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Speaker 1: Phase two of the COVID inquiry is kicking in today.

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Speaker 1: A submission portal, an awareness campaign is being launched today

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Speaker 1: where the public can submit feedback around key decisions the

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Speaker 1: New Zealand government made during the pandemic. And you know

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Speaker 1: these decisions vaccine mandates, lockdowns, extended lockdowns, rat tests and tracing.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've got an opinion. You can go to

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Speaker 1: the portal. Matthew Haigue is a lawyer who defended a

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Speaker 1: client who didn't want the COVID JAB and he joins me, now, hello, Matthew.

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Speaker 2: Good morning. Andrew.

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Speaker 1: Just remind us, well, why are we having a second

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Speaker 1: phase of this COVID inquiry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the first phase was heavily criticized, and I

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Speaker 2: think rightly so for two reasons. One is who the

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Speaker 2: commissioners were. Some were people who had openly publicly advocated

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Speaker 2: for stronger lockdown measures, and so people perceived there to

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Speaker 2: be a degree of bias in what their decision would be.

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Speaker 2: And secondly, the terms of reference for the first phase

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Speaker 2: were so narrow, they were all future focused and they

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Speaker 2: didn't really cover the decisions of the government.

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Speaker 1: So how is this phase different?

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Speaker 2: And commissioner is different terms of reference. So this phase

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Speaker 2: specifically addresses the government decisions, especially the lockdowns in late

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and vaccine mandates.

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Speaker 1: Yes, in phase two has been there by the chair

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Speaker 1: Grant Illingworth KC and not Professor Turning Blakely. That you've

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Speaker 1: referred to this. You know this will minimize the criticism

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Speaker 1: around bias, won't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so, and I think people should be

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Speaker 2: optimistic that this phase of the inquiry will address and

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Speaker 2: scrutinize the decisions that affected so many people in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And why do you think they actually went for

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Speaker 1: Blakely in the first place, You know, because he was

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Speaker 1: recommending stuff. I know he had medical advice, medical knowledge,

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Speaker 1: and he could aid in that way. But surely for

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Speaker 1: these commissions you need someone who is just straight down

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Speaker 1: the law, a casey, a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: I think people just want objective scrutiny. And in the

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Speaker 2: first case, Professor Blakeley did openly advocate for stronger lockdown measures.

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Speaker 2: People didn't trust that they wanted someone who was objective.

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Speaker 2: I think there's still going to be an area of

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Speaker 2: mistrust because the end of the day, this is still

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Speaker 2: a function of the government. Even though they are independent,

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Speaker 2: But I think people should be optimistic that this phase

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Speaker 2: will be better. And I really encourage anyone who has

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Speaker 2: a say, whether it's pro or anti measures taken by government,

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Speaker 2: to have their say.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what do you think people will be mostly

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Speaker 1: submitting about, Because they're the big ones, aren't they the

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Speaker 1: man makes the lockdowns and the rat tests and the tracing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there'll be people who have either been

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Speaker 2: affected by those things or have family or friends who

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Speaker 2: have been as well. We're lucky to represent a few

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Speaker 2: dozen people who were and there were hundreds of people

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Speaker 2: that lost their jobs, including thems of the police, Defense, Force,

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Speaker 2: fire and emergency. There are still people who are going

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Speaker 2: through the court system. Now we're wasting on a Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court decision about the anti dear flockdown, which is only

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Speaker 2: recently presented.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and are you making any submissions? Are you part

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Speaker 1: of anybody making submissions to this phase two of the inquiry?

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Speaker 2: I'd like to I'm thinking just carefully about how I

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Speaker 2: can best do that, because the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: we work for our clients, and so I just want

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Speaker 2: to think carefully about how I can best do that.

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Speaker 2: Probably in consultation with them.

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Speaker 1: So what do you hope to get out of that phase?

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Speaker 1: If you're being involved watching, you know what would you

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Speaker 1: like to see get out of it?

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Speaker 2: Robust findings. You know that this is not going to

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Speaker 2: be an inquiry that results in compensation or the restoration

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Speaker 2: of people's jobs. What we want is scrutiny on the

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Speaker 2: people who made those decisions, the former Prime Minister, Chris

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Speaker 2: Hippins and others. We I think, more than anything, don't

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Speaker 2: want that kind of thing to happen again. Public health

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Speaker 2: measures can be justified, but they need to be balanced

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Speaker 2: against individual rights of freedoms and the economic cost of

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Speaker 2: extended lockdowns and mandates on people who really realistically have

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Speaker 2: no additional risk than you would face in the supermarket

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Speaker 2: or in the community.

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Speaker 1: Do you know the address of the submission portal because

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it'll be in the media release. So it's an

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Speaker 2: online portal, so people can easily find that just by

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Speaker 2: googling the Phase two COVID inquiry, and that it should

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Speaker 2: be fairly easier for people to make it submission electronically,

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Speaker 2: and there is an option of requesting to make it

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Speaker 2: in person.

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Speaker 1: Great suff Matthew thank you for waking up early, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for your time. Matthew Hague, lawyer, And here it

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Speaker 1: goes here, it goes here, it goes the big questions.

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Speaker 1: And isn't it good that we've got Illingworth a case

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Speaker 1: instead of someone who was a medical official, a professional

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Speaker 1: who was advising pro vaccine. You've got to be right

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Speaker 1: in the middle, don't you.

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