1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Kiyota. 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a compilation episode of 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: The Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the New 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 2: Zealand Herald. It's been a huge year for sport here 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 2: in New Zealand. In one weekend in October, Team New 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: Zealand took to the water in Barcelona and took home 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: the America's Cup for the third time in a row, 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: while the White Ferns won the ICCT twenty Women's World 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 2: Cup Final. There were major wins across the board for 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: the Black Caps, the Silver Ferns and our latest football team, 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 2: Auckland FC. But in this major sporting year, there was 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 2: perhaps no bigger cause for celebration than the Paris Olympics. 13 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: Krewe athletes bagged more gold medals at Paris than any 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: other Olympic Games in history, with the likes of Dame 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: Lisa Harrington and Lydia Coe ensuring their place in the 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: history books. To rising stars like Hamish Kerr and Finn Butcher, 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 2: there were plenty of Kiwi sporting heavyweights in action, with 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: the games over and the four year journey to Los 19 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: Angeles already beginning for some. In August, we recapped the 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: highs and lows with News Talk z'b's sports reporter and 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 2: gold sport commentator Elliott Smith. Elliott, let's start with the highlights. 22 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: If you had to pick just one Kiwi medal to celebrate, 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 2: which one would it be? 24 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 3: Well, goodness, Chelsea coming in hot early on. Look, I 25 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 3: think for me it'd be the high jump of Hamish Kerr. 26 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: I think he. 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 3: Overcame some issues in the qualifying and then in the 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: final just brought her out and was so so good 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 3: in that and the drama that came in that with 30 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 3: the jump off and everything like that. You know, New 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 3: Zealand's medals in the track and field have been few 32 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: and far between. You think of Valerie Adams in recent times. 33 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 3: Tom Walsh to win a gold medal in something like 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: the high jump I thought was exceptional and just the 35 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: celebration racing around Star de France, around the turf and 36 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 3: celebrating in that manner that one stands out to me. 37 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 3: But trying to narrow it down very very difficult. But 38 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 3: I thought that was a pretty special one from a 39 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: New Zealand perspective. 40 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: And it's interesting, hey, because they both decided to do 41 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 2: the jump off in the end, and I've seen some 42 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: American reports giving the American competitor some slack for being selfish, 43 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: whereas in Tokyo didn't they share the medal and then 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: got the same amount of slack. 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: That's right. I don't think you're going to win. 46 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: I think that's always going to be a difficult conversation 47 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 3: because some people will go and like in Tokyo, oh, 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: you know, it's not really in the what is in 49 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: the Olympic spirit, but it isn't to have a shared 50 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 3: gold medal. This time around, they didn't share it, and 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 3: there was a distinct gold distinct silver. I think for me, 52 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 3: I thought that was probably the way to go about it. 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 3: You've come this far, you're going to get the least 54 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 3: silver anyway, why not try and split it and go 55 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 3: for the gold. I thought it added extra drama, extra tension. Look, 56 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 3: I'm sure what a being special for Hamish Curre if 57 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: he shared the gold medal, But in some ways sharing 58 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: the gold almost like sharing a silver. It's not quite 59 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 3: as distinct as the two. Whereas with Hamish Kerr, now 60 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 3: he knows he is the best high jumper in the world. 61 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 3: He's won the Olympic gold medal, he's not sharing it 62 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 3: with anyone, and he gets there on his own. 63 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: So Dame Lisa Carrington the goat in the boat with 64 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 2: eight golds. Now she's now ranked sixteenth of all time, 65 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: ahead of a Usane Bolt, the only New Zealander in 66 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: the top one hundred ready. 67 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 4: To race in the women's kayak for if they can't 68 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 4: see the finish line, it is gold for New Zealand 69 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 4: and the sixth golden moment for Dame Lisa. New Zealand's 70 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 4: supposed to decorate an Olympian. Lisa Carrington strikes gold again. 71 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: Are we ever going to see another one like her? 72 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 3: I don't know that we will, and we should treasure 73 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: it for as long as her career lasts. Whether she 74 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 3: decides to go again for LA in four years time 75 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: or decides that that's enough, you wouldn't blame her either way. 76 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 3: If he decides that her eight gold medals is enough, 77 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: then ghisolutely good on her. But the success that she's 78 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: had in not only the individual by but what she's 79 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: brought to the K two and the K four has 80 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: been immense for New Zealand and I think obviously she's 81 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: our greatest Olympian, But just looking at the way that 82 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: she brings others up to her skill level. In the 83 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: K two and the K four, they wouldn't win without her. 84 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: She's like that motor right at the front of the boat. 85 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 3: She's so metronomic in the way that she gets in 86 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 3: the kayak. Obviously she's got incredible strength, but there's something 87 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 3: that she just seems to have a symbiotic relationship with 88 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 3: the boat and the water and the paddle that when 89 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: she gets on the water, she is completely unstoppable. She 90 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: knows the beats that she has to hit, she knows 91 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 3: where she needs to be to win a race, and 92 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: she pulls along the other person in the boat and 93 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 3: the K to the other three in the K four 94 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 3: without wanting to diminish their success as well. But she's 95 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 3: so integral to that. So we need to absolutely treasure 96 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 3: while at last, and to think that she's been at 97 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 3: the top of her game in a number of boats 98 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 3: right from London twenty twelve through to this Olympics in 99 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, now at thirty five years of age, 100 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 3: through twelve years of success and no one has really 101 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: got close to her, especially in the individual events, is remarkable. Look, 102 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 3: I wouldn't all out going to Los Angeles in four 103 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: years time. She doesn't look like she is being close 104 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 3: to me in court yet, especially in the individual boats. 105 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 3: So hey, we might see her extend on that success 106 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 3: as in New Zealander and maybe try and catch some 107 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 3: of those others that are at the top of the 108 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: all timetable. 109 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:16,119 Speaker 1: For the world. 110 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: Well, after she did her races, it looked like she 111 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 2: could go and do them again. 112 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. 113 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 3: She definitely seems to FaZe that she's done the race, 114 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 3: and everyone else looks like they're about to vomit on 115 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 3: the block once they get out, and she's like fresh 116 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 3: as a daisy. It's remarkable that she can do that. 117 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 3: And you know, thirty five, she's still young. A lot 118 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 3: of the competitors around and the clerking seem to go to. 119 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: Their to late thirty. 120 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 3: So it's probably a fifty to fifty call as to 121 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: whether she competes again, and LA certainly didn't close the 122 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 3: door on that necessarily, so I imagine she'll take some 123 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: time now to figure out whether she does want to 124 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: go out to LA and where that competitive energy still 125 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: burns bright. And already what she's done as Schelsea has 126 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: been remarkable. If she was able to build on that 127 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: in La it would be quite incredible. 128 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: And I can see her hanging around the Olympics as 129 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: well and really building up the younger generations like she 130 00:05:59,320 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: already kind. 131 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: Of yeah, that's right. 132 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 3: I mean the competitors or the teammates rather she had 133 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: in the K two and the K four are still 134 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 3: very very young and her experience is invaluable. It was 135 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 3: the flag bearer at the closing ceremony along with Finn Butcher, 136 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 3: so that is remarkable. I imagine she's got a great 137 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 3: future in the sport, whether it's as a coach or 138 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 3: a mentor whatever it might be. As I mentioned before, 139 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 3: that relationship that she seems to have with the boat 140 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 3: is you know, intrinsic, it seems to be in her soul. 141 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 3: But if she can pass down some of those tips, 142 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: so the next generation there might be another someone who 143 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: can come close to Lisa Carrington or maybe replicate some 144 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 3: of those efforts on the water and the Olympics to 145 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 3: come so. 146 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: Lydia Coe's gold gives her a complete set of medals, 147 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: a first for a golfer of any gender at the Olympics, 148 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: and qualifies her for the LGPA Hall of Fame. Is 149 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: there anything else for her to do or she basically 150 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 2: just clocked a sport at twenty seven. 151 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: She's long talked about wanting to retire at the age 152 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 3: of thirty. Even back when she was a teenager, she 153 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 3: sort of said she's not in golf for life. This 154 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 3: isn't going to be everything. She's obviously very very good 155 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 3: at it, but has other things that she wants to 156 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 3: do once she hits thirty. And I spoke to her 157 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 3: before the Olympics and she was still quite set on that, 158 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 3: saying it would be her last Olympic Games. I mean, 159 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: you can look at her career and go she was 160 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 3: absolute prodigy, very very young, switched to being a pro 161 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: one major's, you know, when she was still very young. 162 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 3: Hasn't had a major win in a while in terms 163 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 3: of those events every year, but completed the Olympics the 164 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 3: best Olympic golfer as it stands in history with the 165 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: three different medals. Maybe she would like more majors, but 166 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: she seems to rise when the Olympics come on. It 167 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: just seems to be an event that she can play 168 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: a best golf at. And whether it's just different for 169 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 3: the majors where she has had some success, but maybe 170 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: not as much as she would like. She seems to 171 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: target the Olympics. And while we don't see her down 172 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 3: in New Zealand very long, she's very proud in New Zealand. 173 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 3: It always talks about how proud she is to represent 174 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: New Zealand on the LPGA to her, but also when 175 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: you're doing it at the Olympics, wearing the silver fern, 176 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 3: you're hearing the national anthem at the end, there's something 177 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: clearly very special about that. And look, I know she 178 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: said it's her last Olympics. Maybe she might get her 179 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 3: arm twisted. You know, she plays a lot of her 180 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 3: golf in America and has residency there as well. 181 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: Whether there is a prospect she might. 182 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: Play in LA twenty twenty eight at the stage, no, 183 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 3: but similar Lisa Carrington wouldn't rule it out. 184 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 5: Co kept her calm and finished in style with a 185 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 5: birdie the woman in all black on the final green, 186 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 5: enjoying the adulation. 187 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: And obviously we can't shout out absolutely everyone, but who 188 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: else caught your eye? 189 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 6: Oh? 190 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: Look, Alexandres was phenomenal and what a way to finish 191 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 3: the Olympic Games. With a couple of gold medals. I 192 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: know her on the track and the Kien and then 193 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: in the sprint. She is absolutely remarkable what she can 194 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 3: do and still so very young. She's got a couple 195 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: more Olympic cycles left in her and I really love 196 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 3: the way that nothing seems to face Alexandrews. She's got 197 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 3: an eye for the finish line, or eye for the valodrome. 198 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: She just absolutely puts her head. 199 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 3: Down and just peddles her her heart out and at 200 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 3: times it doesn't look like as any other competitors out 201 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 3: in the valodrome. That's the kind of the way that 202 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 3: she races. She's just doing it knowing that if she 203 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 3: hits her marks, and similar to Lisa Carrington, if she 204 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 3: does what she needs to do, she's confident that she 205 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: will get the gold medal. Success so'd win in the sprint, 206 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: in the Kerran, two big events in the track. Cycling 207 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: was absolutely special. So for me, that's the other heart 208 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 3: of the Games, at least Andrews winning those gold medals. 209 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: This Olympics saw the return of surfing, skateboarding and sport 210 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: climbing and an attempt to bring in breaking or break dancing. 211 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: On those first three which are now core Olympic sports. 212 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: Do you think do you think that which. 213 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: Audience all three of them still? 214 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: To be honest, I think surfing this time felt a 215 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: little bit isolated. 216 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: It was held in Tahiti. 217 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: Obviously, you know there's a French connection there, but it 218 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: just felt like the tyranny of distance was so great 219 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: between that it just didn't feel connected to the Olympics. 220 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 3: So I think that was an issue. I'm still not sure. 221 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 3: It's rarely hit its straps in the Olympics yet. Skateboarding 222 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 3: I think is worthy being there. I think it's a 223 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: real sport that can connect with young people. The Olympics 224 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: is trying to shed this image of being a little 225 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 3: too fuddy duddy, and I think events like skateboarding, you know, 226 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 3: they really belong. It connects with the youth and the 227 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 3: talent that's on display there is very, very impressive. And 228 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 3: I really like the sport climbing. I think that's a 229 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 3: great event. It's rapid, it's fast, seeing the New Zealanders 230 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 3: involved there, but just seeing how quickly they can go 231 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 3: up the war on the straight speed climbing is five 232 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 3: seconds to race up a wall. Those the kind of 233 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 3: events the Olympics should be looking at to try and innovate. 234 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 3: The are popular events on their own, bring them into 235 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: the Olympic fold fields, right. 236 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: And do you reckon breaking is one and done? 237 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 7: Do you think? 238 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: I suspect so? Yeah, I'm not sure that entirely work. 239 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 3: Poor old ray gun out of Australia. 240 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: She gave it a go, could you imagine? 241 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 3: But this is the Olympics. This isn't about giving you 242 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 3: the go, this is about the pinnacle. Yeah, it just 243 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 3: felt a little bit out of it. It felt like a 244 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: character from a crysal lily sketch. 245 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: In all honesty, it felt so out of place. It 246 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 2: was so it was awful. 247 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, the memes have been constant in the 248 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 3: last couple of days since she competed, and I feel 249 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 3: sorry for her to an extent, but it was a 250 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 3: little bit silly. 251 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: The whole thing, the breakdancing. 252 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to be back and I 253 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: don't think it works, So we can just consign that 254 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: to the Olympic rubbishman. 255 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: I think in her. 256 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 8: Ossie Green and Gold trackies we saw a kangaroo hop, 257 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 8: the sprinkler headstad and all of it earned her exactly 258 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 8: zero points from the judges. 259 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: I think justice for Reagun anyway. I think she went 260 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 2: out there and she gave it a go. She was 261 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 2: the best Australia guy not known for our breakdancing talent. 262 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 3: No, it's not going to be in Brisbane in twenty 263 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: thirty two, so poor old Reagun it I don't think 264 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 3: we'll be competing at a home Olympics. 265 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: Kayak cross made its jaboo as well and clinched us 266 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 2: a gold medal for Finn Butcher. Are you excited to 267 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 2: see that continuing? 268 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 8: Am? 269 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: I thought that was one of the highlights of the 270 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 3: Games in all honesty. In terms of the new sports, 271 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: it's almost like the TV shirt gladiators. You know, you've 272 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: got some tension between the competitors. They're allowed to hit 273 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: each other within reason, They're allowed to bash each other 274 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 3: with the boats. They're all scrambling down this core and 275 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 3: not only that, they're going on a whitewater rapid course, 276 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 3: so you're trying to beat your competitors at the line. 277 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: It felt like it really worked and there was a 278 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 3: It was great to see a Kiwi win that, but 279 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 3: I thought it was an event that the Olympics kind 280 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: of needs sometimes you're very much competing in sort of 281 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 3: time trials or races in lanes. This is you know, 282 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 3: going elbowing each other that you can do pretty much 283 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 3: whatever you like within reason. So I thought that was 284 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 3: a real success for the clat cross. So I'm excited 285 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 3: to see that back in four years time. 286 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: The twenty twenty four Olympics saw sporting highs as well 287 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 2: as heartbreak for some, but no competition garnered more controversy 288 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 2: than the women's boxing. The inclusion of Algeria's Emman Hakliff 289 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: and Taiwan's lynn U Teng sparked a firestorm. Their involvement 290 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: was further exacerbated after Italy's Angela Karini called off her 291 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: match against hercleif after only a few seconds, prompt outrage 292 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 2: online from the lanks of Donald Trump, JK. Rowling, Elon Musk, 293 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: and our own Winston Peters. We spoke to University of 294 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: Waikato Professor of Sociology in Sport and Gender, Holly Thorpe 295 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: about the controversy and about the role of trans women 296 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: in sport. The misinformation and cruelty directed towards these two boxes, 297 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: these two women has been immense They've been misgendered and 298 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 2: labeled men. Pierce Morgan tweeted a photo of Khalif and said, 299 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: if this is a biological female, I'm a biological ardvark. 300 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: For example. Is this anything other than just outright discrimination 301 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: coming for a muscular athlete with short hair who doesn't 302 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 2: look I suppose like your stereotypical woman. 303 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 7: Yeah, the abuse was wide ranging, and we definitely had 304 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 7: a number of very high profile figures from Trump to 305 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 7: you know, people with huge followings, making very crude and 306 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 7: humiliating kind of remarks about her gender identity. And I 307 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 7: think a lot of people kind of looked at the 308 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 7: photos and made decisions themselves, thinking, oh, you know, she's 309 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 7: got short hair, a strong jawline, and actually gender's much 310 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 7: more complex than what we look like or we have 311 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 7: short hair, and so I think a lot of people 312 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 7: got kind of caught out by assuming or making assumptions 313 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 7: and yeah, like you're saying, unfortunately, this kind of online 314 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 7: abuse was very widespread and it's harmful. This really hurts athletes, 315 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 7: but it also hurts the next generation of young athletes, 316 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 7: who you know, can see that if you don't perform 317 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 7: a particular version of femininity, you might get this kind 318 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 7: of level of abuse which is very harmful. 319 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 2: At Tokyo in twenty twenty one, New Zealander Laurel Hubbard 320 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: competed in the weightlifting as a trans woman. Have sporting 321 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: codes progressed in the last three years in addressing trans 322 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: women and those with DSD yes. 323 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 6: I think I mentioned this before. It's very uneven landscape. 324 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 7: So whereas the International Limbic Committee set out this framework 325 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 7: really trying to be guided by inclusive understandings of gender, 326 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 7: this is only a framework, so they're kind of using 327 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 7: this to encourage other international organizations to follow in their lead, 328 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 7: but others are not right, and others are doing their 329 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 7: own thing, like World Athletics are still using testosterone testing, 330 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,359 Speaker 7: and it's yeah. I think what we're seeing is some countries, 331 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 7: some sports organizations really trying to move towards more inclusive 332 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 7: understandings of gender as it relates to sport, and the 333 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 7: drawing upon the research and lots of consultation to do so. 334 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 6: And then we've got other organizations that. 335 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 7: Are still basically using pretty archaic methods of sex testing. 336 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: Now I should mention that DSD is an acronym for 337 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: differences in sex development. So the NHS says it's a 338 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 2: rare group of conditions involving genes, hormones, and reproductive organs, 339 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: including genitals. It means a person's sex development is just 340 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: different to most other peoples, I suppose. So when it 341 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: comes to DSD, do we just need to accept that 342 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: some people have a biological advantage in sport? Say in 343 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 2: the same breath that Lebron James would easily win a 344 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: game of one on one against a five foot five man. 345 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 6: Oh, I think you know you're right. 346 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 7: I mean, the bodies that we're born into, whether it's 347 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 7: our height, whether it's our hand size, whether it's our 348 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 7: foot size, will give some people biological advantages. And I 349 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 7: wouldn't say that testosterone or the sex body that we're 350 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 7: born into is just one part of many aspects that 351 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 7: make for strong or lesser than performances. But also you 352 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 7: can think about performance, it's also the country that you're 353 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 7: born into, the kinds of funding and support that wraps 354 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 7: around an athlete. Do you have funding for a good 355 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 7: coach and good facilities and enough money to be able 356 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 7: to travel to compete and train elsewhere. So there's so 357 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 7: many things that come into performance, and biology is one 358 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 7: of them. But biology, it's much more than just sex. 359 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And what I find interesting about this debate as well, 360 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: this is the Olympics, so this is the world's best 361 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: of the best. Algeria is going to send their best 362 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: women's boxer to the Olympics, just like Jamaica sent Usain 363 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: Bolt to the Olympics. Did the likes of Usain Bolt, 364 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 2: for example, have to undergo any kind of testing other 365 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 2: than perhaps drug testing to prove why he ran the 366 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: way that he ran. 367 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 7: My understanding that male athletes have never had to undergo 368 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 7: gender verification, And you're right. We look at Michael Phelps 369 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 7: for example. You know, huge feet, tall, big hands. I mean, 370 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 7: these are biological advantages in swimming, but we're not accusing 371 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 7: him of any unfair advantage, right, But yeah, you're right. 372 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 6: These questions are directed at women, powerful, strong woman who 373 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 6: challenge particular versions of gender identity. But often it's not 374 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 6: all women who are targeted by these types of questioning. 375 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 6: It's often non white athletes, black and brown sportswomen in 376 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 6: particular are those who, when they are strong, when they 377 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 6: are powerful, when they are winning, are often questioned about 378 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 6: their gender identities and then have to undergo, you know, 379 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 6: these pretty horrific kinds of practices to prove they are 380 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 6: a woman. So I think there's a whole lot of 381 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 6: not just gendered issues here, but also of race that's 382 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 6: important to address. I think they're going on here in 383 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 6: this case as well. 384 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 7: But these are ethical issues which are always complex. 385 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 2: In October, New Zealand's newest A League team, Auckland DEFC, 386 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 2: was prepping for its debut against the Brisbane Raw at 387 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 2: its home ground, Mount Smart Stadium and in front of 388 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 2: a sellout crowd of nearly twenty five thousand spectators. The 389 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 2: Black Knight It's defeated the Raw to nil. Since then, 390 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 2: the team's gone from strength to strength, continuing their unbeaten 391 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: run with a two to two draw in their visit 392 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: to Melbourne last weekend. Their debut weekend was also one 393 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: that drew eyes onto another Kiwi making waves in an 394 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 2: international sports setting. Liam Lawson, the rising F one star, 395 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: would make his debut as a full time driver for 396 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: Red Bull at the US Grand Prix and is now 397 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: waiting for an official decision on if that will continue 398 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 2: next year. The Front Page caught up with News Talk 399 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 2: ZB Sports news director Clay Wilson and senior sports reporter 400 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 2: Elliott Smith to talk about these exciting times for Kiwis 401 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: in sport and whether it's the start of our country 402 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 2: caring about something other than international rugby. 403 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 3: They've got a pretty good roster, but sometimes in the 404 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 3: A league that doesn't mean very much at all. Sometimes 405 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 3: a good roster gets you in mid table, sometimes it 406 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: gets you towards the top of the and sometimes it 407 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 3: gets you right down the bottom. I guess that the 408 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 3: proof will be as the season goes on, how they 409 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 3: build and how they come together as a team. 410 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:09,719 Speaker 1: They've got the right parts. 411 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 3: They've got a lot of exciting players from both New Zealand, 412 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 3: former internationals and current internationals, and also some from abroad 413 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 3: as well, so I think it's a pretty good mix. 414 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 3: And what it has shown is that there is enough 415 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 3: players to go around when you add in some international players, 416 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 3: some All Whites returning home that across the all Whites 417 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 3: storry a Crosswalkland f C and the Wellington Phoenix, there 418 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 3: are enough to have two professional sides in New Zealand. 419 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 3: Whether they can sustain it commercially and fan wise, I 420 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 3: think is the big question around it, because football is 421 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 3: not the kind of sport in New Zealand that it 422 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 3: is abroad. The Wellington Phoenix have had a good backing 423 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 3: from their city and from others around the country for 424 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: some time, but whether it's enough to be commercially sustainable 425 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 3: as a fan driven enterprise, I think the jury is 426 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 3: still out. There's going to be a lot of hype 427 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 3: around this first game this weekend, around the first derby's, 428 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 3: but as the season goes on, will those fans continue 429 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 3: to show up? Will they show up again in round twenty, 430 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: Will they show up again in round one twenty twenty 431 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 3: five to twenty six. That's the real question for me 432 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 3: whether it can be sustained. 433 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 2: Well, what does the arrival of Auckland FC actually mean 434 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: for the Wellington Phoenix. Are they happy about having a 435 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 2: new local team to compete against? 436 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: Not particularly. 437 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 3: I don't see though, because it cuts off their commercial 438 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 3: opportunities to an extent as well, that they can't go 439 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 3: up to Auckland or go to big businesses and go 440 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 3: We're the only football team. If you want to tap 441 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 3: into football in this country, you have to go to 442 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 3: the Wellington Phoenix and have to be sponsored or part 443 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: of our sponsorship team, So that cuts off the point 444 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 3: of difference to an extent, and now there's two, so 445 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 3: that is an issue for them that they've got to 446 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 3: try and figure out. They've had Auckland as a semi 447 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 3: base or a second base for a few years now 448 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 3: and they've taken games to Eden Park very successfully, got 449 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 3: some decent crowds there. They can't really do that anymore. 450 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 3: We can't go up to the home base of where 451 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: another team is based now look at christ Church and 452 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: other markets to try and extend their reach around there. 453 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 3: So I think they'll enjoy the derby games, but whether 454 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 3: they actually enjoy the presence of a second New Zealand 455 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 3: team in the A League, I'm not entirely sure. 456 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: I think the jury's out for the Phoenix in that one. 457 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 2: I mean it's going to be ultimately a good thing 458 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 2: for football in New Zealand right to have more pathways 459 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 2: into a professional sporting career. I mean, rugby is our 460 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 2: national sport, but I think football is really popular with 461 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 2: kids at the moment. 462 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 9: Clay right, well, football quite a long time ago, and 463 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 9: Elliott will correct me if I'm wrong here, but at 464 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 9: a junior level went past rugby in terms of numbers, 465 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 9: not necessarily at a youth or secondary school level, and 466 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 9: that may have changed since, but the likes of football 467 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 9: and basketball were really boomed in the last ten, fifteen, 468 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 9: twenty years. So those players of course now are coming 469 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 9: through to be young adults, teenagers, players that want to 470 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 9: perhaps or are talented enough to move into the professional ranks. 471 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 9: Of course, if there's only one professional team here, you 472 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 9: only have one option. Now they instead of maybe ten 473 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 9: spots on a roster for one team, you have twenty 474 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 9: or twenty five spots that those talented young New Zealand 475 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 9: players have the ability to go into. So yeah, of 476 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 9: course that's a good thing. Whether the Phoenix are so 477 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 9: stoked about that because now there's competition for that young 478 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 9: talent coming through, and you know, of course that young 479 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 9: talent is good for them in a way that you 480 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 9: don't pay a lot for it either, so you know, 481 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 9: you keep a bit of money in the coffers to 482 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 9: go splash abroad. But definitely for those young players coming 483 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 9: through a good thing to have that extra team as 484 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 9: a pathway to the next step to Europe, to the 485 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 9: United States, to these kind of other markets. 486 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: Nont Liam Lawson Clay This has been years in the making, 487 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: hasn't it. I feel like we've been talking about him 488 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: returning to Formula one for donkeys' years, so why is 489 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: now the time frame? 490 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 9: Well, it's been a bit of a I don't know 491 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,239 Speaker 9: if saga's the right word, but that's sort of how 492 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 9: it's felt, especially in the last kind of six to 493 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 9: twelve months. Of course, he made that replacement stint last 494 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 9: year when Daniel Ricardo got injured, and he did so 495 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 9: so well in those five races that the expectation was 496 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 9: that he was going to get a full time drive 497 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 9: for this year. That of course never eventuated and he 498 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 9: had to step back into that reserve role. But really 499 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 9: this is something that Liam Lawson has probably been working 500 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 9: towards on the verge of for the last four or 501 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 9: five years really. Of course, you know, starting out in 502 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 9: his younger years back here, but then went to Europe 503 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 9: I think about sixteen or seventeen years old with the 504 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 9: backing of a large number of kind of motorsport enthusiasts 505 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 9: here in New Zealand and then has worked his way 506 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 9: to this point and really in the last kind of 507 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 9: a few months. You know, Formula one is a cutthroat business, 508 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 9: as always Generally what happens is that someone has to 509 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 9: not perform for you to perform. And Liam's spoken about 510 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 9: this already this week, and Daniel Ricardo was brought into 511 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 9: that second seat at Racing Balls, which is the second 512 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 9: team for Red Bull there effectively their junior team, to 513 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 9: see if he could rediscover that form he had early 514 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 9: in his career and get back to that Red Bull 515 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 9: main team that of course never eventuated, and they've decided 516 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 9: to bring Liam in. And I think the timing of 517 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 9: this is really telling as to what Liam's future looks 518 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 9: like next year because they haven't confirmed a deal, but 519 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 9: we're going to see over this next six race is 520 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 9: what he's going to do, and then they're going to 521 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 9: make a decision. 522 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: I think off the back of. 523 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 8: That, you know, it's it's the six rounds left of 524 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 8: the season, so I've come in at a difficult time. 525 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 8: It's going to be a. 526 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 6: Very challenging point obviously. 527 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 8: You know, all these guys have done three quarters of 528 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 8: a season now, so I have to try and try 529 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 8: and compete with that now at tracks that I haven't 530 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 8: done as well, So it's going to be challenging. I've 531 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 8: spoken to my parents, I've spoken to everybody that's that's 532 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 8: been behind me on this journey, and it's very very special. 533 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 8: But we don't have much time to really let this 534 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 8: sin can We're going to get straight to work. 535 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 2: Well, there must be so much pressure on him to deliver, 536 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 2: given how long he's waited for this, and the fact 537 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 2: that he's replacing Daniel Ricardo. 538 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 9: Well, we saw what he could do last year, stepping 539 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 9: in at much shorter notice, and he did very well. 540 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 9: He clearly is someone who can adapt very quickly. He 541 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 9: has the skills, he has the talent. So I think 542 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 9: you know he's coming into it this time having already 543 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 9: gone through that and shown and proven that he's a 544 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 9: driver that I can get into a Formula one car 545 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 9: pretty quickly and get up to speed with the rest 546 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 9: of the field. The difference this time, however, is that 547 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 9: last time there was really not I mean, he won't 548 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 9: agree with this, but the perception was there wasn't that 549 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 9: much pressure on him because he was brought in so 550 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 9: late notice, he was only in there as an injury replacement. 551 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 9: It was like, well, let's see what he does. We're 552 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 9: not really expecting anything of him. But as I've already 553 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 9: alluded to, these last six races this time around are 554 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 9: really a test case for what Liam's going to be 555 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 9: doing next year, and so that there really is pressure 556 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 9: on to perform and perform well if he wants to 557 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 9: ensure that he a gets a full time drive with 558 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 9: Racing Bulls that second team, But there's a lot of 559 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 9: talk about whether he might even be in contention for 560 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 9: the proper Red Bull team and that seat alongside Max 561 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 9: Versteppan because his pressure on Sergio Pirez, who's the second 562 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 9: driver there. So you know, there's a lot of opportunity 563 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 9: here for Liam, and of course with that comes pressure. 564 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 9: But you know he said multiple times and even again 565 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 9: this week that anytime you step into a Formula One 566 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 9: car you know it could be your last because it's 567 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 9: such a cut throat competition industry. The pressure is there regardless, 568 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 9: but definitely this time around different than it was last year. 569 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: Both of you have been covering sport for most of 570 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: your careers. Are you excited by the fact we're able 571 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: to talk about some different sports. It's not just rugby 572 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: or sailing anymore. We're actually seeing some excitement and some 573 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: movement in different fields. 574 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 575 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 9: I think that's the way society has kind of gone right. 576 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 9: It's allowed more sports to flourish at a junior level 577 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 9: and that's now coming through to a senior an elite level. 578 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 9: And you know, Elliott might have a slightly different viewpoint. 579 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 9: You know, he's obviously our voice of rugby and our 580 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 9: rugby commentator and is heavily involved with that. But us 581 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 9: in the sports team, you know, we're in the job 582 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 9: because we love sport, not just one sport. So for 583 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 9: us to be able to come in on any given 584 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 9: day and have one of fifteen twenty twenty five sports 585 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 9: to talk about as great and quite often some of 586 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 9: the best stores, some of the best interviews, some of 587 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 9: the best moments in terms of your job, come in 588 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,479 Speaker 9: these in these minor sports when you least expect it, 589 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 9: So you know, the personalities of people are perhaps a 590 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 9: little bit more out there those kinds of things. Yeah, 591 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 9: it's great. It's great to have such variety now. 592 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and it certainly wasn't the case. 593 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 3: You know, I think back fifteen twenty years ago, maybe 594 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 3: you got a couple of NBA games a week on ESPN. 595 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 3: Now you can pretty much watch them all over streaming 596 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 3: and then piece heaps on the ESPN, NFL, Major League Baseball, 597 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 3: Formula One. You know, used to be buried in the 598 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 3: middle of the knife. You didn't get up and watch it, 599 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 3: that was your chance. Now you can see highlights and 600 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 3: various things. So what it has done is level the 601 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 3: playing field. And that's the challenge for sports like rugby 602 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 3: that have had this stranglehold on New Zealand culture for 603 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 3: so long is to keep pace with these sports if 604 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 3: they want to still be the sport of choice for New. 605 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: Zealand going forward. 606 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 3: And I think that's it's a really interesting topic, but 607 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 3: it's leveled the playing field in terms of what sports people. 608 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: Are interested in. 609 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: Also in October, we witnessed the unbelievable on a different 610 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 2: kind of field. India suffered its first series defeat at 611 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: home since twenty twelve, at the hands of none other 612 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: than New Zealand. The defeat came when India was bowled 613 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 2: out for two hundred and forty five by the Black 614 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: Caps in their chase of three hundred and fifty nine 615 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 2: on the third day of the second Test. The Kiwis 616 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 2: went on to hand India a historic zero three series 617 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: whitewash at home. We spoke to the ends at Herald's 618 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 2: online Sports editor Alex Powell on what this could mean 619 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:43,479 Speaker 2: for cricket in New Zealand in terms of this series. 620 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 2: I mean, you watched it, what do you think the 621 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 2: black Caps did differently? 622 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 10: I mean, that's a really difficult question to answer because 623 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 10: the game plan that they had was basically the same 624 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 10: one they had in Sri Lanka where they got swept 625 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 10: turnerl I think the performance of India was re really 626 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 10: what's done in India have just imploded in this series. 627 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 10: They've not lost a home Test series since twenty twelve, 628 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 10: they'd won eighteen consecutive series in the time since then. 629 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 10: They've beaten every nation there apart from Pakistan. And yet 630 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 10: it's New Zealand that's pulled their pants down again. 631 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: So how historic is this defeat for them? 632 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 10: For India, it's their first Test series lost at home 633 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 10: to New Zealand and then conversely it's New Zealand's first 634 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,959 Speaker 10: away series win in India. I mean, you'd probably have 635 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 10: to ask India where it ranks. They don't look at 636 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 10: New Zealand in the greater picture and say these guys 637 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 10: are our big rivals. They think, you know, Australia and 638 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 10: England because that's where cricket is now that those three 639 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 10: countries dominate. Then they also probably love beating Pakistan more 640 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 10: than anyone as well. Whether or not this really rankles 641 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 10: in history is probably to be seen and for India to. 642 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: Answer, is it more historic than for New Zealand to 643 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: have done this to India? 644 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 7: No? 645 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 10: New Zealand are definitely the biggest story head like, we 646 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 10: will look back on this team in ten years and 647 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 10: go wow, I can't believe they did that. They had 648 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 10: no business winning one test in the series, never won 649 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 10: two with one still to play. 650 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 2: What has some of the international coverage being this? 651 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 10: So cricket now as a sport effectively just bends over 652 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 10: backwards to praise India. I think the status for every 653 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 10: dollar and international cricket ninety odd cents, so it comes 654 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 10: from India. The sport is completely fixated on making the 655 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 10: most of that audience. So in a lot of ways, 656 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 10: the Black Caps have really upset the Apple car by 657 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 10: doing this. 658 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 2: And it's not only the men's team making good on 659 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 2: that international stage, is it. 660 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 6: No? 661 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 10: Yeah, the woman won the T twenty World Cup. 662 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: What last week? 663 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 11: Now? 664 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 10: Sorry, time's a bit blurred now for me because there's 665 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 10: been so much other It's been so. 666 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: Much cricket to watch, So how historic was that win 667 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: for the women's. 668 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 10: Historic's probably not the right word, because they did win 669 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 10: the full fifty over World Cup in two thousand, but 670 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 10: that was in a whole generation of players ago, so 671 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 10: much so that this generation was saying how they watched 672 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 10: that one and got inspired from it. But I mean, 673 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 10: on the whole, it's just a great time to be 674 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 10: a keeper cricket fan, isn't it? 675 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 2: Could this bolster cricket's popularity in New Zealand. I feel 676 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 2: like we're constantly talking about rugby and its stars, the 677 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 2: All Blacks. Do you think the same can be said 678 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: about cricket and greats? 679 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 10: I think rugby is such a different thing to compare 680 00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 10: any of this too, because rugby isn't a sport in 681 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 10: this cure its entertainment. Whether or not we'll look at 682 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 10: the cricketers in the same light as with the rugby players, 683 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 10: I don't think so. We've already seen this generation of 684 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 10: men's cricketers are the best we'll probably ever have, and 685 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 10: they can all still walk down the street mostly without 686 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 10: being bombarded. But I mean the effect this is going 687 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 10: to have on kids. There's a phrase that you see 688 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 10: in sports, you can't be what you can't see, and 689 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 10: now we've had a generation of girls grow up and 690 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 10: see their team win the t twenty World. 691 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: Cup, World champion. 692 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 5: Susie baits Susie, good morning, Congratulations. 693 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 10: How are you really? 694 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 11: Jess so pumped. We've just sung the team song in 695 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 11: the changing room. Yeah, surreal. The tournament has been so 696 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 11: great for this group and to be world champions. You know, 697 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 11: we've had a couple of cracks, but not recently and 698 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 11: just so fas. 699 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's awesome. 700 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 10: We've had a generation of boys come through and see 701 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 10: their team just be amazing since what twenty fourteen, they've 702 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 10: won the World Test Championship in that time as well. 703 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 10: So I think the future really is bright. But now 704 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 10: it's up to Newland Cricket to have the right pathways 705 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 10: in place for this talent to come through. 706 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: While many would have guessed the introduction of a new 707 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 2: all blacks coach would have been the biggest shakeup in 708 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 2: ends at rugby this year, the biggest test was actually 709 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 2: happening behind the scenes. New Zealand Rugby has been at 710 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 2: loggerheads with the provincial unions about how to reform governance 711 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 2: for the country's most popular sport. In May, those unions 712 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 2: voted against proposed reforms by the enzet Are Board, before 713 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 2: an eventual deal was struck in September. Since then, the 714 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: applications for director roles closed in October, with hopes these 715 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 2: will be the last steps before a long awaited resolution 716 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 2: to a saga that began more than a year ago. 717 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 2: For context on this battle, in April ends It Heralds 718 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: sportswriter Gregor Pohl gave us the rundown about what has 719 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 2: led to these games going on in rugby's board rooms. Gregor, 720 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,479 Speaker 2: let's go back to August twenty twenty three when the 721 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: Pilkington report was delivered. What was the purpose of that 722 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 2: report and what did it find? 723 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 12: Well, you've got to go back a wee bit further 724 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 12: to get the purpose of the report, which was a 725 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 12: non negotiable demand from the Rugby Players Association when talks 726 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 12: was silver Lake, the private equity investor, broke down entirely 727 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 12: in twenty twenty one, and the players said, look, we're 728 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 12: only going to come back to the table and see 729 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 12: if we can sort this out on the condition the 730 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 12: New Zealand Rugby commission a review into their own governance 731 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 12: structure because the RPA was concerned that it wasn't fit 732 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 12: for purpose. Everyone agreed to this, it was non binding. 733 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 12: It was however, agreed that New Zealand Rugby would operate 734 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 12: in good faith and any of the findings that the 735 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 12: Pilkington Review put forward they would look to act upon 736 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 12: them wherever they could. So in August twenty twenty three, 737 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 12: when the report was finalized, it confirmed what everybody probably 738 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 12: already knew, which was that the governance structure and the 739 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 12: way that the New Zealand Rugby Board of nine Directors 740 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 12: is appointed is no longer fit for purpose. And the 741 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 12: review recommended a best practice way in terms of modernizing 742 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 12: the entire rugby landscape if you like, as it pertains 743 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 12: to governance, and they put forward a blueprint on what 744 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 12: that should look like. 745 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: So what did New Zealand Rugby propose as a way 746 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 2: of addressing these reforms. 747 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 12: Well, I think they wanted to ignore it for as 748 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 12: long as they possibly could. If I'm going to be 749 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 12: honest with you, they were never really fully supportive of 750 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 12: the idea in my opinion that they wanted to do 751 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 12: the review. They felt it was foisted upon them. So 752 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 12: when the review was published, New Zealand Rugby's response was 753 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 12: kind of vague. It suggested generically that they supported many 754 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 12: of the findings of the review. Because the review had 755 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 12: given a blueprint in terms of how to restructure and 756 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 12: what to do. Most people assumed that New Zealand Rugby 757 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 12: and the provincial unions would agree with that, would look 758 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 12: at that and go, yep, there we go. Does everyone 759 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 12: agree this is the right thing to do. The report's comprehensive, 760 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 12: it's done by credible experts. We all committed to the report. 761 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 12: We all contributed to the report, and we agreed that 762 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 12: these were the right people. This was the right way 763 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,879 Speaker 12: to do it. And now we've got exhaustive findings. So 764 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 12: shall we just Robert stampless and get on with it instead. 765 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 12: What has happened is we've had an eight month period 766 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 12: now where the New Zealand Rugby Union and the provinces 767 00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 12: separately have tried to reimagine the report and create their 768 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 12: own blueprints for a governance structure, and they've sort of 769 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 12: worked a little bit with the report. They've amended things 770 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 12: here and there. Both parties have had different ideas about 771 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 12: which parts of the report they would like, which part 772 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 12: they don't like. They've not been able to agree. I've 773 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 12: actually lost count of how many different versions they've both 774 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 12: put forward to one another. And here we are now, 775 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 12: instead of what should have been a fairly simple process, 776 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 12: we still have the Rugby Union putting forward its ideas 777 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 12: and what it wants, and we've got the unions with 778 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 12: their own proposal which they have now lodged to hold 779 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 12: a special general meeting and they want to hold a 780 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 12: vote in six weeks time to prove their own version 781 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 12: of the report. I suppose it is the easiest way 782 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 12: to put it. 783 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 2: So we've got ended Rugby on one hand and then 784 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 2: the provincial unions on the other. What's the view of 785 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 2: the unions? 786 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 12: So they are I mean, they're not too dissimilar to 787 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 12: the actual Pilkington Review. Their sticking point for them is 788 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 12: that they're concerned that if they adopted the review in 789 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,479 Speaker 12: its entirely that they might end up with a nine 790 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 12: person independent board, which they support. They support the idea 791 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 12: of full independence, but they're asking at this stage for 792 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 12: at least three of the directors who are appointed to 793 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 12: have held at least two years experience working on the 794 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 12: board of a provincial rugby union. So they're worried that 795 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 12: you might end up with a board of kind of 796 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 12: career directors, if you like, people who have financial skills 797 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 12: or legal skills or whatever it might be, but not 798 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 12: necessarily embedded experience in grassroots rugby. Now there's accounter argument 799 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 12: that says, well, the whole proposal here takes care of that. 800 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 12: The review actually creates some matrix of skills that that 801 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 12: will need to be included anyway. But the unions are 802 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 12: wanting sort of belt and braces on that, and they 803 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 12: are also proposing that at least one of these directors 804 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 12: identifies as specificus. 805 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 2: There seems to be a lot of back and forth, 806 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 2: a lot of hullablue over specifics regarding how this will 807 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 2: look like. Does that translate to how big the issue 808 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 2: was to begin with or has this snowballed into something 809 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 2: that people are getting wound up over. 810 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 12: Yeah. Look, the Pilkington Review said that the current process 811 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 12: is not fit for purpose, and you could argue now 812 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 12: that the fact that it's taken eight months to actually 813 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,759 Speaker 12: get not particularly closer to any kind of agreement is 814 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 12: indeed evidence that it's not fit for purpose. We are 815 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 12: going round and round here. There's an element of self protectionism. 816 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 12: Certainly from the New Zealand Rugby Board. There's one or 817 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 12: two who are reluctant to resign their positions as part 818 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 12: of this process, so that's holding things up a little bit. 819 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 12: From the provincial union perspective, they've become hung up that 820 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 12: fee directors must have two years experience. That is a 821 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 12: blockage to an agreement being made on all fronts. But 822 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,720 Speaker 12: in the end you could make a fairly strong argument 823 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 12: to say that while the unions are supportive of change 824 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,520 Speaker 12: and nine independent directors coming in, they still want to 825 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 12: make sure that there's provincial union control in all the 826 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 12: various councils and bodies that are going to be appointing directors. 827 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 12: And then again with the demand that three directors have 828 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 12: come through Provincial Rugby, it's not actually the volume of 829 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 12: change that we would all imagine you would get if 830 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 12: you just adopted the Pilkington review. 831 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 2: That's it for this compilation episode of the Front Page. 832 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 2: You can read more about the stories featured in this 833 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 2: episode and extensive news coverage at ensiherld dot co dot 834 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 2: z The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and 835 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 2: Richard Martin, who is also our sound engineer, along with 836 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 2: Paddy Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page 837 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 838 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 2: in tomorrow for another compilation episode, taking a look back 839 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 2: at some of the year's biggest stories,