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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow

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Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on Iheartradiot.

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Speaker 2: Inside the Game from every angle.

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Speaker 1: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you

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Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Elligott Smith with

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Speaker 3: me as always Liam Nape, your chief sports writer for

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Speaker 3: the New Zealand Herald and Rugby Correspondent. We are live

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Speaker 3: from Rugby Directs, Dunedin's studio for this one. Liam and

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Speaker 3: the All Blacks are on the board for twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: sixteen fifteen win over England. We're recording this on Sunday

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Speaker 3: afternoons and not even twenty four hours after the final whistle,

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Speaker 3: Still there, pab periala hory, God, Holy God, it's a

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Speaker 3: summer in the show.

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Speaker 4: But the old Max, Who's when this first test of

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Speaker 4: the year han only holding on all right? Solder Popular

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Speaker 4: was the man. They got the penalty and now the

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Speaker 4: All Blacks need just to get it into clutch. Everyone

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Speaker 4: needs to take a deep breath. Damian McKenzie taps texts

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Speaker 4: it at the touch and you We're right of All

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Speaker 4: Black rugby because with an old natured Test match time

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Speaker 4: wrestle you see at sixteen and for fifteen full time

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Speaker 4: at bull Side bart Stadium and dun Eden.

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Speaker 3: This dig right into it. Your initial reactions to the

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Speaker 3: first eighty minutes under head coach Scott.

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Speaker 5: Robertson rusty, nervous, unconvincing, I think on the whole, but

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Speaker 5: not totally unexpected given the limited preparation window, the eighteen

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Speaker 5: new managements that have come in the biggest change for

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Speaker 5: the All Blacks in twenty years. A lot of personnel

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Speaker 5: have left since the World Cup, a lot of experience,

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Speaker 5: so did expect them to be a bit rusty to

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Speaker 5: try and come together and put it all on the

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Speaker 5: park straight off the bats, But look, I think it

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Speaker 5: was an escape. The All Blacks were somewhat fortunate to

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Speaker 5: come away with victory and have a positive story to

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Speaker 5: sell to spin. It's a platform, it's a start and

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Speaker 5: England will rule this Test. This was their best chance

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Speaker 5: and it is one that got away from them.

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Speaker 3: How did it get away from them? I guess is

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Speaker 3: what we look at. They were fifteen ten up in

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Speaker 3: the first spell and second spell and it kind of

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Speaker 3: felt like the bench perhaps for England didn't quite add

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Speaker 3: the impact that maybe was necessary. I thought Alex Mitchell

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Speaker 3: had a superb game at half back for England. When

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Speaker 3: he was replaced Ben Spencer comes on, it felt like

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Speaker 3: they just lost a little bit of pace out of

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Speaker 3: the ruck. Marcus Smith I thought had the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: guessing a lot more than Finn Smith who came on,

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Speaker 3: and just a couple of those other changes apart from

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Speaker 3: Tom Curry, I thought as Per is excellent. They got

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Speaker 3: sixty minutes out of Baxter on debut as well, but

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Speaker 3: just felt like maybe that last twenty twenty five minutes

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Speaker 3: when the All Blacks went up evil and had some

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Speaker 3: of their replacements come on and make impact, England didn't

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Speaker 3: quite have the same impact from their bench.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a fair assumption I was equally impressed with

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Speaker 5: as a former halfback retired now myself.

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Speaker 6: Alex Mitchell was exceptional.

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Speaker 5: His darts from the base down the short side ball

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Speaker 5: in two hands, putting doubt in the All Blacks defensive mind.

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Speaker 5: He was a real live wire for the English at

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Speaker 5: half back. His box kicking very accurate as well. Mara

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Speaker 5: a ToJ world class, isn't he the way he competed

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Speaker 5: at line out time and at the breakdown. England's increasingly

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Speaker 5: made a mess of the All Blacks ball. I think

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Speaker 5: they got six turnovers. Four of those came from the backs,

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Speaker 5: Olie Lawrence getting too so Chandler Cunningham South was another

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Speaker 5: big presence with ball in hands. So look, England left

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Speaker 5: their mark, but I think they were fortunate to be

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Speaker 5: locked at ten or a half time. The All Blacks

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Speaker 5: should have collected more points. They were extremely dominant in

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Speaker 5: that first half. England came out of the gate in

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Speaker 5: the second and really put it on them in that

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Speaker 5: third quarter and had a lot of momentum in descendancy.

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Speaker 5: The All Blacks had to fight their way through a

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Speaker 5: lot of adversity. The game basically comes down to Marcus

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Speaker 5: Smith missing a number of kicks. If you do the math,

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Speaker 5: the game should have been a draw, and I think

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Speaker 5: that probably is a fair reflection of a scrappy contest.

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Speaker 5: Marcus Smith missed eight points, Damien McKenzie seven, including that

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Speaker 5: not controversial but a very rare timed out penalty. He

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Speaker 5: missed seven, So you do the math, that's a draw

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Speaker 5: and it was very hard to separate these teams. So

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Speaker 5: the All Blacks look, they fought their way through adversity.

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Speaker 5: They took Damian McKenzie kicked to penalties to finish and

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Speaker 5: they had to repel England after the time out penalty

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Speaker 5: to finish the match. So you could say they were

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Speaker 5: more composed and took their chances.

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Speaker 6: But there was nothing in that.

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Speaker 3: No, there wasn't, and it was a narrow tester. It

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Speaker 3: felt maybe just before halftime the All Blacks were beginning

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Speaker 3: to get the ascendancy just a fraction. They were leading

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Speaker 3: ten to seven, and then I think the momentum swung

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Speaker 3: back England's way by a pretty shoddy decision I thought

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Speaker 3: from the All Blacks to continue playing after the siro. Now,

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong necessarily with having a little bit of a crack,

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Speaker 3: but they weren't getting over the advantage line, the game line.

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Speaker 3: They're being repelled by England. At that point, someone needs

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Speaker 3: to go kick it into touch. We'll take a ten

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Speaker 3: to seven lead into half time. Didn't happen quickly enough.

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Speaker 3: England get a penalty, Marcus Smith kicks it over ten

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Speaker 3: all and psychologically they head into the sheds just a

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Speaker 3: little bit happier, probably than the All Blacks, even though

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Speaker 3: the game is on an even keel, at least on

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Speaker 3: the scoreboard. They come out of the second half Marcus

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Speaker 3: Smith is an early penalty, but they spend the first

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Speaker 3: ten to twelve minutes. It felt like anyway of the

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Speaker 3: first a second spell camped and All Black's territory. They

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Speaker 3: got rewarded with a try through Emmanuel fa Woboso, who

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Speaker 3: I thought was very very good when he got ball

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Speaker 3: in hand for England, and it felt like they'd taken

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Speaker 3: the momentum away from the All Black sides. Little things

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Speaker 3: like that that you can decide to change your arm

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Speaker 3: a little bit, but there needs to be some leadership

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Speaker 3: on the park and go let's get this into touch

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Speaker 3: and take the half time. I know, with the little

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Speaker 3: bit rattled by t J. Petinara's injury there around that point,

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Speaker 3: but the decision making I thought was better later in

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Speaker 3: the game for the All Blacks, and it certainly probably

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Speaker 3: was either side of halftime.

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Speaker 5: It's a good point, and I think the TJ. Peter

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Speaker 5: and a injury did affect them at that time. They

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Speaker 5: felt like they were really ragged, just going side to side,

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Speaker 5: not really going anywhere, and like you say, at that

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Speaker 5: point somebody needs to step up and say this isn't

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Speaker 5: worth the risk. We're inside our own half, let's kick

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Speaker 5: it out, let's regroup. Because Pedinara's distribution to that point

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Speaker 5: had been really good. I thought his clearances off the

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Speaker 5: left boot box kicks very accurate. I thought he was

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Speaker 5: you know, this's his first test for twenty months and

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Speaker 5: made a real impression when he went got injured with

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Speaker 5: the cleanout, which I don't have an issue with. I

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Speaker 5: think it was just so straightforward, cleaner. Unfortunate in the

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Speaker 5: way that Scott Barrett fell on him and twisted his knee.

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Speaker 5: That definitely affected his ability to lean over his passing

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Speaker 5: leg and that contributed to the All Blacks becoming ragged.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, it was a bit of a turning point

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Speaker 5: England going in a halftime level when they didn't really

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Speaker 5: deserve to be.

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Speaker 6: They've been on the back foot.

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Speaker 5: The All Black scrum, which I think we should touch on,

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Speaker 5: was extremely dominant, probably the best part of their game,

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Speaker 5: and from an officiating perspective, some really perplexing rulings around

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Speaker 5: the All Blacks not getting the rewards they deserved there.

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Speaker 6: What was your read on that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it felt like they had found England out at

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Speaker 3: scrum time. In all honesty, first scrum the game, England

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Speaker 3: gets awarded a penalty. Now for me, I think you

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Speaker 3: as a referee need to have a little bit more

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Speaker 3: feeling in the game and go, let's just let the

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Speaker 3: two packs settle rather than because making a penalty in

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Speaker 3: the first game, whichever way goes, you're kind of setting

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Speaker 3: a little bit of precedent. But in subsequent scrums, the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks had the ascendancy, didn't always get the rewards.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think from Nick imusher Kelly, who by and

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Speaker 3: large ike you thought had a pretty decent game, but

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Speaker 3: they sort of didn't get the rewards there. But it

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Speaker 3: was a very very good part of the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: game used it as a bit of a weapon. Just

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Speaker 3: probably the platform has laid to an extent. We just

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Speaker 3: didn't see enough from the backs to really dig into

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Speaker 3: what the Scott Robinson game plan is going to be

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Speaker 3: when backs get ball in hand. We saw obviously Severi

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Speaker 3: score an early try Ardie Savilla scorer as well, both

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Speaker 3: coming down the right wing flank. But I guess if

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Speaker 3: we look at it from a whole eighty minutes, did

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Speaker 3: you see Scott Robinson game plan beginning to emerge at

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Speaker 3: all and is it too early to perhaps expect something

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 5: I think there were the elements there around the scrum.

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Speaker 5: I think they would have liked to have used them

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Speaker 5: more more. That will be a big part of this

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Speaker 5: All Blacks game. I think they will be appointed at times.

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Speaker 5: With their defense. It wasn't as aggressive enough if you

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Speaker 5: look at the way England defended with their line speed.

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Speaker 5: Now you don't have to bring that umbrella style, but

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Speaker 5: just getting up off the line in England's faces. I

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Speaker 5: felt like the All Blacks were a bit passive and

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Speaker 5: they allowed England to come to them, particularly in that

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Speaker 5: second quarter, gave them meters.

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Speaker 6: That's right attacking perspective wise.

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Speaker 5: You could see the way they were trying to get

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Speaker 5: around the English defense with one or two pods a

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Speaker 5: wee bit wider and I was impressed on the whole

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Speaker 5: by Stephen Peterfetz's contribution at the back. There was the

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Speaker 5: biggest talking point selection wise last week him over Boden Barrett.

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Speaker 5: He jinked out of ben Earle's tackle to set up

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Speaker 5: Artie Severe. But look, it is early and they would

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Speaker 5: have thrown a lot at the players. Stylistically, there wasn't

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Speaker 5: too much to pick out of it other than the

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Speaker 5: pillars that you would want. If we break it down

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Speaker 5: even further and go into what you'd expect out of

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Speaker 5: the All Blacks, what you take away from let's say

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Speaker 5: the forward pack.

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Speaker 6: We've talked about the scrum, the.

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Speaker 5: Line out struggled, lost three of their own throws from

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Speaker 5: a ball carrying perspective, looking at the breakdown the defense,

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Speaker 5: did the All Blacks pack provide enough punch?

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Speaker 3: I don't think probably as much as they would have

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Speaker 3: liked necessarily, and that's because of England's umbrella defense as well.

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Speaker 3: I think in terms of the carry, you know, some

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Speaker 3: of those big men like to groot. We're getting sort

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Speaker 3: of half over the advantage line and being pushedback. Lomax

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Speaker 3: as well. I thought Semipenny Fena had a quietish night

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Speaker 3: to an extent before he went off with his hia,

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Speaker 3: which he passed. By the way, Don Papoli, you thought

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Speaker 3: I had a good game. Artie Savia was excellent. You

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Speaker 3: wouldn't known that he's been in Japan and away from

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Speaker 3: New Zealand rugby for quite some time. And I thought

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Speaker 3: Patrick twp so Patrick twe Blood and Scot Bear. I

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Speaker 3: don't think eyone had a bad game to say, but

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Speaker 3: it just felt like in terms of the carry, just

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Speaker 3: a little bit more punch from some of those forwards

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Speaker 3: and the All Blacks could have the advantage line a

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Speaker 3: little bit more and set themselves up for a bit

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Speaker 3: more success. The lineout is the worrying one as well.

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Speaker 3: Now Marotoji had at least a steal too, depending on

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Speaker 3: how you read it, and Scott Robertson pointed that out

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Speaker 3: when we convened so with him from me decision earlier

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Speaker 3: in the day. One of those was balking as well

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Speaker 3: that it can be fixed from a suffer a more.

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Speaker 3: But the line out throwing has been a worry of

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Speaker 3: a Mullward's game. So I felt that the lineout was

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Speaker 3: a little creaky first test of the year and you'd

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Speaker 3: want that to be fixed as you had to eaven

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Speaker 3: Park next week.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's a massive area.

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Speaker 5: The All Blacks pride themselves on their set piece and

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Speaker 5: there was always going to be a big spotlight on

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Speaker 5: the line out. Posts Broder Metallic and Sam Whitelocke. I

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Speaker 5: thought Scott Barrett was really good around the field there

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Speaker 5: was one big counter ruck that he drove into. He

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Speaker 5: was busy, but the lineout needs to be better because

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Speaker 5: it's such a focal point of an attacking platform. That's

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Speaker 5: where you want to strike or from all over the

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Speaker 5: park and England did well to disrupt that and they

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Speaker 5: will be looking at that again, so Jason Ryan his

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Speaker 5: area of expertise and Scott Robertson to a degree, they

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Speaker 5: will be drilling down into that.

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Speaker 6: What about the back line.

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Speaker 5: Let's pick up on Damien McKenzie's game in particular, big

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Speaker 5: test for him. I think it was only his fifth

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Speaker 5: or sixth start and forty eight odd tests in the

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Speaker 5: ten Jersey. We had Richie Wonga sitting in the stands

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Speaker 5: with Richie's bus tour. They looked like they had a

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Speaker 5: hell of a time him and Shannon Frazelle with the punters,

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Speaker 5: which is great to see. But we can also pick

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Speaker 5: up on Richie's future but later, But how did what's

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Speaker 5: your assessment of how Damian McKenzie went pretty good in

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Speaker 5: the first half, but when that platform wasn't there and

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Speaker 5: the rush got to him a little bit, some of

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Speaker 5: the option taking accuracy maybe dipped got a.

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Speaker 3: Little bit rushed at times it felt Damian McKenzie and

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Speaker 3: rushed into his options, and that was a credit to

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Speaker 3: the way that England were able to put the pressure

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Speaker 3: on him. Felt like a couple of times he he scrambled,

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously the penalty goalkicker or timed out aside,

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Speaker 3: you know, kicking those two crucial penalties, getting the All

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Speaker 3: Blacks first behind by two then putting them in front.

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Speaker 3: That's the kind of steal you want from your goalkicker.

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Speaker 3: So I can't fault him there too much necessarily. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you keep those conversions in the first bow you take

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Speaker 3: a fourteen seventeen leading to halftime game slightly different as well.

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Speaker 3: So he got the kicks when it matted, I say

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Speaker 3: out loud, but maybe he also didn't. But he was

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Speaker 3: an integral part and why the All Blacks won that Test.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time could have even asserted his dominance.

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Speaker 3: I thought a bit more on that Test match. And

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Speaker 3: he's got to find ways when he's not getting time

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Speaker 3: in space to counter that and figure out ways to

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Speaker 3: pull apart defenses when you know the platform isn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: being rolled out for him.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and he can't do it alone.

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Speaker 5: He did set up severy recent the crossfield kick to

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Speaker 5: get around the rush, but is going to be a

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Speaker 5: massive focal point for the All Blacks. How do they

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Speaker 5: escape Felix Jones's rush defense and the pressure. How do

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Speaker 5: they create more time and space? Is it through kicking

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Speaker 5: him behind and you know Chip kicks Chip crossfield kicks

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Speaker 5: to the wings. It been more direct trying to go

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Speaker 5: through the middle of the English pack, around the fringes

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Speaker 5: or switch moves around the ruck. So I think Mackenzie,

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Speaker 5: for me, had a very good first half and then

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Speaker 5: got a wee bit rattled. He went back to buzzing

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Speaker 5: around and struggled to assert himself in the same way,

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Speaker 5: and I think his performance would be viewed very differently.

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Speaker 5: Headingland snatched at the death because that timed out penalty

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Speaker 5: would have been extremely costly, and to his credit, he

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Speaker 5: fronted up post match and said, look, yeah, if England

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Speaker 5: had won that game, it would have been a disaster.

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Speaker 5: So that timed out penalty could have been a massive

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Speaker 5: talking point.

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Speaker 3: I do want to throw a question about you seven,

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Speaker 3: Peter Feder in just a moment, but let's talk about

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Speaker 3: that timed out penalty because a bit of confusion post

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Speaker 3: match as to how it all play, I don't know

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Speaker 3: how it played out on SkyTV and what comms viewers

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Speaker 3: at home we're getting. Certainly in the stadium you don't know.

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Speaker 3: There is no shot clock, and that's perhaps an issue

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Speaker 3: that they need to fix and make permanent around grounds

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Speaker 3: around the world. I know some do, but certainly not

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Speaker 3: a standard that World rugby in force. But in my

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Speaker 3: years hearing during match commentary the referee said twenty seconds.

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Speaker 3: He was quite clear and then gave another warning to McKenzie.

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Speaker 3: Now where the McKenzie can hear it is another matter entirely.

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Speaker 3: The rest might up We hear it throughout commentary effects,

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Speaker 3: but you've just got to be a bit better and

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Speaker 3: cognizant of that. Yes, late in the game you want

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Speaker 3: to use up as much time as possible, but these

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Speaker 3: are the rules now. The shot clock exists and you

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Speaker 3: can't use up any more time than you're entitled to.

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Speaker 5: No, I don't have a problem with it, and I

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Speaker 5: think you've got to be self aware that the spotlight

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Speaker 5: is a lot more on you in the seventy eighth

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Speaker 5: minute than it is in the fifteenth, because naturally you're

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Speaker 5: more inclined to want to waste time when you're up

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Speaker 5: by one point, potentially going to go up by four,

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Speaker 5: then you're at the start of the match. And Keewis

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Speaker 5: can't get on their high horse about this because it

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Speaker 5: was only a couple of years ago in Melbourne that

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Speaker 5: the All Blacks escape because of this not exact scenario,

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Speaker 5: but it was from a penalty where Bernard Foley was

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Speaker 5: paying for time wasting and there was certainly a few

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Speaker 5: ossies on on Twitter out there reminding everyone of that.

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Speaker 5: So look, I think mackenzie was aware of it. He

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Speaker 5: was warned in his previous kick that he was pushing

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Speaker 5: the envelope and again to his credit, he acknowledged postmatch

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Speaker 5: it was his own fault.

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Speaker 6: This is where the game's going as well.

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Speaker 5: Scott Robertson said this, it's about speeding it up, not

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Speaker 5: just in this regard, but when you look at scrums

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Speaker 5: and lineouts, and the All Blacks have had frustrations with

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Speaker 5: opposition teams going down and feigning injuries or trying to

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Speaker 5: slow the pace of the game.

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Speaker 6: So they need to embrace this and own and they are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought a big call from Nickarmischa Kelly to

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Speaker 3: make in front of a home crowd, you know, late

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Speaker 3: in the game, but he made the right one, similar

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Speaker 3: to Machi Ray now in Melbourne a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 3: So big call Stephen Petterfetz to fullback was the surprise selection.

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Speaker 3: We certainly didn't pick it when we convened last week

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Speaker 3: on Rugby Direct that he was going to get the

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Speaker 3: fifteen jersey. He did and played what fifty four minutes

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Speaker 3: I think it was in Saturday night's Test match. How

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Speaker 3: would you assess Stephen Peter Feeder's biggest Test start to

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Speaker 3: this point.

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Speaker 5: I thought he grabbed his chance by and large. There

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Speaker 5: was obviously the one movement where he's set up the try.

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Speaker 5: But what I like about his combination with mackenzie is

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Speaker 5: he's far more natural in that second playmaker role to

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Speaker 5: allow McKenzie to take the reins and to try and

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Speaker 5: be the man outside him to play second fiddle. He

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Speaker 5: is very comfortable in that role where I feel like

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Speaker 5: when it's Boden Barrett, it's almost the reverse the Barrett

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Speaker 5: as a senior guy. Almost you know, it has taken

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Speaker 5: him a number of years to feel comfortable playing second

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Speaker 5: fiddle to a degree from fullback. So I thought Stephen

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Speaker 5: Peterfizer played very well. Bowden off the bench, I thought

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Speaker 5: he played well as well. He made an impact when

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Speaker 5: he came on from the backfield, couple of kicks in

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Speaker 5: the behind the defense.

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Speaker 6: So I think that is a very live discussion for

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Speaker 6: the second Test.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, wouldn't surprise me, and we might get into some

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Speaker 3: of the changes a wee bit later on, but maybe

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Speaker 3: they flipped them around for this test. Any other points

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Speaker 3: that you want to add about the All Blacks first

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Speaker 3: Test of the.

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Speaker 6: Year, Well, that's one question. Who's your man of the match?

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Speaker 3: Probably Addie Save. I thought he was immense, just gets

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Speaker 3: over the game line every time he carries big on defense.

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Speaker 3: You know, obviously scored that the second try for the

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Speaker 3: All Blacks, but he's the kind of player and I

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Speaker 3: thought that he stood up, you know, in a team

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Speaker 3: that needed that kind of performance last night. I don't

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Speaker 3: think anyone had a bad game per se, but I

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Speaker 3: thought Adie Savy was just a little bit better than

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Speaker 3: the others.

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Speaker 5: One of yourself, Yeah, Artie was good. I'll go someone

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Speaker 5: different just for arguments sakes. Severy Reese outstanding a guy,

381
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Speaker 5: first Test in two years, and it wasn't just what

382
00:19:17,613 --> 00:19:19,453
Speaker 5: he did with the ball. Both him and Mark Tillia

383
00:19:19,493 --> 00:19:22,093
Speaker 5: are superbot going looking for work, coming off their wings,

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Speaker 5: getting involved, great feet, quite deceptively strong. But on defense

385
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Speaker 5: chasing kicks, I think it was Furbank. He absolutely barreled,

386
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Speaker 5: and the crowd in front of him on the far

387
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Speaker 5: side to us and directly in front of you on

388
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Speaker 5: commentary went ballistic. So I think he enjoyed, relished being

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Speaker 5: back out there and really took his chance.

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Speaker 6: And it's very contestable, wasn't it.

391
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Speaker 5: Because the All Blacks have stacks of outside backs, but

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Speaker 5: Talia and Reese really stood out for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought they were both exceptional and Reese perhaps

394
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Speaker 3: or one of those preaps unfortunate not to result in

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Speaker 3: a penalty as well for the All Black. So I

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Speaker 3: guess signs of improvement what they need to improve on

397
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Speaker 3: for the next years. We've covered a few of them,

398
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Speaker 3: but you know, I think line out and getting some

399
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Speaker 3: clarity around some of those scrumbles are the wrong with

400
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Speaker 3: the referee interpret it incorrectly or weren't seeing the pictures

401
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Speaker 3: that the All Blacks thought that I was putting there

402
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Speaker 3: seem like obvious things that they'll look at this week

403
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Speaker 3: in the training.

404
00:20:23,773 --> 00:20:26,573
Speaker 5: I'll probably drew down to four things. They'll be the lineout,

405
00:20:26,853 --> 00:20:34,133
Speaker 5: the breakdown, the better decision making on attack, and just

406
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Speaker 5: being a bit more aggressive I think on defense.

407
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Speaker 6: So yeah, I think who's going to improve more is

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Speaker 6: a question for you next week, England or the All Blacks.

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Speaker 3: I think the All Blacks, which I don't mean to

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Speaker 3: some disrespectful to England, but I think the All Blacks

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Speaker 3: can go and improve more than he had ten days together.

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Speaker 3: I think England will improve. I think it's natural that

413
00:20:57,773 --> 00:21:00,853
Speaker 3: look like a team that is improving with every game

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Speaker 3: in world rugby. I think there are a team really

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Speaker 3: on the rise, and you look to twenty twenty seven,

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Speaker 3: a lot of young players in that Max and that

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Speaker 3: England team. I think they're really on the rise. But

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Speaker 3: if you look at the next six seven days for

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Speaker 3: the next test at Edon Park, I think the All

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Speaker 3: Blacks can prove more than England that time frame.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I don't know how much more England can

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Speaker 5: throw at the All Blacks in terms of surprise packages.

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Speaker 5: And I also don't know how much more the All

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Speaker 5: Blacks will throw at their players because it is a

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Speaker 5: small window. It's probably more about refining and an element

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Speaker 5: of continuity and cohesion more than it is throwing more

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Speaker 5: moves and set players. But the more time this team

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Speaker 5: has together, the hope, certainly the expectation is that Razor

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Speaker 5: will improve them. So this for me, that's why this

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Speaker 5: was England's big shot and they blew it.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a break on Rugby directs Powered by Excess

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Speaker 3: Solutions elevating you and your business to a higher level.

433
00:22:00,053 --> 00:22:04,133
Speaker 2: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.

434
00:22:07,333 --> 00:22:12,773
Speaker 4: Every tribe had sixty seconds tackle get up again at.

435
00:22:15,013 --> 00:22:18,413
Speaker 2: Him afore time. It's Rugby Direct, Ladies, talk me.

436
00:22:18,893 --> 00:22:21,973
Speaker 3: You're back with Rugby Direct power by Excess Solutions from

437
00:22:22,013 --> 00:22:25,253
Speaker 3: our Daneden studio. Time now for our final four for

438
00:22:25,413 --> 00:22:27,693
Speaker 3: rugby topics that we dissected. Mate, well, there's plenty of

439
00:22:27,733 --> 00:22:31,133
Speaker 3: other matches on the go. We had Australia Wales, South

440
00:22:31,173 --> 00:22:34,973
Speaker 3: Africa versus Ireland in the Republic, Argentina and France that

441
00:22:35,133 --> 00:22:39,133
Speaker 3: the Maldi All Blacks and the Japan fifteen playing as

442
00:22:39,213 --> 00:22:41,773
Speaker 3: well might be missing one or the other thing. Canada

443
00:22:41,813 --> 00:22:43,133
Speaker 3: played Scotland a.

444
00:22:43,173 --> 00:22:45,533
Speaker 6: Couple of wins for I think some are in fests.

445
00:22:45,733 --> 00:22:49,813
Speaker 3: Yes, indeed so plenty of rugby as the window opens up.

446
00:22:51,373 --> 00:22:54,733
Speaker 3: Let's start with Australia Wales potentially what stood out for

447
00:22:54,773 --> 00:22:56,013
Speaker 3: you in that one limb.

448
00:22:57,013 --> 00:23:00,053
Speaker 5: Two pretty poor teams I think on the whole, two

449
00:23:00,133 --> 00:23:04,493
Speaker 5: teams at low ebbs, but from an Australian perspective, a

450
00:23:04,653 --> 00:23:07,733
Speaker 5: very important victory for Joe Schmitt to start that tenure.

451
00:23:08,173 --> 00:23:12,493
Speaker 5: And I saw a comparison last November. The Wallabies lost

452
00:23:12,573 --> 00:23:16,373
Speaker 5: to Wales by thirty old points World Cup at the

453
00:23:16,413 --> 00:23:19,133
Speaker 5: World Cup, and they're here they are beaten them by

454
00:23:19,453 --> 00:23:21,813
Speaker 5: by ten a matter of months later, So that's a

455
00:23:21,853 --> 00:23:25,173
Speaker 5: massive swing in the context of a very short space

456
00:23:25,213 --> 00:23:31,013
Speaker 5: of time. Joe Schmidt didn't pick any overseas players, picked

457
00:23:31,013 --> 00:23:33,293
Speaker 5: a lot of workers in Australia.

458
00:23:33,333 --> 00:23:33,973
Speaker 6: I think you.

459
00:23:35,693 --> 00:23:36,453
Speaker 3: It was very.

460
00:23:37,813 --> 00:23:43,413
Speaker 5: Script for Joe bore retention, low error rates, late try,

461
00:23:43,573 --> 00:23:46,653
Speaker 5: individual brilliance from Tom Wright helped them get over the line.

462
00:23:47,333 --> 00:23:51,053
Speaker 5: So it was in the context of where Australian rugby

463
00:23:51,213 --> 00:23:55,253
Speaker 5: is at that was just so needed to start that

464
00:23:55,413 --> 00:23:56,133
Speaker 5: rebuild on that.

465
00:23:56,253 --> 00:23:56,773
Speaker 6: Sort of note.

466
00:23:57,333 --> 00:24:02,053
Speaker 5: And look, gats is under massive pressure, isn't he Increasingly

467
00:24:02,493 --> 00:24:05,293
Speaker 5: it looks like he's yesterday's man.

468
00:24:05,653 --> 00:24:10,053
Speaker 3: How many losses? Isn't that I think it's eight for Wales. Yeah, look,

469
00:24:10,813 --> 00:24:13,333
Speaker 3: I don't know that they've got the cattle necessarily Wales

470
00:24:13,493 --> 00:24:15,373
Speaker 3: at this point in time, but I'm not sure, as

471
00:24:15,373 --> 00:24:17,813
Speaker 3: you said, Gatland is the right bloke to be leading

472
00:24:17,893 --> 00:24:23,053
Speaker 3: this team, especially what this team needs now in terms

473
00:24:23,093 --> 00:24:26,533
Speaker 3: of building towards twenty twenty seven or maybe even beyond that.

474
00:24:26,853 --> 00:24:28,893
Speaker 3: You know, few young players in there, but it feels

475
00:24:28,973 --> 00:24:34,373
Speaker 3: like they don't have a generational player or two like

476
00:24:34,453 --> 00:24:38,693
Speaker 3: an alan Wynn Jones or some of those great front

477
00:24:38,773 --> 00:24:42,573
Speaker 3: rows that they've had through the years, great tens, fifteens

478
00:24:42,573 --> 00:24:46,973
Speaker 3: they've had in recent times. Yeah, all those Sam Wilburton,

479
00:24:47,093 --> 00:24:49,773
Speaker 3: you know, it feels like they're missing. They've got players,

480
00:24:49,813 --> 00:24:52,253
Speaker 3: you know, Aaron wayIn Wrights and impresses me when he

481
00:24:53,173 --> 00:24:56,493
Speaker 3: he looks good, but fuel and far between, and that's

482
00:24:56,533 --> 00:24:59,533
Speaker 3: the big issue for Wales among others in their system.

483
00:24:59,573 --> 00:25:02,253
Speaker 3: At the moment, I thought the Wallabies did exactly what

484
00:25:02,293 --> 00:25:05,013
Speaker 3: they needed to do. Tom Wright's got a wonderful long

485
00:25:05,133 --> 00:25:09,613
Speaker 3: range try and you keep perform like that the Eddie

486
00:25:09,653 --> 00:25:13,093
Speaker 3: Jones era. We'll get further into the review mirror and

487
00:25:14,653 --> 00:25:18,453
Speaker 3: maybe positive times here again for the Wallabies.

488
00:25:18,213 --> 00:25:21,933
Speaker 5: It's just about baby steps. Isn't it rebuilding confidence? You

489
00:25:22,053 --> 00:25:25,173
Speaker 5: think about the damage just that Eddie Jones did to

490
00:25:26,413 --> 00:25:31,893
Speaker 5: future generations, Carter Gordon leaving and you know he picked

491
00:25:31,933 --> 00:25:33,853
Speaker 5: a squad for last World Cup with the next World

492
00:25:33,893 --> 00:25:37,093
Speaker 5: Cup of mines, so we were told, and so Joe's

493
00:25:37,133 --> 00:25:39,253
Speaker 5: had to come in and start from scratch, start from

494
00:25:39,293 --> 00:25:42,933
Speaker 5: a low ebb. It's about building, rebuilding confidence and momentum,

495
00:25:43,533 --> 00:25:46,053
Speaker 5: and that's a great start for them.

496
00:25:46,613 --> 00:25:49,533
Speaker 3: It is. Indeed, South Africa island. This was in the

497
00:25:49,613 --> 00:25:51,773
Speaker 3: early hours of the morning in New Zealand, but goodwin

498
00:25:51,893 --> 00:25:56,493
Speaker 3: for South Africa beating Ireland first up. It was a

499
00:25:56,573 --> 00:25:59,133
Speaker 3: weird old game to an extent, sort of was in

500
00:25:59,253 --> 00:26:02,213
Speaker 3: fits and starts for a period. South Africa leading twenty

501
00:26:02,293 --> 00:26:04,813
Speaker 3: points to eight with about five six minutes to go,

502
00:26:05,053 --> 00:26:08,493
Speaker 3: and then all hell breaks loose essentially and find it

503
00:26:08,573 --> 00:26:12,733
Speaker 3: was twenty seven to twenty and Ireland had a position

504
00:26:13,213 --> 00:26:15,253
Speaker 3: right at the end and maybe could have mounted something

505
00:26:15,333 --> 00:26:19,253
Speaker 3: to at least draw the game. But I think South

506
00:26:19,253 --> 00:26:22,173
Speaker 3: Africa would be relatively happy with what they were able

507
00:26:22,253 --> 00:26:26,733
Speaker 3: to do in that performance. A couple of crucial erarors

508
00:26:26,813 --> 00:26:31,493
Speaker 3: from Ireland and in Rass's men continue on their mirror

509
00:26:31,533 --> 00:26:32,453
Speaker 3: way they do.

510
00:26:32,613 --> 00:26:35,053
Speaker 5: Indeed, this is an important win for South Africa too,

511
00:26:35,093 --> 00:26:38,213
Speaker 5: because they hadn't beaten Ireland for a number of years

512
00:26:39,013 --> 00:26:43,693
Speaker 5: and they'd hyped it up significantly with the promotional material

513
00:26:43,773 --> 00:26:47,933
Speaker 5: that Ruzzi and their official accounts have been put out,

514
00:26:47,933 --> 00:26:51,093
Speaker 5: and I love that by all means, bring the hype,

515
00:26:51,133 --> 00:26:54,253
Speaker 5: bring the noise, bring the eyeballs and attention to rugby.

516
00:26:54,693 --> 00:26:56,613
Speaker 5: These are two best teams in the world going at it.

517
00:26:57,693 --> 00:27:00,253
Speaker 5: South Africa is an incredibly tough place to tour, loft

518
00:27:00,253 --> 00:27:04,173
Speaker 5: of sad altitude, and Ireland competed well to a degree,

519
00:27:04,213 --> 00:27:05,813
Speaker 5: but it never felt like they were going to win

520
00:27:05,853 --> 00:27:08,213
Speaker 5: that game. They were always behind the eight ball and

521
00:27:08,573 --> 00:27:11,293
Speaker 5: South Africa stuck to their blueprint in terms of rolling

522
00:27:11,413 --> 00:27:14,533
Speaker 5: six forwards off the bench, all at the same time

523
00:27:15,133 --> 00:27:20,453
Speaker 5: monstering the Irish scrum, which was a real definitive moment

524
00:27:20,893 --> 00:27:23,853
Speaker 5: in that game. And I think it will be hard

525
00:27:23,973 --> 00:27:27,213
Speaker 5: for Ireland now to not be swept over there. But

526
00:27:27,893 --> 00:27:31,453
Speaker 5: in a very intriguing series and two quality teams, I

527
00:27:31,533 --> 00:27:34,413
Speaker 5: think if you sat back and watched all three of

528
00:27:34,453 --> 00:27:37,973
Speaker 5: those games this weekend, there's a definitive difference between the

529
00:27:38,013 --> 00:27:42,053
Speaker 5: All Blacks England Island, South Africa and Wales and Australia.

530
00:27:42,493 --> 00:27:44,093
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's probably fair. The other one I

531
00:27:44,133 --> 00:27:46,053
Speaker 3: want to touch on before we do it, I'll throw

532
00:27:46,093 --> 00:27:48,813
Speaker 3: to you feed any other thoughts. But Argentina France. Now,

533
00:27:48,853 --> 00:27:53,893
Speaker 3: France left a whole lot of players behind in France.

534
00:27:53,653 --> 00:27:56,893
Speaker 6: Funny enough, no top fourteen finalists.

535
00:27:56,493 --> 00:27:57,773
Speaker 1: No, and.

536
00:27:59,773 --> 00:28:02,413
Speaker 3: Perhaps the expectation was that Argentina, with most of their

537
00:28:02,493 --> 00:28:06,253
Speaker 3: key players there would be able to beat this French team,

538
00:28:06,333 --> 00:28:09,293
Speaker 3: but probably speaks to the depth of France have got.

539
00:28:09,453 --> 00:28:12,413
Speaker 3: There was a stand around how many debutantes I think

540
00:28:12,453 --> 00:28:15,293
Speaker 3: twenty in the squad of forty odd there were captain

541
00:28:15,333 --> 00:28:17,733
Speaker 3: by a bloke that didn't make the World Cup last year.

542
00:28:19,773 --> 00:28:22,813
Speaker 3: But this generation of French dragging now, whether results in

543
00:28:22,853 --> 00:28:25,773
Speaker 3: a World Cup title or not, very very rich in talent,

544
00:28:25,893 --> 00:28:28,333
Speaker 3: and we saw that with them comfortably beating Argentina.

545
00:28:29,293 --> 00:28:33,253
Speaker 5: I think it's fair to say most informed rugby people

546
00:28:33,293 --> 00:28:36,573
Speaker 5: would say that the domestic scene in France is the

547
00:28:37,333 --> 00:28:41,493
Speaker 5: richest in the world. That's a well supported, well funded,

548
00:28:43,413 --> 00:28:46,413
Speaker 5: well contested competition and like you say, it's their strength

549
00:28:46,493 --> 00:28:48,533
Speaker 5: and depth that they've got. They've been a powerhouse in

550
00:28:48,693 --> 00:28:52,653
Speaker 5: the under twenties in recent years. New Zealand fantastic win

551
00:28:53,373 --> 00:28:56,173
Speaker 5: last week to get up over the French side, but

552
00:28:57,453 --> 00:28:59,493
Speaker 5: like you say, so many debutantes in that team to

553
00:28:59,533 --> 00:29:04,653
Speaker 5: go to Argentina, who are not a powerhouse of the

554
00:29:04,773 --> 00:29:08,053
Speaker 5: rugby world currently, but that's a great one for them.

555
00:29:08,373 --> 00:29:12,533
Speaker 5: And I think France and South Africa could name two

556
00:29:13,293 --> 00:29:17,893
Speaker 5: international teams and be very competitive that I would say

557
00:29:17,933 --> 00:29:21,173
Speaker 5: they have the best depth in the rugby world right now.

558
00:29:21,573 --> 00:29:25,253
Speaker 3: Any other thoughts from those games that we perhaps not

559
00:29:25,293 --> 00:29:27,373
Speaker 3: necessary watch but a quarter a glimpse of over the

560
00:29:27,413 --> 00:29:28,053
Speaker 3: course of the weekend.

561
00:29:28,293 --> 00:29:29,933
Speaker 5: It's hard to take it all and isn't it, But

562
00:29:30,413 --> 00:29:32,773
Speaker 5: I think on the whole win for the Southern hemisphere,

563
00:29:34,493 --> 00:29:39,533
Speaker 5: France the only nation to win, but Fiji and Samoa

564
00:29:40,013 --> 00:29:43,173
Speaker 5: getting up and my prediction of US of a sweep

565
00:29:43,213 --> 00:29:45,013
Speaker 5: in those other games and other nations.

566
00:29:45,053 --> 00:29:49,133
Speaker 3: Still on indeed topic two in the final four on

567
00:29:49,253 --> 00:29:52,493
Speaker 3: Rugby Direct, any changes likely for that All Blacks team

568
00:29:53,453 --> 00:29:55,293
Speaker 3: heading back to Auckland for the second test.

569
00:29:56,253 --> 00:29:58,693
Speaker 5: Well, as you mentioned, we're recording this on Sunday and

570
00:29:58,773 --> 00:30:02,053
Speaker 5: we will learn on Monday. TJ Pearra's fate, but I

571
00:30:02,053 --> 00:30:05,613
Speaker 5: would be very surprised if he is fit to take

572
00:30:05,653 --> 00:30:08,333
Speaker 5: the field at Eden Park and the second Test against England.

573
00:30:09,853 --> 00:30:12,413
Speaker 5: It looks like a bit of mcl We saw him

574
00:30:12,453 --> 00:30:16,613
Speaker 5: wandering around the lobby today. It didn't look horrific long term,

575
00:30:16,733 --> 00:30:21,533
Speaker 5: but maybe maybe a medium short to medium term knee ligaments.

576
00:30:22,453 --> 00:30:25,573
Speaker 5: And if that scenario plays out, Finlay Christie is likely

577
00:30:25,653 --> 00:30:26,333
Speaker 5: to go on to start.

578
00:30:27,573 --> 00:30:28,493
Speaker 6: That's a concern for me.

579
00:30:29,413 --> 00:30:33,493
Speaker 5: I thought Finlay was off the pace in the second

580
00:30:33,533 --> 00:30:36,213
Speaker 5: half against England, didn't necessarily have the platform with some

581
00:30:36,293 --> 00:30:39,933
Speaker 5: of his kicking accuracy. He's quite undecisive at the base.

582
00:30:40,533 --> 00:30:43,253
Speaker 5: But I can see the All Blacks favoring that experience.

583
00:30:44,173 --> 00:30:47,213
Speaker 5: That would scenario would bring Cortez Ratima onto the bench

584
00:30:47,253 --> 00:30:49,453
Speaker 5: for his debut, and that would really excite me. His

585
00:30:49,653 --> 00:30:54,573
Speaker 5: dynamic prospect, running game, quite physical point of difference for

586
00:30:54,653 --> 00:30:55,133
Speaker 5: the All Blacks.

587
00:30:55,173 --> 00:30:55,373
Speaker 2: There.

588
00:30:56,173 --> 00:30:57,693
Speaker 5: Before we get to the rest of the changes in

589
00:30:57,733 --> 00:31:01,053
Speaker 5: the squad, let's say that happens. Piranara's out for the

590
00:31:01,093 --> 00:31:05,613
Speaker 5: rest of July. Who's the All Blacks wall call on

591
00:31:05,653 --> 00:31:07,173
Speaker 5: in a half back replacement? Who are they going to

592
00:31:07,253 --> 00:31:11,053
Speaker 5: call on? That's a fascinating question, isn't it. As I

593
00:31:11,133 --> 00:31:13,613
Speaker 5: buy myself some time while I ponder, I mean I've

594
00:31:14,373 --> 00:31:16,813
Speaker 5: ponder what I'm going to say here. Look, I think

595
00:31:16,853 --> 00:31:20,733
Speaker 5: Noah Hotham is the man to call in now, similarly

596
00:31:22,093 --> 00:31:23,733
Speaker 5: to perhaps someone like a George Bell.

597
00:31:23,893 --> 00:31:27,813
Speaker 3: It's an eye to the future selection. You know, Ken

598
00:31:27,893 --> 00:31:30,413
Speaker 3: Royguard is going to be back. We hope around the

599
00:31:30,573 --> 00:31:33,253
Speaker 3: end of year tour mark. I'm hearing positive signs from

600
00:31:33,293 --> 00:31:36,053
Speaker 3: people that know him quite well that he's on track

601
00:31:36,093 --> 00:31:39,213
Speaker 3: for that point. If not, maybe let's hope Counties, maybe

602
00:31:39,613 --> 00:31:42,253
Speaker 3: towards the back end of the NPC. You know, you

603
00:31:42,333 --> 00:31:44,813
Speaker 3: got TJ Hopefully, let's hope that injury is not too bad.

604
00:31:44,853 --> 00:31:48,333
Speaker 3: So you're looking rather than a misaffects it, You're looking

605
00:31:48,453 --> 00:31:50,493
Speaker 3: towards the future, but something that could also is also

606
00:31:50,613 --> 00:31:53,053
Speaker 3: capable of debuting in the next week. While I think

607
00:31:53,133 --> 00:31:55,653
Speaker 3: Noah Hotham has that role, he impressed me during the

608
00:31:55,813 --> 00:31:57,973
Speaker 3: latter stages of Super Rugby. Has he got more starts

609
00:31:58,053 --> 00:32:00,773
Speaker 3: under his belt, dynamic from the base of the right

610
00:32:00,853 --> 00:32:03,853
Speaker 3: good kicking game. It looks like a really, really promising

611
00:32:03,893 --> 00:32:06,653
Speaker 3: player for the future. His time is probably a wee

612
00:32:06,733 --> 00:32:09,533
Speaker 3: bit further down the track. But I think if you're

613
00:32:09,533 --> 00:32:11,973
Speaker 3: looking for a replacement a third half back in the squad,

614
00:32:12,293 --> 00:32:14,893
Speaker 3: then he's your guy. I look, I'll throw the question

615
00:32:15,013 --> 00:32:19,053
Speaker 3: back at you before I entertain some of the other options,

616
00:32:19,093 --> 00:32:20,133
Speaker 3: but who would you go with?

617
00:32:21,413 --> 00:32:21,813
Speaker 6: Personally?

618
00:32:21,853 --> 00:32:24,253
Speaker 5: I would go with Nah Hotham as well. I'm a

619
00:32:24,373 --> 00:32:28,973
Speaker 5: huge fan of his running game and his vision, just

620
00:32:29,053 --> 00:32:31,933
Speaker 5: as the style he brings. I think in the wheeldgame,

621
00:32:31,973 --> 00:32:33,693
Speaker 5: if you take a step back, your half back needs

622
00:32:33,733 --> 00:32:36,093
Speaker 5: to be a threat around the fringes, and I don't

623
00:32:36,093 --> 00:32:39,973
Speaker 5: see Finlay Christie as that guy. He's good support player,

624
00:32:40,253 --> 00:32:42,893
Speaker 5: but he doesn't really bring a running presence to hold

625
00:32:42,933 --> 00:32:45,293
Speaker 5: those ruck defenders. And if you don't have that, you're

626
00:32:45,333 --> 00:32:49,173
Speaker 5: really missing a trick. So I think Hotham does bring that.

627
00:32:50,253 --> 00:32:52,413
Speaker 5: Where I think the All Blacks might go is if

628
00:32:52,453 --> 00:32:54,173
Speaker 5: you look out there in terms of a lightful like

629
00:32:54,293 --> 00:32:57,813
Speaker 5: replacement for per Andara falal Fucka Tava is probably the

630
00:32:57,893 --> 00:33:01,853
Speaker 5: closest because he's a big presence, he's physical, he brings

631
00:33:01,933 --> 00:33:05,493
Speaker 5: that running presence. He didn't have the greatest season with

632
00:33:05,573 --> 00:33:09,813
Speaker 5: the Highlanders and probably has faded from where he was

633
00:33:09,853 --> 00:33:12,493
Speaker 5: a couple of years ago, but he has test experience,

634
00:33:13,413 --> 00:33:15,773
Speaker 5: and I think there is an element of risk of

635
00:33:15,893 --> 00:33:19,813
Speaker 5: having two rookie halfbacks in your three pronged nine mix.

636
00:33:20,253 --> 00:33:23,933
Speaker 3: Yeah, although Fucka tavas not really an experienced half back himself.

637
00:33:23,933 --> 00:33:26,853
Speaker 3: We've played two tests in twenty twenty two. Was discarded

638
00:33:26,893 --> 00:33:29,293
Speaker 3: after that injured, also scarted.

639
00:33:29,893 --> 00:33:32,333
Speaker 5: He's played a lot more super rugby than I hope has.

640
00:33:33,533 --> 00:33:35,693
Speaker 5: But it is fascinating to see where they go. Yeah,

641
00:33:35,733 --> 00:33:39,453
Speaker 5: you had one left field suggestion that almost got got

642
00:33:39,573 --> 00:33:40,733
Speaker 5: my backhand with said.

643
00:33:40,573 --> 00:33:43,493
Speaker 3: Your cheese whole cheese rolls, chucking on your cheese rolls

644
00:33:43,493 --> 00:33:49,453
Speaker 3: at lunch time, Mitch Drummond don't like it a player

645
00:33:49,533 --> 00:33:55,493
Speaker 3: that has had one All Blacks cap and as a

646
00:33:55,573 --> 00:33:58,573
Speaker 3: player that would probably be most likeful. Like in terms

647
00:33:58,613 --> 00:34:02,133
Speaker 3: of Finlay Christie, You've already got Finlay Christie in the squad.

648
00:34:02,213 --> 00:34:05,333
Speaker 3: But I think you see what Scott Robertson did at

649
00:34:05,333 --> 00:34:07,893
Speaker 3: the Crusaders. His half back wasn't the star of the

650
00:34:07,933 --> 00:34:11,373
Speaker 3: show ccesserely in his era at the Crusaders, you had Drummond,

651
00:34:11,453 --> 00:34:13,813
Speaker 3: you had Britain Hall with auduistict to both of those,

652
00:34:14,613 --> 00:34:17,493
Speaker 3: they were only tangentially in the All Blacks conversation for

653
00:34:17,533 --> 00:34:19,213
Speaker 3: a long period of time. Wasn't what the All Blacks

654
00:34:19,253 --> 00:34:21,453
Speaker 3: were looking for, but it was exactly what Scott Robertson

655
00:34:22,053 --> 00:34:24,013
Speaker 3: was looking for in his time in charge and allowed

656
00:34:24,653 --> 00:34:28,333
Speaker 3: the franchise quarterback and Richie and Wanger to basically pull

657
00:34:28,413 --> 00:34:31,093
Speaker 3: the strings of the team. Whether that's what he wants

658
00:34:31,093 --> 00:34:33,053
Speaker 3: at an All Blacks level is another matter entirely. But

659
00:34:33,333 --> 00:34:34,893
Speaker 3: if you're looking for a mister fix it for a

660
00:34:35,253 --> 00:34:37,453
Speaker 3: let's say, let's hope best case scenario TJP in an

661
00:34:37,453 --> 00:34:40,133
Speaker 3: hour's out for say a month. I'm not saying he's

662
00:34:40,133 --> 00:34:43,253
Speaker 3: going to play, you know, more than one of those

663
00:34:43,333 --> 00:34:46,613
Speaker 3: tests necessarily, But mittch Drummond could come in and do

664
00:34:46,733 --> 00:34:51,053
Speaker 3: a job. He could where there's not many options running

665
00:34:51,053 --> 00:34:51,333
Speaker 3: out to it.

666
00:34:51,453 --> 00:34:55,333
Speaker 6: No, look, I think it's a possibility for me.

667
00:34:55,453 --> 00:35:00,173
Speaker 5: That's incredibly conservative, safe stopgap measure, and time has passed

668
00:35:00,213 --> 00:35:04,493
Speaker 5: him by Mitch Strummonds. Noah Hotham was starting over him

669
00:35:04,533 --> 00:35:06,453
Speaker 5: for the Crusaders and should have been since the start

670
00:35:06,493 --> 00:35:10,053
Speaker 5: of the year. But look, when you've got a former

671
00:35:10,093 --> 00:35:15,013
Speaker 5: Crusaders coach in charge and two Crusaders assistants in their

672
00:35:15,093 --> 00:35:16,533
Speaker 5: mixt what about be.

673
00:35:16,573 --> 00:35:19,213
Speaker 3: Ruled out Willie Hines, he's completed as international stand down

674
00:35:19,253 --> 00:35:21,013
Speaker 3: from England. How special would it be for him to

675
00:35:21,733 --> 00:35:26,573
Speaker 3: come and play again? I did have a when you

676
00:35:26,653 --> 00:35:28,293
Speaker 3: were just running your stories earlier.

677
00:35:28,373 --> 00:35:30,253
Speaker 6: And Hyland this country you got a back for our

678
00:35:30,373 --> 00:35:33,133
Speaker 6: day and I didn't I.

679
00:35:33,173 --> 00:35:36,253
Speaker 3: Think any other changes we touched a bit earlier. Possibly

680
00:35:36,293 --> 00:35:38,733
Speaker 3: I could see Pea Fetter and Boden Barratt being switched

681
00:35:38,773 --> 00:35:41,973
Speaker 3: for Eden Park Para Feder dropping to the bench. Hard

682
00:35:42,053 --> 00:35:44,933
Speaker 3: to see too many other changes too. That makes I

683
00:35:45,013 --> 00:35:47,893
Speaker 3: mean you could perhaps look at even blackout or off

684
00:35:47,933 --> 00:35:50,253
Speaker 3: the bench for Luke Jacobson. Don't know that Luke Jabson

685
00:35:50,293 --> 00:35:52,573
Speaker 3: did much wrong last night, but it could just be

686
00:35:52,653 --> 00:35:54,493
Speaker 3: a switch that they look to give some of them

687
00:35:54,493 --> 00:35:55,933
Speaker 3: a bit of game time in these first couple of

688
00:35:55,973 --> 00:35:56,613
Speaker 3: tests this season.

689
00:35:57,093 --> 00:35:58,933
Speaker 5: I think, broadly speaking, there's not going to be a

690
00:35:58,973 --> 00:36:01,413
Speaker 5: lot of changes, and Scott Robertson alluded to that today

691
00:36:01,453 --> 00:36:04,853
Speaker 5: when he talked about continuity and cohesion, that the All

692
00:36:04,893 --> 00:36:07,573
Speaker 5: Black SEV comes together short space of time, throwing a

693
00:36:07,613 --> 00:36:10,213
Speaker 5: lot at each other, and they'll want to build on

694
00:36:10,293 --> 00:36:13,293
Speaker 5: that platform without throwing too many changes into the mix.

695
00:36:13,693 --> 00:36:16,853
Speaker 5: And they've got a lot to fix. So I think

696
00:36:17,053 --> 00:36:21,613
Speaker 5: the live discussions are fullback. Whether Boden comes in that's

697
00:36:21,733 --> 00:36:29,013
Speaker 5: interesting given the explanation given for Peter Fetter was that

698
00:36:29,213 --> 00:36:31,573
Speaker 5: he had played more than Barrett Boden had had one

699
00:36:31,653 --> 00:36:34,253
Speaker 5: game at club level for Coastal in the past five weeks,

700
00:36:34,813 --> 00:36:37,333
Speaker 5: so there would be rationale there, but it would be

701
00:36:37,373 --> 00:36:39,973
Speaker 5: an extremely harsh call given the way Peter Fetter played

702
00:36:40,533 --> 00:36:43,813
Speaker 5: and blindside is a live discussion. Like you, I didn't

703
00:36:43,853 --> 00:36:47,693
Speaker 5: think some opinion necessarily imposed himself in the same physical

704
00:36:47,773 --> 00:36:49,613
Speaker 5: way that we saw him. You know, he was the

705
00:36:49,693 --> 00:36:52,293
Speaker 5: chiefs hit man, he was the enforcer. We didn't see that,

706
00:36:52,413 --> 00:36:56,013
Speaker 5: and that's the difference between super rugby and test level.

707
00:36:56,773 --> 00:37:00,853
Speaker 5: So I think ethan blackheader is if he's fit, I

708
00:37:00,893 --> 00:37:02,533
Speaker 5: would like to see him coming to the mix, whether

709
00:37:02,613 --> 00:37:05,653
Speaker 5: that's starting or off the bench. It's hard to see

710
00:37:05,693 --> 00:37:09,133
Speaker 5: too many other changes. Is that Damion McKenzie will retain

711
00:37:09,693 --> 00:37:12,933
Speaker 5: the berth at ten. You don't change the wings. I

712
00:37:12,973 --> 00:37:15,973
Speaker 5: don't think you changed the midfield, the front row, the locks.

713
00:37:16,573 --> 00:37:19,733
Speaker 5: So it'll be more about refining, being more accurate with

714
00:37:19,813 --> 00:37:20,453
Speaker 5: the execution.

715
00:37:20,973 --> 00:37:23,893
Speaker 6: They're making major positional tweaks.

716
00:37:24,093 --> 00:37:28,133
Speaker 3: Agreed Topic three in the final four slightly rhetorical, but

717
00:37:28,253 --> 00:37:30,053
Speaker 3: what point is there in a shot clock if it's

718
00:37:30,053 --> 00:37:31,493
Speaker 3: not on the big screen, if.

719
00:37:31,413 --> 00:37:35,813
Speaker 5: There's none And this is as much about your audience

720
00:37:35,973 --> 00:37:39,973
Speaker 5: as anything else. It's about the crowd and you're paying punters.

721
00:37:41,413 --> 00:37:45,373
Speaker 5: What the Dunedin Force Life bar did well was put

722
00:37:45,573 --> 00:37:49,933
Speaker 5: a line across the screen with the refereeing decisions keep

723
00:37:49,973 --> 00:37:50,733
Speaker 5: people informed.

724
00:37:51,213 --> 00:37:52,973
Speaker 6: And not only did Damien McKenzie.

725
00:37:53,733 --> 00:37:56,253
Speaker 5: You know he's required to count in his head to

726
00:37:56,373 --> 00:38:00,053
Speaker 5: be aware of how much time he's using. Just a

727
00:38:00,133 --> 00:38:03,453
Speaker 5: weird explanation here as well. Six because I didn't know

728
00:38:03,533 --> 00:38:06,373
Speaker 5: this how it works. Sixty seconds for a penalty kick.

729
00:38:06,653 --> 00:38:08,853
Speaker 5: That's from the time that the referee blow his whistle

730
00:38:08,933 --> 00:38:10,813
Speaker 5: for the penalty. So you've got to get your tea on,

731
00:38:11,613 --> 00:38:13,293
Speaker 5: you have to get the ball, you have to lie.

732
00:38:13,293 --> 00:38:14,813
Speaker 3: When you signal that you want to take the shot of.

733
00:38:14,813 --> 00:38:16,893
Speaker 5: Go yes, sorry, that's right. So you have to rush

734
00:38:16,973 --> 00:38:19,253
Speaker 5: that tea on, get it set up and knock it over.

735
00:38:19,573 --> 00:38:23,093
Speaker 5: It's not a lot of time, but you're right. How

736
00:38:23,173 --> 00:38:24,853
Speaker 5: hard would it be to put a little shot clock

737
00:38:24,973 --> 00:38:28,453
Speaker 5: on the big screen. And for those pain punters at

738
00:38:28,533 --> 00:38:31,613
Speaker 5: home watching every kick, I think it adds a bit

739
00:38:31,653 --> 00:38:34,973
Speaker 5: of jeopardy to it as well. It just seems so simple,

740
00:38:35,093 --> 00:38:36,533
Speaker 5: such a common sense thing.

741
00:38:36,653 --> 00:38:39,653
Speaker 3: There are some places around the world and I can't

742
00:38:39,653 --> 00:38:41,053
Speaker 3: think of the top of it that do have that

743
00:38:41,173 --> 00:38:43,653
Speaker 3: on the that have implemented that should be mandated by

744
00:38:43,693 --> 00:38:47,133
Speaker 3: World Rugby. Hopefully look at Eden Parks. Scott Robertson said

745
00:38:47,133 --> 00:38:48,453
Speaker 3: they leave it to Mark Robinson to get on the

746
00:38:48,453 --> 00:38:50,133
Speaker 3: blod and Nick shaught it. Maybe they can make it

747
00:38:50,173 --> 00:38:50,733
Speaker 3: happen this week.

748
00:38:50,893 --> 00:38:52,573
Speaker 5: The only thing I would say about that is the

749
00:38:52,653 --> 00:38:55,773
Speaker 5: referee as a sole adjudicator of time, right, So if

750
00:38:55,853 --> 00:38:58,013
Speaker 5: the shot clock is deemed to be out and the

751
00:38:58,053 --> 00:39:01,693
Speaker 5: referee doesn't blow it or there's a discrepancy there, then

752
00:39:01,813 --> 00:39:04,373
Speaker 5: you put a lot of scrutiny on the referee when

753
00:39:04,773 --> 00:39:08,693
Speaker 5: he might have judicated it differently. So maybe that's part

754
00:39:08,813 --> 00:39:12,053
Speaker 5: consideration to it, but it's good punt. I think ultimately

755
00:39:12,133 --> 00:39:14,293
Speaker 5: you need to be keeping your audiences informed.

756
00:39:14,813 --> 00:39:20,133
Speaker 3: Topic number four throwing around a bit on x formerly

757
00:39:20,253 --> 00:39:24,253
Speaker 3: Twitter today suggestion that maybe the new head coach of

758
00:39:24,333 --> 00:39:26,813
Speaker 3: the All Black, Scott Robertson, is getting an easy ride

759
00:39:26,893 --> 00:39:29,173
Speaker 3: on the basis of that one point when in the

760
00:39:29,213 --> 00:39:32,293
Speaker 3: first Test in England and against England and maybe comparing

761
00:39:32,333 --> 00:39:36,893
Speaker 3: it to the previous era under Ian Foster from the media.

762
00:39:38,933 --> 00:39:41,453
Speaker 3: I guess your thoughts on that, Liam and whether Scott

763
00:39:41,573 --> 00:39:42,773
Speaker 3: Robinson's getting an easy ride.

764
00:39:43,933 --> 00:39:46,093
Speaker 5: Look, I don't think he's getting an easy ride, but

765
00:39:47,173 --> 00:39:52,813
Speaker 5: there's no denying that the perception, the backdrop, the public

766
00:39:53,093 --> 00:39:56,053
Speaker 5: good will will favor towards Scott Robinson is incredibly different

767
00:39:56,253 --> 00:39:58,293
Speaker 5: than it is for Foster, and it is funny when

768
00:39:58,293 --> 00:40:03,253
Speaker 5: you compare their respective starts. Foster drew an eighty eight

769
00:40:03,333 --> 00:40:06,573
Speaker 5: minute Test match against the Wallabies and Wellington in October

770
00:40:06,613 --> 00:40:08,333
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty, so we had to wait three months

771
00:40:09,053 --> 00:40:12,493
Speaker 5: in the COVID year, and you know that sparked a

772
00:40:12,533 --> 00:40:15,933
Speaker 5: lot of concern. Scott Robertson could have easily drawn his

773
00:40:16,053 --> 00:40:20,653
Speaker 5: first tests and emerges with the one point one everyone saying, look,

774
00:40:20,733 --> 00:40:24,333
Speaker 5: give him time. He's had a limited preparation window. So

775
00:40:24,933 --> 00:40:29,173
Speaker 5: I think there's validity to the different perceptions. But I

776
00:40:29,293 --> 00:40:33,853
Speaker 5: think there's still many people within the media and public

777
00:40:33,933 --> 00:40:36,733
Speaker 5: that would be sitting back unconvinced with the All Blacks performance,

778
00:40:37,093 --> 00:40:42,573
Speaker 5: asking questions, being critical, expecting improvements next week. So there

779
00:40:42,653 --> 00:40:45,893
Speaker 5: is validity in the different perceptions. But I don't think

780
00:40:45,893 --> 00:40:46,893
Speaker 5: he's getting an easy road.

781
00:40:47,173 --> 00:40:50,533
Speaker 3: Mine. So that is they won. It's a test match.

782
00:40:50,573 --> 00:40:53,733
Speaker 3: They won, Yes, not as pretty as perhaps we would

783
00:40:53,733 --> 00:40:56,013
Speaker 3: have liked, but they won. The Test match and winning

784
00:40:56,573 --> 00:40:58,213
Speaker 3: here was virtually everything.

785
00:40:58,533 --> 00:41:00,813
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a great point, right.

786
00:41:00,853 --> 00:41:03,413
Speaker 3: A couple other points of business before we wrap up.

787
00:41:03,453 --> 00:41:06,373
Speaker 3: You mentioned Richie wong early on in the show bit

788
00:41:06,453 --> 00:41:10,013
Speaker 3: of media he did around the traps last week with

789
00:41:10,093 --> 00:41:12,693
Speaker 3: our good friend Paul Cully and also the New Zealand

790
00:41:12,733 --> 00:41:18,693
Speaker 3: Herald as well, suggesting that now whether talks are in

791
00:41:18,773 --> 00:41:22,453
Speaker 3: motion or not, but certainly there's an openness from Richie

792
00:41:22,493 --> 00:41:25,453
Speaker 3: Moonger suggesting that he has unfinished business in New Zealand

793
00:41:25,533 --> 00:41:28,333
Speaker 3: and wants at some point to return to New Zealand.

794
00:41:28,613 --> 00:41:31,413
Speaker 6: What was your take on this, look, I don't think

795
00:41:31,453 --> 00:41:32,973
Speaker 6: it's a surprise.

796
00:41:33,973 --> 00:41:36,133
Speaker 5: You know, we had Chris Lendrummond a number of months

797
00:41:36,173 --> 00:41:40,413
Speaker 5: ago and he signaled that those talks were happening. To

798
00:41:40,493 --> 00:41:42,493
Speaker 5: put it bluntly, I think I would put my house

799
00:41:42,573 --> 00:41:45,973
Speaker 5: on the fact that Richie Muonger will come home after

800
00:41:46,053 --> 00:41:49,493
Speaker 5: his second season in Japan. So we're talking July next year,

801
00:41:49,493 --> 00:41:53,933
Speaker 5: which would be a year earlier than expected. And like

802
00:41:54,053 --> 00:41:57,373
Speaker 5: you say in Paul's piece, he certainly referenced the fact

803
00:41:57,413 --> 00:42:01,973
Speaker 5: that it was hard watching the Crusaders, that's seeing the

804
00:42:02,013 --> 00:42:05,333
Speaker 5: All Blacks first Team of the Year be named. There's

805
00:42:05,373 --> 00:42:07,613
Speaker 5: a longing to be there. This is a guy at

806
00:42:07,653 --> 00:42:10,333
Speaker 5: the peak of his power. He needs to be playing

807
00:42:10,373 --> 00:42:14,813
Speaker 5: test rugby. It's a crime that we don't get to

808
00:42:14,813 --> 00:42:17,613
Speaker 5: see him. He's sitting in the stands on Saturday night.

809
00:42:17,733 --> 00:42:19,373
Speaker 6: How hard would that be? From ye, he had a

810
00:42:19,413 --> 00:42:20,973
Speaker 6: great time on the bus, but that's not where he

811
00:42:21,093 --> 00:42:21,733
Speaker 6: really wants to be.

812
00:42:22,173 --> 00:42:25,093
Speaker 3: We can have great times on the bus, but you know,

813
00:42:25,253 --> 00:42:26,533
Speaker 3: this is what he's paid to b He's in the

814
00:42:26,573 --> 00:42:30,213
Speaker 3: prime of his athletic career, should be playing for the

815
00:42:30,253 --> 00:42:31,773
Speaker 3: All Blacks, and that's one they let it get away.

816
00:42:31,813 --> 00:42:32,493
Speaker 3: He's on rugby.

817
00:42:33,133 --> 00:42:37,933
Speaker 5: Yeah, and from a he's a competitor and don't discount

818
00:42:37,933 --> 00:42:40,173
Speaker 5: the Scott Robertson fact. We heard from Seva Reese last

819
00:42:40,173 --> 00:42:43,093
Speaker 5: week that he basically walked away from an overseas deal

820
00:42:43,493 --> 00:42:45,213
Speaker 5: because Racy said to.

821
00:42:45,213 --> 00:42:47,213
Speaker 6: Him, Hey, remember I got you to the Crusaders, mate,

822
00:42:47,693 --> 00:42:48,133
Speaker 6: you owe me.

823
00:42:49,733 --> 00:42:53,293
Speaker 5: And he's a raiser, is an extremely popular figure, particularly

824
00:42:53,333 --> 00:42:58,853
Speaker 5: with those Crusaders guys. Raised his relationship with Richie Wong

825
00:42:59,573 --> 00:43:03,213
Speaker 5: as well documented. So Richie will want to come back

826
00:43:03,373 --> 00:43:04,973
Speaker 5: and be a part of an All Black team that

827
00:43:05,133 --> 00:43:09,093
Speaker 5: he is leading, and I feel like he will be

828
00:43:09,213 --> 00:43:11,653
Speaker 5: back in July and that would give him the best

829
00:43:11,693 --> 00:43:13,773
Speaker 5: part of what's that two years to lead into a

830
00:43:13,813 --> 00:43:17,653
Speaker 5: World Cup. But it does create a very interesting dynamic

831
00:43:17,733 --> 00:43:21,093
Speaker 5: around the All Blacks number ten, Jersey and mcdamion, McKenzie

832
00:43:21,173 --> 00:43:26,133
Speaker 5: and Bowden, Barrett's role and others Stephen Petterfetter, that dynamic

833
00:43:26,213 --> 00:43:30,053
Speaker 5: is gonna be fascinating to see how Scott Robertson manages

834
00:43:30,133 --> 00:43:32,733
Speaker 5: those personalities and those selections.

835
00:43:33,093 --> 00:43:36,333
Speaker 3: It is. Indeed a few super Rugby transfers announced last

836
00:43:36,373 --> 00:43:39,333
Speaker 3: week as well as flagged a couple of weeks ago

837
00:43:39,493 --> 00:43:44,613
Speaker 3: on the broadcast Swine Tangatao leaving the Blues to go

838
00:43:44,813 --> 00:43:47,333
Speaker 3: to the Highlanders. A couple of good pickups for them.

839
00:43:48,373 --> 00:43:50,893
Speaker 6: Zach Gellah has seen the light and going to the Canes.

840
00:43:51,253 --> 00:43:52,413
Speaker 6: Smart man, Smart.

841
00:43:52,213 --> 00:43:55,293
Speaker 3: Man, you're behind Jamie Hannah future all Black and a

842
00:43:55,453 --> 00:43:59,293
Speaker 3: good move for Zack Gallagher, I'm sure, joining the Hurricanes.

843
00:44:00,013 --> 00:44:03,213
Speaker 3: Hurricanes also losing just In Sankster to Japan. Josh Moreby

844
00:44:03,253 --> 00:44:07,173
Speaker 3: well flagged that he's moving to France, and another one,

845
00:44:07,213 --> 00:44:09,533
Speaker 3: Selessie Rayasi going to France as well.

846
00:44:10,213 --> 00:44:13,733
Speaker 5: Yeah, and young talent moving on, isn't it. I guess

847
00:44:14,253 --> 00:44:17,053
Speaker 5: it makes sense to a degree those guys aren't in

848
00:44:17,093 --> 00:44:19,933
Speaker 5: the all blacks frame and you cash and while you can.

849
00:44:20,613 --> 00:44:22,973
Speaker 3: But I'll see one of the sort of what ifs.

850
00:44:23,013 --> 00:44:26,293
Speaker 3: Maybe I think perhaps a few defensive frailties and his

851
00:44:26,453 --> 00:44:29,573
Speaker 3: reads on the game. But when he's got ball in hand,

852
00:44:29,613 --> 00:44:32,293
Speaker 3: he's explosive. He's fun to watch, really really good player,

853
00:44:32,813 --> 00:44:36,533
Speaker 3: strong at sevens, good for Auckland and the NPC, and

854
00:44:36,613 --> 00:44:38,733
Speaker 3: when he's taken those opportunities for the Hurricanes, I think

855
00:44:38,773 --> 00:44:41,493
Speaker 3: has been impressive as well, but just probably just a

856
00:44:41,613 --> 00:44:44,093
Speaker 3: tear blow where the All Blacks and with the log

857
00:44:44,173 --> 00:44:46,333
Speaker 3: gem of outside backs probably sees the writing on the

858
00:44:46,373 --> 00:44:46,933
Speaker 3: wall a little bit.

859
00:44:47,213 --> 00:44:49,413
Speaker 6: Extremely gifted athlete, isn't he ball in hand?

860
00:44:49,453 --> 00:44:52,133
Speaker 5: I think he scored a hat trick for the Hurricanes

861
00:44:52,613 --> 00:44:56,253
Speaker 5: and one match this year, But you're right, defensively and

862
00:44:56,413 --> 00:45:00,493
Speaker 5: just consistent struggled. So yeah, he's decided to cash in

863
00:45:00,693 --> 00:45:03,653
Speaker 5: and you can't begadge those guys. What about the best

864
00:45:03,733 --> 00:45:07,933
Speaker 5: news of the week, curiously of Rob van Royan out

865
00:45:07,973 --> 00:45:11,853
Speaker 5: of krash search that the great Man, the Messiah Rob

866
00:45:11,893 --> 00:45:13,853
Speaker 5: Penny has resigned with the Crusaders.

867
00:45:15,133 --> 00:45:19,413
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, not officially confirmed, so there is time to

868
00:45:19,493 --> 00:45:24,733
Speaker 3: backtrack on this. Still look, I suppose he's got a

869
00:45:24,733 --> 00:45:27,453
Speaker 3: contract for two years, doesn't he, Rob Penny, and he

870
00:45:27,573 --> 00:45:28,453
Speaker 3: was never going anywhere?

871
00:45:28,573 --> 00:45:28,773
Speaker 2: Was here?

872
00:45:29,773 --> 00:45:31,173
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. It would have been a

873
00:45:31,213 --> 00:45:34,213
Speaker 3: bold move and an a precedented moved from New Zealand,

874
00:45:34,773 --> 00:45:37,093
Speaker 3: from a New Zealand rugby franchise to make that sort

875
00:45:37,133 --> 00:45:37,653
Speaker 3: of decision.

876
00:45:39,613 --> 00:45:41,693
Speaker 6: I can hear the enthusiasm in your voice out there.

877
00:45:41,973 --> 00:45:45,293
Speaker 3: We talked about Warren Gatlan being Yesterday's man and I

878
00:45:45,413 --> 00:45:47,853
Speaker 3: think that falls under Rob Penny as well. In all honesty,

879
00:45:48,053 --> 00:45:50,653
Speaker 3: and sometimes you don't know that the sport has passed

880
00:45:50,693 --> 00:45:53,533
Speaker 3: you by until you're at the top eleven realize it has.

881
00:45:54,093 --> 00:45:57,333
Speaker 3: Warren Gatlan was an by and larger failure at the Chiefs.

882
00:45:58,293 --> 00:46:01,293
Speaker 3: Warren ball didn't work in Super Rugby. Doesn't look like

883
00:46:01,333 --> 00:46:04,213
Speaker 3: it's working up in Wales now orbit with a different

884
00:46:04,253 --> 00:46:06,573
Speaker 3: crop of talent to the one he had perhaps under

885
00:46:06,573 --> 00:46:09,133
Speaker 3: a previous regime. But I think Rob pennies the same,

886
00:46:10,253 --> 00:46:13,533
Speaker 3: just not the kind of coach that the Crusaders want. Sorry,

887
00:46:13,533 --> 00:46:16,293
Speaker 3: the Crusaders players knees. When you've gone from perhaps the

888
00:46:16,333 --> 00:46:18,733
Speaker 3: new school of coaching to Scott Robertson, now you're going

889
00:46:18,773 --> 00:46:20,733
Speaker 3: back to dar I say it from what I understand

890
00:46:20,773 --> 00:46:24,013
Speaker 3: the old school and look, from all accounts, Rob Penny

891
00:46:24,413 --> 00:46:26,813
Speaker 3: great bloke, lovely man, but I just do not think

892
00:46:26,933 --> 00:46:30,413
Speaker 3: he's the man that crusaders need at the top of

893
00:46:30,573 --> 00:46:32,573
Speaker 3: the tree at the moment. And that's why I would

894
00:46:32,573 --> 00:46:34,893
Speaker 3: pull the trigger if it's Tumbody Allison from twenty twenty six,

895
00:46:35,453 --> 00:46:37,053
Speaker 3: put him in from twenty twenty five if that's your

896
00:46:37,133 --> 00:46:42,093
Speaker 3: game plan, or look elsewhere. Yeah, but look, good reporting

897
00:46:42,093 --> 00:46:44,813
Speaker 3: from Rob van Royin on that front. And I'm sure

898
00:46:45,013 --> 00:46:47,213
Speaker 3: we'll see if that review is released.

899
00:46:46,893 --> 00:46:49,693
Speaker 5: And all yeah, I think the review will be released.

900
00:46:49,773 --> 00:46:52,173
Speaker 5: But whether they make a song and dance about Rob

901
00:46:52,213 --> 00:46:54,733
Speaker 5: Penny being retained, probably.

902
00:46:54,453 --> 00:46:56,133
Speaker 3: Probably not want to make a song and dance about it.

903
00:46:56,253 --> 00:46:58,613
Speaker 3: Probably going to go well of the socials. I suspect

904
00:46:58,973 --> 00:47:02,493
Speaker 3: probably free size Pity not going anywhere. It's not going

905
00:47:02,573 --> 00:47:03,093
Speaker 3: to get likes.

906
00:47:03,133 --> 00:47:04,573
Speaker 6: There's some good memes to be had there.

907
00:47:04,613 --> 00:47:08,253
Speaker 5: Look, what I would say is it's not a news

908
00:47:08,373 --> 00:47:12,733
Speaker 5: yelling Rugby's culture to fire coaches generally speaking the All Blacks.

909
00:47:12,853 --> 00:47:15,053
Speaker 5: That was the exception to the rule in mid twenty

910
00:47:15,093 --> 00:47:18,853
Speaker 5: two when they were forced basically to change assistant coaches.

911
00:47:18,973 --> 00:47:22,293
Speaker 5: So from my mind, I never expected the Crusaders to

912
00:47:22,373 --> 00:47:26,373
Speaker 5: get rid of Penny. I don't believe that's the right decision,

913
00:47:26,413 --> 00:47:28,933
Speaker 5: but it is quite a cultural thing where you look

914
00:47:29,053 --> 00:47:33,453
Speaker 5: abroad and it is more common. But sorry, there are

915
00:47:33,533 --> 00:47:36,893
Speaker 5: big questions about Penny's tenure and some of the selections

916
00:47:37,773 --> 00:47:41,173
Speaker 5: the continued like a discipline that we saw last year,

917
00:47:41,733 --> 00:47:44,933
Speaker 5: that their inability to win tight games. There was a

918
00:47:44,973 --> 00:47:47,573
Speaker 5: litany of things that you could point to, and I

919
00:47:47,693 --> 00:47:50,013
Speaker 5: agree with you, he's not the right fit, not the

920
00:47:50,133 --> 00:47:51,053
Speaker 5: right man for that job.

921
00:47:51,413 --> 00:47:55,093
Speaker 3: There's always a lot of talk about high performance standards

922
00:47:55,133 --> 00:47:57,693
Speaker 3: and what's best for high performance culture, and if it's

923
00:47:57,693 --> 00:48:00,253
Speaker 3: getting rid of the coach, surely that is part of

924
00:48:01,133 --> 00:48:03,293
Speaker 3: the top tier of high performance standards. It may not

925
00:48:03,413 --> 00:48:06,373
Speaker 3: be the quote unquote efficult thing to do, but if

926
00:48:06,413 --> 00:48:09,173
Speaker 3: you were preaching a high performance and environment and looking

927
00:48:09,213 --> 00:48:12,333
Speaker 3: for the best type performance you can possibly get, then

928
00:48:12,413 --> 00:48:16,973
Speaker 3: that needs to transfer to being as brutal with coaches

929
00:48:17,013 --> 00:48:18,093
Speaker 3: as you would be with players.

930
00:48:19,413 --> 00:48:20,133
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree.

931
00:48:20,493 --> 00:48:24,213
Speaker 5: The other thing I would say about the context of

932
00:48:24,253 --> 00:48:27,453
Speaker 5: the Crusaders obviously lost a lot of personnel next year

933
00:48:27,493 --> 00:48:29,893
Speaker 5: if they can keep will Jordan Ethan Blackhead, A Scott

934
00:48:29,973 --> 00:48:32,773
Speaker 5: Barrett Cody Taylor. These guys didn't play a lot of

935
00:48:32,813 --> 00:48:35,173
Speaker 5: rugby for the Cruisaders. This year they will make a

936
00:48:35,213 --> 00:48:39,413
Speaker 5: big difference. But with Penny in charge, I still don't

937
00:48:39,413 --> 00:48:44,013
Speaker 5: see them as a top four team, and that's.

938
00:48:42,773 --> 00:48:43,453
Speaker 6: Where they should be.

939
00:48:43,813 --> 00:48:47,693
Speaker 5: They consistently set the standards and the empire basically crumbled

940
00:48:47,733 --> 00:48:50,573
Speaker 5: overnight and there's got to be a degree of accountability

941
00:48:50,613 --> 00:48:50,773
Speaker 5: for that.

942
00:48:51,173 --> 00:48:54,413
Speaker 3: It does. That'll about do us for a Rugby Direct

943
00:48:55,933 --> 00:48:57,613
Speaker 3: nursing a little injury, so just going to call it

944
00:48:57,693 --> 00:49:01,773
Speaker 3: slightly earlier than what happened there. Well, I believe in fact,

945
00:49:01,773 --> 00:49:03,413
Speaker 3: I know for a fact you punched me right on

946
00:49:03,533 --> 00:49:06,533
Speaker 3: the near bit of the elbow, right in the bone.

947
00:49:07,293 --> 00:49:10,533
Speaker 3: And this is a out as the recording, probably about

948
00:49:10,533 --> 00:49:13,253
Speaker 3: six hours ago, and I am struggling still to move.

949
00:49:14,173 --> 00:49:16,613
Speaker 5: I'm not look I'd just like to go on records.

950
00:49:16,653 --> 00:49:19,173
Speaker 5: So I don't generally go out to bully people. But

951
00:49:19,613 --> 00:49:21,813
Speaker 5: when you when you live in a confined space for

952
00:49:21,933 --> 00:49:25,253
Speaker 5: a short space of time, sometimes is a few tour

953
00:49:25,333 --> 00:49:26,093
Speaker 5: casualties and.

954
00:49:26,293 --> 00:49:29,533
Speaker 3: Like bath housing and it's ended in a tour injury.

955
00:49:30,013 --> 00:49:31,693
Speaker 6: Yes, well you rest them.

956
00:49:31,773 --> 00:49:33,613
Speaker 3: That's gonna be in the media inside on a Friday.

957
00:49:34,733 --> 00:49:38,213
Speaker 3: Ragby Direct at the scenes until next week on Rugby

958
00:49:38,333 --> 00:49:40,813
Speaker 3: Direct thanks to your company. We'll catch you next week

959
00:49:41,333 --> 00:49:43,453
Speaker 3: after the All Blacks have their second test of the year.

960
00:49:43,573 --> 00:49:46,733
Speaker 3: Thanks as always to excess solutions and also laughs and

961
00:49:46,773 --> 00:49:48,573
Speaker 3: bars and was retiring this all together. See you next

962
00:49:48,613 --> 00:49:49,253
Speaker 3: week on rag

963
00:49:49,293 --> 00:49:56,533
Speaker 1: Betterrect For more from News Talks B listen live on

964
00:49:56,693 --> 00:49:59,613
Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

965
00:49:59,693 --> 00:50:02,253
Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.