1 00:00:07,173 --> 00:00:10,493 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,613 --> 00:00:11,773 Speaker 1: from News Talks at B. 3 00:00:12,813 --> 00:00:16,853 Speaker 2: And our sustainability commentator Kate All aka Ethically Kate is 4 00:00:16,853 --> 00:00:18,693 Speaker 2: with us this morning, Childer Kade. 5 00:00:19,373 --> 00:00:20,573 Speaker 3: Well, there is that how a gun? 6 00:00:20,733 --> 00:00:22,613 Speaker 2: Yeah, good, thank you. I've been looking forward to chatting 7 00:00:22,613 --> 00:00:24,933 Speaker 2: because you're taking on a bit of a confronting subject 8 00:00:24,933 --> 00:00:29,613 Speaker 2: this morning, green burial options. And yeah, I mean for 9 00:00:29,693 --> 00:00:31,813 Speaker 2: most people the question is do you want to be 10 00:00:31,853 --> 00:00:34,133 Speaker 2: buried or do you want them to fire up the kilm? 11 00:00:34,333 --> 00:00:36,933 Speaker 2: But actually it's a little bit more complex than that. 12 00:00:37,013 --> 00:00:40,773 Speaker 2: If sustainability is something that you value at the time 13 00:00:40,853 --> 00:00:43,173 Speaker 2: of life, when your life comes to an end, there 14 00:00:43,173 --> 00:00:45,173 Speaker 2: are lots of different options to consider. So what do 15 00:00:45,253 --> 00:00:46,293 Speaker 2: people need to think about? 16 00:00:47,253 --> 00:00:51,573 Speaker 3: Well, I think firstly they're like, we do have a 17 00:00:51,573 --> 00:00:54,173 Speaker 3: few different options, but I hope that in the future 18 00:00:54,213 --> 00:00:55,893 Speaker 3: we do have more because some of them aren't legal 19 00:00:55,893 --> 00:00:58,013 Speaker 3: in New Zealand, right, But I guess you've got to 20 00:00:58,053 --> 00:01:02,173 Speaker 3: think about not only how can I dispose of my 21 00:01:02,253 --> 00:01:05,853 Speaker 3: body when I'm gone in a way that doesn't harm 22 00:01:05,893 --> 00:01:08,653 Speaker 3: the environment, but actually what good can my body do? 23 00:01:09,173 --> 00:01:11,333 Speaker 3: You know, if you flip it on, you know, think 24 00:01:11,373 --> 00:01:14,173 Speaker 3: about it in a positive light. Then you're not just 25 00:01:14,293 --> 00:01:17,293 Speaker 3: saying no to andbalming, but you're thinking about, oh where 26 00:01:17,293 --> 00:01:19,253 Speaker 3: could I be buried that I could actually have a 27 00:01:19,293 --> 00:01:21,853 Speaker 3: tree planted on top of me, or you know, how 28 00:01:21,933 --> 00:01:25,133 Speaker 3: could you know, how could my body actually nourish the 29 00:01:25,173 --> 00:01:28,013 Speaker 3: earth when I'm gone rather than just not do bad things? 30 00:01:28,213 --> 00:01:28,733 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? 31 00:01:28,853 --> 00:01:32,253 Speaker 2: Ye silver lining somewhere right, Yeah, exactly. 32 00:01:32,533 --> 00:01:35,013 Speaker 3: Well it's like, you know, for me, I think, you know, 33 00:01:35,133 --> 00:01:37,573 Speaker 3: I if I cut my nails, I either do it 34 00:01:37,573 --> 00:01:40,213 Speaker 3: outside or put that in my compost. Same with my hair. 35 00:01:40,733 --> 00:01:46,653 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about composting, you know, bodily items that I 36 00:01:46,693 --> 00:01:49,973 Speaker 3: don't need anymore, but your whole body, right, that's going 37 00:01:50,013 --> 00:01:52,613 Speaker 3: to break down and that actually can be really nourishing. 38 00:01:52,693 --> 00:01:57,413 Speaker 3: So firstly, thinking about what what is my body going 39 00:01:57,493 --> 00:02:00,933 Speaker 3: to do? I know, obviously everyone has different cultural values 40 00:02:00,973 --> 00:02:05,173 Speaker 3: and traditions that may mean they opt for cremation or 41 00:02:05,173 --> 00:02:09,093 Speaker 3: for being berries, but there's so many different things, you know, 42 00:02:09,093 --> 00:02:12,573 Speaker 3: that you can choose within that. So firstly, being embalmed 43 00:02:12,853 --> 00:02:15,173 Speaker 3: is I think it's something people have just gone to 44 00:02:15,373 --> 00:02:19,093 Speaker 3: as a default because it's just kind of traditionally been 45 00:02:19,133 --> 00:02:21,693 Speaker 3: what we do. But a lot more people are moving 46 00:02:21,853 --> 00:02:24,893 Speaker 3: away from embalming because I mean personally, the sort of 47 00:02:24,893 --> 00:02:27,453 Speaker 3: being embalmed. It's like the last thing I would want 48 00:02:27,453 --> 00:02:29,693 Speaker 3: my body to do on this earth to be you know, 49 00:02:29,773 --> 00:02:33,373 Speaker 3: pumped through full of chemicals, your jaw kind of stitched 50 00:02:33,373 --> 00:02:35,853 Speaker 3: it up and you know, to me to look all 51 00:02:35,933 --> 00:02:40,373 Speaker 3: kind of nice. Obviously, embalming can be relevant if the 52 00:02:40,413 --> 00:02:43,173 Speaker 3: funeral is delayed and things like that. But if you 53 00:02:43,933 --> 00:02:46,333 Speaker 3: care for the body and use things like ice and 54 00:02:46,413 --> 00:02:49,053 Speaker 3: kind of you know, more natural methods to preserve the body, 55 00:02:49,333 --> 00:02:53,253 Speaker 3: you can avoid avoid embalming for both a burial or 56 00:02:53,293 --> 00:02:58,773 Speaker 3: a cremation, right, and still you can still, like you 57 00:02:58,813 --> 00:03:01,773 Speaker 3: can still have the opportunity for your friends in Fino 58 00:03:01,933 --> 00:03:04,173 Speaker 3: to be with the body and look at the body 59 00:03:04,653 --> 00:03:08,133 Speaker 3: without being embalmed. Like there's so many different kind of 60 00:03:08,253 --> 00:03:09,133 Speaker 3: natural ways, but they can. 61 00:03:09,893 --> 00:03:13,813 Speaker 2: What about sustainable coffins and shrouds and that kind of thing. 62 00:03:14,613 --> 00:03:17,213 Speaker 3: Yes, So I mean probably a lot of people haven't 63 00:03:17,253 --> 00:03:19,933 Speaker 3: even thought about, you know, will I be in a shroud? 64 00:03:19,973 --> 00:03:23,533 Speaker 3: Because I think in New Zealand that's less common. I 65 00:03:23,573 --> 00:03:25,773 Speaker 3: would say, yeah, okay, have you ever been to a 66 00:03:25,813 --> 00:03:27,573 Speaker 3: funeral with a shroud? 67 00:03:27,693 --> 00:03:27,853 Speaker 1: No? 68 00:03:27,893 --> 00:03:29,573 Speaker 2: I don't think I have. I've been to a few, 69 00:03:30,413 --> 00:03:32,493 Speaker 2: you know, a few funerals with open coffins, but not 70 00:03:32,573 --> 00:03:34,893 Speaker 2: one we're anyone's wearing a shroud. I don't think no, 71 00:03:35,453 --> 00:03:39,333 Speaker 2: So like a excuse my ignorance on this. It's kind 72 00:03:39,333 --> 00:03:40,093 Speaker 2: of like a veil, right. 73 00:03:40,773 --> 00:03:45,053 Speaker 3: Well, it's basically just a lot of cloth. I actually, strangely, 74 00:03:45,373 --> 00:03:48,693 Speaker 3: my uncle wants to be he's fine and well, unhappy, 75 00:03:48,893 --> 00:03:51,973 Speaker 3: but in the future he wants to be buried in 76 00:03:51,973 --> 00:03:54,133 Speaker 3: a shroud. And he has a big connection with India. 77 00:03:54,173 --> 00:03:56,373 Speaker 3: So when I was in India last year, I actually 78 00:03:56,533 --> 00:04:00,133 Speaker 3: got him a shroud. And it's essentially cloth, just a 79 00:04:00,133 --> 00:04:03,493 Speaker 3: lot of it, right, so you can choose. I mean, 80 00:04:03,533 --> 00:04:07,773 Speaker 3: we have a lot of different It was ready, and 81 00:04:08,173 --> 00:04:10,413 Speaker 3: it was funny when I was when I was purchasing it, 82 00:04:10,453 --> 00:04:12,933 Speaker 3: I was being you know, focused on the details, and 83 00:04:12,933 --> 00:04:15,773 Speaker 3: then I realized, oh my goodness, I don't want this 84 00:04:15,893 --> 00:04:20,133 Speaker 3: to be used anyway. So you know shrouds, yeah, places 85 00:04:20,173 --> 00:04:22,213 Speaker 3: like in there. That's actually a really common thing that 86 00:04:22,253 --> 00:04:24,413 Speaker 3: the body is just essentially wrapped in a lot of 87 00:04:24,453 --> 00:04:27,653 Speaker 3: fabric and then there may be some you know, kind 88 00:04:27,693 --> 00:04:31,013 Speaker 3: of rope or ribbons or things tied around it. And 89 00:04:31,293 --> 00:04:32,933 Speaker 3: you know, if you do want that body to be 90 00:04:33,133 --> 00:04:36,053 Speaker 3: present and kind of on display at the funeral. There's 91 00:04:36,093 --> 00:04:41,093 Speaker 3: a shroud barrier bearer, like a shroud carrier, so you know, 92 00:04:41,493 --> 00:04:44,813 Speaker 3: a platform that it can go on, the body can 93 00:04:44,853 --> 00:04:47,533 Speaker 3: be placed on, so it can actually be carried easier, 94 00:04:47,813 --> 00:04:50,053 Speaker 3: so you're not just carry you know, carrying a body 95 00:04:50,053 --> 00:04:53,373 Speaker 3: in cloth. So yeah, thinking about a shroud, thinking about 96 00:04:53,613 --> 00:04:56,813 Speaker 3: natural materials, thinking about if the body is in the 97 00:04:56,853 --> 00:05:01,613 Speaker 3: coffin that hopefully that word is made from sustainable materials 98 00:05:01,693 --> 00:05:06,493 Speaker 3: that aren't treated. Thinking about even the clothes that the 99 00:05:06,573 --> 00:05:10,653 Speaker 3: body is clothed in, you know, like hopefully yeah, natural 100 00:05:10,693 --> 00:05:14,693 Speaker 3: fibers you know, will cotton hemp rather than you're synthed 101 00:05:14,733 --> 00:05:17,853 Speaker 3: a kind of polyesters which will not really break down 102 00:05:18,653 --> 00:05:22,253 Speaker 3: in the ground. And one thing, I've really dived into 103 00:05:22,293 --> 00:05:25,533 Speaker 3: this topic recently and it's been fascinating because I don't think, 104 00:05:25,773 --> 00:05:28,093 Speaker 3: you know, your death is not really a lovely thing 105 00:05:28,133 --> 00:05:30,493 Speaker 3: to talk about, but we really need to think about 106 00:05:30,493 --> 00:05:33,693 Speaker 3: these things because there's so many of us and we'll 107 00:05:33,733 --> 00:05:36,253 Speaker 3: all need to end up, you know, with a body 108 00:05:36,293 --> 00:05:40,053 Speaker 3: we don't need one day. So it's cool. In New 109 00:05:40,133 --> 00:05:44,813 Speaker 3: Zealand we do have more natural burial sites, so places 110 00:05:44,893 --> 00:05:48,933 Speaker 3: where you can opt to be buried, and you have 111 00:05:49,053 --> 00:05:51,973 Speaker 3: to kind of work with the team there to make 112 00:05:52,013 --> 00:05:54,933 Speaker 3: sure that all the materials that are going in the 113 00:05:54,973 --> 00:05:57,853 Speaker 3: ground with the body are natural and won't do damage 114 00:05:57,893 --> 00:06:00,493 Speaker 3: to the environment. And then a tree is placed on 115 00:06:00,533 --> 00:06:04,453 Speaker 3: top of that so kind of in memory and also 116 00:06:04,613 --> 00:06:07,573 Speaker 3: that tree will be well known. But as the body 117 00:06:07,573 --> 00:06:08,253 Speaker 3: breaks down. 118 00:06:08,173 --> 00:06:11,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really like that. So at the moment, what 119 00:06:11,573 --> 00:06:14,133 Speaker 2: would be the most sustainable options in New Zealand detail. 120 00:06:14,813 --> 00:06:18,493 Speaker 3: So until we have water cremation, which is a whole 121 00:06:18,533 --> 00:06:22,533 Speaker 3: other thing where basically the body is Yeah, so that's 122 00:06:22,573 --> 00:06:25,933 Speaker 3: also it's about half the carbon emissions of your natural, 123 00:06:27,733 --> 00:06:31,533 Speaker 3: your normal, normal cremation. So until we have water cremation, 124 00:06:31,613 --> 00:06:34,253 Speaker 3: which is essentially with a lot of heat and pressure 125 00:06:34,533 --> 00:06:37,973 Speaker 3: and alkaline, the body tissues are all broken down and 126 00:06:38,013 --> 00:06:43,173 Speaker 3: you're left with just the bones. So that's basically yeah, 127 00:06:43,373 --> 00:06:45,973 Speaker 3: you're the matter over. I think it's a matter of 128 00:06:46,013 --> 00:06:49,053 Speaker 3: about twelve hours. It just breaks down and doesn't need 129 00:06:49,093 --> 00:06:53,173 Speaker 3: that intense energy that cremation takes. But that's not legal 130 00:06:53,173 --> 00:06:55,773 Speaker 3: in New Zealand yet, but keep an eye on that space. 131 00:06:56,453 --> 00:07:00,093 Speaker 3: We do just have natural burial and cremation. So with cremation, 132 00:07:00,173 --> 00:07:04,453 Speaker 3: obviously that does involve a lot of energy intensity, and 133 00:07:04,533 --> 00:07:10,093 Speaker 3: so thinking about some cremation. Some crematoriums will have kind 134 00:07:10,093 --> 00:07:14,293 Speaker 3: of policy on using energy off peak times and you know, 135 00:07:14,373 --> 00:07:17,533 Speaker 3: really thinking carefully about their karmon admissions, which is great. 136 00:07:17,773 --> 00:07:20,253 Speaker 3: And when you're being buried, thinking about what is the 137 00:07:20,293 --> 00:07:23,013 Speaker 3: body going to be buried and where will it be buried? 138 00:07:23,253 --> 00:07:25,693 Speaker 3: Could I go to one of the natural burial sites 139 00:07:26,093 --> 00:07:30,133 Speaker 3: so that I can find a natural coffin natural materials 140 00:07:30,333 --> 00:07:33,333 Speaker 3: and have a tree planted on top to kind of 141 00:07:33,493 --> 00:07:35,733 Speaker 3: pick up less land use and things like that too. 142 00:07:37,253 --> 00:07:39,533 Speaker 3: Lots of things to think about it. And there's the 143 00:07:39,573 --> 00:07:42,533 Speaker 3: funeral with all the different other elements too. But no, 144 00:07:44,853 --> 00:07:48,213 Speaker 3: absolutely not, absolutely not. But if we think about these 145 00:07:48,253 --> 00:07:51,573 Speaker 3: things early, you know, then we can kind of make 146 00:07:51,693 --> 00:07:54,453 Speaker 3: plans for this and our you know, we can think 147 00:07:55,013 --> 00:07:58,293 Speaker 3: and know and trust that, you know, if you were 148 00:07:58,333 --> 00:08:01,053 Speaker 3: to not need your body any longer, that it would 149 00:08:01,053 --> 00:08:03,733 Speaker 3: be disposed of in a way that was good for 150 00:08:03,773 --> 00:08:04,493 Speaker 3: the earth. 151 00:08:04,693 --> 00:08:07,493 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Hey, thank you so much. That is really 152 00:08:07,533 --> 00:08:10,133 Speaker 2: really interesting food for thought. That is Kate Hall, our 153 00:08:10,173 --> 00:08:12,973 Speaker 2: sustainability commentator. You can find her on the social media 154 00:08:13,013 --> 00:08:15,173 Speaker 2: platforms by searching ethically Kate. 155 00:08:16,053 --> 00:08:19,173 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame. Listen live 156 00:08:19,253 --> 00:08:22,053 Speaker 1: to News Talks ed B from nine am Saturday, or 157 00:08:22,133 --> 00:08:24,053 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio