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Speaker 1: And now the Prime Minister is on his way to

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Speaker 1: China this trade delegation as we speak. He's going to

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Speaker 1: meet with President Chijingping on Friday. David Mahn is the

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Speaker 1: chief executive of man China Investment Management, currently in Beijing

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Speaker 1: and with us. Now, Hey, David, hi, Heather, I have written.

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Speaker 1: I've read rather the paper that you've written, and it

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound like you think the Chinese are going to

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Speaker 1: be very impressed with this delegation. What are we doing

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Speaker 1: wrong here?

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Speaker 2: The delegation is coming very late in the Prime Minister's tenure,

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Speaker 2: and there's an emphasis that he was in India before

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Speaker 2: with the largest trade delegation in New Zealand's history. He's

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Speaker 2: bringing an important but very modest one to China. So

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Speaker 2: and I think he's only thirty hours on the ground,

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Speaker 2: so it's almost perfunctory and sends a message to China

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Speaker 2: that although they're our largest trading partner, in a sense,

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Speaker 2: they don't matter so much to us and we can't

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Speaker 2: afford to do that.

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Speaker 1: Is this US perhaps overthinking this or is this already

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Speaker 1: how they feel?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've lived in Beijing for forty years and although

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Speaker 2: I don't have high level contacts. I know people that

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Speaker 2: work in the system and relate to getting with Oceania.

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Speaker 2: And quite clearly the Chinese government has watched this New

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Speaker 2: Zealand government announce its intentions to draw closer to America,

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Speaker 2: form alliances with America after forty years of being a

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Speaker 2: non allied country, and that means really working to contain

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Speaker 2: China or join war games against China. So we can't

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Speaker 2: have both if we want to be close to America

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Speaker 2: and under its wing. It's one thing, or trade freely

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Speaker 2: with all As a non allied country that makes its

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Speaker 2: own choices, we need to be careful of that. So

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Speaker 2: now I don't think Beijing's happy at all.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what are they going to do then to

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Speaker 1: express their unhappiness.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a very hospitable culture, and the red carpets

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Speaker 2: we rolled out, and there'll be good speeches, and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure that the Prime Minister will be treat with courtesy,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure the whole delegation will have a good run.

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Speaker 2: I think it's possible that there will be messages of concern.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that, and we probably won't know because

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Speaker 2: in those meetings there are very few people. But It's

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Speaker 2: something which our foreign affairs, culture and business as a

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Speaker 2: hearing in China that China is worried about this country

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Speaker 2: that is a small country, but one that has been

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Speaker 2: its own person in a sovereign sense for so long,

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Speaker 2: and China trusted and relied on. We were the first

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Speaker 2: to have a free trade agreement with China is beginning

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Speaker 2: to go into this camp where it's like culture wars,

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Speaker 2: where you're dealing with a world where the post colonial powers,

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Speaker 2: governments run by I suppose Western anglophone white people, want

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Speaker 2: to retain some kind of primacy. And this is an

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Speaker 2: old idea, one that really has a character our politics

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Speaker 2: for many, many decades. So they look at this and

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Speaker 2: I think they're perplexed, but the legacy is so good.

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Speaker 2: My instinct and from what I'm hearing, is that they'll

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Speaker 2: wait for the next election and see what that new

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Speaker 2: government says and what kind of stance they'll take.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So no tinkering with the FTA or anything kind

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Speaker 1: of punishment at.

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Speaker 2: The moment, I don't think so. I think also China's

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Speaker 2: got so much on its hands with countries that are

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Speaker 2: far more important than that. We're probably not on the radar,

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Speaker 2: which has been to our benefit.

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Speaker 1: David, do you think that we're doing the wrong thing though,

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Speaker 1: because I mean we have been told for a very

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Speaker 1: long time we need to diversify away from China and

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Speaker 1: that will be diversifying towards India and India need to

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Speaker 1: be formed over and that is what we've done. Is

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Speaker 1: that the wrong thing to do to prioritize India over China?

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Speaker 1: Do you think for the broadery New Zealand economy.

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Speaker 2: Not at all. I think we go back to John

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Speaker 2: Key's administration considerable efforts towards India trying to get the

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Speaker 2: basis of a free trade agreement, and I think when

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Speaker 2: we look at the growth of our trade, of course

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Speaker 2: we should diversify. A prude in company does that, so

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Speaker 2: a country should. And India is far more complex than China.

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Speaker 2: India has far more internal barriers to trade with foreign

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Speaker 2: countries than China, but it is a huge economy, it's growing.

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Speaker 2: We should be I think giving more attention to Indonesia.

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Speaker 2: There's more work to be done in Vietnam as well.

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Speaker 2: But it has been a narrative about ten years now,

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Speaker 2: and this is a Wellington thing. This is not a

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Speaker 2: national labor thing that we should be doing less with

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Speaker 2: China because China's bad and I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: our officials are more comfortable going to Washington, Canberra, London,

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Speaker 2: Brussels than Hanoi, Beijing, Manila. So this is a mindset

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Speaker 2: that we need to get past for an Asia Pacific economy,

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Speaker 2: and I think China is important. We shall expand here

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Speaker 2: and yes, diversify elsewhere where we can.

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Speaker 1: It's good to talk to you, David. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: it this David Mann, chief executive of man China Investment Management.

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Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks.

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Speaker 1: They'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio