1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Tri Shurson. Shurson willis pr Jo Spaghani, CEO of Child Fund, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: on the huddle with me this evening. High ladies. Hello, 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: we weren't expecting Shane, so I will understand if you 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: haven't thought this through particularly well, but that sounded to me, Josie, 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: very much like the same thing that has propelled Farage 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: to high polling, Trump to victory is that same thing 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: looking after the people that we would call the somewheres. 8 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: Well, the leveling up right, So and look, Shane's right, 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: what kind of country do we want? Do we want 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: a country where everything has to go into Auckland and 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 2: then a little bit into Wellington and then christ Church 12 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 2: and maybe a bit to Dunedin when we've got I 13 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 2: often think about it that you know gives people like 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 2: places like Gisbon beautiful places, right, I mean they are 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: to New Zealand as New Zealand is to the world, beautiful, 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: full of opportunity and often just abandoned. Right. So we 17 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: want regional development. We need regional development. We can't keep 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: in its own two feet. Well, the whole point about 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: the other countries don't do loans like you know. This 20 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 2: Provincial Growth Fund was doing, and now it's been renamed. 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: I know what they do is they do grants, right, 22 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: So if something's not commercial, they go, right, you want 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: to build a muscle farm in this community, create jobs. 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: We think that over the years this will become profitable 25 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: and it will have all sorts of spill on effects 26 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: where you create other businesses and other industries. So you go, right, 27 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: we'll give you a grant. And by definition, because so 28 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: many of these things are not necessarily going to be commercial, 29 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: you get lots of failures. But all you need is 30 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 2: a few successes and suddenly the East coast of New 31 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: Zealand is buzzing, the North is buzzing. And that's what 32 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: we've lacked really. I mean, we've talked about regional development 33 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: for years, and you know, if we want a country 34 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 2: where not everybody's going to have to move to Auckland, 35 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: we have to pump money into it. I think doing 36 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: grants is probably a more honest and realistic way than 37 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: doing loans, where you suddenly go, oh, these loans are 38 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: gone defaulted and they've gone bunk. 39 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: All right, what do you think, Trush? 40 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: I think, as always the intent of the intent of this, 41 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 3: it's hard to argue with right. I grew up in 42 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 3: tom at Anui. We saw freezing works, clothes, hospital clothes. 43 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 3: All the main employers close, and you know, thirty years on, 44 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 3: the town is in a very different state and there's 45 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 3: no sort of commercial base for jobs there. So that's 46 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 3: really challenging. I do look around the country though, there 47 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 3: are some regions that are actually really ripping on their 48 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 3: own two feet and doing really well because there are 49 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 3: different industries that have got in there and up and running. 50 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 3: The issue with the that has played the PGF, in 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 3: my view, is process and auditing around a lot of 52 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: the funds that went out. I might have a completely 53 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: different view on how to do this than other people. 54 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: But if you take that quantum of money that was 55 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 3: the PGF in New Zealand, it is a It is 56 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 3: a transformative amount of money. I think it was three 57 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: point five billion dollars. If you took that money and 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: you had a single, focused outcome that you wanted to 59 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 3: achieve with it, that can be actually transformative. When you 60 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: take that amount of money and you break it up 61 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 3: into lots of little bits, it's much harder to get 62 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: a really big benefit. 63 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: It gets you lots I agree with that, and it's 64 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: a little bit like when I look at AID, which 65 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: is in a sense of regional development project in the Pacific, 66 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 2: you could just spend all of the AID budget on 67 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: bringing digital connectivity to every community in the Pacific, and 68 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: you probably do more for development, and. 69 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: A specific a great example of it, because you've ended 70 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: up with a whole bunch of states being beneficiary states, right, 71 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: instead of actually standing on their own two feets. So 72 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: it makes us feel good and maybe we can tell 73 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: ourselves we're helping. But in the long room run, and. 74 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: That says more, like Tricia, I agree with you, Trisha, 75 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: it says more about the process and the way that 76 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: we're doing it, not the principle of investing. So if 77 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: you look at I mean, rocket Lab emerged out of 78 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: Mahia Peninsula, So there's no reason why really entrepreneurial, amazing 79 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: companies and businesses and jobs and so on can't emerge 80 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: in the. 81 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: Regions if you get it right. Let's tall, let's take 82 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: a break and we'll come back to the other make 83 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: work thing that we appear to be doing, which is 84 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: ol in geek right your back of the huddle, Trisherson Shearson, 85 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: willis pr and Josepheghany, All right, do you do touch typing? 86 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 3: When I was in Form three in nineteen eighty six, 87 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 3: which I have just written to my best friends about 88 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 3: because it's forty years since we met. In the third 89 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 3: form at high school, I was in mis Rafel's type 90 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: in class and these were huge computers and we had 91 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 3: to go home and sew our own bib, this contraption 92 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 3: that you put over the keys, so you learned to 93 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 3: touch type. You couldn't see to type that. 94 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: Oh they were doing it so that you were blind faults. 95 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 3: So you were so effectively it had you had to 96 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: so that mine was terrible. Can't so elastic bands around 97 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 3: the back of the typewriter and then a piece of 98 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: fabric that completely covered the keys and then went round you. 99 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 3: So when you were typing, you you literally had to 100 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 3: learn blind and we had to by wrote, which I. 101 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: Can ball in the nineteen twenties, I know I can. 102 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: I can still recite to you the keyboard off the 103 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 3: top of my head because we had to learn by 104 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: wrote exactly how they and. 105 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: This is a skill. 106 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: You do not regret learning my touch typing, along with 107 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: being forced to learn shorthand. When I was doing my 108 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 3: degree have been my saving graces. 109 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: It is quite good. What do you do? I just 110 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: do the you know, the two fingers t rex thing. 111 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: But also it worries me. And we're all talking about 112 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: our education system Adam for Nightam at the moment, were 113 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: we really going to focus on teaching our kids touch 114 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: typing when everyone's going teach them AI how to manage them? 115 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: How about teach them maths? How about maths? 116 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: I mean, or how about teach them to spell? I mean, 117 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: none of my kids can spell. They can't even do 118 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: paragraphs for some reason. Teaching I don't know what a 119 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: paragraph your kids know that you get. They cut these 120 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 2: essays about the Romans or something, and it comes back 121 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: with no paragraphs, and you go, why don't you make 122 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 2: a paragraph? And we well, we're told not to. 123 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 3: I tell you, I tell you what. Though, to your 124 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 3: point about I was reading a really interesting article might 125 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 3: have been in Forbes this week about actually most workspaces 126 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 3: now in officers, in you know, the kind of leading 127 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 3: places around the world, they are all being kitted out with 128 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: a mic because it's all voice. You're at your desk, 129 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 3: You're not you're not typing anymore. You're you're talking you're 130 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: dictator or you're blinking. 131 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: Like GP, and you go, I need to lick my 132 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: HRT patch to two hundred and fifty pleads GPS dictating 133 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,799 Speaker 1: it into the microphone. Well, it's all AI at the GP. 134 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: All the notes are. 135 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's depressing that we're talking about touch typing and 136 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: the rest of the world is. 137 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: Gone to listen. You are something of an expertish on gas, 138 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: so tell me what you think. 139 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 2: I'm married to an expert. 140 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: Ye, what do you think of the yelling look? 141 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: A necessary solution because otherwise, yeah, because otherwise we're going 142 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: to have we're going to run out of energy. 143 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: But what about when shuts down at. 144 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: These So Methodics is shutting down because there isn't enough gas. 145 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: So let's be honest, about three up heaps of gas 146 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: for us? 147 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: Well not lots, right, they're going because about a quarter 148 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 2: only about a quarter of that capacity left, so they're going. So, yes, 149 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: you might be able to fill in the household energy 150 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 2: supply electricity supply for maybe a year, but it's not 151 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: a long term solution. So Methodics goes. We deindustrialized the 152 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: whole of New Zealand because we've stopped producing any gas 153 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: it's not that we're not doing renewables. We're doing heaps 154 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: of it. But for that five percent of the energy 155 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 2: capacity for me, you need something else, and we need 156 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: to discover another gas field because the reason methodics is 157 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: going is because Maui's running out and the other big 158 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: ones are running out and we haven't spent any money 159 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: or resources. And let's be honest, let's go back to 160 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: the beginning of this, the ban on oil and gas 161 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: pipe dream. It was a unicorn dream. You've got to 162 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: have something that you use. Gas is the best thing 163 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: when the sun's not shining and the wind's not blowing, 164 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: So we have to get ellergy. 165 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 3: Yet leave me cut to the chase here, and this 166 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 3: is getting to the heart of it rather than Josie's 167 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 3: pillow talk at home about what might what might work 168 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 3: in the electricity Yeah, I'm joking. Go go back to 169 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: the cabinet paper on this, which said natural gas prices 170 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: which both set the marginal price of electricity and are 171 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: a critical input for industry. Right, So that's the transcribe 172 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: of mind. That's what the cabinet paper said. So if 173 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 3: natural gas is setting electricity prices and imported lerg is 174 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: more expensive than current gas in New. 175 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: Zealand, way up to potentially three times. 176 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: What happens to electricity prices with this do the calculation? 177 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: The prices go up when we have an energy shock, 178 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: when we don't have enough supply. That's when the prices spike. 179 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: They even spike when we think we might not have 180 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: enough supply. So that's a bigger problem than the fact 181 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: that energy. And yes, absolutely it's more expensive than natural 182 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: gas if only we could use our own natural gases. 183 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: But this is not without consequence, right, we are paying 184 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: for this thing. We will have to pay a tax 185 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: and energy tax now to fund this thing. 186 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: Well and less than we would if we did nothing. 187 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 2: So if we didn't build this energy for sile and 188 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: we just went, oh god, I've got to get more colon. 189 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: Did you see what? What what Tricia did today? She's 190 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: been reading cabinet papers and Forbes so just casually yeah, 191 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: what hey? 192 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 3: I mean this is just bau for me, along with 193 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 3: touch getting married and Woman's Week, along with touch typing. 194 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: Okay, god see you very much appreciate it. Look after yourselves. 195 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: It's a huddle. This even in Tricius and Joseph beganni. 196 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 3: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. 197 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 2: Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 198 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio