1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Now there is some confusion about whether David Seymour's Treaty 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Principals bill is dead in the water or not in 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: the house. Last night Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters sounded 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: like he was up for changing his mind on this evidence. 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: To change one's mind, as a famous economist once said, 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: when the facts change, I changed my mind. 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: What do you do now? Since then he has said 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: I was just a throwaway comment and Deputy Prome Minister 9 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: Winston Peters is with us now Hello Winston, Hello, So 10 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: are you open to supporting the bill or not? 11 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,639 Speaker 2: No? Because there are no principles in the treaty? Why 12 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: I said that in a treaty ized written by a 13 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 2: famous Marie eployer and politician. So in nineteen twenty two, 14 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 2: one or two years ago, considered out much class to 15 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: the action, agreed to buy all of seller parliament terns. 16 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: Who a marii and before that by the famous W 17 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: Prome Minister buck H himself was a Mary. So now 18 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: much plot of the action to the educated historical record 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: rather than this work make it up as you go 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: along edition coming out of by some of our universities. 21 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: So when are you going to vote? It down. 22 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: Well, it's reverted to have a first reading, and therefore, 23 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: in the condition that we said that's it, we will 24 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: not be supporting it in the second reading. 25 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: And your reasoning for doing that is because there are 26 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: no principles in the treaty. 27 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Well, if you go to the famous Land 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: case of nine eighty seven, those five judges were wrestling 29 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: other spirit issue and they could not agree that to 30 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 2: a principle. So how come we've got people constructing principles now. 31 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Had of yeah nothing, Yeah, But see, the problem that 32 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: you've got is that if you don't vote for this, 33 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: you're going to end up with all the crappy principles 34 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: we've already got. So you're gonna have principles either way. 35 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: You just have to choose which principles you want. 36 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 2: No, no, sorry, no, we're not. We're going to set 37 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: the record straight. 38 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: How many of you people removed already because this was 39 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: your coalition promise, you're going to take them out. 40 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a record on this way back in 41 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: nine eighty seven, when those judges were wrestling in this case, 42 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: I said, if no one in the British Empire or 43 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: in the UK at that time was was in partnership 44 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 2: with Queen Victoria on the fifth of February forty How 45 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: can the mar be on the seventh of February. 46 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: Okay, how many principles have you taken out of legislation 47 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: since you've been in government? 48 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: Now, we've taken out references to the principles and we're 49 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: working on those as we go. 50 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: Along, and out of which legislation. 51 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: All legislation that mentions it we are addressing now. 52 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, but how many have you taken out? 53 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 2: Well, at the time we got either a regular of 54 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: fifty five different references, but we had to make sure 55 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: they were exhausted. We had to make sure that if 56 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: there was any reference to it, it applied to a 57 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: previously decided case and not making it up of the 58 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: go along. 59 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: Okay, so are you telling me Winston that you have 60 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: taken fifty five references out to date? 61 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: Now? I said you, we are going to the process 62 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 2: of perturbly examining all legislation that made references where they're 63 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 2: inappropriate because it's got no commission with the issue you 64 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: add all. But if we're doing to pull Corky, that's cool. 65 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: There's lots of things I want to do in the world. 66 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm asking you how much you've done, and so far 67 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: I can tell you've taken no references out. 68 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: That is utterly one. We've worked on things and piece 69 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: of legislation that have been handled already. 70 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: I'm just the point that I'm trying to make here, Winston, 71 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: is that you've got one of your coalition partners who's 72 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: actually doing something in the space, and you're going to 73 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: kill it, whereas you're talking about doing something if you 74 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: haven't done anything, So we may end done in a 75 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: situation where it stays the same. 76 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: Look, don't come relative this not understand I'm setting out 77 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: to you very carefully. Mister Seymour's mistake is to say 78 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: the very thing that we've been saying doesn't and couldn't happen. 79 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: He is saying, we want to have bill about the 80 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: principal's prey waiting. So he's brought into the rota argument 81 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: of activist judges mother say, and seriously activists university people 82 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: who are out there preaching it's a hint of separation, 83 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: which we don't buy it to. Now I get you, boys, 84 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: they made that very clear that's what you were. 85 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: Okay, fine, if you don't like the principles. Then you're 86 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: going to have to somehow rewrite legislation to wipe all 87 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: the principles. Are you're planning to do that? 88 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: We are removing references, you're removing references. 89 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: That's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you, are 90 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: you going to rewrite all the principles or scrap them all? 91 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: Because it seems to me, David Seymour at least is 92 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: replacing a whole smallest board of principles with three principles 93 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: that may be better, whereas your solution is we continue 94 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: with all the crappy principles. We don't like. 95 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: This is amazing, it seems to you because we don't 96 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: understand the issue. So totally understand. That's some of us. 97 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: We're respectful of person called Lata who laid out exactly 98 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: what the taity of White Tongue was about. And I 99 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: agree with it you wrote in nineteen twenty two, and 100 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: having read that document and I got an original copy 101 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: of this book, I believe it's right. I believe for 102 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: so when I was yeaholder, and I still believe it, 103 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: and I was involved in more Land cases to help 104 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: Mari and Maris help. 105 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: But this is kind of beside the subject. 106 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: Right. 107 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: I understand that you have a problem with the principles, 108 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: but you're not getting rid of them. 109 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: It is if you're going to put a short man, 110 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: because I'm not going to engage in that, because I 111 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: do have to believe I don't know mass matority of 112 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: people lollam mari supporting me in my view on this matter. 113 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: They do not think their chiefs will missing it. They 114 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 2: do not think their chiefs hould they know they're chiefs 115 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 2: were calling out and screaming for a treaty of that 116 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: very nature as mean that the years didn't have to 117 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 2: assist the February A forty. 118 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: What do are you? Okay? Are you going to get 119 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: rid of the principles that you disagree with? 120 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 2: If the legislation has no reference to them, then their 121 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: principles will not be in their legislation. It's actually matter. 122 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 2: Don't you follow it? 123 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: No, I do follow it. You're taking you're taking references 124 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: out of the legislation, but the principles continue to exist. 125 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: Whereas David Seymour wants to override. 126 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: The manciples, no, no, sorry, if you through the primples 127 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: of treaty writing you say, can't design will be removed 128 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: from the legislation. Yeah, that's what we campaigned on, that's 129 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: what we said, that's in the coalition agreement. 130 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: I think we're talking past each other. But Winston listen, 131 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate it. At least we got to 132 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: the bottom of it. So you're going to vote it down. 133 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: Now we're back to Winston Peter's New Zealand First and 134 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: Chris Lux inter National are going to kill the thing. 135 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: At second reading, Winston Peter's Deputy pro minis thanks for 136 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: a time. For more from hither Duplassy Allen Drive. Listen 137 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 138 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.