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Speaker 1: So Simon Watts, who's the new Energy Minister as a

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Speaker 1: result of the summery shuffle. Of course, he was given

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Speaker 1: a briefing on his new portfolio. This is standard practice.

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Speaker 1: That particular document has been released in the last twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours. In a way, it tells us nothing we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have known. We don't have enough power, renewables don't cover

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Speaker 1: the gap in the present point in time and what

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Speaker 1: needs to take a long term view of all of this. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: the energy resources are here to see. John Carnegie's with

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Speaker 1: us John morning. He's been fairly bullish on his talk

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Speaker 1: towards Gen Taylor's and the plan selling and spot prices

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Speaker 1: and stuff. You're happy with what's being said at least.

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Speaker 2: No, Look, I think if everyone wants and deserves an

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Speaker 2: electricity market that's as competitive as possible, So it's useful

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Speaker 2: to shine the light every now and again and make

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Speaker 2: sure that that's exactly what's going on.

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Speaker 1: We're in a better place, or so the industry keeps

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Speaker 1: saying this year than we were last. Is that luck

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Speaker 1: and rain or something more than that?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, no, Look, New Zealand certainly just doesn't have

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Speaker 2: the nextural gas needed to run our elect of e system.

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Speaker 2: And actually I think you said it in the intro.

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Speaker 2: We just don't have the affordable alternates to fill a

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Speaker 2: massive energy gap that we now face, and so we're

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Speaker 2: starting to see elevated spot market electricity in spot market

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Speaker 2: prices as a result. And the upshot of us is

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Speaker 2: that relying on the weather isn't a great way to

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Speaker 2: run an economy, let alone an energy system, and we

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Speaker 2: can't keep on reaching from winter to winter without taking

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Speaker 2: some systemic action.

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Speaker 1: Well, the systemic action comes from the power companies who

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Speaker 1: are had on the program, who say be patient, in time,

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Speaker 1: renewables will fill the gap. Are they wrong?

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, they're certainly going to help. I mean, we've

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Speaker 2: kind of got an amazing problem to have. But what

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Speaker 2: we do have is an over reliance on weather dependent

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Speaker 2: sources of power generation that need to be backed by

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Speaker 2: coal or natural gas. And I think it's abundantly clear

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Speaker 2: for all to see that without new gas fields or

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Speaker 2: new permitted areas for expiration gas, and no longer fully

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Speaker 2: the hydro lake levels as they should, and that threatens

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Speaker 2: our economic resilience and energy security.

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Speaker 1: That's what I can't understand. So even if we all

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Speaker 1: agree that renewables may one day be fantastic, and that's

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Speaker 1: fine and dandy right here, right now. It's surely it's

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Speaker 1: irrefutable we don't have enough gas, and it's irrefutable that. No,

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Speaker 1: we may not like coal, but it's the answer. Do

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Speaker 1: people argue against that?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no of course, because we get some who

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Speaker 2: say that we can have one hundred percent renewable electricity system.

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Speaker 1: But sorry, but we don't. That's the point. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we don't.

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Speaker 2: It's just not feasible. It's not feasible. Even the Climate

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Speaker 2: Change Commission argued against a one hundred percent renewable electricity

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Speaker 2: system because it is unreliable and it is too expensive.

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Speaker 2: And basically, when the sun doesn't shine, it doesn't rain,

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Speaker 2: and the wind doesn't. We need a system that is

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Speaker 2: resilient enough to fill the gaps, and that can only

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Speaker 2: come from natural gas. And unfortunately, now, yes, Cole.

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Speaker 1: Right are, your voice is being heard at the highest

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Speaker 1: level so that something more sensible can be done as

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Speaker 1: opposed to having power outages.

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Speaker 2: Look, you know, Minister Jones, Yes, we're working collaboratively with

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Speaker 2: Minister Jones and other ministers. You know, they're hard at

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Speaker 2: work on you know because of course, as I've said

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Speaker 2: a number of times on you show the problem with

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Speaker 2: the New Zealand energy system that because of the oil

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Speaker 2: and gas span of twenty eighteen, the sector now faces

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Speaker 2: massive sovereign risk, which means that investors are wary of investing,

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Speaker 2: and so Minister Jones and his colleagues are looking at

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Speaker 2: that and what's needed including actually I see just maybe

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Speaker 2: last week there was discussion about the Crown taking equity stakes,

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Speaker 2: so investing in new permit areas to actually take back

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Speaker 2: some of the risk inappropriately pushed onto the seeker, and

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Speaker 2: we welcome, we welcome those seditions.

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Speaker 1: Good having the program as always, John Carnegie. For more

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Speaker 1: from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks

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Speaker 1: it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.