls, she felt there could have been a 592 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: degree of planning. She said she had a very clearly 593 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: informed intention to harm the children. There was more than 594 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: idiation that was planning. There was consideration for specific means 595 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: and methods. There was a loss of control to act 596 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: on the thoughts. She snapped. There was an isolated incident 597 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: in which there was a loss of control. The defendant 598 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: was not rendered incapable of understanding moral wrongfulness at the 599 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: time she killed her children. I do believe she had 600 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: the capacity to make the decisions. Her capacity was not 601 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: grossly impaired. The first expert witness for the defense was 602 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: doctor Susan Hatters Friedman, a forensic and reproductive psychiatrist. She 603 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: traveled to New Zealand from the US to give evidence. 604 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: Hattis Friedman was described by the defense as a world 605 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: renowned expert on how to carry out psychiatric evaluations of 606 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: mothers who have killed their children. They told the jury 607 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: she had also published extensively on philiside. She spent ten 608 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: hours interviewing Lauren across four days. During that Lauren admitted 609 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,919 Speaker 1: she frequently had thoughts and images in her head about 610 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,479 Speaker 1: killing her children before she actually did it. The first time, 611 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: she had a feeling but not a plan. The second time, 612 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: not long before the move to Timbdoo, was more intense. 613 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,439 Speaker 1: She told the expert, an image flashed into my head 614 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: of sedating the girls, putting them in a bath, cutting 615 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: their femeral arteries, and putting them to bed. Lauren was 616 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: horrified and went to tell Graham, saying she was scared 617 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: and felt that everything was unraveling. She said. He became angry, 618 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: telling her if anyone heard what she was saying, they 619 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: would lock her up and she would never see the 620 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: girls again. He told her put on your big girl 621 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: panties and to pull herself together for him and the children. 622 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: Soon after, Graham asked her if she wanted to be 623 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 1: taken to a psychiatric ward, and Lauren said no, as 624 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: she worried it would mess up the emigration plan. She 625 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 1: kept having thoughts of killing the children, of pushing them 626 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: in their beds to rest forever. When the family were 627 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: packing to leave South Africa, the children playing with a 628 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: packet of cable ties purchased to keep suitcases securely closed, 629 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: she had the thought this is another way children could 630 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: get hurt. She put the cable ties away, scared of 631 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: what she might do. Lauren told Hatter's freedman the thoughts 632 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: terrified her, but she didn't tell Graham due to his 633 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: angry reaction. Earlier, Hatter's Freedman gave fascinating evidence about philicide 634 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: and what drove parents to kill their children. In Lauren's case, 635 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: she concluded it was a situation of a parent killing 636 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: out of love rather than out of anger or hate. 637 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: She said she had been severely depressed and had developed 638 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 1: psychotic thinking. She attempted to kill herself. She viewed the 639 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: world as dangerous for her children to grow up in. 640 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 1: She saw a joint suicide and philicide as a way 641 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: out of this for her beloved children and herself. She 642 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: thought that she was getting her children to safety. In 643 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: her opinion, Lauren was laboring under a disease of the 644 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: mind to such an extent that it rendered her incapable 645 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: of knowing the act was morally wrong. She thought that 646 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: children would be better off in heaven because she was 647 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: the worst wife and mother. At the time of the 648 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: alleged defending her, depression had significantly worsened and she had 649 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: developed psychotic features, becoming out of touch with reality. She 650 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: conceptualized that killing the children was the right thing to do. 651 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: She described circumstances consistent with an altruistic motive for the 652 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: murder of her children. It is further my opinion that 653 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: at the time of her alleged defending, the balance of 654 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,760 Speaker 1: her mind was disturbed by a reason of the disorder 655 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: of consequence upon childbirth. Specifically, she had been suffering from 656 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 1: a severe depression, which was closely tied to her infertility, pregnancy, loss, postpartum, 657 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: and parenting. Forensic psychiatrist Justin Barry Walsh said it was 658 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: clear to him Lauren's fatal actions were motivated by her 659 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: severe and increasing depression. He refuted claims made by other 660 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 1: experts that Lauren killed her children out of anger. He said, 661 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: this woman was so depressed she decided she had to die, 662 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: and she decided she had to take the children with her. 663 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: That is the only plausible explanation as to why she 664 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: did what she did. It's tragically easier to kill your 665 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 1: children than yourself. This was a deliberate, methodical, ghastly series 666 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: of events where she didn't just kill one of her children, 667 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: She killed all three of her children, one after the other. 668 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: That is not consistent with someone who's just angry. It 669 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 1: doesn't get close. In my view, he believed Lauren's depression 670 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 1: was severe enough at the time of the offending to 671 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: support defenses of both insanity and infanticide. She didn't just 672 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: slash out in an appalling methodical way she killed all 673 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 1: three children. This woman was depressed, and she was getting 674 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 1: more depressed. And as she got more depressed, she got 675 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: to a position where she couldn't see any way of 676 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: going on. She got to a position where she decided 677 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: she had to suicide. She also decided that her children 678 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 1: will be bare off dead, and it was that apparent 679 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: logic that drove her to commit this act. In my view, 680 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: it was more than likely because of her depression that 681 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: she acted in the way she did. Barry Walsh told 682 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: the court that if he had seen Lauren on the 683 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: day of the alleged murders, taken her history and considered 684 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: her lack of support in New Zealand, he would have 685 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: admitted her to a psychiatric ward, he said, and if 686 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: she declined treatment, I would have thought she readily met 687 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: the criteria for compulsory treatment under the Mental Health Act. 688 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: Her motive for killing the children was part of her 689 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: suicidal thinking. She was in the grips of rapidly worsening depression. 690 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,320 Speaker 1: Not only overwhelmed by viewing the world through a negative lens, 691 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: she believed killing the children was morally correct at the time. 692 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: In that mental state, she was unable to reason as 693 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: to the moral wrongfulness of her actions, and beyond that 694 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: would seem to believe that her actions were morally correct. 695 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: The weight of evidence is sufficient to say sustain the 696 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: defense that missus Dickinson was not guilty by reason of insanity. 697 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: She could not see a way out of it. Killing 698 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: the children felt right. Barry Walsh said in establishing Lauren's 699 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: motivation for the killings, a critical piece of evidence was 700 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,840 Speaker 1: what actually happened. He said, this is a woman with 701 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: no history of previous offending, who had children through IVF, 702 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: who comes to New Zealand and kills the three of 703 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: them in a sustained and deliberate way over twenty minutes 704 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 1: to half an hour. That is an unusual act. And 705 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,760 Speaker 1: then of itself then later on the history research shows 706 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 1: that in these rare events, often these women may be 707 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,720 Speaker 1: depressed and that depression may be central to the actions 708 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: at the time she was depressed. That in itself is enough. 709 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: There is a clear exis between her depression and her 710 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 1: actions at the time. It is my conclusion that there 711 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: was a connection to childbirth. She was vulnerable to postpartum depression. 712 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 1: She'd had a press ovious postpartum depression. She did this 713 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: extraordinarily awful thing at a time where she was getting 714 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: more and more depressed. Forensic psychologist doctor Garzi Metwei was 715 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: the final of the expert witnesses to be called. Lauren 716 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: had told him she thought killing her little girls would 717 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: be a happy ending for everyone after the family made 718 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 1: the huge mistake of emigrating to New Zealand. She told 719 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: him her world was falling apart and she was unraveling, 720 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: and she was convinced death for her and her children 721 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: was the only way out of a helpless and hopeless situation. 722 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,240 Speaker 1: Metwe interviewed Lauren nine times for about twenty hours in total. 723 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: He concluded that both insanity and infanticide defenses were available 724 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: to her. While the killings were brutal, callous, determined and deliberate, 725 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: he felt Lauren could not be held criminally responsible. He 726 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 1: said I do not consider that her mental state at 727 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,399 Speaker 1: the time of the alleged defending precluded her from understanding 728 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 1: the nature and quality of the acts. To the contrary, 729 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: I consider that she was purposeful and deliberate throughout her 730 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,720 Speaker 1: offending and acted with full conscious awareness of her actions 731 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,240 Speaker 1: and with great determination to pursue her aims the killing 732 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: of her three young children. However, such was the severity 733 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: of her depressive illness and associated distorted thinking at the 734 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 1: time that ultimately she thought she and her children were 735 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: better off dead. It is my opinion that she did 736 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: not know that the alleged acts were morally wrong to 737 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: the commonly accepted standard of right and wrong. She has 738 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: a defense of insanity regarding in fanticide that was very 739 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: clear to Metwi. He said, Lauren's problems with depression in 740 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 1: the eleven year period leading up to killing her daughters 741 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: were very much embroiled in her fertility problems, losing her 742 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,800 Speaker 1: first child, anti natal anxiety, and then post natal depression 743 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: that remained chronic. Of all of the experts, Lauren was 744 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,880 Speaker 1: the most open with met Wei about the day she 745 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 1: killed her children. The demands for more information from Immigration 746 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: New Zealand was the straw that broke the camel's back. 747 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: She said she lay in bed for hours, feeling nauseous 748 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: and unable to move, feeling like her world was falling apart. 749 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 1: She said she began to have negative ruminations about her 750 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 1: and her family's futures and thought, I don't know how 751 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to live here. Is what she told Metwi. 752 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: Her words are read by an actor. 753 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 4: I was so out of control, trying to figure out 754 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 4: in my head how to get back to South Africa. 755 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:38,760 Speaker 4: My thoughts were so disorted, everything was unraveling. I didn't 756 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 4: want to hurt my children. I wanted them to be 757 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 4: with me. I was feeling we made a huge mistake, 758 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 4: impossible to extricate from. I felt helpless and hopeless. 759 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: When Graham left the house at seven pm, Lauren said 760 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: she had no plan to kill the children or herself. However, 761 00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: the thoughts in her head about hurting the kids were 762 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: relentless and there was so much noise. Minutes later, Carla 763 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 1: threw a tantrum and started to bite Lauren's clothing. She 764 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: said she got tunnel vision and decided she could not 765 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: live another day. She told met Wei she was totally 766 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: out of control and finished She said, I felt. 767 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 4: Like I was going to explode. I wanted everything to end. 768 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,800 Speaker 4: Everything was failing. 769 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 1: Lauren gathered the girls in the bedroom to contain them, 770 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: as she didn't want to be running round after them, 771 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: she explained. After she killed the girls, she picked them 772 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 1: up and put them in their beds and tucked them 773 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: in with their blankets how they always slept. She explained 774 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 1: that she covered the little girls so she didn't have 775 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,319 Speaker 1: to see their faces. She told met Wi. 776 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 4: I loved them. I wanted to tuck them in one 777 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 4: last time. 778 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 1: She was drenched in sweat and shaking. She changed from 779 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,280 Speaker 1: her clothes into her pajamas and began trying to difffferent 780 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: ways to end her life. 781 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,759 Speaker 4: She said, I didn't want to leave them without a mum. 782 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 4: I loved them too much. The last thing I remember 783 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 4: doing is lying down with Liane. I was just glad 784 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,840 Speaker 4: it was all going to end. It was meant to 785 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 4: be a happy ending for everyone, but it's not a 786 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 4: happy ending. 787 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: On August eleven, twenty twenty three, the Crown and defense 788 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,600 Speaker 1: delivered their final statements to the jury. Prosecutor Andrew McCrae, 789 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,359 Speaker 1: so the crown case was sim Lauren Dickerson murdered her 790 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,080 Speaker 1: three little girls out of anger and her need for 791 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,360 Speaker 1: control over her family. She knew what she was doing 792 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: and the consequences, and she didn't contemplate stopping. And while 793 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,960 Speaker 1: she was significantly unwell with depression, her condition was not 794 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: bad enough for her to have a defense of insanity 795 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: or infanticide. 796 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 5: He said. 797 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 1: Undoubtedly the depression affected her decision making at that moment, 798 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,240 Speaker 1: but not to such a degree that she was unable 799 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 1: to understand her actions were morally wrong. She ought to 800 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,600 Speaker 1: still be held fully responsible for what she's done. She 801 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: wasn't so unwell she has a medical defense available to her. 802 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: On the contrary, her actions are explained by two primary drivers, 803 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 1: her anger at her children's behavior and her need for 804 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 1: control in that isolated moment. There was a loss of 805 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,239 Speaker 1: control in the context of the situation she was in. 806 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: Once she started doing what she was doing to the girls, 807 00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: there was no turning back. McCray said it was also 808 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: crucial for the jury to look at Lauren's credibility. He 809 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 1: said what she told police and the first psychiatric experts 810 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 1: to assess her was the truth, and later accounts were 811 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 1: effectively her attempting to rationalize her actions. Mccrazy Dickinson's accounts 812 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: to clinicians and five experts, two for the Crown and 813 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 1: three for the defense, were inconsistent. He said, it shifts, 814 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,440 Speaker 1: it changes, it evolves. Her accounts did not indicate that 815 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,359 Speaker 1: this was done out of love, or that she did 816 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: this because it was in their best interest. Her action 817 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,640 Speaker 1: was very much done in a moment of anger. Her 818 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 1: account varies so much because of the treatment provided to 819 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: her and her very natural desire to rationalize this very 820 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 1: terrible act. McCrae said any suggestion of an altruistic motive 821 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: was an idea introduced to Lauren during her later psychiatric treatment. 822 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: He told the jury to be skeptical of Lauren's claims 823 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 1: she killed the girls because she didn't want to leave 824 00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: them behind. When she committed suicide, He said it was 825 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: an act done out of anger as a consequence of 826 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,759 Speaker 1: the children's behavior at the time. McCray was critical of 827 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,360 Speaker 1: the defense experts, saying they did not undertake robust testing 828 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:14,480 Speaker 1: of Lauren's account and ignored crucial information. Further, their assessments 829 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,880 Speaker 1: lacked rigor, and they did not test her account sufficiently 830 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,400 Speaker 1: and accepted it unchallenged. Overall, the defense experts did not 831 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,680 Speaker 1: consider information that was contrary to their theory on Lauren. 832 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,760 Speaker 1: Disregarding evidence that did not fit, McCray said, they didn't 833 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,960 Speaker 1: look hard enough. It is clear that anger is present. 834 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:38,160 Speaker 1: The Crown accept that missus Dickinson was unwell. What happened 835 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,080 Speaker 1: here was a perfect storm. She was subject to a 836 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,560 Speaker 1: new stressor that caused her to snap. Her anger is 837 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,439 Speaker 1: proven with her relationship with her children, seen over the year, 838 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,560 Speaker 1: in her text messages, in her police interview, and in 839 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,960 Speaker 1: her own interviews with the experts. The Crown say the 840 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,440 Speaker 1: defense experts were blinded by the defendant's explanation of altruism. 841 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: The Crown say the defense knew she was going to 842 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,360 Speaker 1: kill them, She knew the nature of the act, she 843 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: knew the consequence. McCrae said the jury would be satisfied 844 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,800 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt that Lauren had committed murder. He 845 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: suggested the most important piece of evidence was what Lauren 846 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: told police in her first interview. He said, it's the 847 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,919 Speaker 1: very first account, free of any influence. The Crown say 848 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,080 Speaker 1: it's the one you should take the most from. There 849 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,160 Speaker 1: can be no suggestion the content is wrong or misleading. 850 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,440 Speaker 1: The content describes anger towards the girls. It is the 851 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,719 Speaker 1: first account of why she did what she did. She 852 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,920 Speaker 1: must have known what she was doing was morally wrong. 853 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 1: If she was worried about the possibility of discovery, she 854 00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,319 Speaker 1: made efforts to clean up the scene. She's understanding what 855 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 1: she's doing. You will be drawn to the inevitable conclusion 856 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,360 Speaker 1: that she knew what she was doing was morally wrong, 857 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,399 Speaker 1: and the defense of insanity is not available to her. 858 00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,320 Speaker 1: And as difficult as this is, you will find herty 859 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,719 Speaker 1: of murder. It is clear that anger is the significant 860 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 1: motivator in this case. Lauren's lawyer, Karen Beaton's closing address 861 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 1: was powerful. She explained again how Lauren killed her little 862 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,840 Speaker 1: girls one by one, then tucked them into bed with 863 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,840 Speaker 1: their soft toy sheep and blankets, and told them that 864 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,919 Speaker 1: she loved them for the very last time. The act 865 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: was horrific and shocking, but not murder. Rather, they were 866 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,000 Speaker 1: the actions of a deeply unwell woman who could not 867 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,439 Speaker 1: bear to live another day and decided to die, and 868 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,520 Speaker 1: to protect her children, decided to take them with her. 869 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,719 Speaker 1: Betan said, her beautiful girls, whom she loved so much. 870 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,800 Speaker 1: The deaths don't have anything to do with anger or resentment, 871 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,480 Speaker 1: and they have everything to do with what was a 872 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: severe mental illness. This is the very kind of case 873 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,920 Speaker 1: that the law of infanticide was designed for. The Crown 874 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: told you that Lauren was stressed, that the anger bubbled 875 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,480 Speaker 1: over from many aspects of her life, and that she 876 00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: was resentful of the kids and how she stood in 877 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,239 Speaker 1: the way of a relationship with her husband, and that's 878 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,520 Speaker 1: why she killed them. And you were told by the 879 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,400 Speaker 1: Crown that this is about anger and about control, and 880 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 1: not about a medical defense, not about mental illness. But 881 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: mothers don't kill their children the way Lauren did just 882 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:20,040 Speaker 1: because they're angry or resentful or stressed. We've all been angry, resentful, 883 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 1: stressed and anxious ourselves. They're normal human emotions and responses. 884 00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,560 Speaker 1: But we haven't gone and done anything remotely like what 885 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 1: Lauren did, let alone in such a violent and harrowing way. 886 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,760 Speaker 1: She was experiencing a major episode of depression with such 887 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 1: severity that not only did she think she had to 888 00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,799 Speaker 1: kill herself, but she had to take her girls with her. 889 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: Beaton said, any suggestion Lauren killed her children in anger 890 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:50,440 Speaker 1: and resentment is just nonsense. She said, Lauren Dickerson was 891 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,759 Speaker 1: a woman who wanted to give her children the very 892 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,719 Speaker 1: best in life that she could. Thoughts of harming your 893 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,719 Speaker 1: children are very much a symptom of postpartum depression and suicide, 894 00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,600 Speaker 1: and anes and fanticide are risks of postpartum depression, and 895 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,840 Speaker 1: mothers who are suicidal are at higher risk of infanticide. 896 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 1: She was severely unwell by the sixteenth of September twenty 897 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,440 Speaker 1: twenty one, and the people close to Lauren knew, but 898 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,760 Speaker 1: they didn't recognize it for what it was. They thought 899 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,880 Speaker 1: pushing through was the answer, that coming to New Zealand 900 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,560 Speaker 1: would reduce the stress on Lauren and things would get better. 901 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,400 Speaker 1: But they didn't. Coming to New Zealand did not fix 902 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,440 Speaker 1: anything for Lauren. Beaten was adamant the killing of the 903 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: girls was altruistic in motive and refuted suggestions the concept 904 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,160 Speaker 1: was introduced to her client and used to create a defense. 905 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,080 Speaker 1: She said she viewed the world, including New Zealand, as 906 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,759 Speaker 1: dangerous for her children. She saw this phellicide suicide as 907 00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,919 Speaker 1: a way out for her and the children. She didn't 908 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,560 Speaker 1: want to leave the children behind, and she believed, in 909 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,520 Speaker 1: her depressed state also that her children were a burden 910 00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 1: on her husband, that they'd all be better off dead. 911 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: Of course this is isn't true, and it's completely awful, 912 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,960 Speaker 1: but Lauren Dickerson was so convinced of this. She was 913 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,359 Speaker 1: not someone who snapped in anger. This awful event never 914 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,719 Speaker 1: would have happened if Lauren Dickerson was not depressed, and 915 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,279 Speaker 1: if she'd been treated for her depression, things might have 916 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,800 Speaker 1: been very different. She decided to kill herself and also 917 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,200 Speaker 1: the girls, and I suggest that's because she was so 918 00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,840 Speaker 1: delusional and so disordered in her thinking, but in her mind, 919 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,720 Speaker 1: it was the morally right thing to do. Finally, Lauren 920 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,560 Speaker 1: Dickison never abused her children, never neglected them. She was 921 00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 1: a loving mother. She was severely depressed, so depressed she 922 00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 1: was suicidal and thought it was right to kill her children. 923 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,959 Speaker 1: She tucked them into bed, she told them she loved 924 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,440 Speaker 1: them one last time. The closing addresses were finished by 925 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,160 Speaker 1: five pm on Friday, August eleven, twenty twenty three. The 926 00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,399 Speaker 1: jury was sent home for the weekend, and at ten 927 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,400 Speaker 1: am on Monday, Justice cam and Manda gave his summary 928 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: of the case. He explained in extensive detail what the 929 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,320 Speaker 1: jury had to decide after assessing all of the evidence 930 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: they had heard over five weeks, they had four options 931 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,959 Speaker 1: for a verdict. One Lauren was guilty of murder. Two 932 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,040 Speaker 1: Lauren was guilty of the lesser alternative charge of infanticide. 933 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,880 Speaker 1: Three the act of murder was proven, but Lauren was 934 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,919 Speaker 1: not guilty by reason of insanity. And four the act 935 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,080 Speaker 1: of infanticide was proven but Lauren was not guilty by 936 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,759 Speaker 1: reason of insanity. At one fifty five p m. The 937 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,480 Speaker 1: jury was sent to begin deliberating. When that happens, the 938 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,560 Speaker 1: rest of the courtroom enters a state of limbo. The 939 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,480 Speaker 1: defendant is taken to a holding sale, the judge goes 940 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: to their chambers. The lawyers retreat to private rooms within 941 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,879 Speaker 1: the court house. They're expected to remain close so when 942 00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,160 Speaker 1: the jury have a question or a verdict, they can 943 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: get back to the courtroom quickly. The only people left 944 00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,080 Speaker 1: in the courtroom are the registrar, the court staff for 945 00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,040 Speaker 1: who oversees the jury, and the media. It's a strange 946 00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,279 Speaker 1: time waiting for a verdict. In some courts, the jury 947 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,000 Speaker 1: knock on a door. In Lawren's case, they used a 948 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,239 Speaker 1: doorbell style system. The energy in the courtroom is one 949 00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:16,160 Speaker 1: of nervous, anticipation and often impatience. Every hour that passes 950 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:20,080 Speaker 1: that energy becomes more palpable. The only time you can 951 00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,440 Speaker 1: really relax is when the jury take a break from 952 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,480 Speaker 1: deliberations for lunch or walk outside, which is supervised by 953 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,840 Speaker 1: the court staffer, and at the end of the day 954 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,120 Speaker 1: when they're sent home. There's no way of predicting how 955 00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:36,439 Speaker 1: long a jury can take. The Dickerson jury deliberated until 956 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,280 Speaker 1: five pm on the first day, then they went home. 957 00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:44,120 Speaker 1: They deliberated all of the next day. On the third day, 958 00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,200 Speaker 1: shortly before three pm, the jury bell rang. Within a 959 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,520 Speaker 1: few minutes, everyone was back in court and the jury 960 00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,000 Speaker 1: were let in. They didn't have a verdict, but a question. 961 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,480 Speaker 1: They told Justice Manda they could not reach a unanimous verdict, 962 00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,959 Speaker 1: that they were close, but they couldn't all agree. Justice 963 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,919 Speaker 1: Smander advised he would accept a majority verdict, meaning if 964 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,720 Speaker 1: all but one of them agreed, their decision would stand. 965 00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:13,680 Speaker 1: The twelve returned to the jury room, and just two 966 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:18,240 Speaker 1: or three minutes later, the bell rang again. A verdict 967 00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,840 Speaker 1: had been reached. Everyone reassembled in the courtroom, including Lauren's parents. 968 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,080 Speaker 1: Court staff placed extra tissues out along the jury bench, 969 00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,640 Speaker 1: Lauren's mother sat in the front row of the public gallery, crying. 970 00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: Justice Mander directed the registrar to put each charge to 971 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,920 Speaker 1: the jury and ask if they found Lauren guilty or 972 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,760 Speaker 1: not guilty for the murder of Leonae. The four person 973 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:46,080 Speaker 1: replied guilty for the murder of Carla, guilty for the 974 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:51,720 Speaker 1: murder of Maya guilty. Lauren began to cry. Her lawyers 975 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:56,240 Speaker 1: were clearly stunned, winded almost by the verdict. The prosecutor 976 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,760 Speaker 1: sat in front of them, digesting the words they heard. 977 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,680 Speaker 1: Ausmanda thanked the jury for their service. He said, you've 978 00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,200 Speaker 1: had to deal with distressing evidence, and I acknowledge that 979 00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,120 Speaker 1: this trial has likely taken a toll on you personally. 980 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: He sent the jury home for the last time, then 981 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 1: turned to his next task, arranging sentencing for the newly 982 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:21,520 Speaker 1: convicted triple murderer. Justice Manda requested a number of specialist 983 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,440 Speaker 1: reports about Lauren's mental health and psychiatric care. He acknowledged 984 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,080 Speaker 1: that commissioning and completing the reports would be a lengthy 985 00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:31,280 Speaker 1: process and that both terms of lawyers would need significant 986 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,760 Speaker 1: time to prepare their own submissions. He reminded Lauren back 987 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,600 Speaker 1: to the Secure Mental Health unit to await her final 988 00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:42,640 Speaker 1: court date. After Lauren was taken away, her lawyers broke 989 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:47,280 Speaker 1: down in tears. The prosecutors offered words of comfort. While 990 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,960 Speaker 1: their prosecution was successful, they and everyone else in court 991 00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:55,120 Speaker 1: agreed there were no winners. That day, outside court, Detective 992 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,080 Speaker 1: Inspector Scott Anderson spoke to The Herald and other media. 993 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,360 Speaker 1: He said, words cannot begin to express the tragic circumstances 994 01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,280 Speaker 1: of this investigation. Police extend our deepest sympathies to the 995 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,280 Speaker 1: families who will never get to see Leone Meyer and 996 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Karla grow up and live their lives. I would like 997 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,480 Speaker 1: to acknowledge the Dickerson and Fawkes families who have assisted 998 01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,040 Speaker 1: us throughout our investigation. I also want to take this 999 01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 1: opportunity to acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the 1000 01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:27,880 Speaker 1: investigation team. This has been a challenging and complex investigation. 1001 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Right from attending the scene on the night to the 1002 01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,400 Speaker 1: completion of the trial, and through it all of our 1003 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,960 Speaker 1: staff have worked diligently with professionalism and empathy to bring 1004 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,960 Speaker 1: this matter to its conclusion. Our heartfelt thanks also to 1005 01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,720 Speaker 1: the Timudu community and partner agencies who have continued to 1006 01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:49,280 Speaker 1: provide support to the families. During this case, Lauren's parents, 1007 01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:53,440 Speaker 1: through her lawyers, also made a statement. They said, postpartum 1008 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,520 Speaker 1: depression is a terrible thing, as has been shown by 1009 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,919 Speaker 1: what happened to our family. This was not our daughter, 1010 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:04,520 Speaker 1: but a debilitating mental illness which resulted in an awful tragedy, 1011 01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,800 Speaker 1: the details of which you and are well aware. Our 1012 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,959 Speaker 1: beloved Leonae, Khala and Maya were taken from this life 1013 01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,400 Speaker 1: to another as a result of this crippling disease. There 1014 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,720 Speaker 1: are no winners in this tragedy. We would like to 1015 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,160 Speaker 1: encourage families and individuals around the world to be aware 1016 01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,440 Speaker 1: of the symptoms of postpartum depression as early as possible, 1017 01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,920 Speaker 1: both for yourselves as well as close family and friends 1018 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,920 Speaker 1: around you. If treated early and managed correctly, people can 1019 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:37,320 Speaker 1: experience a full recovery. The person experiencing depression and those 1020 01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,600 Speaker 1: closer to them may not be able to recognize the 1021 01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:44,240 Speaker 1: signs or how serious postpartum depression can become. Almost a 1022 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,880 Speaker 1: year passed before Lauren's sentencing went ahead. A number of 1023 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,680 Speaker 1: dates were set but vacated due to various reports not 1024 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:55,360 Speaker 1: being complete or more expert input being sought. On June 1025 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,120 Speaker 1: twenty sixth, twenty twenty four, Lauren was back in the 1026 01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,840 Speaker 1: High Court at christ Church before Justice Amanda, Her parents 1027 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,600 Speaker 1: and another relative returned to christ Church to attend and 1028 01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,760 Speaker 1: support her. Graham and his family stayed home, attending the 1029 01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,480 Speaker 1: hearing by audio visual link. The hearing began with the 1030 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:16,440 Speaker 1: reading of victim impact statements. The Dickinson family statements were 1031 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:21,080 Speaker 1: read by a support person. Graham's was first. Here is 1032 01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:22,400 Speaker 1: part of what he wrote. 1033 01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,360 Speaker 6: Losing all three lovely girls has had an immense impact 1034 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,640 Speaker 6: on my life, Lauren's life, and the lives of our 1035 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,520 Speaker 6: family members and friends. Due to the attention and interest 1036 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,560 Speaker 6: in the media as well as various social media platforms, 1037 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,080 Speaker 6: this tragedy has impacted people around the world. People all 1038 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,760 Speaker 6: over the world were in shock and disbelief and for 1039 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,840 Speaker 6: many life will never be the same. After the sixteenth 1040 01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:51,600 Speaker 6: of September twenty twenty one, my life as I knew 1041 01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,240 Speaker 6: it immediately ground. 1042 01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 5: To a halt. 1043 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,680 Speaker 6: This included my life and role as a husband and father. 1044 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:03,040 Speaker 6: It also included my prospects as an orthopedic surgeon in 1045 01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,160 Speaker 6: Ti Marie, New Zealand, and building a life of my family, 1046 01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,800 Speaker 6: which we were much looking forward to. We have planned 1047 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,400 Speaker 6: this immigration and thought about all the related life changes 1048 01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:18,040 Speaker 6: and sacrifices, but also the possibilities and opportunities not just 1049 01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:22,240 Speaker 6: for ourselves but also for our children. We were aware 1050 01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,080 Speaker 6: of what we were giving up and leaving behind in 1051 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,680 Speaker 6: South Africa, but after a lot of consideration and clear thinking, 1052 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,480 Speaker 6: we picked up our lives and moved to New Zealand. 1053 01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,520 Speaker 6: I have been grieving the loss of my three daughters 1054 01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,680 Speaker 6: ever since. I have witnessed my family, as well as 1055 01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:43,560 Speaker 6: laurence family, grieving our loss, all individually going through various 1056 01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:47,400 Speaker 6: stages of grief and disbelief. Never could we have imagined 1057 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,440 Speaker 6: having to deal and get through a situation like this. 1058 01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,760 Speaker 6: It is obvious that this tragedy has changed my life forever, 1059 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,280 Speaker 6: as well as the lives of many other people. With 1060 01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,000 Speaker 6: regards to my own life, I have not only lost 1061 01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,920 Speaker 6: my life with my children, but also my life with 1062 01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,960 Speaker 6: my wife Lauren. I will not see them turning into 1063 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,480 Speaker 6: beautiful young women and subsequently finding their own husbands and 1064 01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,240 Speaker 6: starting their own families, and of course all prospects of 1065 01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,040 Speaker 6: having grandchildren of my own is. 1066 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,080 Speaker 5: Also lost forever. 1067 01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:20,520 Speaker 6: I have had to make peace with this and with 1068 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,000 Speaker 6: the help of a loving family and friends, and a 1069 01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,080 Speaker 6: lot of prayers from amazing people, I have managed to 1070 01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,200 Speaker 6: accept my current situation and position in life. I have 1071 01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,920 Speaker 6: no doubt that Lauren Dickison had a rapid deterioration in 1072 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,680 Speaker 6: her mental health in the days leading up to this event. 1073 01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,280 Speaker 6: She will have to live with the knowledge of what 1074 01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,480 Speaker 6: she has done for the rest of her life. Her 1075 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,080 Speaker 6: punishment is already severe and her life will never be 1076 01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,360 Speaker 6: the same. I hold no unforgiveness or anger towards Lauren. 1077 01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,240 Speaker 6: I wish her the best in terms of her health 1078 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,200 Speaker 6: and well being. My hope is for her to have 1079 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,840 Speaker 6: the best in terms of treatment and care physically and me. 1080 01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:04,760 Speaker 6: Of course, the real victims are Lean, Karla and Maya. 1081 01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:08,520 Speaker 6: We will think of them every day, missed them always, 1082 01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,680 Speaker 6: and love them forever until we see them again. 1083 01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,000 Speaker 1: At the end of his statement, Graham wished his wife 1084 01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,720 Speaker 1: the best and said he hopes she received the best 1085 01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,880 Speaker 1: care for her mental health possible. He said his biggest 1086 01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,360 Speaker 1: fear was that she would self harm and hoped she 1087 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:26,240 Speaker 1: had a safe space to heal and recover in New Zealand. 1088 01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:30,200 Speaker 1: The statement from Graham's mother Betty was read next. 1089 01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,120 Speaker 6: But in all honesty, I don't have the words of 1090 01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,520 Speaker 6: vocabulary to accurately describe the pain this is brought on 1091 01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:39,880 Speaker 6: me and my family. I am a seventy eight year 1092 01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:43,520 Speaker 6: old grandmother who once had ted grandchildren and now have seven, 1093 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,840 Speaker 6: who once trusted someone, took someone into my home, loved 1094 01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,600 Speaker 6: someone who was now a convicted murderer. Some days it 1095 01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,520 Speaker 6: feels simply unbelievable, like I'm living in some horror film 1096 01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,280 Speaker 6: that I won't be able to wake up from. But 1097 01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,400 Speaker 6: it's true and now part of my day to day reality, 1098 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,400 Speaker 6: and there is no escaping the pain. 1099 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:08,720 Speaker 5: It cuts through me every day. 1100 01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,280 Speaker 6: It numbs me. It makes me want to cruel under 1101 01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,640 Speaker 6: the covers and never come out again. Life won't be 1102 01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,880 Speaker 6: the same again. The pain won't go away, but the 1103 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,360 Speaker 6: sun will rise again tomorrow and the world will get 1104 01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,800 Speaker 6: on with the business of another day, and. 1105 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:24,240 Speaker 5: So will I. 1106 01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:30,040 Speaker 1: Graham's three sisters also wrote statements. Hermion said her heart 1107 01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:31,919 Speaker 1: was ripped out of her chest when the girls died, 1108 01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:34,480 Speaker 1: and she still could not make sense of what happened. 1109 01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,560 Speaker 1: She said the girls represented life and love and brought 1110 01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,960 Speaker 1: sunshine to the family. Now that family was shrouded in 1111 01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,040 Speaker 1: a dreadful sadness. We long for them every day they 1112 01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:48,240 Speaker 1: are gone far too soon, She said, We've lost a 1113 01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,600 Speaker 1: sister in law, one we thought loved us all, but 1114 01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,080 Speaker 1: through the messages that we read in court, I realized 1115 01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:56,120 Speaker 1: we didn't know her as much as we thought we did. 1116 01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,040 Speaker 1: We can only hope that the grief will ease sometime 1117 01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,720 Speaker 1: and are memories of the girls will never fade. Our 1118 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,760 Speaker 1: loss is not imaginable. Lauren was their mother. She was 1119 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,880 Speaker 1: supposed to love and care for them. Graham's second sister, Elizabeth, 1120 01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,120 Speaker 1: was scathing of Lauren cutting all ties with the woman. 1121 01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,960 Speaker 1: At the end of her statement, she said she often 1122 01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,040 Speaker 1: thought about the girl's final moments, how afraid they must 1123 01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,439 Speaker 1: have been, their disbelief at the betrayal by their own mother. 1124 01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,480 Speaker 1: She said, I lay there wondering what Lauren had done, 1125 01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,080 Speaker 1: images of their lifeless little bodies in my head, even 1126 01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:32,440 Speaker 1: though it hurt to imagine what they must be going through. 1127 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,200 Speaker 1: When the gruesome details of the murders came out in court, 1128 01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,960 Speaker 1: the family were shocked. Elizabeth said Lauren gave no consideration 1129 01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,800 Speaker 1: for the consequences of her actions, and she did not 1130 01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,360 Speaker 1: care about the pain and hurt she was causing. She 1131 01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:50,080 Speaker 1: took the lives of three innocent little babies who loved 1132 01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,480 Speaker 1: her and who trusted her to look after them, protect them. 1133 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,560 Speaker 1: They didn't choose her, She chose them, and then she 1134 01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,640 Speaker 1: chose to end at all. She finished wish by speaking 1135 01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,320 Speaker 1: directly to Lauren. She said, perhaps it's now time to 1136 01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,919 Speaker 1: draw a line. There isn't much more to be said. 1137 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,800 Speaker 1: What's done is done. I would urge you to focus 1138 01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,720 Speaker 1: on getting better, serve your time, and make plans for 1139 01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,080 Speaker 1: your life. After that, it's time to cut those strings 1140 01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:19,080 Speaker 1: and let Graham go. There is nothing that binds us. 1141 01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:24,200 Speaker 1: I forgive you, but for now it's time to say goodbye. 1142 01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,439 Speaker 1: Graham's third sister, Cecilia, came to New Zealand to support him. 1143 01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,680 Speaker 1: After the girls died, she revealed a private funeral was 1144 01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,599 Speaker 1: held and the children were cremated so their remains could 1145 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:40,400 Speaker 1: be taken home to South Africa. Cecilia said, the cremation 1146 01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:44,240 Speaker 1: just broke my heart. Our beautiful nieces were reduced to 1147 01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,760 Speaker 1: so little. There were difficult days. I heard my brother 1148 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,479 Speaker 1: cry in the shower, I saw him become quieter. There 1149 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:55,200 Speaker 1: were no words to describe the feeling of loss. It'd 1150 01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,400 Speaker 1: be nice to hear Lauren apologize for her actions. I 1151 01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,040 Speaker 1: do not feel hatred towards life Laren. I feel a 1152 01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:06,840 Speaker 1: deep disappointment and sadness. A close relative of Lauren spoke next. 1153 01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:09,519 Speaker 1: Her name has been permanently suppressed and we were not 1154 01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,960 Speaker 1: allowed to record her voice, but we could report her statement. 1155 01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:18,080 Speaker 1: She said, we love her unconditionally and always will. What 1156 01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,280 Speaker 1: happened that night could not have been at the hands 1157 01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,720 Speaker 1: of the Lauren that we all know so well. She 1158 01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,360 Speaker 1: was so nurturing over those three girls and loved them 1159 01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:28,720 Speaker 1: more than anything in this entire world. When we got 1160 01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,360 Speaker 1: the news, we thought of every other possible cause of death, 1161 01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:35,200 Speaker 1: a car accident, accidental poisoning, a home invasion, which is 1162 01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,800 Speaker 1: not uncommon in South Africa, anything other than Lauren playing 1163 01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,559 Speaker 1: a role, because that was not even an option in 1164 01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:45,240 Speaker 1: our minds. She said her family had suffered a staggering 1165 01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,080 Speaker 1: loss that would never be mitigated by Lauren receiving a 1166 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:52,200 Speaker 1: harsh sentence. She told the court to the contrary, the 1167 01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:55,160 Speaker 1: harsher the sentence that is imposed on Lauren, the greater 1168 01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:59,400 Speaker 1: our loss becomes. We've forgiven Lauren. We seek no retribution 1169 01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,320 Speaker 1: or penalty against her. She has already paid the highest 1170 01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,000 Speaker 1: price for her mental illness and she will continue to 1171 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:08,160 Speaker 1: pay the price for however long she lives. At times, 1172 01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,240 Speaker 1: we are still in disbelief that the girls are gone 1173 01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,400 Speaker 1: and that our loving Lauren, empathetic in all ways, could 1174 01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:17,800 Speaker 1: have done it. We regret not realizing the significance of 1175 01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,160 Speaker 1: Lauren's depression and that her postpartum depression lasted for years 1176 01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,400 Speaker 1: after the girl's birth. If only we'd known, we could 1177 01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:27,240 Speaker 1: have stepped in and supported her immediately tried to get 1178 01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,240 Speaker 1: her the help she needed. The woman then criticized a 1179 01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:34,160 Speaker 1: number of people and agencies. She was disappointed and angry 1180 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,080 Speaker 1: with Laurence doctor in South Africa, claiming he did not 1181 01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:40,600 Speaker 1: take proper care of her. She said, We're angry with 1182 01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:44,320 Speaker 1: the New Zealand government for such strict MiQ rules, even 1183 01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,720 Speaker 1: for families of five with small children who are used 1184 01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,639 Speaker 1: to running a round in South African gardens, having ample 1185 01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,519 Speaker 1: space to move around and run freely. We're angry that 1186 01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,720 Speaker 1: the New Zealand government insisted on a specialist appointment and 1187 01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,800 Speaker 1: letters for Lauren's mental health and Carla's cliff lip with 1188 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,040 Speaker 1: an a week of them arriving in a new country. 1189 01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,759 Speaker 1: If a country knew a person was struggling, surely support 1190 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,599 Speaker 1: structures rather than tech boxes, should have been put in place. 1191 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:13,240 Speaker 1: The woman's biggest loss was that of Lauren. She said. 1192 01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,559 Speaker 1: We miss her loving nature, the care that she showed 1193 01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,479 Speaker 1: to all those around her, the empathy she showed to 1194 01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,439 Speaker 1: other women. We believe the greatest victim in this whole 1195 01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,920 Speaker 1: situation is actually Lauren herself. We can confidently tell you 1196 01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,559 Speaker 1: how much she loved those three girls, and that she 1197 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,960 Speaker 1: could not have possibly been in her right mind when 1198 01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,240 Speaker 1: the incident occurred. She has told us on countless occasions 1199 01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,720 Speaker 1: and telephone conversations and emails that she wishes she could 1200 01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:40,920 Speaker 1: go back to that day and that things will be different. 1201 01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,160 Speaker 1: She misses the girls more than anyone in this world, 1202 01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,679 Speaker 1: and she's already endured so much. We do not feel 1203 01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,200 Speaker 1: that a harsh sentence will help in any way restore 1204 01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,160 Speaker 1: the hearts and souls of those affected, and if anything, 1205 01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:58,400 Speaker 1: it simply perpetuates the hurt and prolongs the grief. Lauren's father, 1206 01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:01,799 Speaker 1: Malcolm Fawkes, was last to space. He was also critical 1207 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,160 Speaker 1: of authorities involved in the immigration and others connected to 1208 01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,559 Speaker 1: the family. Here's what he read to Justice Manda at 1209 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:09,519 Speaker 1: the sentencing hearing. 1210 01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,360 Speaker 7: Naturally, our whole family was devastated by what happened to 1211 01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,960 Speaker 7: the three precious little girls and to our daughter Lauren. 1212 01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:22,920 Speaker 5: To have caused this whole tragic saga. We have forgiven 1213 01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:24,960 Speaker 5: her that are obviously is. 1214 01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:30,280 Speaker 7: Still struggling to understand the maternal mental health issues which 1215 01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:35,640 Speaker 7: caused this tragedy. It is extremely technical and complex for 1216 01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,439 Speaker 7: us as average people in the street. We are not 1217 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:45,439 Speaker 7: forensic psychiatrists nor psychologists. All we know is the simple 1218 01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,599 Speaker 7: statement nobody in their right. 1219 01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:50,479 Speaker 5: Mind would have done something like that. 1220 01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,960 Speaker 7: We are angry with ourselves for not recognizing the chronic 1221 01:12:55,120 --> 01:13:00,880 Speaker 7: mental health challenges Lauren had and for not getting the nesty. 1222 01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:01,000 Speaker 5: Helped for her. 1223 01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,639 Speaker 7: We did not know about her ideations of harming the children, 1224 01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:11,240 Speaker 7: a classical symptom of firstpartum depression. We did not know 1225 01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:16,480 Speaker 7: of the turmoil continually churning inside a lonely Lauren. 1226 01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:18,040 Speaker 5: While she put on a grave face. 1227 01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:23,240 Speaker 7: Especially as a medical doctor, we are disappointed that Lauren 1228 01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:27,800 Speaker 7: does not appear to have been correctly diagnosed, treated and 1229 01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:33,240 Speaker 7: managed in South Africa for her mental health problems. We 1230 01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:37,120 Speaker 7: are disappointed with the medical fraternity for a lion Lauren 1231 01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:44,719 Speaker 7: to have seventeen IVF treatments with our psychological counseling even 1232 01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,120 Speaker 7: though they could afford it, and because she wanted children 1233 01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:52,840 Speaker 7: so badly. We are disappointed with the Medical Association of 1234 01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,879 Speaker 7: South Africa. Why do they allow doctors to self medicate? 1235 01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,439 Speaker 7: We are disappointed with the Astan and New Zealand Medical Associations. 1236 01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:06,920 Speaker 7: Why did that take six months to approve grand certification 1237 01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:12,080 Speaker 7: as an author tedic specialist surgeon instead of the average 1238 01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:17,679 Speaker 7: and promised six weeks. We were disappointed with the government here. 1239 01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:22,400 Speaker 7: Why did you repose such inhuman m i Q requirements 1240 01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:28,320 Speaker 7: on essential service people and others in general who are 1241 01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,120 Speaker 7: saying that Lauren was left on her own the might 1242 01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:37,280 Speaker 7: of the terrible tragedy when the aviations remain about and 1243 01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:42,360 Speaker 7: that she was severely mentally ill. We are disappointed with 1244 01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:46,880 Speaker 7: the government Immigration ministry. Why did you insist on Lauren 1245 01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:51,400 Speaker 7: having to submit reports on her mental condition and Carl 1246 01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:55,880 Speaker 7: his clerk lip within a week of arriving. Why did 1247 01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:59,200 Speaker 7: you not proactively warn to Marou that a person with 1248 01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:04,280 Speaker 7: mental health challenges were approaching and set up appropriate care 1249 01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:08,320 Speaker 7: and support systems proactively to help her on arrival. 1250 01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:10,000 Speaker 5: We are upset with. 1251 01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:14,400 Speaker 7: The officials or individuals who released her name and children's 1252 01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:17,880 Speaker 7: name for the whole world to see the very next morning. 1253 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,799 Speaker 7: There should have been named suppression due to the age 1254 01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:23,080 Speaker 7: of the children at least. 1255 01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:25,080 Speaker 5: We are very upset that. 1256 01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:28,639 Speaker 7: The DVD of the interigation of Lauren, within a few 1257 01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:32,400 Speaker 7: hours of a discharge from hospital was allowed in court. 1258 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,960 Speaker 7: So the loss to us has been huge. It has 1259 01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:38,920 Speaker 7: left a big vacuum in our lives which cannot be 1260 01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:43,960 Speaker 7: filled completely by the other five little grandchildren children we 1261 01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,200 Speaker 7: have in South Africa. We are not saying that Lauren 1262 01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:51,519 Speaker 7: was totally blameless, but she has lost everything and also 1263 01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,120 Speaker 7: tried to take her own life. 1264 01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:54,320 Speaker 5: In the process. 1265 01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:58,479 Speaker 7: She will possibly and probably lose her husband as well. 1266 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,839 Speaker 7: She has already been punished in full by her disease 1267 01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:07,920 Speaker 7: and by herself. She has been punished enough already. She 1268 01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:12,880 Speaker 7: has lost everything as her husband and how many conversations 1269 01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:17,280 Speaker 7: with her the past thirty three years, with a face 1270 01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:22,920 Speaker 7: to face or via email or telephone, she has expressed remorse, grief, 1271 01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:28,040 Speaker 7: shame and incredulity over what has happened. She has to 1272 01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:53,879 Speaker 7: live with what has happened for the rest of her life. 1273 01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:00,920 Speaker 1: Justice Amanda turned to the legal teams asking them to 1274 01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:04,120 Speaker 1: make final submissions on what they thought the appropriate sentence 1275 01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:06,920 Speaker 1: should be. In the lead up to a sentencing, the 1276 01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:10,519 Speaker 1: judges provided with full submissions from each side, including any 1277 01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:14,280 Speaker 1: expert opinion or reports, and any additional reports they've ordered. 1278 01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:16,920 Speaker 1: Judges just don't turn up on the day and make 1279 01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:20,439 Speaker 1: a decision. They assess and consider a significant amount of 1280 01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:23,479 Speaker 1: material and the lead up to a hearing. Like laurence trial, 1281 01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,720 Speaker 1: her sentencing was intense and complex. I'm summarizing it in 1282 01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,120 Speaker 1: this podcast episode, but if you want to find out 1283 01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:32,439 Speaker 1: more you can do so on enzid Herald dot co 1284 01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,600 Speaker 1: dot nz. I will include links to my reporting and 1285 01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:39,439 Speaker 1: the judges final sentencing remarks and the show notes. Crown 1286 01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:43,000 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Andrew McCrae told the court that a life sentence 1287 01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:45,599 Speaker 1: with a starting point of twenty four to twenty five 1288 01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:49,920 Speaker 1: years minimum non parole was appropriate in Lauren's case. However, 1289 01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,080 Speaker 1: he acknowledged her mental illness and accepted a generous credit 1290 01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,800 Speaker 1: of around thirty percent should be applied. He said a 1291 01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:58,720 Speaker 1: life sentence with a minimum term of at least seventeen 1292 01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:02,720 Speaker 1: or eighteen years was needed and would not be manifestly unjust. 1293 01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:06,240 Speaker 1: The court needs to take into account the circumstances of 1294 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:09,559 Speaker 1: the offense and the circumstances of the offender. He said 1295 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,680 Speaker 1: this was very serious offending that warrant's consideration of that 1296 01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,519 Speaker 1: minimum non parole period. It cannot be doubted that any 1297 01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,120 Speaker 1: sentence will be difficult for Lauren. It is mitigated somewhat 1298 01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:23,679 Speaker 1: by the location that she will likely spend her sentence. 1299 01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,760 Speaker 1: McCrae said the sentence must denounce Lauren's offending and deter 1300 01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,639 Speaker 1: others from similar offending in future. A mother has killed 1301 01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:35,519 Speaker 1: her three young children, he said. The Crown's position is 1302 01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:38,839 Speaker 1: that while the defendant was suffering from a major depressive 1303 01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,160 Speaker 1: disorder at the time, that it was her anger or 1304 01:18:41,200 --> 01:18:43,840 Speaker 1: frustration at the children's behavior on the evening of the 1305 01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,920 Speaker 1: offending and in need for control that was the actual, core, 1306 01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:52,760 Speaker 1: isolated moment. There was a simple loss of control. Her 1307 01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:56,439 Speaker 1: depressive disorder resulted essentially in her failure to be able 1308 01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:58,360 Speaker 1: to cope with the behavior of the children on the 1309 01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,840 Speaker 1: night Lauren's where Karen Beaton said there had not been 1310 01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:04,360 Speaker 1: a case in New Zealand to date where a parent 1311 01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:08,559 Speaker 1: was convicted of murdering three children. The only comparable case 1312 01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:10,800 Speaker 1: was that of Bruce House, who was jailed for the 1313 01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,840 Speaker 1: murders of his stepdaughters. You can hear about that case 1314 01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:17,360 Speaker 1: in a previous episode of A Moment in Crime. Beaton 1315 01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:21,000 Speaker 1: suggested a starting point of twenty two years minimum non parole, 1316 01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:24,920 Speaker 1: with a significant discount for mental health. She commended the 1317 01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,960 Speaker 1: Crown's suggestion, but hoped for at least a credit of 1318 01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:32,040 Speaker 1: forty percent to reflect laurence state of mind. She said 1319 01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,839 Speaker 1: Lauren's deep remorse also needed to be considered, and revealed 1320 01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,639 Speaker 1: that the convicted murderer had written a letter to Justice 1321 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,600 Speaker 1: Amander outlining that she said she remains mentally unwell, she 1322 01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,599 Speaker 1: is mentally disordered, but describing her as having a lack 1323 01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,519 Speaker 1: of insight into what she did, I suggest is wrong. 1324 01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:52,599 Speaker 1: She was clearly unwell at the time, but also she 1325 01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:56,160 Speaker 1: had not recovered from postpartum depression. She was desolate, she 1326 01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:59,600 Speaker 1: was in despair, She was very unwell, she was experiencing 1327 01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:05,600 Speaker 1: cognitive impairment, she was clearly suicidal, and she acted exceptionally 1328 01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:09,960 Speaker 1: out of character. Justice Amanda had a lot to consider. 1329 01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,919 Speaker 1: Under New Zealand's Sentencing Act, a person must be sentenced 1330 01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:17,400 Speaker 1: to life imprisonment unless the circumstances of the offense and 1331 01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:21,760 Speaker 1: the offender mean that imprisonment for life would be manifestly unjust. 1332 01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,599 Speaker 1: He said. Ordinarily the murder of three children would point 1333 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,720 Speaker 1: away from a life sentence being manifestly unjust, but he 1334 01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,240 Speaker 1: had to consider the killer's mental health along with that. 1335 01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,640 Speaker 1: In this case, the formal part of the sentencing was 1336 01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:38,880 Speaker 1: lengthy and complex. The case was unprecedented, and Justice Amander 1337 01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:42,000 Speaker 1: had to consider so many aspects before making his final call. 1338 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:47,479 Speaker 1: His sentencing notes actually spanned twenty five pages. This is 1339 01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,040 Speaker 1: him in court on the day, explaining part of his 1340 01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:51,360 Speaker 1: decision making process. 1341 01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:55,400 Speaker 8: I consider your reactions to such stressors where the product 1342 01:20:55,479 --> 01:21:00,519 Speaker 8: will manifestation of your psychiatric condition, which rendered you unable 1343 01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,680 Speaker 8: to cope or to get through another day. It was 1344 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,280 Speaker 8: in that state of spare and sense of hopelessness, a 1345 01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:11,320 Speaker 8: state of altered reality and emotional numbness, that you killed 1346 01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:16,080 Speaker 8: the children. I do not consider your actions can be 1347 01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:20,439 Speaker 8: meaningfully separated from your psychiatric state at the time, and 1348 01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:25,400 Speaker 8: that there existed a strong causal nexus, Unlike in many, 1349 01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:29,160 Speaker 8: if not most, cases where mental illness has played its part. 1350 01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:33,960 Speaker 8: I consider your severe depression dominated your reasoning process, such 1351 01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,120 Speaker 8: as it was, and that the appalling murders, as I 1352 01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:40,280 Speaker 8: have already observed, have to be viewed in the context 1353 01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,680 Speaker 8: of the cognitive distortion and impaired judgment from which you 1354 01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:47,040 Speaker 8: were suffering at the time, which not just contributed your 1355 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:52,240 Speaker 8: actions but drove them. There is no suggestion that you 1356 01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:55,760 Speaker 8: have any propensity for violence, and I have concluded the 1357 01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:57,720 Speaker 8: offending would not have occurred. 1358 01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:58,920 Speaker 5: But for your psychiatric state. 1359 01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,599 Speaker 8: These factors have previously been held as pointing in favor 1360 01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:08,920 Speaker 8: of finding a sentence of life imprisonment to be manifestly unjust, 1361 01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:14,800 Speaker 8: notwithstanding the fact a defense of insanity was unavailable. I 1362 01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:17,760 Speaker 8: consider the operative extent of your mental impairment on your 1363 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:21,800 Speaker 8: offending cannot be adequately recognized by an adjustment to any 1364 01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:25,560 Speaker 8: minimum period of imprisonment that may otherwise have been imposed, 1365 01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:29,560 Speaker 8: and that in the circumstances the imposition of life imprisonment 1366 01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:36,840 Speaker 8: would be manifestly unjust. In reaching that decision, I am 1367 01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:40,519 Speaker 8: mindful of the risk of undervaluing the sanctity of human life, 1368 01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:45,320 Speaker 8: and in particular value of these little children's lives that 1369 01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:49,840 Speaker 8: were only just beginning. I am also wary of paying 1370 01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:53,680 Speaker 8: insufficient regard to their vulnerability and the gross. 1371 01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:55,960 Speaker 5: Breach of trust that their deaths represent. 1372 01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:00,400 Speaker 8: The fact that not one, but three young lives were 1373 01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:03,760 Speaker 8: taken has been impressed upon me by the Crown and 1374 01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:09,040 Speaker 8: is impossible to ignore. The circumstances of the murders are 1375 01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:13,360 Speaker 8: truly appalling. However, I do not consider this is a 1376 01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:17,040 Speaker 8: case limited to an offender acting while in a vulnerable 1377 01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:21,920 Speaker 8: psychological state. Rather, this offending involved a mother who was 1378 01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:25,400 Speaker 8: afflicted with a disease of the mind that was causative 1379 01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:26,320 Speaker 8: of her actions. 1380 01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:28,439 Speaker 5: There is no. 1381 01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:32,120 Speaker 8: Suggestion you are a risk to the community or that 1382 01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,920 Speaker 8: there are any public safety considerations that can be a 1383 01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:40,040 Speaker 8: highly relevant factor when dealing with offenders with psychiatric conditions 1384 01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:43,240 Speaker 8: that present a heightened risk of danger and raise the 1385 01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:46,920 Speaker 8: need for the type of extended supervision that accompanies an 1386 01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:51,600 Speaker 8: indeterminate life sentence. This is a case that involves a 1387 01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:55,800 Speaker 8: conspiracy of circumstances which is difficult to see being replicated. 1388 01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:59,320 Speaker 8: Some issue has been taken by the Crown With your 1389 01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,120 Speaker 8: state of remark, however, I do not consider you other than. 1390 01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:05,719 Speaker 5: Deeply regretful about what occurred. 1391 01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:09,400 Speaker 8: You struggle with how badly you have hurt him, and 1392 01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:13,200 Speaker 8: are horrified at the pain, trauma and distress your actions 1393 01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:17,400 Speaker 8: have caused. You have expressed to me how horrified you 1394 01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,880 Speaker 8: are at being responsible for the deaths of your three 1395 01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:26,960 Speaker 8: beautiful girls. I do not consider any question arises as 1396 01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:31,840 Speaker 8: to your genuine remorse. Missus Dickerson, will you please now 1397 01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:40,360 Speaker 8: stand for the murder of each of your three daughters, Leone, 1398 01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:44,400 Speaker 8: Karla and Meyer. You are sentenced to eighteen years in prison. 1399 01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,760 Speaker 8: Those sentences are to be served Concurrently, there will be 1400 01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:52,800 Speaker 8: an order pursuit to Section thirty four one a one 1401 01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:57,040 Speaker 8: of the Criminal Procedure Mentally Impaired Persons Act, that you 1402 01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:59,800 Speaker 8: be detained in a hospital as a special patient under 1403 01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:04,080 Speaker 8: the MA Mental Health Compulsory Assessment and Treatment Act. It 1404 01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:07,280 Speaker 8: will be for the relevant medical authorities to determine when 1405 01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:10,000 Speaker 8: you may be fit to be transferred to prison. 1406 01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:11,920 Speaker 5: You may stand out. 1407 01:25:12,680 --> 01:25:15,759 Speaker 1: Soon after sentencing, Lauren issued a statement through her lawyers. 1408 01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:19,480 Speaker 1: It was the first time she had addressed her offending publicly. 1409 01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:23,280 Speaker 1: This is her full statement, voiced by an actor. 1410 01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:27,599 Speaker 4: I loved Leane, Maya and Karla with all my heart. 1411 01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:32,360 Speaker 4: I failed them, I failed Graham, and I failed our families. 1412 01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,840 Speaker 4: I take responsibility for taking our three beautiful girls from 1413 01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:40,439 Speaker 4: this world. I would like to take this opportunity to 1414 01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:44,560 Speaker 4: convey the deepest and most sincere remorse for the extreme 1415 01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,839 Speaker 4: pain in hurt caused to my children and my family 1416 01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:52,400 Speaker 4: by my actions. No apology will ever be enough, and 1417 01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:56,280 Speaker 4: words will seem hollow to many. I want people to 1418 01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:59,280 Speaker 4: know our girls brought me so much joy and were 1419 01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:02,559 Speaker 4: the center of my world. I am horrified by my 1420 01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:06,799 Speaker 4: actions and the pain, distress, and trauma I have caused 1421 01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,760 Speaker 4: everyone who loved them. Like many others, I miss them 1422 01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:15,120 Speaker 4: every single day. I continue to undergo treatment for severe 1423 01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:18,679 Speaker 4: mental illness, and I owe it to everyone and myself 1424 01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:22,360 Speaker 4: to get mentally healthier. I will do whatever it takes, 1425 01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:26,080 Speaker 4: although I know that will never change the past. My 1426 01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:28,960 Speaker 4: family and I want people to know about the risks, 1427 01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:34,120 Speaker 4: warning signs, and extreme impacts of postpartum depression. We urge 1428 01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:37,559 Speaker 4: other families to look for and act on unhealthy signs. 1429 01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:42,519 Speaker 4: We urge women experiencing the symptoms of postpartum depression to 1430 01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:46,280 Speaker 4: tell the ones they love this pain and heartbreak cannot 1431 01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:49,559 Speaker 4: happen to any other families. I would like to thank 1432 01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,120 Speaker 4: the many people from around the world who have shown 1433 01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:55,800 Speaker 4: support to us. Your care and grace have provided us 1434 01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:58,080 Speaker 4: with warmth in our darkest despair. 1435 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:03,240 Speaker 1: Dickison will remain at Halmoorton Hospital until such time as 1436 01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:05,160 Speaker 1: she is deemed well enough to be moved to an 1437 01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:09,439 Speaker 1: appropriate prison or released. Her release can only be approved 1438 01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:12,160 Speaker 1: by the Minister of Health or the National Director of 1439 01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:15,360 Speaker 1: Mental Health, and only when thou satisfied Lauren is no 1440 01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:19,479 Speaker 1: longer a risk to herself or others. The Special Patient 1441 01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,479 Speaker 1: order is indefinite. There is no minimumal maximum time for 1442 01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:25,800 Speaker 1: a person to be detained. At the time of sentencing, 1443 01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:29,040 Speaker 1: she was still under twenty four to seven monitoring, taking 1444 01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:32,720 Speaker 1: powerful medication, and seeing a range of doctors and psychiatrists. 1445 01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:35,799 Speaker 1: She is able to have contact with her family weekly 1446 01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:39,040 Speaker 1: by phone or video call, and she's often sent care 1447 01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,720 Speaker 1: packages by supporters. In fact, days after she was sentenced, 1448 01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:45,400 Speaker 1: Lauren managed to get a message to some of those supporters, 1449 01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:48,400 Speaker 1: which was published on a Facebook page. Here is what 1450 01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:50,560 Speaker 1: she said in that note. 1451 01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,400 Speaker 4: Justice Amanda heard me. His decision is fair and just. 1452 01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:58,080 Speaker 4: Thank you all for your love and support of the 1453 01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:01,439 Speaker 4: last year. Thank you, thank you for believing my version 1454 01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:04,640 Speaker 4: of events that I am not an angry, jealous and 1455 01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,919 Speaker 4: selfish person, but rather a mother suffering from a severe 1456 01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:12,200 Speaker 4: mental illness. While trying to raise my three beautiful little 1457 01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:16,320 Speaker 4: girls and supporting my husband in all his endeavors. I 1458 01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:19,240 Speaker 4: believe you can have it all, just not all at once. 1459 01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:23,360 Speaker 4: Be kind to yourselves and talk until someone hears you. 1460 01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:26,679 Speaker 4: Do not be ashamed to admit if you can't cope. 1461 01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:29,559 Speaker 4: There is a way out which doesn't have to end 1462 01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:31,160 Speaker 4: in tragedy. 1463 01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,920 Speaker 1: Because Lauren's sentence is finite, she is eligible for parole 1464 01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:38,639 Speaker 1: after serving one third. Given the time she had already 1465 01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,880 Speaker 1: been detained by her sentencing date, she can appear before 1466 01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:45,360 Speaker 1: the parole board in less than three years. Immigration New 1467 01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:48,479 Speaker 1: Zealand will then decide whether a deportation order is served, 1468 01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:52,240 Speaker 1: removing the triple killer from the country. A coroner has 1469 01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:54,880 Speaker 1: confirmed that an inquest will also be held into the 1470 01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:58,360 Speaker 1: deaths of Leone, Khala and Maya. The inquest will aim 1471 01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,320 Speaker 1: to highlight any failings or shortcome and the Dickinson's immigration 1472 01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:06,080 Speaker 1: process and healthcare, among other things. I intend covering those 1473 01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:09,160 Speaker 1: proceedings in future, and they'll be reported in full on 1474 01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,439 Speaker 1: ENSI Herald dot co dot INZ. It's fair to say 1475 01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:15,120 Speaker 1: Lauren's trial was by far the most grueling I have 1476 01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,360 Speaker 1: ever covered. Hearing about the deaths of three little girls 1477 01:29:18,360 --> 01:29:22,720 Speaker 1: in graphic detail, some which was permanently suppressed, was hard. 1478 01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,840 Speaker 1: The days in court were heavy, both in terms of 1479 01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:29,800 Speaker 1: the amount of information and the nature of it. Some 1480 01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:32,679 Speaker 1: days were heavy on an emotional level. It was really 1481 01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:35,120 Speaker 1: hard to listen to the various narrations of what happened 1482 01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:38,160 Speaker 1: to the girls, how they were found, and ultimately how 1483 01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:41,280 Speaker 1: their murders could have been avoided. There just seemed to 1484 01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,439 Speaker 1: be so many opportunities for various people to help Lauren 1485 01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:47,560 Speaker 1: or intervene. I think what haunted me the most was 1486 01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:50,760 Speaker 1: the wadifs how easily the children could still be here, 1487 01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:55,240 Speaker 1: alive and happy, if warning signs and red flags weren't hidden, missed, 1488 01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:59,639 Speaker 1: or overlooked. In saying this, I'm not criticizing or blaming anyone. 1489 01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:03,160 Speaker 1: Nobody knew how unwhile Lauren was until it was too late. 1490 01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:06,160 Speaker 1: But there were just so many points in the timeline 1491 01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:10,080 Speaker 1: of this tragedy where a different conversation, decision, or action 1492 01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:14,240 Speaker 1: could have changed the outcome. We journalists are not teflon 1493 01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:17,200 Speaker 1: the terrible things we hear in courts. Don't just slide 1494 01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,080 Speaker 1: off our shoulders when we go home each day. Between 1495 01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:24,360 Speaker 1: our number there were tears, sleepless nights, nightmares. We got 1496 01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:27,960 Speaker 1: personal hate mail and complaints to our editors about the coverage. 1497 01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:31,040 Speaker 1: We were constantly bombarded with questions and opinions of other 1498 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:34,320 Speaker 1: people who had little knowledge of the case beyond the headlines. 1499 01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,759 Speaker 1: It was exhausting and draining, but we were all committed 1500 01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:42,920 Speaker 1: to doing our job, accurate and balanced storytelling, being the 1501 01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:45,800 Speaker 1: eyes and ears of the public in a courtroom, being 1502 01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,800 Speaker 1: a voice for the voiceless, and in this case, the 1503 01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:53,760 Speaker 1: voiceless were little Leanee Maya and Carla Dickerson. It's really 1504 01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:56,280 Speaker 1: important for me to finish this episode with a proper 1505 01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:00,000 Speaker 1: tribute to the little girls. A few weeks after the murders, 1506 01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,080 Speaker 1: Lauren's brother reached out to me by email. He didn't 1507 01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:04,960 Speaker 1: want to speak in depth about what had happened to 1508 01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:07,920 Speaker 1: his nieces, but shared a number of photos taking at 1509 01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:11,759 Speaker 1: a celebration of their lives earlier that day. The gathering 1510 01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:14,720 Speaker 1: was held in Pretoria at a public park. It was 1511 01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,679 Speaker 1: organized more for close friends and family, but some members 1512 01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:21,439 Speaker 1: of the community attended. We love them and we will 1513 01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:25,559 Speaker 1: always love them, Lauren's brother said. He sent three images 1514 01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:28,639 Speaker 1: to me of enlarged photos of Leonae Meyer and Carla 1515 01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:31,080 Speaker 1: lined up in a grassy area near a small pond. 1516 01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:34,720 Speaker 1: The photos bore the children's names and a description of 1517 01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:38,959 Speaker 1: each of them. Leonnaise read a beautiful little girl inside 1518 01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:42,200 Speaker 1: and out. You were such a chatterbox with an infectious laugh. 1519 01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:45,880 Speaker 1: You loved cuddles. You enjoyed baking, even though you ate 1520 01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the mixture before it was baked. You 1521 01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,360 Speaker 1: were so creative and loved your stickers and sparkles. You 1522 01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:56,160 Speaker 1: were kind and always cared deeply for those around you. 1523 01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:56,679 Speaker 5: You were a. 1524 01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:01,320 Speaker 1: Loving sister with a soft heart. Carla was described as 1525 01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:05,280 Speaker 1: a beautiful little girl who was feisty, independent and strong, 1526 01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:10,320 Speaker 1: yet kind and caring. Her photo caption read, you loved 1527 01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:13,599 Speaker 1: a cuddle and you loved early mornings. Your smile left 1528 01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:17,160 Speaker 1: an impact on each person that met you. You were 1529 01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:21,080 Speaker 1: such a cheerful and happy little soul. Your little personality 1530 01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:27,240 Speaker 1: was contagious. And then Maya, a beautiful, gentle little girl 1531 01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:30,400 Speaker 1: who was always smiling and a real charmer who knew 1532 01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:33,400 Speaker 1: just what looked to give us to get one more sweetie, 1533 01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,719 Speaker 1: playful to the core, so happy and cheerful. You loved 1534 01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:49,400 Speaker 1: tea parties and perfected the pinky finger A Moment in 1535 01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:52,280 Speaker 1: Crime is an enzed Me podcast written and hosted by 1536 01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:55,160 Speaker 1: me Annalisk, senior crime and Justice reporter for The New 1537 01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:59,799 Speaker 1: Zealand Herald. This episode was produced by Myself podcast production 1538 01:33:00,320 --> 01:33:03,640 Speaker 1: Ethan Selves and Liam McDonald from the nzedme sound and 1539 01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:04,760 Speaker 1: vision team. 1540 01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,559 Speaker 2: Thanks to my colleagues Emily Anstell and Blake Benny at 1541 01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:10,240 Speaker 2: news Talk was vb for voicing the words of Lauren 1542 01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:11,240 Speaker 2: and Graham Dickerson. 1543 01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:14,160 Speaker 1: Since Leonemeyer and Karla Dickerson were. 1544 01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:16,519 Speaker 2: Killed, so much of the focus has been on their mother, 1545 01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,439 Speaker 2: But this is their story and it's so important to 1546 01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:23,599 Speaker 2: remember the three little children at the center of this tragedy. 1547 01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:27,360 Speaker 2: If you are worried about yourself or someone else, please 1548 01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:29,719 Speaker 2: set the show notes for information on where to get help, 1549 01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:33,680 Speaker 2: and please ask for help. There is always someone who 1550 01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:36,320 Speaker 2: will listen, and always someone to support you when you're 1551 01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:37,600 Speaker 2: unwell or struggling. 1552 01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:41,599 Speaker 1: Episodes of A Moment in Crime are usually released monthly 1553 01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:45,200 Speaker 1: on enzied herold dot co, dot zed iHeartRadio, and your 1554 01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:48,360 Speaker 1: usual podcast apps. If you have a crime or case 1555 01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:51,559 Speaker 1: you'd like me to consider covering, email Anna dot leask 1556 01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:54,080 Speaker 1: at enzedme dot co dot zed