1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: And with us right now and welcome Thomas is Thomas Coglan, 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: the Herald's political leves of hime mate afternoon, Heather. All right, 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: so how has Parliament reacted to the old work safe changes? 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean it's it's a bit of a 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: max bag. I have to say, like a lot of 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 2: the changes do seem quite sensible. We have a reasonably 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: high workplace fatality rate in New Zealand two point three 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: deaths per one hundred thousand, So it's lower than the 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,159 Speaker 2: likes of the United States, Portugal and Austria which are 10 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 2: quite high, but it is higher than nausea which only 11 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: has about one point four deaths per hundred thousand. So 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: we do have a need for this enforcement. But you know, 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: as a lot of people have noticed the last few years, 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: some of the ways that that workplace health and safety 15 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: reform has actually been implemented has just been it seems 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 2: to be a slightly detachment reality that the thing that 17 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 2: most people have picked up on are the road cones, 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: which is as a sort of visual manifestation of workplace 19 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: health and safety, which which can be a bit of 20 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: a box sticking exercise and not actually in reality, right 21 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: and yeah, and we need to we need to reduce 22 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: those workplace deaths down to it. 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: But it isn't I mean, doesn't it wonderfully illustrate the 24 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: point that I think Brook van Velden is trying to make. 25 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: When you look at the road cones, you can see 26 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: these guys are being overly cautious because that's so potentially 27 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: so worried about being prosecuted by work Safe that they're 28 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: just ticking all the boxes there, right, And that's that 29 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: is the problem with work Safe is people are terrified 30 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: of them coming after them. 31 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and that's the that's the sort of thrust 32 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 2: of what of what Brook van Velden is rolling out. 33 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: I think one of the one of the areas where 34 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 2: there has been a bit of controversy is to shift 35 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: away from shift away from enforcement to education endytia DIA. 36 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: That a few years ago and it didn't on on 37 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: on waft wafts and stuff, and that didn't that didn't 38 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: go too well. I think they reversed that change in 39 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. So you'd hope some sort of middle ground 40 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: can be struck because there are still quite a few 41 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: workplace deaths in New Zealand. But it doesn't seem like, 42 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: you know, plastering the country and road cones is the 43 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: thing that's going to solve. You know. Again, we've got 44 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: these high rates of workplace deaths and we've had work 45 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: Safe for more than ten years now or about ten 46 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: years now, so it's not the creation of work Safe 47 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: hasn't actually done exactly what what what people wanted to do? 48 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: Hey, is everybody calming down after Winston and David had 49 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: to swap seats. 50 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 3: Felt really disruptive? 51 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I have to say I Shane, Shane Jones 52 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: is the one who who I keep my eye on 53 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 2: and question time today, Shane Jones loves a bit of 54 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: an interjection. He's view, you good at winding, winding everyone 55 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: else in the house up and he's he's yelling, yelling 56 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: things like like coal from the back of a chamber. 57 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: But it does seem like it does seem like things 58 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 2: have come calm down. Awey, But from the look on 59 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: Winston Peter's face, And don't think he likes sitting sitting 60 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: right up the back. He's right next to to partying 61 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 2: molding now, which is probably the last. 62 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 3: Right up the back is he's at the front of 63 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 3: the front. 64 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: Of he's the front of the back. So if you 65 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: remember the horseshoe of Parliament, ye you're he's right at 66 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: the middle of the horseshoe, and then straight on the 67 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: other on the other side of that horse shoe is 68 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 2: to party. So this is this is not where when 69 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: St Peters wants to wants to be spending his days. 70 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 2: He used to be right next to the Prime Minister. 71 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: They could have a weed chat during question time. No 72 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,119 Speaker 2: longer have you had for him? 73 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: How much of just this book have you read? 74 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: I haven't got my hands on that yet that she 75 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: didn't she didn't send an embargoed copy my way I read. 76 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 3: And why not? Are you on the blacklist like us? 77 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: Well? I noticed that she she didn't have kind words 78 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: for Barry in the in the in the book, which 79 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: I thought was. 80 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: Did you read it though? 81 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: Did you read it? Yes? I was? It was. I 82 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: think the sin that was that Barry seemed to ask 83 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: ask her whether she cried around the time of the 84 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: march her text, which I thought was a totally reasonable question. 85 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: And it turns out that she did. 86 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: She did good, good question. 87 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: So she's crossed with him for asking it because it 88 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: was true. 89 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: Yes, cross cross for a journalist cross as a journalist 90 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 2: for asking questions is not shocking, not shocking. 91 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: Yes, it's not even the worst thing he did to her. Actually, Thomas, 92 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: thank you very much. A really she had as nice 93 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: to chat to you. Thomas Coglan, the Herald's political editor. 94 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: I reckon, look, shall I tell you the worst thing 95 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: he did to her? Yeah, well, I don't know if 96 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: he's gonna be okay with us. So but when she 97 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: was still I don't know if she was the opposition 98 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: leader or not yet. 99 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 3: No, she must have been. No, she must have been 100 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: the prime minister already. 101 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: Of course she was the prime minister, and you know, 102 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: like getting on with the pregnancy, and clearly Barry did 103 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: not have much time for her, which we all know 104 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: and like many of us. And so Annett tried because 105 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: Annett and Barry are friends, an Gannet King and Barry 106 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: are friends. And Annett thought, I need my friend Barry 107 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: to be friends with my friend Cinda. So she had 108 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: a dinner at her house and her tight tie, and 109 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: she said Barry come along. And Barry went along, and 110 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: he sat there with Ciinda and they made small talk 111 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: and they got on famously. It was lovely and then 112 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: at the end they and it said can I take 113 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: a photo for posterity? And he put his hand on 114 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: her belly. 115 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 3: That is the worst. I can't believe that wasn't in 116 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 3: the boot. That's weird. I For more from Hither Duplessy 117 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 3: Allen Drive, listen live to news talks it'd be from 118 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 3: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.