WEBVTT - Measles case sparks outbreak fears - how worried should we be? 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:05.560 Hilda. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.840 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:10.559 daily podcast. 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.039 Presented by the New Zealand Herald. 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.360 New Zealand is on high alert after an Auckland ferry 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.600 worker tested positive for measles. They were infectious while on 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.240 board a number of Buller's three sixty sailings on May fifth, 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.440 at a Kelston supermarket. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.720 And downtown car park. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.360 Two days later they were at Unicem New Lynn and 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.559 Packensave Mount Albert. The marine crew member had recently traveled 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.680 to Asia, but they weren't infectious on their flight home. 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.320 So how concerning is this latest outbreak? And have we 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.000 not learned anything from our days of COVID? Today on 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.879 the front Page, University of Auckland Senior lecturer and research 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.560 virologist Natalie Netzler joins us to take us through the 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.400 does and don'ts when it comes to measles. And just 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.640 a quick note after we recorded this interview, Health Minister 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.240 Simeon Brown released updated Health New Zealand vaccination data. Just 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.880 over eighty percent of all kids are now fully immunized 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.679 by the age of two, the highest rate since twenty 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.640 twenty two. 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.880 So this may seem like a silly question. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.280 But for those of us who don't know or just 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.680 don't think about measles because we're I don't know vaccinated, 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.480 what exactly is measles and why is it such a concern. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.800 Yeah, measles is a really dangerous virus, and I think 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.880 it's really underestimated. It's highly contagious, and it's spread through 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.000 the air through coughs and sneezes and droplets. I think 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.640 what's most concerning is that if you're unvaccinated, nine out 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.600 of ten people can catch this. If they're exposed, you 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.120 get symptoms like cough, red eyes, running nose, spots in 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.320 the mouth, and sometimes a fever and a rash. But 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.240 what's more concerning is that over one in ten of 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:01.120 those who are infected will need hospital care. The complications 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:03.880 that range from something simple like an air infection, but 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.560 right through to things like permanent hearing loss, brain inflammation, 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.800 and even death. And we see that one in a 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.799 thousand people in New Zealand that are infected will end 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.799 up dying, and that's usually from pneumonia. I think what's 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.760 even more concerning and people don't really know about, is 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.080 that measles can also make our immune system forget. So 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.400 if we are unvaccinated and we get infected, then the 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.040 measles actually turns off our immune system, so it forgets 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.240 some of the things that we're previously been trained to 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.280 be protected against, so we actually get more sick in 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.840 the period after we have measles from other things that 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.240 shouldn't normally make us sex. So it's a really dangerous virus. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.360 Looking at what we know about the current outbreak, how 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.160 concerning is it having these locations of interest. 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:49.720 It feels like we're back in twenty twenty. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.880 Absolutely. I think for all of those that are vaccinated, 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.320 we're really well protected by the measles vaccine MMR gives 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.760 ninety nine percent protection after two doses, so we are 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.560 all safe. But what's more concerning is that we have 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.400 quite low vaccination rates over all for measles at the moment, 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.040 and with this one imported case, because it's so contagious, 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.959 everybody that's unvaccinated and has been close to this person 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:17.520 or in these areas of interest, they can be exposed 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:20.679 and catch the virus. We've seen lots of cases overseas 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.320 and here where we know measles can stay in the 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.639 air for a couple of hours after a cough or 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.720 a sneeze, so you might walk into a room and 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.240 not even know that someone with measles was there before you, right. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.280 And a fairy into supermarket. Those feel like quite concerning 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:35.520 areas of contact. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.560 Particularly. I think fairies are quite small, closed spaces, and 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.800 things like the bathroom, really you're sort of trapped and 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.680 they're breathing that same air. So those are certain areas 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.640 that would be high risk for exposure. 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.640 So how good or bad are our vaccination rates at 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:51.120 the moment. 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.800 I think what we're seeing at the moment is they're 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.320 really just too low. So currently the rates that are 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:01.200 reported that we're between seventy six and seventy seven percent 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.920 of our two year olds are vaccinated overall for our immunizations. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.320 But what's really concerning is that this is much lower 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.680 in some of our communities due to our really lack 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.120 of access and chronic systemic barriers. So what we're seeing 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.920 for some of our Mighty communities is around thirty five 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.440 percent our immunization coverage and forty four percent for some 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.279 of our Pacific communities. This is really concerning because after 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.960 the twenty nineteen outbreak of measles and some more, we 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.440 saw over eighty people died, but even more tragically, they 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:36.640 were mostly children under the age of four. So we 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.000 really need to get our IMS rates up to protect 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:39.719 our children. 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.440 So you mentioned there are some barriers. Why are those 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:44.160 vaccination rates so low? 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.159 I think, really it is very complex. So one of 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:51.400 the real battles we have is misinformation and disinformation all 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.000 about vaccines, but particularly about MMR. I think what's really 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.320 important is that we get more funding from the government 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.039 to make sure that we can have community led in 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.080 initiatives to make sure that we deliver vaccines in a 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.039 way that is appropriate and is easy. So we see 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.039 a lot of access barriers in are harder to reach communities, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.200 but we also see some real champions. We see cases 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.960 like the moukor van into Taytikuo, which is taking the 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.320 vaccine out to people that can't necessarily get to a clinic, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.719 which is really encouraging. So I think if we could 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.840 put more funding into these areas where we can overcome 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.560 some of these barriers, then that will make a big difference. 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:31.400 But things like access to clinics, lack of trust using 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.480 a communication model that's one size fits all, these are 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:39.200 the barriers we really need to overcome measles. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:40.960 Vaccines limit the spread. 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.240 Well, you said, you said it was the most effective 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.320 way to limit this limit the spread. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.560 Yeah, you know with the present trum's possession of my 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:53.280 possession is there is people who do not want to 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.360 get vaccine and that's their choice, right, and we are 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:59.120 to be able to treat them, and we know how 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:00.719 to treat them and die there. It's wry to have 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.080 the betest information al treat Thumb understood that, and we're 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:09.080 focusing on that. But better to get to I get 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.880 the vaccine right because it doeses it limits. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.880 Well and it prevents it. Right, It's it's preventing the illness. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.359 You know, two doses per effective and you said that, 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.760 you said that is this a vaccine that requires a booster. 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.839 So this vaccine needs two doses to give you lifelong protection. 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.200 One dose is better than none. You get ninety five 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.720 percent coverage, but it's best to get two doses and 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.640 that gives you ninety nine percent coverage against affection for 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.400 the rest of your life. Right. 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:40.520 And the only way like is there any way to 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.240 kind of because you usually get it when you're young, right, 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.240 So you just have to ask your parents if you 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:46.960 got it, or is there a record or somewhere. 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.440 Yeah, that's a really good question, and I think you know, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.400 normally we would hope that would be part of your 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.200 normal immunization schedule, so you get one at twelve and 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.520 fifteen months. But what's really important is that people like 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.080 me and my vintage you didn't necessarily have good records 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.919 of whether or not you'd been vaccinated against measles because 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.400 it was introduced and taken back and then introduced again 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:08.760 in the seventies as they got better vaccines, and so 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.400 I had no record of my own measles vaccine. So 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.000 it's perfectly safe to go back as an adult and 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.240 get your catch up doses, which I did and you don't. 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.320 It doesn't matter if you had it previously and you're 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.800 not sure you can actually safely get those two doses 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.120 again to make sure you're fully covered. So I would 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.760 strongly suggest that you go along. It is free if 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.560 you were born after the first of January nineteen sixty nine, 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:30.800 and that's exactly what I did. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.640 Yeah, I remember in twenty nineteen that summer in outbreak, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.720 I had to frantically call my dad and he had 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.800 to rifle through boxes of old paperwork to try and 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.320 get my vaccination records. It felt like for a while 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.360 there that measles was pretty close to being eradicated at 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.280 one point, Right, So what's led to this kind of turn? 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.760 Yeah, I think that's what's so tragic is that it's 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.000 vaccine preventable and we could eradicated if we had sort 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.640 of the right approach. But I think a lot of 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.640 there are a lot of complex reasons why vaccination rates 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.360 have driven I think all of us are a little 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.560 bit overhearing about COVID, and I think the COVID vaccine 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.560 being mandated has made a lot of people have some 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.280 sort of fatigue around vaccines. I think again that misinformation 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.440 and disinformation really does a road trust, and that's something 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.960 that we have to work really hard to communicate the 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.520 right information to people so that they can make them 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.480 formed decisions. I also think one thing that I rarely 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.760 discovered working with our communities around the COVID time to 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.000 answer questions, is that a lot of the population, a 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.320 lot of us are not actually anti vax We just 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.680 want answers to our own specific questions about the vaccine 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.400 safety and effectiveness. So what I found is a lot 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.280 of mums and dads just wanted to know, my child 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.040 has this, you know, this heart condition or they have 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.520 this illness, is the vaccine still safe for them? And 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.319 I found that if we could answer those questions, which 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.199 a GP or a health provider can help answer, then 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.000 people were much more likely to go and get the vaccine. 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.040 So it really is just making sure that people have 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.640 all the right information from good sources so that they 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.760 can go and make informed decisions about getting up to 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.720 date on their immunizations, because that really is the single 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.080 best way to protect ourselves against measles. 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.160 Yeah, and I know a lot of people want to 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.959 move on from COVID, But do you think we've moved 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:17.959 on a bit too much and have forgotten some of 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.920 those key lessons, Like you basically never see anyone wearing 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.120 masks out in public anymore when they're clearly sick. My 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.480 producer was at the supermarket the other day, for example, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.439 and saw a man coughing all of the food without 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:29.440 making any attempt to. 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:30.120 Cover his mouth. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:34.120 There's just some basic things we're probably taught at school, 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:38.079 and it doesn't seem that hyperbolic to say we've forgotten 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:38.640 about them. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.640 Yeah, look, I think again a lot of people are 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.440 a bit overhearing about COVID, but that doesn't stop the 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.959 fact that infectious diseases are still out there and we're 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.000 still getting exposed and falling sick. As I mentioned, there 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:54.600 are very few solutions to measles other than immunization, and 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.600 it's the same for a lot of viruses. We don't 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.480 have specific treatments for a lot of viral diseases. Munization 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.480 is the single best thing you can do, but there 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.760 are other things you can do to boost your immune 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.000 system as well, for example, getting enough sleep, getting some sun, 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.400 eating while reducing stress. These things really keep your immune 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.200 system strong. But as you mentioned, it's really important to 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.360 stay home if you're sick to stop the spread of 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.200 infectious diseases. And if you absolutely must go out, if 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.000 you live alone and you need food and you can't 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.240 get it delivered, then it is really important to keep 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.400 your distance and wear a mask. It's just these basic 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:27.480 rules so that we can try and stop the spread 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:38.200 of these infectious diseases, including measles. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.200 But we are approaching winter, a lot of people I 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.000 know are starting to get sick. It's going around the office, 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.720 so probably everywhere, every other office as well. What do 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.240 we need to keep in mind as those winter bugs 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:50.600 start to spread about. 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.760 Yeah, I think it's just those basics. Back to basics, 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.160 keeping your immune system strong, getting immunized where you can, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.800 Keeping in mind that there's lots of infectious diseases out 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.720 there that we don't have specific treatments or vaccines too, 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.719 so keeping yourself safe again. Those the best ways to 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.520 keep your immune system as strong as possible is to 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.480 get enough sleep and reduce your stress, keep moving, a 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.079 little bit of vitamin D sunlight, particular in these winter months. Actually, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.200 vitamin D deficiency is a big issue for our immune system, 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.520 So getting out into some of that little winter sun, 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.600 going for a bit of a walk, getting our bodies moving, 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.360 eating well. All these simple basic rules are the best 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.959 ways to keep our immune system strong. But again, immunization 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.160 is the single best way to protect ourselves against measles. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.000 Most at risk of those who have not been vaccinated, 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:45.199 so for us that is under twelve months babies and 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:49.840 then anybody who hasn't had two measles containing vaccination. So 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.760 in New Zealand we use MMR the measles month through 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.840 BELLA vaccination. You need to have two of those to 0:11:55.880 --> 0:12:00.559 be completely protected. So those born between nineteen sixty nine 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:04.800 in two thousand and four may have only received one vaccination, 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:08.559 So we're especially asking those people to check your vaccination records. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:12.040 With winter approaching and hospitals already filling up, the last 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:18.480 thing our health system needs is an outbreak. There's a 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.960 high trust model to the public health response, now, isn't there. 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:23.839 I mean, people are being asked to get in touch 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.959 if they believe they aren't considered immune. But if you've 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.720 chosen not to be vaccinated, are you really going to 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.160 engage with the health authorities? Or am iybe just being 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:33.400 a bit too pessimistic? 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.480 Care Again, I sort of come back to the work 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.839 that we did with communities in COVID when we were 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.840 answering questions about the virus. So I think one thing 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.800 that really comes across here is that these communities, often, 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.440 these communities that have low vaccination rates, it's not because 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.319 they necessarily just don't want the vaccine. What we hear 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.600 from them is that there is certainly a lack of trust, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.440 But often actually what we hear is that it's a 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.559 lack of access to the right information. I think if 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.120 we have this one size fits all approach for communications 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.280 about our medicines and our vaccines that just isn't going 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.440 to work. And again I come back to the fact 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.840 that the work we did during COVID showed me that 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.280 a lot of people are not anti vacs. They just 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.440 really want their specific questions answered, and it's about knowing 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.679 who to go to for those that information. And I 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:24.720 think one thing that we could really do better as 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.400 a nation is having government funding that really backs community 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.760 leaders that are trusted within that community, that can help 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.360 share the right information and the right way for these 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.880 communities so that we get trusts in uplift. And we 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.880 saw this actually during COVID. The more work we did 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.320 in this, the more investment we made, the higher those 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.120 immunization rates got. And we actually saw for a while 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.360 they're pecific communities were leading the rates in terms of 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.559 New Zealand vaccinations against COVID. So it really is about 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.439 getting that communication out and getting it right and making 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.360 sure that people really do have the right information in 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.439 the right format to make informed decisions. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.920 It's interesting you bring that up, actually, because I remember 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.439 that and it really points to the fact that targeted 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.559 messaging for different communities really works. Hey, so if you 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.640 had a magic wand ruguess of magic checkbook, would that 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:14.640 be the first thing you do? 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.560 Yeah? Look, if I if I was a billionaire and 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.240 I could self fund these things, I think, really it 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.240 is about protecting children, and it really is about making 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.280 sure that parents understand that the vaccines we have in 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.880 New Zealand, they've gone through so many hoops and so 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.760 many tests to make sure that they are absolutely safe 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.400 for use. But it's also about knowing what, where and 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.600 where they can't be used. And so I think what 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.040 I would do is fund community leaders in every single 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.880 community that are already trusted, that have people's ear, and 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.240 make sure that they have the right information and then 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.200 make sure that they can pass that on and share 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.960 that with communities and maybe have this two way dialogue 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.400 where that person is sort of a champion in both directions, 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.720 can get the latest sort of information from from health 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.680 providers and then pass that into communities, and then they 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.600 can pass back the questions and really have that dialogue 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.920 so that it's not just one message going out saying 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.640 you should do this. Trust us when we've done terrible 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:13.960 things in the past, and you know you should just 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:16.280 sort of forget all that and take this medicine to 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.240 stop you from getting sick. It would be more of 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.840 a dialogue in terms of making sure that people understand 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.400 exactly what is in the vaccine, that it's been tested 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.280 rigorously to make sure it's very safe, that it is 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.760 the best way to keep our tomadiki out of hospital. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:31.960 Thanks for joining us, Natalie, Thank you very much for 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:32.320 having me. 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.320 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.160 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:47.240 at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.000 produced by Ethan Seals and Richard Martin, who is also 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:52.200 our sound engineer. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.640 I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the. 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.000 Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.120 and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.