1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: Heather, do the CLA. Now. 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 2: The government's found itself caught up in another race based 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 2: targeting controversy in the last few days. This time, of course, 4 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 2: it featured ACC and so far we haven't heard from 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: the minister at the center of it. But Scott Simpson 6 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: is with us now. 7 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: Scott, Hello, Hello Heather, thank you for being so patient. 8 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: Thank you for thank you for turning up. I appreciate it. 9 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 2: Now tell me what happened. Why did you support this 10 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 2: and then reverse your position on it. 11 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: Well, look, this is ACC's tender and we do have 12 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: an issue with under reporting and overexposure to manufacturing workplace 13 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: incidents relating to MARI and Pacifica. But that said, our 14 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: government's very clear that services, public services need to be 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: provided on the basis of need, not race. So ACC 16 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: I think now understand that I've made it very clear 17 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: to the Chief Executive and to the Chairman of the 18 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: Board that any future initiatives of this sort need to 19 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: be in conformance with the Cabinet Memo on service delivery. 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so what happened? Did you just not see the 21 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: cabinet memo? 22 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: No, No, I certainly saw the Cabinet memo. I got 23 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: some advice from ACC. They gave me advice that in 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: their view it met the cabinet memo. I had a 25 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: chance to reflect on that Thursday evening and decided that 26 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: in my view, it did not come on. 27 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: Tell me how on earth you thought that that was 28 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: the case, because this was clearly race based targeting, right 29 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: it had. There was a target for Maori and a 30 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: target for Pacifica, and that is not allowed. So how 31 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: on earth did you look at that and go that's 32 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: not race based? 33 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: I looked at the statistics related to Mari and Pacifica 34 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: manufacturing workplace injuries and accidents. That is a real problem. 35 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: But it's ACC's tender. They got it wrong, and I've 36 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: reflected on it, and so I got ACC's chief executive 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: to change her position. She's pulled the tender, and I 38 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: think you will find that when that tender goes back 39 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: out for public consultation, that it won't have these aspects. 40 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: And Okay, look, I don't want to be insulting to you, Scott, 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: but if it's not obvious to you that that is 42 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: actually in breach, are you not a smart man? It's 43 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: obvious that it's in breach of the memo. 44 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: Well, as I said, I received advice from ACC that 45 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: in their view, it met the memo. Now I had 46 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: a chance to reflect on that, and I don't agree 47 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: with him. That's why I asked the chief executive to 48 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: be about. 49 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: The Scott It's not you only reflected on it after 50 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: you defended them publicly. 51 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: Well, I defended it in one media comment, and Ben 52 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: had a chance to reflect on it, as I said, 53 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: So I didn't agree ultimately with the advice. It was 54 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: a mistake, I guess now with the benefit of hindsight 55 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: to have done that in the first place, and I've 56 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: learned a valuable lesson. 57 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: Now can you guarantee because I've paused it and they're 58 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: reflecting on it. But does that necessarily mean they're going 59 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: to abandon it. 60 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: No. I think they will still go ahead with the tender, 61 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: but they will take out the ethnic and race based 62 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: provisions that they put in it. So that's the request 63 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: that I've made to them. I've made that position very 64 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: clear to them because we still do have an issue 65 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: with manufacturing accidents. Look, there are huge issues with ACC, Heather. 66 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm very focused on getting those right. ACC needs a 67 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: big turnaround project. Rehabilitation rates are slipping and have done 68 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: for the last several years. We've got huge financial implications 69 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: for ACC. There are much much bigger issues at ACC 70 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: that I need to be focused on. I'm addressed with. 71 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: I get the point that you make. 72 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: Now listen, is it possible because from my understanding, what's 73 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: going on here is that there are certain parts of 74 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: the manufacturing sector that are particularly dangerous, right and those 75 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: are predominantly, that is, predominantly where you have Mary and 76 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: Pacific are working, so they are at the highest risk 77 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: because of where they work. Is it not possible to 78 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: simply target those areas for everybody who works there and 79 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: then clean up the stats. 80 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, that makes sense to me, and that's what 81 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: I've asked ACC officials to do. 82 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: Okay, Scott, listen, Thank you. I really do appreciate your 83 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 2: time and I know you're busy. That's got Simson, Minister 84 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: for ACC. 85 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive listen live to 86 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 1: news Talks. 87 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 88 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: on iHeartRadio.