1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Many people are not allowed to get into private equity 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: in the US. You have to have a net worth 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: of over one million dollars and you have to have 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: an income above two hundred thousand. I think the potential 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: for private equity is larger than crypto. You've got many 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: private companies that are worth currently thirteen trillion dollars. There's 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: no question Elon Musk people you know, either love him 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: or hate him. Arguably, he's one of the greatest entrepreneurs 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: we've ever had, certainly the richest on Paperjora. 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 2: And welcome to Shared Lunch, brought to you by Cheesy's. 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 2: I'm Helen Madison, and today on the program, we take 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: a look at how retail investors might get the opportunity 13 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: to invest in private equity. Normally you have to be 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,319 Speaker 2: a wholesale investor to do this, in other words, an 15 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: institution or an individual who has access to millions of dollars. 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: With fewer companies listing on share markets today, searching for 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: other potential that's not publicly listed as a hot topic 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: in a moment to the people behind the first private 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: public crossover exchange traded fund, Dr Joel Schulman from er 20 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 2: Shares Before we jump in, here's some important information. 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 3: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 3: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 4: Everything you're about. 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 3: To see and here is current at the time of recording. 26 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: Welcome, Joel, thanks for joining us from Boston tonight. 27 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,279 Speaker 4: Thank you, it's great to join you. Joel. 28 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 2: You're all about democratizing access to private equity. I'm really 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 2: curious to see why you're so passionate about that. 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: Well, so, for the last twenty years, we've seen etl's 31 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: increase from about one trillion to about thirteen trillion dollars. 32 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: In corresponding with that growth in ETRS, we've seen a similar, 33 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: almost identical increase in private equity, growing from one trillion 34 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: to thirteen trillion. And now so we've seen this parallel 35 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: path of two fairly large markets increase in size, considerably 36 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: increase in size thirteen acts. But yet we haven't seen 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: any sort of crossover, no linkage, and so we're excited 38 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: to provide opportunity for retail investors to finally access to 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: this private market that they've been precluded from investing in 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: all these years. 41 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: One thing we can't ignore though this week, Joel, is 42 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: the sort of sea of red that Will Street has 43 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 2: been experiencing. They're still pretty bruised even the second week. 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: And now the tech stocks particularly, I know that's one 45 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: that you favor quite a bit, have been hit. What's 46 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 2: your perspective a on where things are going? 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: But also is. 48 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 2: This constant volatility sort of making a sort of statement 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: whereby some companies may not really want to list anymore 50 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 2: and remain private. 51 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Well so, independent of whatever has been going on in 52 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks here in the US, and 53 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: they've peaked about mid February, and since mid February, things 54 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: have been on the decline. And that corresponds probably more 55 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: so with policy issues and maybe valuation issues to some extent, 56 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: a lot of things going on that you probably hear 57 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: about New Zealand that is addressing sort of our internal 58 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: situation with you know, potential concerns and. 59 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 4: Backlash on tariffs. 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: Independent of that, however, the reason why private equity has 61 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: not been coming to market more frequently, there's been a 62 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: hesitation among many of the issuers to go to the 63 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: IPO market. Public markets for the last few years, and 64 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: there's a variety of reasons for that, perhaps nuisance lawsuits 65 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: and other things which have caused many companies to pause. 66 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: So when we think about, you know, twenty five thirty 67 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: years ago when Amazon went public at five hundred million 68 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: dollars and in Nvidia went to market a five hundred 69 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: and sixty million dollars. This is back in ninety eight 70 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: ninety nine around that time period. We're not seeing that anymore. 71 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: We're seeing companies stay private longer and come to market 72 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, ten billion, twenty billion, thirty billion, levels that 73 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: twenty five years ago would have been unheard of. And 74 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: so it's more of that, you know, compared to the 75 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: you know, the recent tumult in the marketplace. 76 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: Okay, so this volatility, you thinking too, that this is 77 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: going to be the new normal. 78 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: For example, Well, I think the current volatility is a temporary, 79 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: a temporary happenstance in the US markets. In fact, if anything, 80 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: I think this may be a buyer's opportunity to come in. 81 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: And the reason why I say that we're the last 82 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: tip we had was in twenty one twenty two, we 83 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: actually had a recessionary environment. Recessionary conditions. We had interest 84 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: rates going up, we had the economy slowing down. We 85 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: a lot of problems stemming from the COVID nineteen. 86 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 4: You know crisis. And the follow from that. 87 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: Is now we're seeing a volatility associated with internal and 88 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: concerns regarding your terrif issues. But the economy here in 89 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: the US one of the strongest economies in the world. 90 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: The economy is generally okay. I mean there's that, you know, 91 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: the economy is you know, is chugging along at a 92 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: two three percent you know, or so clip on GDP, 93 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: and and so I don't see the same sort of 94 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: issues we've had in the past when we've seen markets 95 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: slow down. So I see this particular drop the last 96 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: month more temporary than long term. I think actually in 97 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, we're going to see the markets end 98 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: in a very strong path, you know, particularly here in 99 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: the US. 100 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 4: I see the markets on a strong note. 101 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: John, Just thinking about the popularity of private equity. I mean, 102 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: we've seen the likes of governments and pension funds, a 103 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: number of kind of traditional institutions if you like, want 104 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: a piece of the pie. What's behind that? Are they 105 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: feeling that it's least risky because I mean it is 106 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: classed as an a liquid a seat. 107 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: It is a liquid And unfortunately, retail investors are not 108 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: allowed to get into this. You have to be an 109 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: accredited investor, at least that's the case in the US 110 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: and most markets. 111 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 4: You have to have a net worth. 112 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: Again, in the US, you have to have a net 113 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: worth of over one million dollars and you have to 114 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: have an income above two hundred thousand or two hundred 115 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: thousand if you're a joint filer between you and your spouse. 116 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 4: And so many people are not allowed to get. 117 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: Into private equity and they have to watch these opportunities 118 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: pass them by. So when they read about an anthropic 119 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: or an open AI or a scale AI, or an 120 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: and a ROLL or an r case space X, they're 121 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: not allowed to invest in. And so it's only the 122 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: accredited investors, the institutional investors, the big pension funds, endowments, 123 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: and the rich individual investors, the ultra high networth high 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: network that can invest in private equities and sharing these rewards. 125 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 2: Joel, lets have a look at XOVR, which is the 126 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: private public crossover exchange traded fund which I think you 127 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: launched back in August last year, so not that long ago. 128 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: And it's called the first of its kind, but is 129 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: that because it is actually excess for retail investors? What's 130 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: the difference? 131 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: So it's the it was the first etr to allow 132 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: private equity in the ETF wrapper, and so private equity 133 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: has been around for a while in open m mutual 134 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: funds or closed them mutual funds, or even something called 135 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: an interval fund, but this is the first time it's 136 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: been in an ETF wrapper. And there's some, you know, 137 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,119 Speaker 1: some nuances to that. The interval fund may not trade 138 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: as often or allow it may trade, it may trade more, 139 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: it may trade, but it may not allow liquidity very often. 140 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: I should have said that a closed end fund may 141 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: trade in a premium or a discount to NAV and 142 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: so the net asset value. So if it trades the premium, 143 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: that means that the true value of the assets are 144 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: one level and the price that you pay to access 145 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: them may be at a higher level. With an ETF, 146 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: it's chairly price very close to net asset value, and 147 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: it allows trading through the day, which enables people to 148 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: have liquidity to go in and out, which for a 149 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: private equity for an et for an ETF to have 150 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: private equity as unusual, it's eighty five percent. In our index. 151 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: We have an index called the Entrepreneur thirty Index. It 152 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: has a track record that goes back for many years 153 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: and it's a growth oriented index. And importantly, when we 154 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: built the index, we built the index on a VC platform. 155 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: So by way of background, I'm a professor at a 156 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: school called Batson College, which some people in New Zealand 157 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: may have heard of. It's the number one school notnchpreneurship 158 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: and I've been a ten yearful professor there for many years. 159 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: And I built this model to invest in publicly traded 160 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: companies based on how venture capitalists investing private companies, and 161 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: so we've been doing that for many years. So for 162 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: us to now go into private equities, it's consistent with 163 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: the way we've invested right along, where we look at 164 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: companies as if they were a private or venture capital backfirms, 165 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: and we look at those companies both in the public form. 166 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 4: But now we're going back and getting them right before 167 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 4: they go public. 168 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: So Joe, that index is that what this ETF private 169 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: public crossover actually tricks? Is that right? 170 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 4: Right? 171 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 1: So the index is called the entrepreneur thirty index. It 172 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: actually has a ticker. The E is an Edward Ars 173 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: and Robert three zero thirty. If people, investors, or anyone 174 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: chooses to look at XOVR, they'll see that it's highly correlated, 175 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: moves very closely with the ER thirty tier indexes. We've 176 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: relaunched in August twenty ninth, twenty twenty four, So prior 177 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: to August twenty ninth, the fund was investing differently. 178 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: Okay, so the CTF tracks that entrepreneurial index. If you 179 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: like an inseet basket of thirty entrepreneurial stocks, but you 180 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: have the private equity aspect as there included, and that 181 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 2: like I know, SpaceX is eleven percent I think of 182 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: the holdings you have currently and any of these other 183 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: things like open AI. 184 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: So the index does not include private So the difference 185 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: between the index and XOVR. XOVR has the index for 186 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: the majority of the fund, but also now has ten 187 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: to fifteen percent private equities. The largest holding SpaceX. So 188 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: SpaceX is around ten or eleven percent of our total 189 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: portfolio and it represents the majority of our private equity holdings. 190 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: We have another stock, another private stock called Klarna, which 191 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: is a buy and LP later stock. It's a Swedish company. 192 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 1: They just announced that they're going to come up with 193 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: their IPO and that we expect that news to be 194 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: forthcoming in the next. 195 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 4: Week or so. 196 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 2: So the holding of say ten to fifteen percent private equity, 197 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: is there a cap like would the regulator come down 198 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: on you if you increased that? Because I've seen, you know, 199 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: some of the other competitors are thinking about maybe up 200 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: to thirty five percent private equity in an eating right, 201 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: What sort of constrains you for keeping it there? And 202 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: is there a good reason to keep it, say fifteen percent. 203 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: So private equity is, as you point out, an illiquid asset. 204 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 4: And even though space x is. 205 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: A three hundred and fifty billion dollar market cap as 206 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: of the last tender offer, it's still it's it's you know, 207 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: it's widely held among high net worth and institutional investors. 208 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: It doesn't trade is frequently obviously as a public equity security, 209 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: So it's still considered illiquid. And even though it may 210 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: be more liquid than other private equities, it's still in 211 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: the general scheme of things illiquid and as a result, 212 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: a regulatory body here in the US called the SEC 213 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: the Securities Exchange Commission restricts having too much of an 214 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: ETF or any it's they're called forty Act funds, which 215 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: means they're regulated by the nineteen forties Acts, which includes 216 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: mutual funds, open end closed end funds, and ETFs. Those 217 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: instruments which go to the retail market could be limited 218 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: need to be limited to fifteen percent. And I think 219 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: it's a good rule because it protects the retail investor. 220 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: And we're being very careful to stay underneath that fifteen 221 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: percent threshold. 222 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: So it's a sort of a guard viol in some 223 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 2: ways the font PAS, so that particus the retail and 224 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: vista Right, what about in terms of excess as the 225 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 2: no minimum investment I think is what I read. And 226 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: also I mean sort of the cost you talk about 227 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: it being relatively low, I mean, actually how accessible is 228 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: it for someone who doesn't have lots of money? 229 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: So access for an ETF and our ETF has no minimum, 230 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: so we have daily liquidity, you can come in. We 231 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: have investors who come in for one hundred dollars or 232 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, I'm sure we have probably some 233 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: investors that come in for fifty dollars or one hundred 234 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: or a thousand, So there's no limit, no minimum investment. 235 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: Daily liquidity you can buy and sell the same day 236 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: through trading hours in the US which are nine thirty 237 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: to four. We try to market pretty close to net 238 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: asset value which on a daily basis to get that 239 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: and so we think it provides and we try to 240 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: keep our fees relatively low for this type of instrument. 241 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: Other instruments that have access to equity charge appreciably more 242 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: than our management fee were well below one percent, and 243 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: so we try to make it attractive to any investor 244 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: could do. Someone could be a retail investor with fifty 245 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: or one hundred dollars to put to work, and they 246 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: could be somebody. 247 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 2: You know. 248 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: We had an investor today to come in for three million, 249 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: so we have a wide range of investors who come 250 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: into our fund. 251 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: What are the risks though, because we've talked about a 252 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: liquid assets being the private equity aspect, but as you've 253 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 2: sort of said, it depends really on the likes of 254 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: that private equity with SpaceX, it could be slightly different. 255 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 2: I mean the risks are they as great as they 256 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 2: would be for other investments, or how would a retail 257 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: investor kind of assess that right. 258 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: So, first and foremost the fundamental risk that the investor 259 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: has in XOVR, it's just the market movement. And so 260 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: we are growth oriented. We have we have exposure to 261 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: attack and we primarily enforced actors, information technologies, healthcare, consumer 262 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: discretionary and communication services. We have some fintech as well, 263 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: and we have of course exposure you know, to space exploration. 264 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: So we tend to be in high growth industries, high 265 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: growth companies. And so first and foremost the risk that 266 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: investor would have in our funds, which is the same 267 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: that they would have for example, if they invest in 268 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: the qqques or other growth oriented indices that invest heavily 269 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: in tech and healthcare, is the market movement. So if 270 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: interest rates rise tech in other securities which are considered 271 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: long duration, long duration means you get more of your 272 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: benefits in the future, those types of stocks are going 273 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: to suffer when interest rates go up or when this 274 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: market volatility or when markets contract. So you investors tend 275 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: to see when when investors, when investors get nervous, they 276 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: tend to move more to value, or they tend to 277 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: move to cash, or they tend to move to bonds. 278 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: When you come to private equities, you'll see it's probably 279 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: even more exacerbated in the marketplace like that. So for example, 280 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: one of the stocks, and even though the private markets 281 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: have been you know, showing with SpaceX, you know, some 282 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: of the secondary markets are showing SpaceX you know, doing 283 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: well and so forth, which you know, we would expect that, 284 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, to do well based on a lot of 285 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: idiosyncratic conditions. Some of the pure benchmarks in this market 286 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: are moving. So sometimes you'll see privates not correspond with 287 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: those movements because the other public markets are moving daily 288 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: and privates may be seeing a stationary They tend to 289 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: move in step function. They can move into step function 290 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: both up and they can move into step function down. 291 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: And as we saw in twenty one and twenty two, privates, 292 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, we're moving in a step function down. Now 293 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing you know, over the last couple of years 294 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: markets were more positive, more growth oriented. We saw privates 295 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: appreciating during twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four, early 296 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: part of twenty twenty five, and we'll see soon. For example, 297 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: probably our best litmus test is going to be one 298 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: of our holdings, Klarna. 299 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 4: We'll see how it comes out. 300 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: We bought it an evaluation of market evaluation twelve billion. Well, 301 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: it's going to come out to peer benchmarks like a firm. 302 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: There's a company in Australia called after Pay that was 303 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: bought by Block. You'll we'll see very soon how the 304 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: market is valuing these and we expect our stock to 305 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: move comparable to these valuations as well. So we'll we'll 306 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: have a pretty good insight fairly soon, probably within the 307 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: next few weeks, how how that particular private security is 308 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: holding up or not when market information comes out. 309 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: As the advantages to investing in an eighteenth flight this 310 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 2: into of that private equity aspects, and would you get 311 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: more transparency than if I would just went straight into 312 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 2: private equity privately you know if you know what. 313 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean, Well, if you went into a private equity 314 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: directly yourself, that means you're again ultra you're either a 315 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: high net worth ultra high networth individual investor. You can 316 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: spread your legal costs and infrastructure costs in buying these things, 317 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: and plus you'll have a better idea of how to negotiate. 318 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 4: If you're doing it frequently. 319 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: So for many investors or let's say putting to work 320 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars or less. Even if you're an 321 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: individual investor, even if you're a high net worth investor, 322 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: you may not want to go directly in. And for 323 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: everyone else it's you're not allowed. You can't get into 324 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: it because there are restrictions in getting in. And for 325 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: even ultra high networth people, they may want the liquidity 326 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: because they may want to go in. Even if they 327 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: have the ability to go directly into a private equity, 328 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: they may want the liquidity. Maybe they have a wedding 329 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: in the family than want to spend money or buy 330 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: a new house, or you'll do a buy a boat. 331 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: So the liquidity becomes very important to people. And that's 332 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: the advantage of an ETF. 333 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: What do you think the potential for private equity is. 334 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: I've seen you've quoted before saying it could be I 335 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 2: think five to six times the size of crypto, and 336 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 2: well bigger than as you've already explained to ETFs. Why 337 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: do you think that and how soon are we talking? 338 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: Well, Crypto is an interesting acid class. I don't recall 339 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: saying it's five to six times a larger than crypto. 340 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I wouldn't say that I think the 341 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: potential for private equity is larger than crypto in that 342 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: you've got many private companies that are worth currently thirteen 343 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: trillion dollars. Crypto is currently I think one to two 344 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: trillion dollars. I don't know after the most recent your 345 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: price point. So currently it's five to six times higher. 346 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: Maybe I was quoted saying that that's currently it's higher. 347 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: In terms of the trajectory, I think private equity is 348 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: going to continue to attract more and more capital. We're 349 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: seeing it, you know, through the early part of well 350 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: we saw in twenty twenty four, is attracting a lot 351 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: more of the capital going into companies than even public equity. 352 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: And as I mentioned before, many companies are choosing to 353 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: stay private longer for a variety of reasons. And so 354 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: as a result, and this is a global phenomenon. The 355 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: fact that we're seeing Karna, which is a Swedish company, 356 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 1: coming to market here in the US, you'll suggest that 357 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: this is an opportunity for global investors. So they're probably 358 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: companies in New Zealand that may choose to go public 359 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: someday and maybe you know, it's going to take them 360 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: a while. Maybe some of your best own companies down there, 361 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: you know, would like to tap the public markets. The 362 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: best markets to go public tend to be in the US. 363 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: They tend to be the NASTAC and the New York 364 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: SoC Exchange. So for example, we've seen in Europe the 365 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: London Stock Exchange pale in terms of volume compared to 366 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: the US markets. Maybe one of these types of vehicles 367 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: where larger, better known brands are seeing private equity as 368 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: of mechanism to get there in anticipation of going public 369 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 1: maybe six months a year, within two years down the road. 370 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: It's rocket Lab one that you've looked at, or is 371 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: it a conflict given you've got SpaceX. 372 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: Rocket Lab is is a pure company. It's an entrepreneurial company. 373 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: It's what we looked at. It's currently a small cap. 374 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: We tend to in our XOVR ETF. One of the 375 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: things I did mention these are entrepreneurial, publicly traded entrepreneurial companies, 376 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: but they're large cap, which means that they tend to 377 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: be ten billion dollars or larger in cap size. So 378 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: rocket Lab is a company that we've looked at. It's 379 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: a little small by our standards in terms of the 380 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: in terms of the fund we have. Moreover, we already 381 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: have a very large position in SpaceX. We see that 382 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: we see SpaceX is the dominant player. And so one 383 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: of the things I did not mention beforehand. When we 384 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: go into private equity, one of the things we want 385 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: to do is pick the leader. We want to pick 386 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: the company with the biggest mote, and the case of SpaceX, 387 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: one of the things I didn't mention before him. It's 388 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: not only an entrepreneurial company that obviously is involved in 389 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: space exploration, but as your group knows in New Zealand, 390 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: it has Starlink, and Starlink is the crown jewel of SpaceX. 391 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: And because they have seventy two hundred plus satellites in 392 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: low Earth orbit around the world, and because they're now 393 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: supplying telecommunications to geographically remote locations both the land, sea 394 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: and air around the world, because it has geopolitical importance 395 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: for military capabilities, this is emerging. SpaceX, which holds Starlink, 396 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: is emerging. Are one of the most critical assets that the 397 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,479 Speaker 1: United States has from a military perspective, and we believe 398 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: that this is one of those companies that's going to 399 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: continue to rise in importance globally, but certainly within the US. 400 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: And that's irrespective of the fact that Elon Musk is 401 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: part of the the Trump administration. So there's that extra 402 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: political benefit that we see that makes us like this 403 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: particular asset even more. 404 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 2: Have you had any backlash? I mean, el Musk isn't 405 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: always the most popular with everybody around the world, right. 406 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 4: So the backlash is there. 407 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no question Elon Musk people you know, 408 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: either love him or hate him. You may know, our 409 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: president also has has you know, people who are polarized 410 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: around him that you love him or hate him. I 411 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: saw a recent poll that says he's he's now has 412 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: the he now has the most popular ratings he's ever had, 413 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: But he still has a large percent of the population 414 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: that don't like him. So irrespective of whether people think 415 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: they he's great or not, we have to recognize that, 416 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: you know, politicians whether and by the way, the same 417 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: thing held true for the politician before him. You know, 418 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: Joe Biden was very polarizing, so half the population didn't 419 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: really like him. So so in these particular situations, you know, 420 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: there tends to be a backlash among you know, various 421 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: political groups. 422 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 4: Was with Elon Musk. 423 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: You'll arguably, arguably he's one of the greatest entrepreneurs we've 424 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: ever had, certainly the richest on paper. A lot of 425 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: people don't like him, but a lot of people do 426 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: like him, and in terms of his capabilities and what 427 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: he built with SpaceX and Starlink, we think it's an 428 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: extraordinary company. We know that sometimes there's again geopolitical risks. 429 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: So when the US and Canada we're having tiff issues, 430 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: there is a politician in Canada said, you know, we 431 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: want to we want to cut off the the Starlink. 432 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: We want to cut off the Starlink contract. Well, what 433 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: what they're really doing, what this politician was doing is 434 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: cutting off you know, starlink access for ten or fifteen 435 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: thousand people you're living in geographical remote areas of Canada, 436 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: then weren't going to get the cell phone service and TV. 437 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: So he wasn't really hurting Starling so much as he 438 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: was hurting his own consumers. So the fact that some 439 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: of these assets are becoming a geopolitical you know, hot potato, 440 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: we don't believe is a long term concern. We realize 441 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: it's an issue, but we believe the value and the 442 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: benefit of starlink not only in space exploration, but more 443 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: importantly with telecommunications and what it has in terms of 444 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: capabilities you know, for weather sell like monitoring and helping 445 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: to grow telecommunications globally is really important. 446 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: Just wondering where does sustainability come in with the index 447 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 2: that the fun tricks for the listed equities anyway, is 448 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: there any thought of that or is it purely on 449 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 2: on entrepreneurship and picking a great entrepreneur as opposed to 450 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: an average entrepreneur. 451 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting when people talk about sustainability or ESG 452 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: the so first and foremost, most of our stocks are 453 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: in tech and healthcare and communication services and consumer discretionary 454 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: so it doesn't have a very large carbon imprint. But importantly, 455 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: when we think about governance, these are the entrepreneurs globally. 456 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: And I'm sure if you think about your top entrepreneurs, 457 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: your top business people in New Zealand. 458 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 4: They're probably entrepreneurs. 459 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: And that's certainly true in almost every country around the 460 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: world that the people creating the jobs, creating the wealth 461 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: for societies around the world are these entrepreneurs. And this 462 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: has been true forever, right, So if you go back 463 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: in your country's history. You'll see the great entrepreneurs were 464 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: the ones who created the wealth in your society, just 465 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: as it's these entrepreneurs have done it in other places. 466 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: Getting back to XOVR, there's a fair bit of competition 467 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 2: on your heels. I mean Black Rock are looking at 468 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: this or maybe even launched something. I say that Apollo 469 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 2: and State Street Global Advisors, they've put a fund up 470 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: that said it's gone into a bit of trouble with 471 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: the regulator, and it's probably slightly different when they talk 472 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 2: about private credit being behind it. Are you worried that 473 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 2: there's there's many more coming in or do you think 474 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: it's a good thing to have a competition and the 475 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 2: are the big differences between the funds. 476 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: Probably well so C Street and Apollo or as you mentioned, 477 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: private credit, which is a completely different market. We're in 478 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: private equity and we're trying to take the leadership position 479 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: with EXOVR. We're working with some of the databases to 480 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: take leadership role and how private equity is being priced 481 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: on a regular basis. So we're working very closely there 482 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: and we're continuing to try to advance the state of 483 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: the markets. And so competition's inevitable others will come in. 484 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: We've been grappling with this for a while. We didn't 485 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: We launched the fund in August of twenty nine of 486 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, but we didn't buy our first private 487 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: equity until December third, so three months later, so only 488 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: a small part of the overall fund can be in 489 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: private equity. As I mentioned before, private equity is consistent 490 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: with our model. Our entrepreneur model started on the private side. 491 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: It was based on venture capitalists, and then we extended 492 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: that over to the public. And we have a track 493 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: record which goes back and shows how we were able 494 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: to get into things like Nvidia back in two thousand 495 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: and five and our funds when we first launched, and 496 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: we got Amazon in two thousand and five. So our strategy, 497 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: our approach enables to get into companies fairly early on, 498 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: which we think is commenser with again our investment thesis. 499 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: We're basically again taking private companies, venture capital back companies 500 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: and seeing as they go through and identifying them once 501 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: they become public if other companies try to PLoP in 502 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: private equity and maybe inconsistent with their thesis. And in fact, 503 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: we recently talked to a fund manager or a CIO 504 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: of a major company who put a company in called 505 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,239 Speaker 1: app Loven into a value fund and we couldn't we 506 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: couldn't disagree more. And app love and is one of 507 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: the highest growth stocks in the market. We've owned it 508 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: for several years. It's gone up something like three thousand 509 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: times our three thousand percent now three thousand times three 510 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: thousand percent in the last two and a half years. 511 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: It's not a value stock, it's a gross stock. But 512 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: yet this value manager put it in. So other funds 513 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: that try to put private equity into it into their 514 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: funds that they're probably not going to be consistent with 515 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: the investment theme. 516 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 2: Just to finish off, Joe, I'm just wondering what sort 517 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 2: of takeap have you head for the IXOVR and particularly 518 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: in Australia mwsaland so. 519 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: We very much appreciate you asking the question. We don't 520 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: see the flows as an ETF. We're not allowed to 521 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: see where they're coming home from, but we know that 522 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: they're strong demand. You're coming from your part of the 523 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: world just recently started. We know there are some brokers 524 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: in your area that have recently listed US, and we 525 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: appreciate the interest that you're express in here. It's a 526 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: great story space Ax and Starlink, great story around the world. 527 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: Having access to private equity is certainly, you know, part 528 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: of our story and with daily liquidity, so we appreciate 529 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: you helping us get the word out. Is a pleasure 530 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: speaking with you, and we hope to communicate with you 531 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: more in the near future. 532 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: Really appreciate you joining us, Joel, and thanks everyone for 533 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 2: tuning in. You can watch Shed Lunch on YouTube or 534 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: follow us on your favorite podcast app. Leave us a 535 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: rating and a comment about what you'd like to hear next.