1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: One of the great cultural and educational frauds is at 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: last being undone by the government. So the Education Minister 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: is written to all school boards explaining her rationale for 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: removing the requirement for school boards to give effect to tetility. 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: O WAITANGI. So the twenty twenty change, it was implemented 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: in a labor of course, made no measurable difference. What 7 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: a surprise to MARI achievement and distracted boards from their 8 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: court duties. Anyway, Erica Stamford's with us a very good 9 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: morning to. 10 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: You, Good morning mate. 11 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: Was this virtual signaling signaling nonsense? 12 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: Well, it certainly didn't make any difference. I mean, if 13 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: you are laser focused on raising achievement and raising achievement 14 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 2: for Mary students, you undertake the reforms that we're undertaking, 15 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: which have already for the first time in two decade, 16 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: seen a measurable improvement in mariy early Mary reading data. 17 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: Those are the things that you do. But just putting 18 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: some words that are relatively difficult to interpret it onto 19 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: a school board isn't going to make any difference. And 20 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: we've seen that, right. 21 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: Can you interpret them? What is it that they were 22 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: expected to do? Specifically, in recognizing tetidity. Oh White, honey, Well, 23 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: that's a good question. 24 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: I'm not entirely certain. There were some things that the 25 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: board were told they had to do, and we've clarified those. 26 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: You must work to raise MARI achievement and ensure equable outcomes. 27 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: You must teach today omari in your school for those 28 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: who ask for it. And you must be culturally competent 29 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: to the needs of your students in the school. Those 30 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: things are very important, but they are very clear, and 31 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: they tell a board exactly what to do. But just 32 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: a vague statement that is conferring a treaty duty from 33 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: the crown where it rightfully sits to a board of 34 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: trustees of volunteer, well meaning parents is not reasonable. 35 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong. So what then happened, And 36 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: having been through this myself with kids and your parent 37 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: as well, what then happened is everyone panicked and didn't 38 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: want to be caught out or had a finger pointed 39 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: at them, so they just just spread liberally all over 40 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: there fronment something they thought would be right to no 41 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: great end. Is that fair? 42 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: Well, what they didn't do, Mike, was teach structured literacy. 43 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: Do an hour a day of reading, writing, and maths, 44 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: make sure that we're assessing early literacy to see if 45 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: children are improving and if they're not intervene early having 46 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 2: a clear curriculum. I mean, those are all of the 47 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: things that raise achievement. And now for the first time, 48 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: we're seeing that achievement is rising, and that's what we need. 49 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: School boards to be focused on raising achievement, getting kids 50 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: to school, keeping them safe. 51 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: Right are you do you think going to get a 52 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: welcome sigh of relief from boards or are you expecting pushback? 53 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: I think what will happen is the usual suspects in 54 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: the unions will have a go. But actually I'm just 55 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 2: out here fighting for kids and what is the best 56 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: for them, and I'm interested in outcomes and not what 57 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: the unions have to say. 58 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so material, does it change or not? 59 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: I think that will be a stronger focus on boards 60 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: on raising achievement, getting our kids to school. That's what 61 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: these changes do. There is still a requirement. We still 62 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: want schools to make sure that they are being culturally 63 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: relevant and that they are offering today a Mary for 64 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: those children who want it, and that they are raising 65 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: Mary achievement. But we're being very clear about those things. 66 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: Those schools would do that because a good school does 67 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: what the community wants. I mean, you don't have to 68 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: spell it out, do you. 69 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: Well, some boards will. I think we do need to 70 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: be clear about some of those things because the look, 71 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: my belief is still that the Crown has an obligation 72 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: to the Treaty of White Angy to make sure that 73 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: we are providing good education and that there are good outcomes, 74 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 2: and also that we're protecting today Amari as well. So 75 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: it is important that we do have those outlined in 76 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: what a board has to do. But we're very clear 77 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: and precise about those things rather than a vague statement 78 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: that is difficult to interpret. 79 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: On related matters, you're in Sydney last week, so you 80 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: may have missed it. I don't know anyway, this moaning 81 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: about the curriculum, they were the people. They seem to 82 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: be going, Look what they're expecting a five year old 83 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: to understand. Five year olds don't understand that. So have 84 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: you missed the mark or have they teachers unions just 85 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: dumbed kids down to a point where we have no 86 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: great expectation anymore. 87 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: I think it's definitely the latter, But also, I mean 88 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: you teach to the age of the child. Right. There 89 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: are for example, in the science curriculum you learn about 90 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 2: and I've forgotten his name. His name's Carl. He was 91 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: the one who worked out how bees danced to communicate. 92 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: You know, you're not expecting five year olds to remember 93 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: his name. Gosh, I can't even remember it. But I mean, 94 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: how interesting is it that bees dance and that's how 95 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: they communicate to each other. I mean it's fascinating. And 96 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: you've got the left in the in the Union saying, oh, 97 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: don't teach kids facts because it stifles creativity. You can't 98 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: be creative, and you can't think critically, and you you know, 99 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 2: you can't problem solve if you don't have a base 100 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: of knowledge and facts and know how to use those 101 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: facts and when to use them. Otherwise you're just an 102 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: empty vessel. I've seen so many people say, oh, kids 103 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 2: don't need facts, they can just use AI are ridiculous, 104 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 2: You can't comprehend. Yes, that's right, cold on fresh. Also 105 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 2: their Frastus, I think he's also in there about he's 106 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: the father of botany. He decided what is a tree, 107 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: what is a bush? What is a shrub? I mean, 108 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: you can get five year olds to have a whole 109 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: bunch of pictures in front of them and like, you know, 110 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: sort these into which ones are trees, which ones are herbs, 111 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: and say, hey, there was a guy who thought of this, 112 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: and it was a long time ago, and his name 113 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 2: was the Ephrastus, and he decided that these things would 114 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: be grouped. I mean, you can teach five year olds 115 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, you know, because it's interesting and fascinating, 116 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: and we're just limiting them if we think we can 117 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: just get them to sit there and randomly think creatively 118 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 2: without having some basis of knowledge to think creatively and 119 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: critically about. 120 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: Very well, SAE appreciate your time as always, eric A, 121 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: Stamford Education Ministers. For more from the My Asking Breakfast, 122 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, 123 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.