1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Heather dup cl so Ba's the. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 2: Biggest of end of the day the Royal Commissions report 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 2: into the horrific and long lasting abuse of children, young 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: people and adults in state care and also faith based institutions. 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 2: Earlier we spoke with Erica Stanford, who's the minister in 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 2: charge of the government's response to the report. 7 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: The first thing we have to do is get the 8 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: redressed part underway and complete it as quickly as we can. 9 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: The Crown response so the Commission report has said that 10 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: we need to prioritize redress and that is what we 11 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: were doing. We're taking a number of cablet papers and 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: we have decisions by the end of the year. 13 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: Could cost us a lot of money. 14 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: Ah well, as a Prime Minister said today, we're not 15 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: thinking about that. First principles, what's the right thing to do, 16 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: what are the right systems and process to set up 17 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: to get there, and then we will think about that later. 18 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 2: Lawyers, Son, your Cooper has been acting on behalf of 19 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 2: abuse survivors and also g have evidence at the Royal 20 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 2: Commissioners with us right now. Hey sonya, hey god, I'm 21 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: very well. Thank you. Have you spoken to any of 22 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: the victims about today. 23 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: It only kicks wors And to be honest, I've spent 24 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 3: most of the day being briefed on the report and 25 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: doing media interviews, and of course I was actually down 26 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 3: at Parliament this afternoon for pretty much the whole of 27 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 3: the afternoon, you know, listening to the presentation in Parliament, 28 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: which was really moving, I have to say, And yeah, 29 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 3: I think watching survivors respond there with hope, and I 30 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 3: guess that's that's the feeling that I've been they are 31 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 3: hopefully left with. I guess they, you know, will wait 32 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: and see whether that actually turns out to be anything. 33 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 3: You know, there were a lot of promises made today, 34 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 3: but then there have been lots of promises made in 35 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 3: the past, and I just really hope that this time 36 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 3: we actually get something concrete. 37 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: In terms of the redress. What kind of redress are 38 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: they wanting. Are they wanting, you know, to be provided 39 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: with education, housing, the kinds of things that they missed 40 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: out on, or they wanting direct COMPO payments. 41 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 3: Well, redress to be both and that's an international obligation 42 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 3: that we have. So it needs to cover though compensation, 43 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 3: which is the money side of it, and today compensation 44 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 3: particularly from the state's been really poor. I mean, you know, 45 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 3: we're starting at kind of two thousand dollars from the 46 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 3: Ministry of Health, and then you know up to nine 47 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 3: thousand dollars, which is the top payment under the Ministry 48 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 3: of Health system unless you were in the Lake House 49 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 3: adolescent unit. And then the Ministry is Social Development, where 50 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 3: you might have spent pretty much your entire life and care. 51 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: The average payment there is only twenty thousand dollars. Ministry 52 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 3: of Educations lower than that, and again you might have 53 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 3: spent quite a long time in the Ministry of Education 54 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: residential school and suffered absolutely horrendous abuse. The churches are 55 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 3: doing a lot better, I have to say. They've actually 56 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 3: listened to the Royal Commission. They've listened to the questions 57 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: that have been put to them. They've modified on the 58 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: whole extent of the Catholics. They've modified their processes so 59 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 3: they're more traumer informed. They're actually accepting survivors accounts of 60 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: what happened to them, and they're paying what I think 61 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: is more reasonable compensation. So you know, from fifty thousand 62 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: dollars right through to two hundred thousand dollars if you 63 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: were at Dilworth for example, whereas the state is to 64 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: say you're probably lucky to get thirty thousand dollars, you know, 65 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 3: if you're really lucky, you might get fifty or sixty 66 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 3: thousand dollars. And the highest payments that we've negotiated, I mean, 67 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 3: I think the highest payment I negotiated was back in 68 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 3: two thousand and two, and that was like one hundred 69 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 3: and forty thousand dollars, but the client had to pay 70 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: quite a big chunk of that back to legal aid. 71 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 3: And you know, since then, I think the highest payments 72 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: that have negotiated have been eighty or ninety thousand, but 73 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: those have only been clients who claims have been on 74 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: a track to you know, our formal trial hearing and 75 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: where we've had lots of evidence and they've known, we've 76 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 3: had lots of witnesses who've been able to support the claims. 77 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: It doesn't say the majority get around twenty thousand if 78 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: they're lucky a little bit more than that. So state 79 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 3: redress has been and continues to be really poor. You know, 80 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: we know from actual area reports and again it's in 81 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: the Royal Commission's report that the actual loss suffered over 82 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 3: the lifetime of a survivor is something between maybe, you know, 83 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 3: four hundred thousand dollars at the lowest right through to 84 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: about nine hundred thousand dollars, and I think the actual 85 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 3: area reports say that eight or nine hundred thousand dollars 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 3: is about the actual economic loss of a survivor over 87 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: the course of their lifetime. So we've got to see 88 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 3: this really as an investment rather than a cost because 89 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 3: you know, actually there's that compensation part, but there's also 90 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 3: to provide and survivors with all the things that they 91 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 3: have actually missed out on due to the losses that 92 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: they've suffered due to their abuse. So that is their 93 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 3: loss of education, it's the loss of their money, it's 94 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 3: disconnection with FINO, it's drug and alcohol abuse, it's even 95 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: things like tattoos. So yeah, all of that is absolutely 96 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 3: vital if we're going to offer proper redress. 97 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: Sonya, I don't have a lot of time, but I 98 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: just want to ask this because I've got a lot 99 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: of texts from people as we've discussed this through the program, 100 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 2: asking what's going to happen to the perpetrators, like are 101 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: we actually going to find these people and punish them? 102 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 3: Well, look, the police have been tasked with that. I 103 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 3: think from our perspectives, our clients actually don't really trust 104 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 3: the police because they've had really negative experiences through the 105 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: criminal justice system. So asking them to complain and you know, 106 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: end up in police processes is a really big ask. 107 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: Some of them are doing it, and I mean we've 108 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 3: assisted quite a few clients to actually successfully prosecute some 109 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 3: of their pett you know, perpetrators, but but a lot 110 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 3: just you know, like it's traumatic enough without actually being 111 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 3: asked to go through a criminal process. Given as to 112 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 3: say that a lot of them are being victimized through 113 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: the criminal justice system themselves. But yeah, I think one 114 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 3: of the things that I do want to say is 115 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 3: like the report says that a lot of people have 116 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: to make formal apologies, and I'm really really pleased to 117 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 3: see that the officials who are responsible for the organizations 118 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 3: that have perpetrated abuse or haven't been properly accountable or 119 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: looked after those who are in their care are being 120 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 3: asked to step up and say sorry. And that includes 121 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 3: our solicitors general, you know, it includes all the officials 122 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 3: from the Court a gon Tamadiki and the Ministry of 123 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 3: Social Development and Education, and health, and it's about time 124 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 3: that they actually stepped up and said sorry for their 125 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 3: part and this abysmal failure on the part of the 126 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 3: state and safe based organizations. I mean it goes as 127 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: far as asking the Pope to make an apology, which 128 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: I think is again it's entirely appropriate. 129 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, get them over here. Hey, Sonya, thanks very much, 130 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: appreciate it. That's Sony Cooper, who's a lawyer who's been 131 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 2: acting on palf of abuse survivors. For more from Hither 132 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to News Talk SETB from 133 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.