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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks'd be follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Riley Elliott. He is a marine biologist and presenter

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Speaker 2: on Discovery Channel Shark Week No One Has Shark Man.

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Speaker 2: He's spent a career studying sharks and has long been

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Speaker 2: an advocate for the misunderstood apex predator of the sea,

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Speaker 2: and he joins us on the line. Now, Riley, how

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Speaker 2: are you good? Afternoon?

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Speaker 3: Good afternoon, guys, how are we going?

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Speaker 4: Very good? Thanks for talking to us? Now, Riley, should

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Speaker 4: sharks be more scared of humans or humans scared of sharks?

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Speaker 5: I think if you went with simple maths and look

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Speaker 5: at the statistics of who kills who the most, you know,

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Speaker 5: humans kill one hundred million sharks a year and sharks,

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Speaker 5: you know, tragically kill about six to ten people a year.

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Speaker 5: So I think the sharks should definitely be more afraid

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Speaker 5: of us. And in the commercial fishing fleets that do

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Speaker 5: most of that damage.

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Speaker 4: Do you why do you think we spend so much

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Speaker 4: time fearful of sharks? Is it just because of that

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Speaker 4: movie that came out in the seventies, Jaws? Because with

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Speaker 4: the limited amount of attacks and the limited amount of deaths,

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Speaker 4: even though there's some terrible tragic ones that absolutely happened,

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Speaker 4: and of course there was that one in New Zealand

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Speaker 4: and two and why he But do you think it

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Speaker 4: has been sense likely? It seems like sensationalism. Sensationalized is

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Speaker 4: that a word sensualized? It's not sensualized.

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Speaker 5: It's look that the movie Jaws obviously had a huge

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Speaker 5: part of playing it. But I think it's just the

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Speaker 5: boogieman factor. And I did a corporate speaking event the

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Speaker 5: other day about this't it? And it's very mirroring the

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Speaker 5: Boogieyman factor to the Jaws factor, because we all know

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Speaker 5: what the Boogeyman is, but you don't probably actually know

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Speaker 5: what it is at all.

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Speaker 3: I had to google it.

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Speaker 5: It was like a sixth sixteenth century monster they created

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Speaker 5: to make kids sleep, and they said that they didn't sleep,

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Speaker 5: it would crawl out of the under the bed and

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Speaker 5: grab them.

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Speaker 3: And it's just like a terrifying thing.

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Speaker 5: And it's the fact that it's under somewhere where you

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Speaker 5: can't see that it is terrifying. And I think that's

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Speaker 5: the same thing with a shark, Like if we go

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Speaker 5: walk into the savannahs well number one, you're expecting to

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Speaker 5: see a line.

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Speaker 3: Number two.

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Speaker 5: If it nails you, you probably be like, well, I

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Speaker 5: asked for it. Whereas we go float on the ocean

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Speaker 5: and we see it as like a recreation area, even

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Speaker 5: though it's the absolute wild and there is this animal

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Speaker 5: that looks beneath you, you don't see it. So I

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Speaker 5: think I think there's an element of just that boogieyman factor.

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Speaker 5: But also, to be honest, it's probably one of the

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Speaker 5: worst ways you could go is being you know, taken

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Speaker 5: by a monster.

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Speaker 3: You know, so.

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Speaker 5: It's obviously not statistically justified the amount we fear them,

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Speaker 5: because like everything you see around you kills more people

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Speaker 5: than sharks, like pencils or bees or whatever. But like

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Speaker 5: you know, at the end of the day, we're terrified

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Speaker 5: of them.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's changed.

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Speaker 5: A lot through people getting exposed information sharks themselves and

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Speaker 5: learning more about them.

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Speaker 4: I was really skewed of sharks, and you know, even

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Speaker 4: to the point where it's sometimes think about them. When

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Speaker 4: I was swimming in a pool in Central Auckland, but

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Speaker 4: I went swimming with some sharks and a weird thing happens.

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Speaker 4: And tell me if this has happened to you. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you've got you You've had so much experience with sharks,

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Speaker 4: but there comes a point where they stop being monsters

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Speaker 4: and they sort of just become big fish when you're

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Speaker 4: looking at them, oh one hundred percent.

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Speaker 5: I mean on my license plate it's like shark ram,

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Speaker 5: but below it feared to fascination. It literally happens like that,

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Speaker 5: I click of the finger and I used to do

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Speaker 5: a lot of shark eer tourism.

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Speaker 3: It's how I transition, so to speak.

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Speaker 5: And as soon as you get eyes on them and

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Speaker 5: you're in their domain with a mask on, you know

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Speaker 5: in good clarity water that the fear isn't there, and

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Speaker 5: you realize they don't actually care about.

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Speaker 3: You at all. Yeah, they're being on with their day

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Speaker 3: and you actually just start enjoying it.

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Speaker 5: And like you say, they just become these big, beautiful

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Speaker 5: fish and you want more.

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Speaker 3: And I mean that's really what drove me on my trajectory.

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Speaker 5: There's there's a much different feeling though, when you're floating

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Speaker 5: on a surfboard and bad visibility at dusk.

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Speaker 3: You're dawn, which is what we all do as surfers,

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Speaker 3: and to.

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Speaker 5: Be you know, brutally honest, I'm definitely afraid of sharks

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Speaker 5: when I surf, like you should be because you're not

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Speaker 5: playing by the rules. It's like, like I said before,

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Speaker 5: it's like playing tennis and the savannahs, but you're blindfolded.

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Speaker 3: Now. Yeah, well it's just but it's the risks you're

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Speaker 3: willing to take to do what you do.

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Speaker 5: You know, mountaineers, skiers, they take on avalanches. It's terrifying

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Speaker 5: to me, but you know, they do their research, they

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Speaker 5: figure out what the season is, where to go, They've

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Speaker 5: got mitigating, mitigating measures, and and we do do that

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Speaker 5: as surfers too. So at the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: I think if you go play in a wild animal's environment,

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Speaker 5: you know, you generally got to take on some risk

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Speaker 5: with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, how smart aren't sharks? Are they a steep above

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Speaker 2: regular fish and maybe a steep below auca and dolphin?

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Speaker 5: Ah, Like, I'm almost insulted with how I have to

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Speaker 5: add to that because it's it's let me put it

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Speaker 5: this way, they're the longest existing animal on earth, so

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Speaker 5: they've been around before trees, before any other animal, so

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Speaker 5: they have four hundred million years of instinct built into them.

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Speaker 3: They're born you know, most of them.

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Speaker 5: Like a great white's born at one point five meters

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Speaker 5: dumped by its mum, she leaves no print or guidance.

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Speaker 5: Yet that thing can navigate around an entire ocean, get

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Speaker 5: to some places at the right season for food, migrate

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Speaker 5: to another for another point, find its mates to mate

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Speaker 5: in the season.

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Speaker 3: You know that no one teaches them that, and they

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Speaker 3: somehow can do it magically.

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Speaker 5: And you know, they do have senses I think that

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Speaker 5: are more mechanistic, you know, like like more like a

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Speaker 5: you know, robotic in.

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Speaker 3: The sense that they're that refined.

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Speaker 5: They don't almost waste time on emotion. They're just they're

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Speaker 5: just getting on with their job. And so I think

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Speaker 5: there's a big difference between like an orca dolphin mentality

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Speaker 5: and a shark. And I think, to be honest, that's

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Speaker 5: why I feel far more comfortable swimming with a shark

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Speaker 5: than an orca, because an orca might just wake up

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Speaker 5: and be pissed off that day and have an emotional

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Speaker 5: flare out of it, you know, versus a shark, which

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Speaker 5: can be quite predictable if you understand what you're looking.

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Speaker 4: For, right, Yeah, that that kind of that kind of

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Speaker 4: makes sense. The predictability is same thing with the people

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Speaker 4: that deal with you know, crocs and such. So can

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Speaker 4: you fight off a shark?

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Speaker 5: Well, funny you say that because a kite surfer in

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Speaker 5: Margaret River in Western Australia just got smoked by a

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Speaker 5: great white when he was kite surfing and he landed

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Speaker 5: on it after it ejected him out of the air,

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Speaker 5: and he started bashing it with his hands. And you

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Speaker 5: can imagine the shark it thought that this was like

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Speaker 5: a fish skimming on the surface and whack number one,

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Speaker 5: I get home into five glass in his mouth number two.

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Speaker 3: So that's getting feed into all hell on its head.

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Speaker 3: Until's oubt of that.

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Speaker 5: Because sharks aren't stupid, they don't take on foreign situations.

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Speaker 5: They've evolved to hunt very specific prey and so if

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Speaker 5: all of a sudden the shark realizes, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 3: That's not what I thought it was.

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Speaker 5: You know, ninety eight percent of great white attacks on people,

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Speaker 5: the shark never comes back, unfortunately. No, it's about getting

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Speaker 5: you know, medical assistance asat because they've got very sharp

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Speaker 5: teeth and we usually bleed unfortunately. But you know, sharks

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Speaker 5: don't eat people, they don't hunt people. They make mistakes sometimes,

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Speaker 5: but you know people are, oh whatever, you surely they

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Speaker 5: eat people.

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Speaker 3: But it's like we can all accept the shark is

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Speaker 3: very good at what it does. It's a very capable predator,

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Speaker 3: and we suck in the ocean.

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Speaker 5: Compared to everything else from that, so if they wanted

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Speaker 5: to hunt us, they'd be eating us every single day

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Speaker 5: because we're pretty easy to.

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Speaker 4: Gat Yeah, speaking of catching, how how do you actually

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Speaker 4: go about tagging a great white shark? What's the process

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Speaker 4: of that?

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Speaker 5: So we just tagged fifteen down at Stuart Island this

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Speaker 5: last summer, and what we use is basically a spear

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Speaker 5: gun that's customized, you know, to.

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Speaker 3: The right power.

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Speaker 5: It's got like a tip on the end of it

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Speaker 5: that inserts a dart, so it's kind of piercing the

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Speaker 5: ear of the shark, but it's at the base of

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Speaker 5: the dorsal fin. And then a little string holds onto

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Speaker 5: a tag that floats, and when the shark comes up

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Speaker 5: to the surface, the tag connects with a satellite into

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Speaker 5: my computer and tells us where.

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Speaker 3: The sharks are. So you basically lure the shark.

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Speaker 5: We got to where the sharks naturally aggregate, and then

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Speaker 5: you lure the sharks along the side of the boat

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Speaker 5: and you take a very specific spear gunshot to launch

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Speaker 5: the data and under the skin and the shark kind

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Speaker 5: of goes what was that like? When you get a

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Speaker 5: year pierced and it starts circling around doing its normal thing,

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Speaker 5: and we're able to track them anywhere in the world,

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Speaker 5: and you know you can you can download literally the

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Speaker 5: Great White app and you can see where the fifteen

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Speaker 5: sharks are right.

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Speaker 3: Now and what it calls.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very cool.

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Speaker 3: So people can sponsor tags.

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Speaker 5: You know, you sponsor a tag, you name your shark,

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Speaker 5: you can see anywhere.

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Speaker 4: How do you do that?

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Speaker 5: You can go to the Sustainable Ocean Society website and

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of information on there.

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Speaker 3: Just look up my profiles.

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Speaker 5: On my social media's and there's a lot of information

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Speaker 5: I've been posting recently about offering sponsorship. People can, like

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Speaker 5: I say, sponsor a tag. It's about four thousand dollars.

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Speaker 5: They're very expensive, but the scientific equipment and you name

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Speaker 5: your shark and then you and the public and see

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Speaker 5: where these sharks go for you know, a year or more.

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Speaker 4: That's cool because you'd be like, hey, do you want

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Speaker 4: to see my shark? Here, this is where it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: It is fascinating.

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Speaker 5: They go, you know, as far as a couple are

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Speaker 5: up in Tonga, a couple are off Sydney right now.

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Speaker 3: Up in the Great Berier, reached New Caledonia.

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Speaker 5: One was down by Nelson, one was down at Stuart Island,

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Speaker 5: so that they get around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got a favorite. I'm just looking at We've

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Speaker 2: got Happy and Bubbles, who was kind of circling around Australia.

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Speaker 2: Shingo was up near Tonga, which is really nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean I found that one fascinating because it's

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Speaker 5: right in the Vivoo Island group, and some of my

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Speaker 5: friends who do while watching up there actually saw it,

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Speaker 5: which is pretty incredible because not many people realize that

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Speaker 5: these sharks go up to the tropics in our winter.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, they're not stupid.

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Speaker 5: They got there for thermo benefits and to follow the

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Speaker 5: well migrations.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, Shingo is really cool. But I've always liked Bubbles.

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Speaker 5: Because I just love it when people name them not

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Speaker 5: jaws or not something terrifying, and it's like it takes

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Speaker 5: off that first, you know, layer of fear, and then

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Speaker 5: people go oh okay, I'll hear what bubbles does.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, breaks down a lot of that fear. Riley.

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Speaker 2: It's been really great to chat with you. Thank you

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Speaker 2: very much for coming on and giving us your expertise,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully we'll catch up again soon.

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Speaker 3: No, I appreciate it.

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Speaker 5: If you want a sponsor a shark, look up my

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Speaker 5: social media as I go. That's a stain the Ocean

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Speaker 5: Society website. So thank you very much for having me. Guys,

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Speaker 5: have a great afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you too, and that's great. We'll put that information

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Speaker 2: up on our website as well. That is doctor Riley

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Speaker 2: Elliott no One as shark Man.

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Speaker 1: For more from News Talk st B, listen live on

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Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

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