1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,600
Speaker 1: An expert working group reckons the government should stop buyouts

2
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,280
Speaker 1: for homes that are damaged by flooding or storms, and

3
00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: we've had a few of those lately, haven't we. They

4
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,280
Speaker 1: reckon storms could seriously damage four billion dollars worth of

5
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,840
Speaker 1: housing stock over the next thirty years. Financially unsustainable to

6
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,920
Speaker 1: keep treating the government as the de facto insurer, so

7
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,800
Speaker 1: we should stop buying out people within twenty years. Not

8
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,680
Speaker 1: everyone agrees with this. Victoria University Emeritus Professor Jonathan Boston

9
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,400
Speaker 1: with me tonight, good.

10
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 2: Evening, Good evening, Ryan.

11
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 1: You have said this is morally bankrupt. Why do you

12
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 1: think that?

13
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 2: Well, essentially because Ryan, with climate change, we are facing

14
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,479
Speaker 2: unprecedented and growing risks. We're going to be faced with

15
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,440
Speaker 2: significant accelerating sea level rise which is going to impact

16
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,240
Speaker 2: coastal communities all around the world and Sydney all around

17
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 2: New Zealand and will require large numbers of people to

18
00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 2: be relocated. And the suggestion that such people should be

19
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 2: how can I put it, required to move independently and

20
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,319
Speaker 2: using only their own resources, seems to me to be

21
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:22,080
Speaker 2: ethically highly questionable, practically kind of irresponsible, and politically naive.

22
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: In a society which is interdependent, in which we have

23
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 2: whole communities which are going to have to move. We're

24
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 2: going to need very significant, integrated planning. We're going to

25
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:41,959
Speaker 2: need proper relocation of infrastructure of all kinds, including social

26
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,399
Speaker 2: infrastructure such as health care facilities and schools and so on,

27
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 2: and we can't do that in the kind of risk

28
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 2: environment we're going to be faced with if those who

29
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 2: do not have the means to move are not provided

30
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 2: with some assistance.

31
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 1: The report does say it doesn't say no assistance. It

32
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,640
Speaker 1: says the provision of hard support should continue, but just

33
00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,920
Speaker 1: not be related to property values. In other words, we

34
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,520
Speaker 1: won't buy you out for what your property was worth

35
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:16,240
Speaker 1: pre storm.

36
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 2: Yes, but the kind of hardship assistance I think it

37
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 2: has in mind is simply the sort of assistance you

38
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,360
Speaker 2: might get from MSD to help cover your food costs

39
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,720
Speaker 2: and maybe your rent. It isn't the kind of assistance

40
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,920
Speaker 2: that would enable somebody whose property has become worthless and

41
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 2: who still has a mortgage to then go and purchase

42
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,839
Speaker 2: another property, or if they've got a business, to move

43
00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 2: that business to some other location. So, just putting things

44
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,639
Speaker 2: from perspective, Ryan, I was part of what was called

45
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,200
Speaker 2: the Expert Working Group. I managed to retreat a group

46
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,480
Speaker 2: of thirteen people, shared by the former Chief Justice and

47
00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:00,920
Speaker 2: then a former Justice of the Supreme Court's Arnold. We

48
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,280
Speaker 2: produced a very very detailed report, probably fifteen times longer

49
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,959
Speaker 2: than the one that this independent reference group has produced,

50
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 2: which recognized that the big question here is, you know,

51
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,800
Speaker 2: what are the principles that should inform who pays for

52
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,079
Speaker 2: what in a context where we are faced with unprecedented, unwanted,

53
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 2: often uninsurable risks. And we said there should be buyouts

54
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 2: of residential properties, but there should be a cap on

55
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 2: the total amount to make that affordable, but also that

56
00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 2: we should only assist principal places of residents. We shouldn't

57
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 2: be buying out.

58
00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 1: And how much how much was that going to cost?

59
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,640
Speaker 2: Well, it's going to cost more and more over time,

60
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 2: so we don't.

61
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,600
Speaker 1: Know exactly how much. I mean, it's great to have

62
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 1: a very long report, and it's great that you want

63
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 1: to give everybody money, but how much does it cost?

64
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 1: And can we afford it? And will bankrup the government

65
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 1: in the process.

66
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we won't bankrupt the government. Ryan

67
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 2: if if the suggestion is that moving people out of

68
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 2: harm's way is going to be quote unaffordable, then I

69
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 2: presume it means it's unaffordable full stop, regardless of who's paying.

70
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 2: But that's not the case. We are unlikely to be

71
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 2: faced with a situation in which, if you like, civilization

72
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 2: completely breaks down and we have no capacity to move

73
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,240
Speaker 2: people out of harm's way. So the question is, how

74
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,880
Speaker 2: are we going to do that in a way that

75
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 2: is fair, cost effective, efficient, and so on, in the

76
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 2: kind of interdependent society that we have. So Ryan, I

77
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,440
Speaker 2: didn't say that we would buy everybody out. I very

78
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 2: explicitly said that the recommendations of the expert working Group

79
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,719
Speaker 2: that I was party two would involve caps on the

80
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 2: total amount of assistance, so we wouldn't be giving multimillionaires

81
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 2: millions of dollars for their lost mansions, and that the

82
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,880
Speaker 2: eligibility would be tied to principal places of residence. That

83
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,039
Speaker 2: is designed to ensure fairness, but also to ensure that

84
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 2: those who need assistance will be able to leave. And

85
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 2: we should recognize this is really critical.

86
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 1: It is critical. It's all critical, and I appreciate you

87
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,720
Speaker 1: coming on the program, professor, but we do have to

88
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 1: leave it there. I'm afraid that is Victoria University Emeritus

89
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 1: Professor Jonathan Boston. For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive

90
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,599
Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,

91
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio