Speaker 1: Gielda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. More
Speaker 1: and more Kiwis are heading overseas to see if the
Speaker 1: grass is really greener. On the other side, most of
Speaker 1: us are heading to Australia, with latest figures showing twenty
Speaker 1: seven thousand moves last year, but thousands are still flocking
Speaker 1: to the UK for their oe. People are gambling on
Speaker 1: getting better pay and conditions overseas and escaping New Zealand's
Speaker 1: high cost of living.
Speaker 2: But are things really better.
Speaker 1: Today? On the Front Page, we'll explore what the stats
Speaker 1: say with enz at Herald journalist ben Ley.
Speaker 3: Ben, let's get.
Speaker 1: Some figures on the table up front when it comes
Speaker 1: to New Zealand. What are the general averages when it
Speaker 1: comes to say house prices.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the NZ national price according to property analysts
Speaker 4: care Logic is nine hundred and thirty one thousand, four
Speaker 4: hundred and thirty eight dollars.
Speaker 1: And what about your weekly rentals and the typical salary
Speaker 1: I guess and householding comes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the national rent at the moment is five hundred
Speaker 4: and seventy three dollars according to core logic again, and
Speaker 4: salaries can be measured in different ways. So in one story,
Speaker 4: we measured the household incomes and the ENDZ national household
Speaker 4: income is one hundred and two thousand dollars six hundred
Speaker 4: and ninety. We did that with the inflation calculator, So
Speaker 4: we took a twenty twenty one figure and we added
Speaker 4: salary inflation onto it to come up with that.
Speaker 1: And we're talking about these because so many kiwis are
Speaker 1: flocking overseas, right, how many people are actually moving to
Speaker 1: say the UK or Australia.
Speaker 4: Sure, So Stat's ENZ just released new figures this week
Speaker 4: and the sort of backdated figures they're a bit older,
Speaker 4: but it was for twenty twenty three and they found
Speaker 4: that twenty seven thousand more key we went to Australia
Speaker 4: then came back the other way. Now that is a lot,
Speaker 4: and between twenty fourteen and twenty nineteen we only had
Speaker 4: about three thousand more kiwis going across the Tasman. But
Speaker 4: before that, thirty thousand people per year was about the
Speaker 4: average for the five years back before twenty fourteen, So
Speaker 4: it's not record highs, it's definitely big.
Speaker 5: Well, the numbers are beginning to trend up because what
Speaker 5: was interesting during COVID was we had a knit gain
Speaker 5: from Australia and that's very unusual in our history. So
Speaker 5: for most years in the last thirty years, we've seen
Speaker 5: anit loss. So we're going back to what has been
Speaker 5: an historical pattern.
Speaker 1: So let's go through both Australia and the UK topic
Speaker 1: by topic. How did house prices compare for people looking
Speaker 1: to really settle down in either country?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, Well, let's put it in simple terms.
Speaker 4: London is the most expensive, so it's almost say a
Speaker 4: beast onto itself if the house prices is just in
Speaker 4: excess of Australia and New Zealand cities pretty much because
Speaker 4: it's like a world city rwn. But when you take
Speaker 4: that out of the picture, I'm sorry to say, but
Speaker 4: New Zealand house prices are clearly the next highest, which
Speaker 4: is it's hard to sort of stomach, isn't it. But
Speaker 4: then beyond that, maybe then you've got Australian house prices
Speaker 4: and then the UK excluding.
Speaker 1: London for those younger kiwi's, maybe those looking to do
Speaker 1: an OWI for a few years or a couple of years.
Speaker 1: How does the rental market compare.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so once again kiwis heading to London.
Speaker 4: Rental prices are really expensive in London compared to Australia
Speaker 4: and New Zealand. So just for instance, London's typical weekly
Speaker 4: rent is one thousand dollars in the latest figures that
Speaker 4: we had, and you know, by comparison, Auckland's about six
Speaker 4: hundred and thirty six. So when you take London out
Speaker 4: of the picture then it's actually fairly even the prices
Speaker 4: between all three countries. So yeah, it's a bit of
Speaker 4: a mix, but Australia may be a little bit more
Speaker 4: expensive than New Zealand and the UK to reanting.
Speaker 1: And the UK gets cheaper the further out you get
Speaker 1: from those big cities. Hey, much like New Zealand.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Sure, if you pretty much head north out of London,
Speaker 4: it starts to get cheaper, especially places like Sheffield, Liverpool
Speaker 4: and Leeds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot cheaper than in London.
Speaker 1: And we all know anecdotally that the big draw card
Speaker 1: for going overseas is for the biggest salaries.
Speaker 3: Do the stats actually.
Speaker 4: Support that definitely in the case of Australia. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: think in one of the stories where we compared New
Speaker 4: Zealand household income compared to the Australian states, and it's
Speaker 4: pretty much below most of the Australian states. So if
Speaker 4: you take the Australian Capital Territory, we worked out that
Speaker 4: the household income there was one hundred and forty four
Speaker 4: thousand dollars per year and by comparison, New Zealand's was
Speaker 4: one hundred thousand dollars per year.
Speaker 6: Well, the under twenties are eight percent better off in
Speaker 6: New Zealand. At every other age group, the difference grows
Speaker 6: to about twenty percent in the favor of Australia. Adding
Speaker 6: fuel to the fire. Let's also consider that Australia employers
Speaker 6: at eleven percent of super on top of these wages,
Speaker 6: well in New Zealand we get a poultry three percent. Clearly,
Speaker 6: with the best available data from both countries governments, Australia
Speaker 6: has more money to offer kiwi's of all age groups.
Speaker 4: Just anecdotally. There's one person we spoke to was a
Speaker 4: maths teacher. So he went from Hamilton across to Melbourne
Speaker 4: in Victoria and his salary jumps thirty one thousand dollars
Speaker 4: just by catching the flight basically, so he was a
Speaker 4: fourth year maths teacher. He's getting paid seventy thousand dollars
Speaker 4: in Hamilton. Then when he went to Victoria's salary jumped
Speaker 4: up to ninety one thousand dollars plus superannuation, which took
Speaker 4: it to one hundred and one thousand dollars in total.
Speaker 4: And then when you look at some of the police
Speaker 4: campaigns that have been going on. Last year, the Northern
Speaker 4: Territory Police launched a very high profile campaign to get
Speaker 4: Kiwi cops. It was to live in more remote parts
Speaker 4: of the Northern Territory, but yeah, it was still up
Speaker 4: to sixty thousand dollars higher than and some police salaries
Speaker 4: here in New Zealand. And just in terms of who
Speaker 4: might be going, police are actively recruiting, especially people in
Speaker 4: like healthcare, doctors, nurses and even just on the weekend,
Speaker 4: I was speaking to a police officer who is from
Speaker 4: South Auckland and he just said that he thought there
Speaker 4: was up to eighty police from South Auckland that had
Speaker 4: headed over to Australia in the last six months.
Speaker 3: He migrated from India.
Speaker 4: At some stage, he's got a new baby with his
Speaker 4: newly married wife, or he's expecting.
Speaker 3: He's one month off having his new baby.
Speaker 4: So you can imagine the sort of pressures on someone
Speaker 4: like that when house prices are so high in Auckland
Speaker 4: about why it might be attractive to go across the Tasman.
Speaker 1: Now is actually a pretty good time to bring up
Speaker 1: the fact that you will be able to tell from
Speaker 1: my accent, maybe not from yours, Ben, but we are
Speaker 1: both Australian and you know the irony is not.
Speaker 3: Lost on us.
Speaker 1: For us too speaking about this topic, Gay, Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 4: And you know, I feel like, having done a few
Speaker 4: of these stories, is now that maybe Victoria Police Lauthern
Speaker 4: Territory Police should be paying me a little bit of
Speaker 4: commission for all these people we're helping sand across the Tasman. Right,
Speaker 4: We're here making the sacrifices on lower salaries just to
Speaker 4: boost Australia with all these talented kiwis.
Speaker 3: We just love our jobs so much, that's all. When
Speaker 3: we love New Zealand so much.
Speaker 1: The UK, it's perhaps surprising to see that the opportunity
Speaker 1: for huge incomes isn't as glorious as it may seem.
Speaker 1: What if people you've spoken to said about the lifestyle
Speaker 1: and cost of living.
Speaker 3: There, Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4: So yeah, in the stories for both moving to Australia
Speaker 4: and the UK, we actually talk to the people running
Speaker 4: those Facebook groups that help people move. So Kiwi's moving
Speaker 4: to Victoria and kiwis in London, and so the guy
Speaker 4: who's running Kiwi's in London, he was saying it's great
Speaker 4: for certain skills, you know, like trade's.
Speaker 3: He called it actually a paradise for trades in the
Speaker 3: UK at the moment.
Speaker 4: Nanny's sort of tried and true job for a Kiwi's
Speaker 4: moving across to the UK, and he said there's great money.
Speaker 3: To do live in workers and nanny.
Speaker 4: Other jobs not so easy if you're looking to be
Speaker 4: a receptionist or an administrator. He said, there's lots of competition.
Speaker 4: You know, in Auckland you might face, you know, a
Speaker 4: couple of thousand people looking for the same job. It
Speaker 4: can be millions in London. On the other side of it,
Speaker 4: you know, there's always professionals that go to London and
Speaker 4: it's like a magnetic lure for them. They're going there
Speaker 4: for big salaries already, you know, they're highly trained and
Speaker 4: they can.
Speaker 3: Progress their careers.
Speaker 4: We talked to one couple they called Danny l and
Speaker 4: Lee Mackenzie and they've been living in rodor Ruin. Danniel's
Speaker 4: a librarian and Lee's a musician and when COVID sort
Speaker 4: of dried up the musical opportunities for Lee in Rohodoru,
Speaker 4: that together with the cost of living pressures and the
Speaker 4: fact that Lee has a British citizenship encouraged them just
Speaker 4: to go and try their luck over there. So they've
Speaker 4: moved over to Sheffield in the sort of mid north
Speaker 4: west of the UK and they're getting on great. Like
Speaker 4: danny Al was saying, there's just not much opportunity to
Speaker 4: progress as the library here because there's not many libraries.
Speaker 4: And when she got there, she's now in charge of
Speaker 4: three out of fifteen libraries in her local district. She's
Speaker 4: close to like famous libraries. And Lee is singing at
Speaker 4: beer festivals and in the pub scene. And yeah, they're
Speaker 4: both thriving and they're on salaries equal or better to
Speaker 4: New Zealand and cheaper.
Speaker 1: In what are the supermarket and fuel prices like in
Speaker 1: both Australia.
Speaker 3: And the UK.
Speaker 1: We've got to give these kids moving to London some relief.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, if you move to London then that's
Speaker 4: definitely your favorite. The supermarkets are a lot cheaper from
Speaker 4: what we've seen and what people say an acdotally, one
Speaker 4: person who just moved from the Herald across to London
Speaker 4: was saying Kiwi fruit is cheaper in London, and dairy,
Speaker 4: which is sort of hard to understand. Dairy in particular
Speaker 4: can be three quarters or even half the price in
Speaker 4: the UK. To hear, Australia is also we found was
Speaker 4: also a bit cheaper countdown compared to war, but the
Speaker 4: costs less pronounced. So and then when it comes to petrol,
Speaker 4: Australia is the cheapest. End Z comes in next. And
Speaker 4: then the UK I think feeling sort of geopolitical pressures,
Speaker 4: having a bit of a fuel crisis with gas prices
Speaker 4: going up.
Speaker 2: Petrol hitting an average of one hundred and fifty point
Speaker 2: one pence a liter and that's the highest it's been
Speaker 2: since November, and diesel hitting one hundred and fifty eight
Speaker 2: point three pence a liter. Why the spike. Well, when
Speaker 2: we woke up to news of those missiles in Iran
Speaker 2: on Friday, the price of oil sword temporarily and despite
Speaker 2: that settling, we are feeling those echoes at the pumps
Speaker 2: combined with a weeker pound compared to the dollar.
Speaker 4: And then just anecdotally some of the things about Australia.
Speaker 4: There has been some mention about childcare being more expensive.
Speaker 4: Kiwis in Australia don't have access to as much services
Speaker 4: as Australians in New Zealand do, so that's some of
Speaker 4: the sort of hidden challenges when you move over there.
Speaker 1: And I've seen some comments under your articles with people
Speaker 1: talking about taxes, fees and the like. Are there any
Speaker 1: hidden costs that came up in your research in either country?
Speaker 4: Yeah, taxes is important, but we didn't look into it
Speaker 4: too closely for these stories, so I can't really say
Speaker 4: too much about that.
Speaker 3: Hidden costs.
Speaker 4: Like I mentioned earlier, childcare is one that just came
Speaker 4: up a lot in Australia UK sort of petrol prices, actually,
Speaker 4: I should say in Australia, buying a car is something
Speaker 4: that comes up a lot. So while the petrol might
Speaker 4: be cheaper, most people talked about buying a car as
Speaker 4: being quite a lot more expensive.
Speaker 1: When you look at the numbers like this, it does
Speaker 1: seem like, particularly in Australia, there are some slightly better
Speaker 1: opportunities over there would you agree, and do you think
Speaker 1: the New Zealand government needs to do anything to address
Speaker 1: this to try and kind of stop people flocking overseas
Speaker 1: for greener pastures.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a tough one. I mean, the key one
Speaker 3: is salaries.
Speaker 4: Everyone I spoke to almost that went to Australia is
Speaker 4: just talking about salaries.
Speaker 3: They just tend to be so much higher.
Speaker 4: And when you take the higher salary and compare it
Speaker 4: to house prices, it just makes a really tough pressure
Speaker 4: on locals here, especially in Auckland and other major cities
Speaker 4: in New Zealand. So it's difficult for the government to
Speaker 4: improve those things. As a property reporter, I would almost
Speaker 4: argue that government has very little impact over the housing markets,
Speaker 4: so it's difficult for them to do anything substantial to
Speaker 4: bring down house prices. In terms of salaries. Often it
Speaker 4: goes back to sort of productivity and opportunities, doesn't it.
Speaker 4: So I guess I really feel that if the government
Speaker 4: can focus on things to help productivity, more job opportunities,
Speaker 4: boost salaries, anything they can do to improve house prices
Speaker 4: and probably more importantly a lot of things around infrastructure
Speaker 4: and just daily life, you know, so that people enjoy
Speaker 4: living here and don't feel the pressures of the costs
Speaker 4: as much because they're enjoying a really nice life.
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts on moving back to Aussie.
Speaker 4: I've married someone who is on the paths in New
Speaker 4: Zealand citizenship, which he's just achieved, so we're not sure yet.
Speaker 4: That was sort of the main plan was to stick
Speaker 4: around for her citizenship, and I guess we'll be here
Speaker 4: for a while yet and after that not sure, but
Speaker 4: it's always a pull back for your own family and
Speaker 4: maybe the sunshine.
Speaker 3: A bit warmer.
Speaker 1: But you're from Melbourne, aren't you. Yeah, yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: bit of a stretch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is at.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Ben, Thank you, Chelsea. That's it
Speaker 1: for this episode of The Front Page. You can read
Speaker 1: more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzed
Speaker 1: Herald dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced
Speaker 1: by Ethan Siles with sound engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels.
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow
Speaker 3: For another look behind the headlines.