Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2: Sound a scratch up ticket by two twelve PA tagging
Speaker 2: gas weird still time, let's see us wrong?
Speaker 3: News Talk zed B. You're with the Weekend Collective Jason
Speaker 3: Walls in for Tim Beveridge, who's away this week, and
Speaker 3: we've got the one roof radio show, The Rundown with
Speaker 3: Ed McKnight, resident economists at ope's partners.
Speaker 1: Ed.
Speaker 2: How are you doing, Jackson? I'm so excited to be
Speaker 2: talking to you today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to be talking to you about some property,
Speaker 3: some housing. How good?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I want to start with this because a ASB has
Speaker 3: cut its eighteen month fixed term loan rate to five
Speaker 3: point thirty nine, following cuts by Westpac and by B
Speaker 3: and Z. Now all three of these banks six months
Speaker 3: rates are now at five point nine to nine percent
Speaker 3: as they fight to be the bank of choice for mortgages.
Speaker 3: And this comes alongside rumors apparently of a foreign Buyers
Speaker 3: band reversal, with experts saying it could work, but the
Speaker 3: rules would need to be a little bit more flexible.
Speaker 3: So we got we're going to be taking your calls
Speaker 3: this afternoon. So oh, eight hundred and ten eighty. If
Speaker 3: you got a question for Ed, probably a question for
Speaker 3: Ed rather than me, because he's the expert. I'm just
Speaker 3: the guy that I'm just the loud mouth with the questions.
Speaker 3: But before we get some calls from listen, I'm curious,
Speaker 3: from your perspective, what's the reason behind these cuts that
Speaker 3: we're seeing in bank interest rates.
Speaker 2: Well, it's quite funny because I was over in Europe
Speaker 2: in the holidays, and midway through I thought, do you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm going to log on and see what's
Speaker 2: happening with the interest rates, And one thing I was
Speaker 2: very surprised about is that the wholesale interest rates, So
Speaker 2: just think of this as what it costs the bank
Speaker 2: to borrow money and then lend it to people like
Speaker 2: you and me. That went down by about zero point
Speaker 2: two five percent over the break, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's very interesting. So it's not surprising that we then
Speaker 2: see ASB making a small cunt, you know, zero point
Speaker 2: two percent off their one year rate. Now, I think
Speaker 2: ASP have been pretty clever move so early in the
Speaker 2: year because they are the first bank to make any
Speaker 2: meaningful cut. In twenty twenty five, Westpac did get just
Speaker 2: ahead of them the day before on the seventeenth, they
Speaker 2: cut their six month rate, as you'd said, but HAYSB
Speaker 2: went a little bit further, cutting their one year rate
Speaker 2: and their eighteen month as well. So now ASB are
Speaker 2: the kind of leaders in the market as far as
Speaker 2: I'm concerned, at five point three nine percent for the
Speaker 2: eighteen month rate, five point five nine for that one
Speaker 2: year rate as well.
Speaker 3: Interesting that you were talking about the Europeans and so
Speaker 3: this is this cut more based on what's happening overseas
Speaker 3: rather than in the New Zealand market because the Reserve
Speaker 3: Bank haven't moved that yet their interest rates that obviosly
Speaker 3: our call is on February nineteenth, So is this is
Speaker 3: this more based on what's happening overseas rather than in
Speaker 3: the New Zealand market.
Speaker 2: I think it's mainly what's happening with what it costs
Speaker 2: the banks to borrow money and lend it out. Now
Speaker 2: that that's related to a whole heap of things. One
Speaker 2: of the main things that is impacted by that is
Speaker 2: what people think the Reserve Bank is going to do,
Speaker 2: and what you often see is that banks will anticipate
Speaker 2: and the markets will anticipate what is the Reserve Bank
Speaker 2: going to do, and then they move beforehand. Now, one
Speaker 2: interesting thing is the Reserve Bank Governor Adrian or when
Speaker 2: he last made his press conference cutting the ocr by
Speaker 2: half a percent, he said, you know what I think
Speaker 2: we're going to do next time. I think we'll probably
Speaker 2: do another half a percent. So there's probably some anticipation
Speaker 2: of that going on. I expect that many of the
Speaker 2: other banks will probably follow asb's lead in terms of
Speaker 2: trimming some of their rates early in January. The one
Speaker 2: thing that I just really cautioned borrowers out there is
Speaker 2: I don't think we're going to see a repeat of
Speaker 2: what we saw in twenty twenty four happening this year.
Speaker 3: In terms of rate cut after rate cut after ratecut.
Speaker 2: There were huge, huge discounts happening or drops happening in
Speaker 2: interest rates last year, and I think people have forgotten that.
Speaker 2: At the start of twenty twenty four, asb's one year
Speaker 2: interest rate was seven point four percent. Okay, fine, it
Speaker 2: was seven point three nine percent, but basically seven point
Speaker 2: four percent, And what we saw throughout the last twelve
Speaker 2: months is a drop of I think it was about
Speaker 2: one point eight percent. We've basically gone from seven point
Speaker 2: four down to five point six ish. Now we're not
Speaker 2: going to see another one point eight percent cut again
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Are you talking about mortgage rates or from the OCR
Speaker 3: where we're not going to see another one point five
Speaker 3: basis points cuts from one point five percent cut from
Speaker 3: the Reserve Bank or are you talking mortgage I'm talking
Speaker 3: mortgage registrates in that case. Now, if we're talking really
Speaker 3: about the OCR, we're sitting at four point two five percent,
Speaker 3: the kind of terminal rate of how low are we
Speaker 3: going to go? Most banks are saying somewhere between three
Speaker 3: percent and two point seven five percent.
Speaker 2: So again, what have we seen? We've seen. We peaked
Speaker 2: the OCR at five point five percent. We've chopped off
Speaker 2: that matte bloody math has not gone too well. We've
Speaker 2: dropped off one point two five percent. Are we going
Speaker 2: to see that again? We probably will see another one
Speaker 2: point two five percent off the OCR very slowly. Won't
Speaker 2: all happen in twenty twenty five? In my view, I
Speaker 2: think we'll probably see the last few cuts happening into
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. But in terms of the mortgage interest rates,
Speaker 2: which is what we will care about when we're when
Speaker 2: we're fixing our loans, and I know that. I think
Speaker 2: you said you'd recently, over the last couple of years
Speaker 2: picked up a loan, so we won't dig into that.
Speaker 2: I don't think we're going to see another one point
Speaker 2: eight percent cut off that one year rate which most
Speaker 2: of us fix in. For my pick is we're going
Speaker 2: to end.
Speaker 3: Low fives low fives, because I did see an article
Speaker 3: in the Herald that said mortgage holders are bracing for
Speaker 3: a rate in the fours. You just don't think we're
Speaker 3: going to get there.
Speaker 2: You might get to high fours. I mean, you'll never
Speaker 2: say never, but we're not going back to four percent.
Speaker 2: From my view, I don't think we're going to see
Speaker 2: another four percent for many, many, many years.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I was thinking the other day
Speaker 3: at is how in America you can lock in your
Speaker 3: interest rate for thirty years. And imagine if you bought
Speaker 3: in the days when interest rates were zero point twenty
Speaker 3: five or something like that, you'd be you'd be making
Speaker 3: money handle a fist.
Speaker 2: Essentially, you'd be really happy. Or even there are people
Speaker 2: who fixed for five years at two point nine nine percent,
Speaker 2: and those people who were smart enough to do that.
Speaker 2: And let me be clear, I wasn't one of those people. No,
Speaker 2: because back at that time, the talk out of most
Speaker 2: economists was that interest rates through interest rates were going
Speaker 2: to be low for a very very long time, and
Speaker 2: that two point nine nine percent, well, in the context
Speaker 2: of what economists thought at the time, Wow, maybe it
Speaker 2: wasn't that great. Now, there were some people who were
Speaker 2: much smarter than me, like Tony Alexander, another economists who
Speaker 2: was telling everybody to fax at two point nine nine
Speaker 2: for those five years, and.
Speaker 3: He was right, Yeah, geez, two point nine nine I
Speaker 3: met six point nine nine. At the moment, we're coming
Speaker 3: up for renewal soon. And the thing is we are
Speaker 3: February fourteenth. The Reserve Bank's decision is on the nineteenth.
Speaker 3: So can I ask you just from my own perspective here,
Speaker 3: can I float for just a week and then the
Speaker 3: next week when I get an indication about what the
Speaker 3: Reserve Bank's doing, then I can start up making some decisions.
Speaker 3: Is that a good perspective? Is that something smart to do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something that quite a few borrowers decide to do. Now,
Speaker 2: there is a little caution about this The good thing
Speaker 2: about your situation is you've only got a very short
Speaker 2: period of time between when your mortgage interstraight comes off
Speaker 2: and when the Reserve Bank makes their decision. So if
Speaker 2: I was a mortgage advisor, which I'm not, a legitimate
Speaker 2: piece of advice to somebody in that situation might be yeah,
Speaker 2: float for a week, and a number of our clients
Speaker 2: and Open's partners do that. Now, I've seen other people
Speaker 2: borrowers who are saying, well, you know it's early January,
Speaker 2: the next ocer cat's coming in mid maybe I'll float
Speaker 2: for six weeks or so. To that, I'd be like, well,
Speaker 2: six weeks on floating is actually a very very long time, yeah,
Speaker 2: because you're paying over an extra percent per year more
Speaker 2: just to be on floating. And so that's sometimes where
Speaker 2: the numbers may not make sense. The other thing in
Speaker 2: that situation, some borrowers can get quite disappointed when the
Speaker 2: OCR makes a cut, but the banks don't drop or
Speaker 2: don't pass on that full OCR cut. So there might
Speaker 2: be a half a percent cut in the OCR, and
Speaker 2: you might get point two percent off the one year rate,
Speaker 2: something along those lines, And some borrowers might say, hey, well,
Speaker 2: I've just been paying quite a lot of money on floating.
Speaker 2: Maybe that didn't quite make as much sense as they thought.
Speaker 2: What's really important to recognize is we are past the
Speaker 2: point where a half a percent cut in the OCR
Speaker 2: gets passed on to a half a percent cut in
Speaker 2: a mortgage interest rate. Again, if I take you back
Speaker 2: to early to mid twenty twenty four, Adrian or just
Speaker 2: had to make a sounding like he was maybe going
Speaker 2: to cut the rate, and you would see the wholesale
Speaker 2: markets really drop quite quickly, and I'd say, great, we're
Speaker 2: going to have lower interest rates. We're going to see
Speaker 2: a lower OCR. Let's pass that on or bet on
Speaker 2: it right now. And so you would see the banks
Speaker 2: cutting their rates even though the OCR wasn't even moving.
Speaker 2: Now we're past that point of anticipation and you see
Speaker 2: a half a percent cut in the OCR, and you
Speaker 2: might see a point two percent cut off your mortgage
Speaker 2: interest rates. So people just need to bear in mind
Speaker 2: or temper their expectations about how far are we going
Speaker 2: to see those interest rates continue to fall?
Speaker 3: And when it comes to those OCR cuts and these
Speaker 3: OCR statements, I mean, it's not even about the cut
Speaker 3: these days, it's about what happens next. Where the indication
Speaker 3: is where things are going. So if you look, if
Speaker 3: you put your Economs hat on, it's been on this
Speaker 3: whole time, by the way, but to keep it on
Speaker 3: while I ask you, what do you think his forward
Speaker 3: looking projections are going to be if he's been hinting
Speaker 3: at these fifty basis points cuts. At one point, there's
Speaker 3: even some questions about us seventy five basis point cuts.
Speaker 3: What happens next in Adrianaor's mind when he's looking out
Speaker 3: into twenty twenty five after this February nineteenth.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. So if I imagine we're Adrian
Speaker 2: Aura's right now, I believe he's got a holiday home
Speaker 2: somewhere in the Lower North Island, probably not the santin news.
Speaker 3: Talk or AE you're listening, Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty,
Speaker 3: we'd love to have you on the show.
Speaker 2: That's nothing bad about news talks, he'db it's more like
Speaker 2: he's probably not listening to me. But if as Adrian
Speaker 2: all right now, or Karen Silka, the Deputy Reserve Bank
Speaker 2: Governor or assistant can't remember, they should be pretty comfortable
Speaker 2: at the moment because they're going to be looking at
Speaker 2: how is the economy evolving? And I think it is
Speaker 2: probably evolving along their expectations. They are seeing some negative
Speaker 2: things happening at the moment. Unemployment has increased to four
Speaker 2: point eight percent, it is expected to continue to increase.
Speaker 2: And what they need to be comfortable about comfortable about
Speaker 2: is that inflation is coming down. So what do they
Speaker 2: want to see. They want to see businesses not raising
Speaker 2: their prices. They want to see businesses saying, hey, we're
Speaker 2: struggling for a lack of customers. At the moment, we've
Speaker 2: got a bit of what we call us economists called
Speaker 2: productive of capacity, i e. We've got enough staff and
Speaker 2: we've got enough stuff that we could make more goods
Speaker 2: or we could provide more services if we needed to.
Speaker 2: And so we're not going to increase our prices. And
Speaker 2: so even though there is some negative things happening in
Speaker 2: the economy at the moment, I would say that's probably
Speaker 2: what the Reserve Bank is looking for, because they want
Speaker 2: to make sure that businesses don't think that times are
Speaker 2: so good that they're going to keep increasing their prices.
Speaker 2: Because what does the Reserve Bank want to do. We've
Speaker 2: got inflation within that target band of one to three percent.
Speaker 2: Think it was two point two percent last time. Next
Speaker 2: time the data gets released, they're going to be wanting
Speaker 2: to make sure that it is still anchored at that
Speaker 2: two percent.
Speaker 3: Now, walk me through why infletion comes back to mortgage rates.
Speaker 2: Well, inflation is the main thing that the Reserve Bank
Speaker 2: is targeting, right, because inflation is good for nobody. We
Speaker 2: call it. Us economists called it a thief in your
Speaker 2: back pocket because if you've got one hundred dollars in
Speaker 2: your bank account, well, in a year's time, that one
Speaker 2: hundred dollars isn't going to buy the same amount of
Speaker 2: stuff that it can. Today, we always think about a
Speaker 2: packet of lollies like a two dollar mixed. Well, blind
Speaker 2: me back back in my day, when I was kicking
Speaker 2: my day, the two dollar mixture was only a dollar,
Speaker 2: and well, back I always think of it as volume
Speaker 2: as well. Back in the early nineties, two dollar banks yr. Gosh,
Speaker 2: that'll get you a whole heap of stuff. Now I haven't,
Speaker 2: I must, I haven't been to a dairy recently in
Speaker 2: order to two dollar mixt year. But I bet you
Speaker 2: you don't get as many logs for your money's in
Speaker 2: there it's a rip off that and so what the
Speaker 2: Reserve Bank whats to make sure is that we've got
Speaker 2: low and stable inflation between one to three percent, targeting
Speaker 2: that two percent. Now, what can the Reserve Bank do
Speaker 2: to stop inflation going up? They can hike up interstrates
Speaker 2: because when interest rates are high, that does two things.
Speaker 2: It stops us borrowing to spend, which means people spend less.
Speaker 2: And then on top of that, it also encourages people
Speaker 2: to save because you get a better return on your money.
Speaker 2: And so the way that interest rates are linked is
Speaker 2: that that is the Reserve Bank's main tool to stop inflation.
Speaker 3: Interesting, and you did mention employment there as well. They
Speaker 3: don't actually technically have to worry about that anymore because
Speaker 3: the government kibosh that mat Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that was part of the d date they were
Speaker 2: targeting maximum sustainable employment. And I guess what the government
Speaker 2: was trying to do with that change is they didn't
Speaker 2: want the Reserve Bank to have two competing mandates. Now,
Speaker 2: I must have been at that specific time there wasn't
Speaker 2: really that much of a trade off between those two mandates.
Speaker 2: But I think it's probably a good thing that we've
Speaker 2: just got the Reserve Bank sole focus on. It's one
Speaker 2: thing inflation, because inflation is nobody's friend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's back down within that within that that
Speaker 3: band as well. And we've got inflation numbers out leader
Speaker 3: this week.
Speaker 4: Is it.
Speaker 3: That's news? I think it is that. That's from our newsroom,
Speaker 3: So we will keep we will keep you across that
Speaker 3: when it comes interested in is now the time to
Speaker 3: sell or buy it? It really does come back to
Speaker 3: this when we're talking about property. Is now the time
Speaker 3: to sell? Is now the time to buy? Or should
Speaker 3: we just be waiting to see what the market looks like.
Speaker 2: It's quite funny because at the end of of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four I wrote two articles for one ROOF. I
Speaker 2: wrote the seven reasons why I thought it was the
Speaker 2: right time to buy my first house, not my first
Speaker 2: property that I am because I've been investing in property
Speaker 2: for a while, but the first house that I would
Speaker 2: ever live in. And I wrote the seven reasons why
Speaker 2: now was the time to buy? And then the following
Speaker 2: week I wrote the six reasons why it was not
Speaker 2: the right time to buy a house. And depending on
Speaker 2: what you think, you will either agree with one or
Speaker 2: not the other.
Speaker 3: Right seven and one was sex, so there's a clear winner.
Speaker 2: Well, in the end, I decided to buy a house,
Speaker 2: and I'll tell you the reason why, specifically as an
Speaker 2: owner occupier, is that I could see interest rates coming
Speaker 2: down and we've seen quite large drops. That does two
Speaker 2: things to me. That tells me a it's more affordable
Speaker 2: to buy a house than it was a year ago
Speaker 2: in terms of being able to afford the mortgage. The
Speaker 2: second thing that also means is I believe that we
Speaker 2: probably will see some house price growth in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: and so perhaps it will be slightly cheaper to be
Speaker 2: able to buy the house today compared to or back
Speaker 2: in December, compared to what it would be in six
Speaker 2: months time. I mean there are some other changes as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you what we bought in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 3: and we bought off the plans and so it's a
Speaker 3: beautiful wee apartment. It's tiny, it's less than the size
Speaker 3: of this room. Doesn't help the listeners at home. It's
Speaker 3: about forty eight square meters.
Speaker 2: We love it.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful. But since then prices have gone down quite significantly,
Speaker 3: and so we're sitting in a perspective where you know,
Speaker 3: we could be the first people in New Zealand's history
Speaker 3: to lose money on property, and it does get It
Speaker 3: kind of gets you. So what would be your advice
Speaker 3: to somebody like myself and my wife. We've got an
Speaker 3: eight year mortgage, so we're trying to pay it off
Speaker 3: as quickly as possible, but we're really worried about the
Speaker 3: fact that it's just way worth, way less than.
Speaker 2: When we bought it. Yeah, your mortgage is quite quite
Speaker 2: short at eight years. Was there a specific reason behind that.
Speaker 3: We looked at how much we'd be paying back in
Speaker 3: interest and it just scared the Jesus out of us,
Speaker 3: and we thought that we just you know, it's the
Speaker 3: weekly payments aren't crippling. It's about eleven hundred dollars a week,
Speaker 3: so and it's quite a small place. We had a
Speaker 3: pretty sizable deposit because we saved up for a long time.
Speaker 2: And it's an investment property. Now you still go to
Speaker 2: where we live there. Oh cool. Now, a couple of
Speaker 2: things that I'm picking up there. The first thing that
Speaker 2: I'd say is you wouldn't be the first person to
Speaker 2: lose money and real estate in New Zealand. We've always
Speaker 2: got to remember that it is not always a you
Speaker 2: can never lose money and money and property. You absolutely can.
Speaker 2: Most people do tend to make money over time, though,
Speaker 2: and the reason they make money is that they hold on.
Speaker 2: And so the first and uncomfortable and maybe quite obvious
Speaker 2: thing that I'd like to point out is you need
Speaker 2: to hold on as the main thing. And in fact,
Speaker 2: cool Logic do some really good analysis where they group
Speaker 2: people into two buckets. First, we've got the bucket of
Speaker 2: people who made money sold their property and made money
Speaker 2: through the property's value going up, so they sold more
Speaker 2: for than they bought it. And then they've got this
Speaker 2: other bucket of people who were the opposite. They sold
Speaker 2: their property and they sold it for a price less
Speaker 2: than they bought it for. Now, the major difference between
Speaker 2: these two groups is simply how long those people held
Speaker 2: on for. So the group of people who made money
Speaker 2: in property, they on average hold their properties for somewhere
Speaker 2: between nine to ten years. The people who have lost
Speaker 2: money in property routinely hold their properties for somewhere between
Speaker 2: one to three years. And so it is this time
Speaker 2: heals all wounds mentality. Now, the uncomfortable and sad thing
Speaker 2: in this story is that you did buy at the
Speaker 2: top of the market, but you can't help that, no idea,
Speaker 2: you didn't know. You love your apartment, you've got a
Speaker 2: lowish mortgage, you're not struggling with cash flow. Obviously, one
Speaker 2: option if you were finding those repayments to be quite tough.
Speaker 2: One option you would have, because I can tell from
Speaker 2: looking at you pretty young, it was potentially extend that
Speaker 2: mortgage term out because you voluntarily said, hey, we're going
Speaker 2: to do this in eight years, and you know that
Speaker 2: can be a good thing to pay it off really
Speaker 2: quickly if you've got the means to so. One option
Speaker 2: that you might have if you did find yourself struggling
Speaker 2: as interest rates have gone up from when you purchased,
Speaker 2: it would just be to extend that out if you
Speaker 2: needed to. But the main thing is going to be
Speaker 2: hold on, And that is the thing that I'm saying
Speaker 2: to a lot of investors at the moment. If you
Speaker 2: bought at the top of the market and you've lost
Speaker 2: a couple of hundred K because the properties have gone down,
Speaker 2: there's only really one thing you can do, which is
Speaker 2: to keep holding because if you sell now you kind
Speaker 2: of book that loss. You know you have what we
Speaker 2: in the investment circles called crystallized that loss because it's
Speaker 2: now real, Whereas if you hold on over the next
Speaker 2: ten years of that property doubles in value, you'll probably
Speaker 2: make some money.
Speaker 3: Ah okay, I'll tell the wife when I get home.
Speaker 3: She's not going to like the fact that I called
Speaker 3: her the wife on the radio. Twenty five past four.
Speaker 3: Will be back with Graham after this News Talks dB
Speaker 3: Newstalks dB. It's the Weekend Collective with Jason Walls in
Speaker 3: for Tim Beverage. Text says I have friends who have
Speaker 3: investment properties and with the recent huge red raises to
Speaker 3: insurance and rates and drops in rents, they can't even
Speaker 3: break even looking at selling regards.
Speaker 2: Wayne.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for that, Wayne, and keep those
Speaker 3: texts coming in. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
Speaker 3: our number. If you've got some questions for Ed's and
Speaker 3: we've got Graham on the line. Graham, how are you.
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: Know? So?
Speaker 4: I just I just I just tuned in and I
Speaker 4: don't even know the general's name.
Speaker 3: You're talking to Ed mcnat he's the resident economist at
Speaker 3: Opez Partners, Rightbez, Sorry.
Speaker 4: I own I own a small commercial property in Wellington.
Speaker 4: All right, now, the gentleman concerned says I should hold
Speaker 4: my prices. I can't hold my prices because I've got
Speaker 4: an idiot council who keeps putting the rates up. When
Speaker 4: they're going up seven they put them up seventeen percent.
Speaker 4: This year, they're going to put them up against a
Speaker 4: fifty percent. And the Gentleman's right, we've got to stop.
Speaker 4: But how do you stop the lakes of the council
Speaker 4: from putting their prices up? So I put my price.
Speaker 3: It's a good question to ads. So what do we
Speaker 3: do here? Does he just have to does Graham have
Speaker 3: to just eat the increased costs in terms of the
Speaker 3: rates increase or does he just say no, we've got
Speaker 3: a but the prices up like everybody else mate, No,
Speaker 3: not at all.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Graham, you might have just let me just clarify
Speaker 2: what I did say when we was talking to my
Speaker 2: friend Jason before, and he was saying with it that
Speaker 2: his property has gone down in value. I was saying,
Speaker 2: holding on is probably going to be one of the
Speaker 2: better ways to make sure he doesn't lose money rather
Speaker 2: than selling it a loss. Now, in terms of your
Speaker 2: situation where you're having to put up your commercial rent.
Speaker 2: I wasn't suggesting that you should just hold your rent
Speaker 2: and don't be a greedy landlord or something along those lines.
Speaker 2: In fact, if your commercial property's rent is below the
Speaker 2: market value, then increasing it, I'd actually be totally for that, because,
Speaker 2: as you've identified, some of your costs have gone up.
Speaker 2: One thing that I'd just say, though, in terms of
Speaker 2: whether you're a commercial property landlord or a residential property landlord,
Speaker 2: is tenants don't really care what our costs are. That's
Speaker 2: not really something they concern themselves with. What they are
Speaker 2: concerned about is, well, what is the market rent. So,
Speaker 2: for example, let's say that my costs as a residential
Speaker 2: landlord go up by ten percent, Well, if the market
Speaker 2: rent hasn't gone up by ten percent, I can't just
Speaker 2: say to my tenant, well, bugger it, I'm putting up
Speaker 2: by rent by ten percent, because that wouldn't fly. So
Speaker 2: it's all about what's happening with the market rent as
Speaker 2: opposed to what's happening with our costs. And your situation
Speaker 2: is the property, the commercial property a little bit under
Speaker 2: rented at the moment.
Speaker 4: Do you think I'm pretty hard to get tips, pretty
Speaker 4: hard to get, pretty hard to get tenants. You know, yeah,
Speaker 4: they will come back, but at this point in time,
Speaker 4: and they want to quibble over over the rents. And
Speaker 4: the problem is if you if you hold your rent
Speaker 4: and you're losing money, you might as will not be
Speaker 4: in business. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The difficulty there as well, and obviously you'd well know this, Graham,
Speaker 2: if you've been a commercial landlord for a while as well,
Speaker 2: is we've basically got to make a choice. Do we
Speaker 2: want to meet the market, and sometimes that can mean
Speaker 2: losing a little bit a bit of money, or do
Speaker 2: we want to wait and try and get something a
Speaker 2: bit better now. Obviously, if we wait and we have
Speaker 2: no income coming in for a for a little while,
Speaker 2: we're still paying all of those other costs. So we're
Speaker 2: just going to make that choice. Do you think you'll
Speaker 2: you'll kind of lower the rent and meet the market,
Speaker 2: or do you think you hold out for somebody paying
Speaker 2: a bit more.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm right in the middle of it now, but
Speaker 4: it's it's it's pretty hard to sort of not put
Speaker 4: it up. You know, I'm looking at sort of five
Speaker 4: percents and maybe ten percents at the most, but it's
Speaker 4: pretty hard and then you get then you get to
Speaker 4: come back from the other way. We can't aboard it,
Speaker 4: you know. So I'm between it. I'm between a rock
Speaker 4: and a hard place whether to to hang on to
Speaker 4: the tenant letting go? You know I do. I lose
Speaker 4: money and suck it up. But I can only suck
Speaker 4: it up for so long until the council start and.
Speaker 3: There'll be quite a few other people in your situation.
Speaker 3: Grams or hold on and let us know how it goes. Oh,
Speaker 3: eight hundred eighty ten eighty. If you have another question
Speaker 3: for AD, we have a tax that's come through AD. Hello, there,
Speaker 3: do you think insurance risks?
Speaker 2: Ie?
Speaker 3: Your house might be close to the border of a
Speaker 3: flood zone and so insurance costs me skyrocket? Do you
Speaker 3: think that the owner should sell?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a really interesting one. The main thing I'd
Speaker 2: say about insurance is it's not just about whether you
Speaker 2: are in a flood area or not. It also depends
Speaker 2: on how your house is built. Let me give you
Speaker 2: a really good example. So a lot of newer properties
Speaker 2: today are built above the ground. In fact, if you
Speaker 2: look at a lot of terrace housing, you'll often see
Speaker 2: that those properties you've got to walk up a couple
Speaker 2: of steps to get into them, because they might be
Speaker 2: half a meter or a meter off the ground. The
Speaker 2: whole reason they've been built that way is to mitigate
Speaker 2: that flood risk. So if you've got a new RB property,
Speaker 2: not necessarily a new build, but something built a bit
Speaker 2: more recently, often that will have less flood risk than
Speaker 2: a property that was built perhaps in the fifties and
Speaker 2: is quite close to the ground. What we're seeing with
Speaker 2: insurance companies now, and I will come back to answer
Speaker 2: the question, but what we are seeing with insurance companies
Speaker 2: is they are taking an address based approach, so they
Speaker 2: have people walking down the streets and identifying, well, what
Speaker 2: is the risk of individual properties. Whereas in the past
Speaker 2: they might do it at a street level or a
Speaker 2: suburb level, and you'd say, okay, what is the risk
Speaker 2: of this suburb and then you would average out in
Speaker 2: a way. The insurance premiums Now, it's now based on
Speaker 2: what is the risk of your specific house, and if
Speaker 2: your house is more likely to claim, then you were
Speaker 2: going to pay a high premium. So coming back to
Speaker 2: that question, it really comes back to what is the
Speaker 2: risk of your individual house? If it is a new
Speaker 2: er house, I'd say, well, maybe you're not so worried
Speaker 2: about that because the property has been built off the ground.
Speaker 2: If there is a flood, you've got a much smaller
Speaker 2: chance of your house being affected. Because of that, you've
Speaker 2: got a much smaller chance or you're less likely to claim,
Speaker 2: and because of that, you're going to save on your premiums.
Speaker 2: Compare that to if your house is built quite low
Speaker 2: to the ground. Well, I'd say, okay, maybe it's a
Speaker 2: bit more risky. I would just caution against over worrying
Speaker 2: in the situation. If we think about how much your
Speaker 2: insurance premiums going up, it might be something like another
Speaker 2: twenty percent over the next year or the next couple
Speaker 2: of years. We've seen insurance premiums go up quite a
Speaker 2: lot over the last little bit. It's just whether that's
Speaker 2: going to it's about how much is that going to
Speaker 2: impact your personal cash flow. I would just remind people
Speaker 2: as well that when you sell your house, you really
Speaker 2: are taking a hit in terms of paying all of
Speaker 2: those sale costs. I always ballpark at at about five
Speaker 2: percent of whatever you sell your house for, because you've
Speaker 2: got to pay your real estate agent, You've got to
Speaker 2: pay your marketing, You've got to pay for taking the
Speaker 2: nice photos that are going to go on one.
Speaker 3: Raging house as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are so many costs and your lawyers, so
Speaker 2: many costs associated with selling your house. Now, if your
Speaker 2: house is worth five hundred thousand dollars and it's going
Speaker 2: to cost you twenty five thousand dollars to to seal
Speaker 2: your house, maybe you go, oh, that's actually quite a
Speaker 2: lot of money compared to the extra eight hundred dollars
Speaker 2: or five hundred dollars a year that I'm going to
Speaker 2: pay on my insurance. So we've just got to put
Speaker 2: everything into context.
Speaker 3: How long of insurance Compani's been doing this, had this
Speaker 3: change between this broad stroke by the suburb or by
Speaker 3: the street approach to risk rather than the individual house,
Speaker 3: and how long has it been in when did it change?
Speaker 2: It's happening really recently, So I would say over the
Speaker 2: last year. Over the last couple of years, we've been
Speaker 2: knowing that it's coming. Over the last year we have
Speaker 2: really seen it.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The other big change that we're seeing is most insurance companies,
Speaker 2: or more insurance companies I should say, moving to what's
Speaker 2: called a some insured approach. So rather than saying, okay,
Speaker 2: we'll ensure your house for its replacement value, you now
Speaker 2: choose what the value is and you say, cool, I'm
Speaker 2: going to insure my house for one point two million
Speaker 2: dollars or one million dollars or half a million or
Speaker 2: whatever it happens to be, rather than just the replacement value.
Speaker 2: So these two changes coming in, that does change things up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, curious. I hadn't heard of that before, and I
Speaker 3: kind of just assumed that it was the sort of
Speaker 3: the bulk approach to insurance. But it's good that they're
Speaker 3: doing this because it is a reflection on the fact
Speaker 3: that there is a lot more new builds happening in
Speaker 3: various different parts of the country as well. And it
Speaker 3: would be quite unfair, wouldn't it if you would you
Speaker 3: had a house that you know would fare quite well
Speaker 3: against the floods in somewhere that has been hit high before,
Speaker 3: because you're disincentivez people by building houses in that area.
Speaker 2: And it also is a bit of a flag to buyers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so if you are going to go buy an older
Speaker 2: house and we find that or you find that while
Speaker 2: those insurance premiums are quite high, maybe that says something
Speaker 2: about the risk of the area. It's really interesting the
Speaker 2: diversity in terms of what people pay for insurance around
Speaker 2: the country. I was really surprised when I moved to
Speaker 2: Auckland how low my insurance was compared to some of
Speaker 2: the properties that I own down in christ Church, where
Speaker 2: my insurance is a bit higher. And in fact, you
Speaker 2: well know because you live in Wellington, the insurance premiums
Speaker 2: for some Wellington properties are exceptionally high. I actually saw
Speaker 2: one investor who was paying around ten thousand dollars a
Speaker 2: year for their insurance. It was very, very high. That
Speaker 2: was through their body corporate because it was a very
Speaker 2: risky building. So some people have will pay quite a
Speaker 2: reasonable premium for their house insurance. Some people are paying
Speaker 2: a lot of money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll be back after this. We're going to talk
Speaker 3: about foreign buyers, bans, News Talk z B the Weekend
Speaker 3: Collective with Jason Walls.
Speaker 4: N You can see.
Speaker 3: News Talk zed by or with The Weekend Collective with
Speaker 3: Jason Walls filling in for Tim Beverage this week here
Speaker 3: with Ed mcnight's Economists Extraordinaire talking property, talking everything to
Speaker 3: do with the market, mortgage rates, and we're going to
Speaker 3: talk now about the foreign buyers ban. Now we know
Speaker 3: that that is still in place. It was in play
Speaker 3: before the election. The Nats wanted to bring to reverse
Speaker 3: the feign buyers ban so they can tax the heck
Speaker 3: out of a bunch of the wealthy foreigners coming into
Speaker 3: New Zealand. It was a two million dollar cap I
Speaker 3: think it was. You had to build, you had to
Speaker 3: buy a house for at least two million dollars if
Speaker 3: you wanted to get a buy the foreign buyers ban.
Speaker 3: But Winston old Winston Raymond Peters wanted nothing of the sort.
Speaker 3: He kaiboshed that one, and so the Nats had to
Speaker 3: find their tax cuts revenues somewhere else, which they did
Speaker 3: because we all got a tax cut ed. I did
Speaker 3: see an article that was quite interesting. It said that
Speaker 3: there are some rumors about this foreign buyers ban being reversed.
Speaker 3: What have you seen this? Have you heard any rumors?
Speaker 3: You have your ear to the ground.
Speaker 2: I personally haven't heard any Rumors's as just said, when
Speaker 2: you see an article online that says, oh, rumors are swirling,
Speaker 2: and you're like, I wonder who's coming up with these rumors.
Speaker 2: But the ones that I have read is that the
Speaker 2: foreign buyer ban may be relaxed for any properties that
Speaker 2: are worth five million dollars plus rather than the two
Speaker 2: million dollars that was proposed at the election. So I
Speaker 2: wanted to dive into the the numbers and say, okay,
Speaker 2: I wonder how many properties in New Zealand actually sell
Speaker 2: for five milli or more, because those must be some really,
Speaker 2: really nice properties.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing when I first ran these numbers, when
Speaker 2: the discussion was about a two million dollar cap, something
Speaker 2: like three percent of properties in New Zealand sell for
Speaker 2: two million dollars or more. In Auckland properties are more expensive,
Speaker 2: so it's something like eight percent. So I re ran
Speaker 2: my numbers today and only a minute percentage of properties
Speaker 2: actually do sell for five milli or more. I mean,
Speaker 2: throughout twenty twenty four, for the numbers that I have,
Speaker 2: it was less than point one of a percent. It
Speaker 2: was zero point zero eight percent. We're talking about very
Speaker 2: small numbers, are under two hundred in total. If we're
Speaker 2: thinking about the Auckland region, we've got those more expensive
Speaker 2: house prices, it's half a percent. And only down in
Speaker 2: Queenstown where house prices are really expensive. Do you get
Speaker 2: any significant numbers. It was about two percent last year.
Speaker 2: And then as I was driving here to talk to
Speaker 2: you today, Jason, I was thinking, okay, let's say that
Speaker 2: Nikola Willis and Christopher Luxen say yeah, we're going to
Speaker 2: relax the foreign buyer ban five million dollars plus. I
Speaker 2: was kind of thinking, well, I wonder what the reason
Speaker 2: why is, Because they were suggesting they were going to
Speaker 2: raise something along the lines of seven hundred and forty
Speaker 2: million dollars through this proposal. And then you say, okay,
Speaker 2: there's quite a decent amount of money for properties worth
Speaker 2: two million dollars or more. Well, if you then say, well, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: it's only for five million dollar properties. Plus, you cut
Speaker 2: out about ninety percent of the properties that would be taxed,
Speaker 2: and so then you say, well, maybe it's closer to
Speaker 2: seventy four million dollars worth of revenue, and you say, okay,
Speaker 2: maybe that's not worth it. Now, let's be clear that
Speaker 2: won't be the exact number. Because even though ninety we
Speaker 2: might cut out ninety percent of the properties that would
Speaker 2: have been taxed under the proposal that National took to
Speaker 2: the election, These properties that would be taxed under the
Speaker 2: five million dollar cap, though they will be much higher value.
Speaker 2: So you might not cut out all of that or
Speaker 2: a massive percentage of that text, but it'd be pretty
Speaker 2: large in my view.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just look at it. You said, seventy four
Speaker 3: million dollars. I mean, they're or thereabouts. It's pocket change
Speaker 3: for a government. That's just not enough money for them
Speaker 3: to actually I mean it's seventy four million for you
Speaker 3: and I or everybody listening. Seventy four million dollars is
Speaker 3: clearly a life changing amount of money, but when you're
Speaker 3: dealing with the amount of money that the government is,
Speaker 3: seventy four million dollars is not enough to move any
Speaker 3: dials in a degree that makes any sort of difference
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 2: And then I was thinking, as well, well, if Nicola
Speaker 2: Willis does that, then brings in you know, let's sounds
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million or even two hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2: I was just thinking, is that enough to make up
Speaker 2: for the political capital you've got to spend in order
Speaker 2: to be able to do that? Now, maybe New Zealanders
Speaker 2: don't care if properties that are worth five million dollars
Speaker 2: or more get sold to foreign buyers, given that most
Speaker 2: of us aren't buying those properties anyway. In fact, ninety
Speaker 2: nine point nine percent of us are not buying those
Speaker 2: properties at will give at least than point one of
Speaker 2: a percent of properties in New zeal And self for
Speaker 2: that five million dollars.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll tell you what, seventy four million dollars
Speaker 3: is just simply not enough money to get on the
Speaker 3: bad side of Winston Peters. He came and he kiboshed
Speaker 3: this idea from the NATS. I mean, I remember thinking
Speaker 3: at the time when I was reporting on it seems
Speaker 3: like a fair idea. You know, we need to change
Speaker 3: the way that we look about foreign buyers because if
Speaker 3: somebody is coming into New Zealand and they're a wealthy
Speaker 3: high net worth individual, they're looking for wealthy high networth
Speaker 3: individual houses. So we're taking away not just the house,
Speaker 3: but the person's job. Winston saw all of these arguments
Speaker 3: and decided, Nope, it's not going to have it. It's
Speaker 3: not my political stripes. And so seventy four million dollars
Speaker 3: is not enough money to go cap in hand to
Speaker 3: Winston and say can we please change this? And I'll
Speaker 3: tell you why. Nicola Willis, when she was at the
Speaker 3: Half year Economic and Fiscal update before December, was asked
Speaker 3: this very question and she gave me a very very
Speaker 3: interesting answer. She said, we asked, you know, you're looking
Speaker 3: for revenue. You've said that time and time again. You're
Speaker 3: looking for revenue. The economy is not as good as
Speaker 3: it was. You're missing a bunch of tax revenue. What
Speaker 3: new taxes are you thinking of? And I think it
Speaker 3: was I think unprompted or somebody asked her about their
Speaker 3: foreign buyers bam, and she said, well, you know, we
Speaker 3: are in a coalition agreement, a coalition where that has
Speaker 3: been agreed, but you know there's new coalition agreements, there's
Speaker 3: new terms and governments. It might be something we can
Speaker 3: look at down the road. So she's clearly got it
Speaker 3: in the back of her mind. Still, it's clearly something
Speaker 3: that it's in the NAT's wheelhouse. They just need to
Speaker 3: win Winston over.
Speaker 2: The other thing that I would anticipate that Nicola Willis
Speaker 2: would look at is well, is the fifteen percent tanks
Speaker 2: that we proposed at the election still appropriate? So I
Speaker 2: was also thinking as I was driving here, because that's
Speaker 2: where most of us.
Speaker 3: Sounds a productive drive, you had, well, that's what we
Speaker 3: all do.
Speaker 2: Right, that's how thinking time in the car unless you've
Speaker 2: got the kids in the back seat, you drop. I
Speaker 2: was thinking, well, how could she get Winston over the line? Well,
Speaker 2: maybe it's not a fifteen percent tax on the purchase price.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a twenty five percent or a twenty percent tank.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's scratchet it way up. Maybe that's the other
Speaker 2: lever that she can pull to bring in more tax
Speaker 2: revenue so that we get that number up a bit.
Speaker 2: And again it's probably going to be more than seventy
Speaker 2: four million dollars just because those properties that do sell
Speaker 2: are at a very very high amount. But you know,
Speaker 2: it kind of gives you the scale of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Interesting. I mean you would have to think from a rich,
Speaker 3: wealthy individual that's coming into New Zealand. How and I
Speaker 3: always get the terminology wrong here. You're an economist, how
Speaker 3: elastic or inelastic is that in terms of attacks on
Speaker 3: a house? If it goes from fifteen to twenty would
Speaker 3: that be enough to prevent you from coming in?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So what you're really asking is are people going to
Speaker 2: pay it if you increase it from fifteen to twenty
Speaker 2: five percent? Well, one thing that's really interesting is how
Speaker 2: expensive other houses are. So often we talk in New
Speaker 2: Zealand that our houses are expensive and they are relative
Speaker 2: to our incomes. But if we look at some really
Speaker 2: rich overseas countries, their houses are really expensive. So it's
Speaker 2: quite interesting. I was over in Switzerland over the hool
Speaker 2: of that. I was really lucky to go over there.
Speaker 2: And of course whenever I go overseas or to another
Speaker 2: town that's not Auckland, I do want most of us
Speaker 2: to I look at the houses for sale in the
Speaker 2: real estate and the real estate company's windows, and it
Speaker 2: is amazing, like eyeboggling, how expensive houses are in places
Speaker 2: like Switzerland and and parts of Germany, and even in
Speaker 2: parts of China. You know, properties in Shanghai or Soul
Speaker 2: in Korea, they can be incredibly expensive. So somebody could
Speaker 2: sell an apartment and Soul come over here and with
Speaker 2: the exchange rate and still buy a really, really nice house.
Speaker 2: Because our properties to us are expensive, to some foreign
Speaker 2: buyers from some countries, they can look relatively affordable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, interesting stuff and will be back after this news
Speaker 3: talk ZBI the.
Speaker 1: One roofed Property of the Week on the weekend.
Speaker 3: Collective Ladies and Gentlemen start your end. No, don't start
Speaker 3: your engines. The property of the week this week is
Speaker 3: down in Warnaca, forty Riversley Road. Now, this is a
Speaker 3: beautiful five bedroom, three bathroom, two car garage.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: It's the house itself three hundred and fifty five square meters,
Speaker 3: the land is one thousand, four hundred and nineteen square meters.
Speaker 3: It goes to auction on the February the twentieth estimated
Speaker 3: just a cool two point ninety three million, the low
Speaker 3: two point four nine, the high three point three seven,
Speaker 3: with an RV of two point two six. I can
Speaker 3: see myself living in this place. It's got this beautiful pool.
Speaker 3: The sunset views are amazing. That's got this giant, giant
Speaker 3: kitchen island.
Speaker 2: What do you think The amazing thing about Warnica is
Speaker 2: it's not necessarily about the house. That's not why you
Speaker 2: move there. You move there because when you look at it,
Speaker 2: the hills and the mountains and they're absolutely golden. That's
Speaker 2: the sort of place you want to be. The really
Speaker 2: interesting thing about this house, and I'd suggest people go
Speaker 2: have a look at this song one roof forty Riversley Road.
Speaker 2: We said it was is a really good place for
Speaker 2: people who want to go as a holiday home. And
Speaker 2: I'll tell you the reason why. If you look at
Speaker 2: the floor plan, what you want if you're going to
Speaker 2: buy an expensive holiday home is you want enough space
Speaker 2: for all of your friends to come. And what you
Speaker 2: often see in architectural houses like this is you'll have
Speaker 2: one large master bedroom which is exactly what you've got.
Speaker 2: It's got a huge on suite, and then what you
Speaker 2: often see is there will be a number of other
Speaker 2: bedrooms that are all exactly the same, all identical. And
Speaker 2: that's really good because then if you have a couple
Speaker 2: of friends over who are all couples to stay, if
Speaker 2: you've got three million dollars to spend on ours, then
Speaker 2: they don't get jealous of each other. It's all the same,
Speaker 2: so it's really good. And you actually see that with
Speaker 2: this house. You have another bedroom that's got an on suite,
Speaker 2: and you've got three bedrooms that are all identical, so
Speaker 2: really really good rooms for kids and also for guests.
Speaker 2: So if you do happen to have a cool three
Speaker 2: million dollars, this is probably quite good shopping, I would
Speaker 2: have thought. With amazing views of those mountains and and
Speaker 2: just the best place to have guests over for those holidays,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure we're all thinking about now that we're
Speaker 2: just coming back to work.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what. It's also got a dedicated kids
Speaker 3: media room, which sounds incredible.
Speaker 2: Well, of course, one of the main things you want
Speaker 2: to do when you go away on holidays. No, we
Speaker 2: don't want any of that family time, Chuck, the kids
Speaker 2: all go off into the media where you're Sally and
Speaker 2: Tim go into the kids media room. We're off having
Speaker 2: our rose wine out on the deck as adult time.
Speaker 2: So check it out. That's forty riversly road on one roof.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean probably you could do some great barbecuing
Speaker 3: out there. In the break you were telling me about
Speaker 3: your charcoal barbecue. Do you think you can get some
Speaker 3: good charcoal barbecuing done out there?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, that's the amazing thing. When you buy a house,
Speaker 2: you've really got to look at the channels. Because what
Speaker 2: I was able to school when I just bought my
Speaker 2: house was this. I think it's probably worth about two
Speaker 2: or three grand, this massive charcoal barbecue, which I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure the previous owners just couldn't be bothered moving. So
Speaker 2: we got that. So I was very happy so after this,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go and I've bought my charcoal. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go fire that up for the first time. Because
Speaker 2: young guys in their thirties, my understanding is you make
Speaker 2: one of three things your personality's way.
Speaker 3: Where you're going to say, barbecuing, golf or running.
Speaker 2: That's pretty close. Yeah, exercise and meat or alcohol is
Speaker 2: one of the other ones, and golf. So maybe I'll
Speaker 2: see if we can make meat part of my personality
Speaker 2: and my soluberity.
Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds like you've got some pretty good
Speaker 3: things on the menu.
Speaker 1: Ed.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us. It's been a
Speaker 3: fantastic hour. We got the Parenting Hour coming up. Next,
Speaker 3: the Parenting Squad will return to News Talk z B.
Speaker 3: It's just about five o'clock.
Speaker 1: For more from the weekend collective, listen live to News
Speaker 1: Talk zed B we Care from three pm, or follow
Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.