1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: We're Business meets Insight eight the Business Hour with Heather 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: dupic Element and it mays for Trust at Home Insurance Solutions. 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 2: News Talks b even in coming up in the next hour, 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: Shane Soley on what the market is expecting from the 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: RBA tomorrow, Destination Queenstown on that very high end resort 6 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 2: being built, and Gavin Gray will do the UK for us. 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 3: Right, Let's get you across the one News Varian Pole 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 3: which has just landed. 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: It. 10 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 3: Reckons National is on thirty four percent no change, Labour 11 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: is on thirty three percent up four, the Greens are 12 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,959 Speaker 3: on ten percent down two. New Zealand First on nine 13 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 3: up one, Act on eight no change, the Maori Party 14 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 3: on four. On these numbers, the Coalition government would have 15 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 3: the numbers to govern in the preferred Prime Minister Pol 16 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 3: Chris Luxeon's on twenty down three, Chippy's on three no change, 17 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 3: Winston Peters is up seven, oh is on seven up 18 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 3: one rather Chloes Warbricks on four down one. David Simon 19 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 3: was on four and Shane Jones is on one and 20 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: right now it is eight pas six and Finance Minister 21 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: Nichola Willis is with us Hannikoler. 22 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: Hello, Evan, where are you? I'm in London. 23 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 3: What time is it. 24 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: It's about seven o'clock in the morning here. 25 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 3: Oh, you sound sick. 26 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: It's just a frog in my throat. Don't worry about me. 27 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm absolutely fine. I was just going to say, ask 28 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: you movies to our impression. 29 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 3: Jeez, I'm so impressed and also very grateful that you're 30 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: getting up to chat to us. And if you were 31 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 3: doing that, you know, because you're on the other side 32 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 3: of the world. But if you're doing it's sick as well, 33 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 3: I would owe you big time. So thank you. Now, 34 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 3: what's going on with the polls? Why aren't you guys 35 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: doing better? 36 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: Well, there's been a couple of polls. They both show 37 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: largely that there's a fight on between the coalition and 38 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: the opposition parties. And in my mind that fight's going 39 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: to be about who do you trust to strengthen and 40 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: secure economic growth over the next few years. And frankly, 41 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: the idea that Labor Greens and to Party Marty are 42 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,919 Speaker 1: going to do it is wrong. Yeah, they would confiscate 43 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: wealthy text us. That put us into a lot more 44 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: debt and so our coalition needs to demonstrate that we 45 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: are doing the right things at pace and that these 46 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: will make a difference for New Zealanders. We've got to 47 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: keep working hard at that and the pulse will eventually 48 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: reward us as when we demonstrate it. 49 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: Well, why aren't you demonstrating it already, You've had more 50 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 3: than eighteen months. 51 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: Well, we are demonstrating it with our actions. But the 52 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: reality is the economy is still recovering and that means 53 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: that we're not seeing instant, overnight success. We never claimed 54 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: that we would, but we are doing the right things 55 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: to ensure that more businesses if you're able to expand higher, 56 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: that we can get more investment into the country, that 57 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: we can grow our trade, that we can become a 58 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: wealthier place where people can better deal with the cost 59 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: of living. Those are the right things to be doing, 60 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: and I expect all of my forecasters tell me that 61 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: that will result in a higher growth rate, more income growth, 62 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: lower interest rates, and lower inflation over the next twelve months. 63 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: And that's when the election will be held. Okay, next year, 64 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: not tomorrow. 65 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 3: What have you done apart from the tax boost in 66 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 3: the investment tax boosts that you gave in the budget, 67 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: what have you actually practically done that helps this economy. 68 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: Well, we've brought in the fast tracked legislation, which means 69 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: that major projects the results of that, Well, the Auckland 70 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: Port expansion will take part place this year as a 71 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: result of that, and we're around a dozen other projects 72 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: that are due to good announcements in the next line, 73 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: which we expect will kick off before Christmas. We're replacing 74 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: the entire Resource Management Act. We've removed red tape from farmers. Well, 75 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: by the way are driving it now. We have reduced 76 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: red tape from farmers already in terms of the fresh 77 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: water rules are in terms of what's happening with forestry conversions, 78 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: we've done that work already. We've made sure that our 79 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: employment laws allow small businesses and large businesses to put 80 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: people on ninety day trials. We've reduced some of the 81 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: constraints and our health and safety regulation. We've ensured that 82 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: there is a proper investment going into infrastructure and that 83 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: projects are being delivered faster. 84 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: This is all rats and mice. This is the problem, 85 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: right apart from the stuff. This is all rats and mice. 86 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: I totally agree that the tax boost was necessary, and yes, 87 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: maybe in the future. The fast track stuff will work. 88 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: In the port stuff will work. In the RMA, stuff 89 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 3: will work. But right now we're just dealing with tinkering. 90 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: We're in the biggest recession that we have been in 91 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 3: thirty years. Don't you think you guys should be doing 92 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 3: something fundamental. 93 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: Well, we have done fundamental changes. We've introduced golden visas 94 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: with more than a billion dollars worth of investment. 95 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 3: How much of that money would not other ways in 96 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: the comfort. 97 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: Well, there's more than a billion dollars pledged and those 98 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: will be signed on coming for weeks and months. 99 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 3: Why are you you, Nikola, You are the woman in 100 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 3: charge of finance, and why are you not doing a 101 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 3: better job. 102 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: Well, I would put to you that we are doing 103 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: a good job because actually what we've done is ensured 104 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: that New Zealanders had tax reductions rather than tax increases, 105 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: which would have constrained the economy. We've ensured that inflation, 106 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: which was out of control for three years, has come down. 107 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: We've seen significant interest rate reductions which provide an impetus 108 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: for a revival and the construction undustry. And I'm glad 109 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: to see the conference. 110 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 3: This is reserve bank stuff. You'll have the Reserve Bank. 111 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 3: The Reserve Bank did this, you have. I mean, your 112 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 3: biggest problem right now is you're not running any surpluses. 113 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 3: And the Treasury report that came out on Friday, so 114 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: you need to be running surpluses. 115 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to rebut you there because I've seen 116 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: your commentary on that. The simple factors. Over two budgets, 117 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: we have reduced expenditure by forty four billion. That's how 118 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: many savings that we found, and we have given a 119 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: path that will ensure and you put into something else. 120 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,679 Speaker 1: Portion of the economy comes down from the big high 121 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: of thirty four point four percent under Robertson, it comes 122 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: down to thirty point nine percent over the four year 123 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: forecast period. And we've achieved that by making big changes 124 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: in terms of key we save a subsidies in terms 125 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: of benefit, increase rates in terms of emergency housing, in 126 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: terms of welfare reform, in terms of pay equity, and 127 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: all of those something else. 128 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 3: Nikler and Treasury said, five years on from the start 129 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 3: of the pandemic, core Crown expenditure as a share of 130 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: GDP is still near its twenty twenty level. 131 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: So you actually and it is on track to come 132 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: down significantly, and we did not get a mandate for 133 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: slash and burn economics. Nor do I think that that 134 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: austerity path that Ruth Richardson and others have promoted would 135 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: be the right thing for New Zealand right now, because 136 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: we're because we have put money into our health system 137 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: so that New Zealanders don't need to wait so long 138 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: for an operation. We have put money into our education 139 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: system so that the next generation better educated. No, we 140 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: have absolutely focused money and to core areas health, education, infrastructure. 141 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: Those are things that are needed for our economy to 142 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: be strong. 143 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 3: There's a lot of our stuff we're spending money on 144 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: the here do you know this? We don't have to 145 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 3: spend money, which. 146 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: Is why we have reduced expenditure by forty four billion 147 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: dollars over areas that we believed were not delivering value 148 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: for money. And that's how you do it here. 149 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 3: What about cutting the grocery Commission because he himself says 150 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 3: he does not have the tools to do what needs 151 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: to be done here. So he's ultimately I like the guy, 152 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 3: but he's a waste of space in that role. So 153 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: why don't we get rid of it? 154 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: Well, you've got to get serious heither, because reducing the 155 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: amount of money that goes into the grocery commissioner is 156 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: a zero point zero zero zero percentage of our overall 157 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: government spending. I know that, and what his report is 158 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: well exactly so it's not a solution to this. 159 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: But if you get enough of that stuff, Nicola, you 160 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 3: cut that. You cut the Women's Ministry, you cut the 161 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: Ministry for Pacific Peoples, you cut all those ministry for 162 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: the environment, think tanks, I get rid of them, and 163 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 3: you are. 164 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: Saying none of them would be any but none of 165 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: them would be anywhere near as significant as changing the 166 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: pay equity, raging, stopping the indexation of welfare two incomes. 167 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: None of those things would get anywhere near the order 168 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: of magnitude. We're doing the big things that make structural savings, 169 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: which is actually what New Zealand needs. And on the 170 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: grocery commissioner, actually what he is doing is monitoring what's 171 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: happening in that sector to provide us accurate data before 172 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: we make what are significant policy changes. And actually I 173 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: think that it's important we are well informed about what's 174 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: actually happening with market share, with margins, that sort of thing. 175 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: His reports have led to far greater enforcement of pricing 176 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: and promotion practices, and the supermarkets have changed their turn 177 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: on that now now introducing refund policies. They're now being 178 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: much clearer about their pricing because they know who they're 179 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: being watched by the Commission. In a market where supermarkets 180 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: have market power, someone needs to be watching and calling 181 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: it out when it's not right. 182 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 3: Are you meeting the Gen Taylors later this week? 183 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: I won't be because I'll be in London and then 184 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: in New York. 185 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 3: Who's meeting them? 186 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: Well, look, the Energy Minister regularly meets Gen Taylor's. 187 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 3: Are they going to be talking about the Frontier Report? 188 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: Well, the Frontier Report has been received by the government. 189 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: Our key focus is making sure that our electricity market 190 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: is structured in a way that sure as we get 191 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: good investment and generation, and that our generators have access 192 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: to the fuel they need to generate electricity. 193 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: Because quess what the important thing about the Frontier reporters 194 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 3: apparently that it recommends taking the generation aspect away from 195 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 3: the gent tailors and then bundling it together and the 196 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 3: government running it. Are you open to that? 197 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: As a government? We're considering that report and I'm not 198 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: going to get ahead of Cabinet on it. Our key 199 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: focus is we need generation that works when the hydro 200 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: lakes aren't full, the sun's not shining and the wind 201 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: isn't blowing. Realistically, that is going to mean coal and 202 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: gas for some time. So how do we make sure 203 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: that we're getting enough investment both in power plants that 204 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: can generate electricity using those fuels and that we have 205 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: sufficient access to those fuels so that New Zealand doesn't 206 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: get massive energy spikes in the future that lead to 207 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: de industrialization and expensive electricity prices. 208 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 3: For Keywis, Nicholas, thank you so much for taking the 209 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 3: time to talk to us from London. Best of luck 210 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 3: with everything you're doing there. That's Nichola Willis, the Finance Minister. 211 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 3: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 212 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 3: News Talk Set B from four p m. 213 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: Weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.