1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,600 Speaker 1: We're back in the hot waters of the foreshore and 2 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: seabed debate. The government says it'll move ahead with changes 3 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: to the Marine and Coastal Areas Acts as part of 4 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: the coalition deal it has with New Zealand. First, we've 5 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: spoken about this before. It follows the Supreme Court ruling 6 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: which basically throughout the proposed changes in December last year. 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: Harry Clatworthy is a barrister at Tamata Law and represented 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: NATI to with his foreshore and seabed claim at the 9 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: High Court. And he's with me now, Hi, Harry, good going, yeah, good, 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: thank you. This is this is all about defining customary title, 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: isn't it. Can you just touch the chase with us? 12 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: What exactly is going on here? 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: It is about defining customary title. Essentially, what the government 14 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: has done through his amendments is make it harder for 15 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: marty to have their customery title recognized through the courts. 16 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: And they're going to make sure that that stays. It 17 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: stays that way, basically, aren't they. 18 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: That's the plan. This new amendment will basically make the 19 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: test harder for marti groups, particularly marti groups who who 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: have areas of interest that are in high areas of 21 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: third party use, so Auckland Totonger areas with his development, 22 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of third parties using their area. 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: They're basically trying to make it so they don't pass 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: the test to have customary title or customer rights awarded 25 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: in those areas. 26 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: Because you had to prove that you had continuous and 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: exclusive use of an area since eighteen forty, basically didn't you. 28 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: That was what Key brought in, and so that courts 29 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: softened that slightly, which is what this government's got a 30 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: problem with. 31 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: No, so that still has to be proved. So continuous 32 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: use and occupation without substantial interruption since eighteen forty, and 33 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: really what that actually means is, you know, a massive 34 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: legal gray area. Of course every group, there's of course 35 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: some interruption to the use of the ocean by any group. 36 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: What this new amendment has done is basically make it 37 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: easier for the Crown to prove substantial interruption. So there's 38 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 2: a lower bar for there to be substantial interruption, which 39 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: basically extinguishes the customary title. 40 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: How many actual cases do you think we could be affected? 41 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: How many claims? 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: It's hard to say. There's about two hundred claims out there, 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 2: and so far nearly all of them have been successful. However, 44 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: the areas in the really high developed parts of the 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 2: country are yet to go all the way through Farnga 46 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: days about halfway through, so I would say at least 47 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: at least fifty or more are going to be affected 48 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: by this, if not more. All of them will be affected, 49 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: and all apart from the seven that have already been confirmed, 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: so they'll be all right, but the rest of them 51 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: are to have to either be reheard or meet this 52 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: new and updated test. But that's hard to say before 53 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 2: we get some decisions from judges, because at the end 54 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: of the day, they're the one to interpret the law. 55 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: Harry, what do you get if you can prove customer title? 56 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: What does that actually mean? Can you go and use 57 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: the foreshore and cbit and no one else uses it? 58 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 1: What does it mean? 59 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: No? No, no, So look, at the end of the day, 60 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: as Mardi, we say, you don't get, you don't get 61 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: a whole hell of a lot. There's a big misconception 62 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: and a lot of public fear around Mary going to 63 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: stop people going to the beaches. They're going to, you know, 64 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: basically cut off that the ability of non MARDI to 65 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: use them Waner, which completely isn't true. There's all navigation 66 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: access and fishing is completely protected under MACA. Basically, what 67 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: groups have the ability to do is turn down resource 68 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: management consents. However, there's a big exception for accommodated activity, 69 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: which is pretty much everything except basically private resource consents 70 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 2: in the area. Malory had the ability to veto those. 71 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: Fascinating Harry, thank you, Thank you for that. Appreciate you 72 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: coming on the show this morning. It's Harry Clatworthy, barrister 73 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: at Tamata Law. 74 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge. 75 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talks it'd be from five am weekdays, 76 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.