Speaker 1: Gilda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. The
Speaker 1: Government is keen on making it easier to get more
Speaker 1: drivers on our roads. If proposed changes announced this week
Speaker 1: go through. The second practical driving test required for a
Speaker 1: full license will be scrapped and the number of eyesight
Speaker 1: tests needed will be reduced, with new safety measures being
Speaker 1: introduced as well. It comes as the government continues with
Speaker 1: its pledge to reverse Labour's blankets speed limit reductions, something
Speaker 1: National campaigned on. But will a more affordable driver's license
Speaker 1: system and higher speed limits in some areas make our
Speaker 1: roads any safer. Today on the Front Page, we're joined
Speaker 1: by AA Road Safety spokesperson Dylan Thompson to discuss the
Speaker 1: government's latest plans for our roads. So, Dylan, the proposal
Speaker 1: on changes to how you actually achieve your full license
Speaker 1: is out for public consultation. It includes new safety measures
Speaker 1: like a clean driving record of restricted drivers, harving the
Speaker 1: demerit threshold and introducing a zero alcohol limit for learner
Speaker 1: and restricted drivers of any age. Now take me through
Speaker 1: these changes? Are they long overdue use?
Speaker 2: From the AOS perspective, we think that all those changes
Speaker 2: that you just mentioned would be good things that we support.
Speaker 2: At the moment, we have a zero alcohol limit up
Speaker 2: till the age of twenty, and then beyond that point
Speaker 2: you just have the standard point zero five adult alcohol limit.
Speaker 2: And what this change would mean is that anybody on
Speaker 2: a learner or a restricted license, regardless of their age,
Speaker 2: would have a zero alcohol limit. So it would only
Speaker 2: be once you had achieved a full driver license and
Speaker 2: were over the age of twenty that you could consume
Speaker 2: any alcohol legally and get behind the wheel. We think
Speaker 2: that's a good change. When you have people who, regardless
Speaker 2: of their age, they have less experience on the roads,
Speaker 2: they're still learning, they're still developing their skills, all those
Speaker 2: kind of things, you want to not have anything that
Speaker 2: can make your judgment of reactions worse, which alcohol can do.
Speaker 2: There's no reason for somebody to have to need to
Speaker 2: consume any alcohol in driving, So having a zero alcohol
Speaker 2: limit until you get a full license makes a lot
Speaker 2: of sense to us. The other changes really that are
Speaker 2: being proposed, you could just call them really making tougher
Speaker 2: consequences for people if they break the rules when they're
Speaker 2: on a learner or restrictive license, we think that there's
Speaker 2: a lot of good positive benefits to doing that. It's
Speaker 2: the highest risk group on the roads in terms of
Speaker 2: crash rates. People under twenty five and people who have
Speaker 2: only recently started to drive have the highest crash rates
Speaker 2: on the roads. And right now, far too many are
Speaker 2: quite comfortable about breaking a whole bunch of rules. And
Speaker 2: so if we can have more of a deterrent or
Speaker 2: more incentives to get those people to stick to the
Speaker 2: rules because they don't want to risk losing their license
Speaker 2: or taking longer to progress to a full license, we
Speaker 2: think that could actually motivate people more than the prospect
Speaker 2: of a fine. That actual risk to a license may
Speaker 2: make some of those people better behave and stick to
Speaker 2: the rules, and that means less people using cell phones
Speaker 2: while they're driving, potentially not wearing seat belts, driving drunk, speeding,
Speaker 2: all those kind of things.
Speaker 1: The Transport Minister Chris Bishop says New Zealand is an
Speaker 1: outlier internationally in requiring a practical test for someone on
Speaker 1: a restricted license applying for their full license.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is true. So New Zealand is one of
Speaker 2: the few countries in the world that has two on
Speaker 2: road driving tests. Most other similar countries like ours, have
Speaker 2: just one on road driving tests, which would be like
Speaker 2: the equivalent of when you get your restrictive license in
Speaker 2: New Zealand. Currently, most of those other countries that only
Speaker 2: have one test also have requirements for a certain number
Speaker 2: of hours of practice that learner drivers have to clock
Speaker 2: up and complete before they can sit that test. So
Speaker 2: some countries have requirements for having to complete certain number
Speaker 2: of practice hours with a supervising driver who is somebody
Speaker 2: with a full driver's license, and other countries, mainly in Europe,
Speaker 2: they have requirements for learners have to complete a certain
Speaker 2: number of professional lessons or hours of professional training before
Speaker 2: they can sit that test. So from the AA's perspective,
Speaker 2: we think New Zealand could look at moving to one
Speaker 2: single on road test. But what we think should be
Speaker 2: part of that if we're going to do it, is
Speaker 2: introducing some minimum number of hours that learners would have
Speaker 2: to complete of super high practice before you could sit
Speaker 2: that test. Do we know why people don't have their
Speaker 2: fool license?
Speaker 3: We don't know exactly. I'm an anecdotally certainly people I
Speaker 3: talk to going from your restricted to your full sitting
Speaker 3: that second test. If you already know how to drive.
Speaker 3: It's really stressful. It's not expensive, by the way, it's
Speaker 3: one hundred bucks. You've got to take time off school
Speaker 3: or work or whatever you're doing. You've got to go
Speaker 3: bock it. You've got to find a time that suits everybody.
Speaker 3: A lot of people just don't bother graduating from their
Speaker 3: restrictor to their full So there's a lot of people
Speaker 3: out there right now breaking the law, just driving on
Speaker 3: they're restricted. That's not good. You also want young people
Speaker 3: in particularly to graduate through the system properly, and so
Speaker 3: we're bringing New Zealand into line with other countries.
Speaker 1: I got my driver's license in South Australia, and I
Speaker 1: remember that all those trips, and we had a log book.
Speaker 4: That my dad had to sign.
Speaker 1: Every time I'd drive to work or drive back or something.
Speaker 1: We'd log it in the book and then take that
Speaker 1: book and then go get the practic driving test.
Speaker 2: Why is there such.
Speaker 1: An adverse reaction to there being two practical tests though?
Speaker 1: Doesn't they give us the assurance that we need to
Speaker 1: have someone on our roads full time.
Speaker 2: I guess the way the government's looking at it is
Speaker 2: sort of asking are we actually getting benefits and do
Speaker 2: we need that second test because it does come with
Speaker 2: additional cost for people of having to pay about one
Speaker 2: hundred dollars for doing that second test, and assuming that
Speaker 2: they pass it that first time, and especially in a
Speaker 2: bunch of more rural provincial parts of New Zealand things
Speaker 2: like that, it can take quite a bit of time
Speaker 2: and travel for somebody to go and do that second test.
Speaker 2: They might have to take a day off work or
Speaker 2: the outside of school, they might have to get a
Speaker 2: family member or somebody to drive them quite a distance
Speaker 2: to get to the testing location. The government is really,
Speaker 2: i guess, asking the question of is that needed and
Speaker 2: is it really delivering benefits to road safety? And if not,
Speaker 2: then could we reduce some costs and make it's a
Speaker 2: bit cheaper and easier for people to get a license.
Speaker 2: And certainly we want people to be able to go
Speaker 2: through that licensing process without undue barriers or difficulties. But
Speaker 2: I think the key thing from the AA's perspective is
Speaker 2: also wanting to make sure that we're actually having people
Speaker 2: learn and develop and do the practice and build up
Speaker 2: the skills and experience that we want before they start
Speaker 2: driving solo. And that's why we think that having some
Speaker 2: requirements around minimum number of hours of practice would be
Speaker 2: a really good thing to bring in if we were
Speaker 2: going to look at not having that second test.
Speaker 4: Why hasn't it happened yet?
Speaker 1: Because I don't want to give away my age. But
Speaker 1: when I got my license and had to do those
Speaker 1: hours in South I was it was a while ago.
Speaker 2: That's a hard question for me to answer. Really. I
Speaker 2: think New Zealand has developed a culture that doesn't actually
Speaker 2: take learning to drive and driving seriously enough. A lot
Speaker 2: of people see it as something that doesn't require that
Speaker 2: much time and effort. From the AA's perspective, we think
Speaker 2: we need to change as a country. This is a
Speaker 2: critical life skill and it's also something that literally puts
Speaker 2: people's lives at risk. And right now New Zealand has
Speaker 2: one of the worst road safety records in terms of
Speaker 2: developed countries around the world. We have one of the
Speaker 2: highest rate of road deaths from crashes and the highest
Speaker 2: risk group is under twenty five year olds. They die
Speaker 2: at the highest rate. So we have not been doing
Speaker 2: a great job in terms of actually training and preparing
Speaker 2: people to be safe drivers. Twenty eleven was the last
Speaker 2: time that there was a significant review of driver licensing system.
Speaker 2: That's the way government tends to work. For these things,
Speaker 2: especially significant things, they're not going to be reviewed and
Speaker 2: looked at all the time because it takes up a
Speaker 2: bunch of time and effort from the government officials and departments.
Speaker 2: You only get these opportunities come around occasionally, maybe once
Speaker 2: a decade or so. And that's in particular why right
Speaker 2: now we think, from our perspective at the AA, if
Speaker 2: we're going to look at making some significant changes, we're
Speaker 2: hoping the government is open to looking at some other
Speaker 2: additional options as well as what's been proposed, and really
Speaker 2: looking at a chance to increase and step up the
Speaker 2: standards that we are preparing and training people to start
Speaker 2: driving on our roads. We think if we do that,
Speaker 2: if we build better foundations right from the start, that
Speaker 2: is going to then flow on to a long term
Speaker 2: improvement in road safety in New Zealand.
Speaker 1: Now all of this comes as the government is moving
Speaker 1: ahead with reversing Labour's blanket speed limit reductions. What does
Speaker 1: this reversal of a reduction mean.
Speaker 2: It's really unfortunate that I think the whole issue around
Speaker 2: speed limits and speed changes has become very polarizing and
Speaker 2: very politicized, and I don't think that's actually a good
Speaker 2: thing in terms of just our approach to setting speed limits.
Speaker 2: It's a lot more complicated than a bunch of people
Speaker 2: have think it is, or some of the headlines have
Speaker 2: made it out to be. Some of the roads that
Speaker 2: had speed reductions in recent years are going to see
Speaker 2: their speed limits go back up to what they were
Speaker 2: before by the end of June. There is a lot
Speaker 2: of variation in terms of some of the highways around
Speaker 2: the country that had reductions going back up automatically. Others
Speaker 2: are currently having consultation, so it's still not certain at
Speaker 2: this stage whether they will go back or whether they
Speaker 2: will keep the lower limit. Some of the urban roads
Speaker 2: around the country going back up to the limits they
Speaker 2: had before. A number of those in Auckland of urban
Speaker 2: roads that went down to thirty kilometers an hour going
Speaker 2: back to fifty kilometer or in our limits, and different
Speaker 2: parts of the country and in different places, the picture
Speaker 2: looks a little bit different. So the best I can
Speaker 2: summarize it is that some of the speed limit changes
Speaker 2: that we saw in the last few years are going
Speaker 2: to go back to what they were before. Twenty twenty
Speaker 2: and some of them are going to stay in place,
Speaker 2: and we're still working through the details. It should be
Speaker 2: May this year that we will have a complete and
Speaker 2: final picture on which ones are going to go back
Speaker 2: up and which ones won't.
Speaker 4: Right, So, there are different categories of these roads, and
Speaker 4: I think councilors have until you're quite right may to
Speaker 4: advise the NZTA of those specified roads subject to those
Speaker 4: reversals and things.
Speaker 1: Why shouldn't we be driving slower on our roads? Though
Speaker 1: there have to be more negatives than positives to upping
Speaker 1: speed limits, I would presume.
Speaker 2: I think that it's actually a more complicated picture than that.
Speaker 2: One way of looking at it is you could say
Speaker 2: that if we had people traveling slower speed limits, then
Speaker 2: there's going to be less risk and less force in bold.
Speaker 2: So if something goes wrong, people were going to be
Speaker 2: less likely with that ending up in a crash and
Speaker 2: less likely of harm from that crash. But we also
Speaker 2: have the balance of people's ability to actually move around
Speaker 2: and for goods to move and that's one of the
Speaker 2: reasons why we have different types of roads, urban roads, highways,
Speaker 2: rural roads and things like that. And from our perspective
Speaker 2: here at the AA, we really felt that we needed
Speaker 2: to be looking at three things for speed limits to
Speaker 2: work most effectively, and that was having limits that match
Speaker 2: the environment that they're in, having limits that make sense
Speaker 2: to people, and having limits that are set using a
Speaker 2: strong evidence base, looking at the crash history on those roads,
Speaker 2: the likely impacts, those kind of things. And in recent
Speaker 2: years there was a growing sense amongst a bunch of
Speaker 2: communities out there and things like that that they are
Speaker 2: a bit of a disconnect had developed, and speed limits
Speaker 2: were being put in place by authorities that didn't match
Speaker 2: the environment or the purpose of the roads in some cases,
Speaker 2: or didn't make sense to people. We actually did some
Speaker 2: research for our research foundation a few years ago looking
Speaker 2: at a number of highways that had reduced from one
Speaker 2: hundred kilometers an hour to eighty kilometers an hour, and
Speaker 2: it was really interesting to see the varied impact on
Speaker 2: some of those stretches of highway. After the limit changed,
Speaker 2: you saw reductions and the speeds people were traveling, and
Speaker 2: they were traveling quite close to the limit. On other
Speaker 2: stretches of highway you saw very little change and actually
Speaker 2: the speeds that people were traveling, and you ended up
Speaker 2: with the majority of the traffic just traveling above the
Speaker 2: speed limits. So we think the best result here is
Speaker 2: we need to try and find that sweet spot of
Speaker 2: having speed limits that are going to make sense to
Speaker 2: people and suit the environment, because that is where then
Speaker 2: you get good compliance and you have people traveling at
Speaker 2: those limits. If you have situations where the limits just
Speaker 2: feel and seem too low to people, they can often
Speaker 2: just choose to ignore them, and then you're not actually
Speaker 2: getting their safety benefits, and you've got a situation where
Speaker 2: you just have the majority of people flouting the rules.
Speaker 1: So you just have to take in human nature as well.
Speaker 1: There are always people who are going to be flouting
Speaker 1: the law and going higher than eighty on a highway.
Speaker 2: There are going to be some, absolutely, but it's trying
Speaker 2: to find what works for the majority. So it's not
Speaker 2: thinking about the complete outlies those people who deliberately and
Speaker 2: knowingly just want to drive really fast and go way
Speaker 2: above the speed limit because they want to or they
Speaker 2: don't really care about the rules. I think it's more
Speaker 2: focused on the vast majority of generally compliant people and
Speaker 2: trying to work with what's going to make sense to them.
Speaker 2: Example of some of the survey work we've done around
Speaker 2: our AA members, we've seen really strong levels of support
Speaker 2: for variable speed limits and low speed limits around schools
Speaker 2: at those times the start and the end of school
Speaker 2: days when there's a lot of kids around, and people say, absolutely,
Speaker 2: we think lower limits at those times would be a
Speaker 2: good thing and we should do that. But then if
Speaker 2: you're talking about those lower limits being in place when
Speaker 2: it's nine o'clock at night and there's very few people
Speaker 2: or traffic around, then people have a different view and
Speaker 2: think doesn't really make sense to me at that point
Speaker 2: to still be doing thirty kilometers an hour when I'm
Speaker 2: the only car on the road. So we think that
Speaker 2: the approach that the government is taking around variable speed
Speaker 2: limits around schools and having lower limits at those key
Speaker 2: times makes a lot of sense and is going to
Speaker 2: work well with a lot of people slowing down those
Speaker 2: high risk times. Twenty twenty four looks set to have
Speaker 2: the lowest toll in more than a decade. This road
Speaker 2: safety advocate has a theory on why it.
Speaker 5: Is globally recognized that the road toll follows the economy.
Speaker 5: When you've got high unemployment, these guys don't have the
Speaker 5: money to go out and buy big Harley Davidson's and
Speaker 5: bang them into them posts. When the economy improves, everybody
Speaker 5: gets optimistic. People buy fast cars, they buy fast bikes,
Speaker 5: and the end result.
Speaker 2: Is more fatalities.
Speaker 1: Two hundred and eighty nine people lost their lives on
Speaker 1: New Zealand's roads last year, and while that's still obviously
Speaker 1: too many, it's the first time it's been under three
Speaker 1: hundred since twenty fourteen, and the lowest rate of road
Speaker 1: deaths per capita in a century, So are we doing
Speaker 1: something right when it comes to road safety to have
Speaker 1: such a milestone.
Speaker 2: We were extremely happy to see that result. It was
Speaker 2: very pleasing to see us fall back below a three
Speaker 2: hundred level, and if you look on a per population basis,
Speaker 2: it was actually the lowest rate of road deaths New
Speaker 2: Zealanders had since the nineteen twenty so basically in one
Speaker 2: hundred years, and we hope that we're going to see
Speaker 2: that continue. We've seen individual years in the park. Twenty
Speaker 2: thirteen was one where we had two hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: three deaths, the lowest ever achieved in recent times. So
Speaker 2: we've had individual years in the past and then things
Speaker 2: have jumped back up and they've just been a bit
Speaker 2: of an aberration, so we are wanting to take a
Speaker 2: little bit more time to see what happens in this
Speaker 2: year and if we can replicate that performance. We're really
Speaker 2: hoping that it is actually signifying that we've turned a
Speaker 2: bit of a corner and are seeing some improvements in
Speaker 2: our road safety record. There are some positive things that
Speaker 2: have been going on in New Zealand over recent years.
Speaker 2: It's often doesn't seem that way because most of the
Speaker 2: stories that are out there about road safety are about
Speaker 2: horrific and tragic crashes. But we have seen a lot
Speaker 2: of upgrades and improvements, particularly to some of our highest
Speaker 2: risk highways in New Zealand. Over the last sort of
Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty years, a lot of those what used
Speaker 2: to be our highest risk highways have been replaced by
Speaker 2: new modern stretches of road or they've had significant safety
Speaker 2: upgrades and they have delivered raally substantial crash reductions. We've
Speaker 2: also continue to see vehicle safety improvements just progressing and
Speaker 2: getting better over time, so vehicles are more protective and
Speaker 2: also have more technology to help prevent crashes. We've seen
Speaker 2: a bunch of changes happen around trunk and drugs driving,
Speaker 2: and the police have really worked hard to ramp back
Speaker 2: up alcohol testing because impair driving by alcohol and drugs
Speaker 2: in New Zealand is a chronically bad problem and it
Speaker 2: can get close to being forty plus percent of road
Speaker 2: deaths in a year, so it's great to see the
Speaker 2: police really cracking down on that. Again. We think that
Speaker 2: one of the big things that we haven't been doing
Speaker 2: enough on from the AA's perspective is actually around that
Speaker 2: driver behavior, driver training and trying to upscale people, and
Speaker 2: so if we can do more to actually have people
Speaker 2: have a bit more knowledge, more awareness, more skills, more
Speaker 2: experience as they're starting out, we really hope that we're
Speaker 2: only going to see our road safety records keep gets
Speaker 2: better and that means less and less people being hurt,
Speaker 2: seriously heard or killed and creatures on our rights.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Dylan.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You
Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 1: at enzdherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is
Speaker 1: produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also
Speaker 1: our sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front
Speaker 1: Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and
Speaker 1: tune in on Monday for another look behind the headlines.