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Speaker 2: from Test Matt Rugby once again the Nations Championship, not
Speaker 2: that you'll see it on the All Black sleeve, of course.
Speaker 2: Elliott Smith with me Liam Napier naps the Blacks name
Speaker 2: their team to play the Irish. The drums had been
Speaker 2: beating all week long for to provide the start up
Speaker 2: Blindside flank. Da've Renny dropped a massive hint speaking to
Speaker 2: Sky last week and then the whispers were beginning that
Speaker 2: he was going to start up Blindside and sure enough
Speaker 2: he is. Is that the top line for you from
Speaker 2: this All Blacks team?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely. It's the perennial, recurring, unsolvable theme of the
Speaker 3: All Blacks going back however many years, however, many trials
Speaker 3: and experiments, and it comes full circle again, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Ian Foster tried to provide on the blind Side. Scott
Speaker 3: Robertson tried him there, and now Dave Reny, three weeks
Speaker 3: into his tenure, picks his third Blindside flank. I'm unconvinced
Speaker 3: elliotts He brings size, he is clearly a great line
Speaker 3: out option, but I think he lacks pace and it
Speaker 3: is quite the contrast to all the messaging that we've
Speaker 3: had from Ny around speeds pace optimism, and you're sacrificing
Speaker 3: a lot of mobility and speed to the breakdown by
Speaker 3: supersizing your pack, not only with Tuper Vibe but also
Speaker 3: Patrick Tuopelow too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we New Zealand is searching for this body,
Speaker 2: this this archetype that we're looking for just a lot
Speaker 2: in on blind Side and we have not really found
Speaker 2: one since drom Can. Everyone knows the story that they
Speaker 2: have tried so many options over the years. You we
Speaker 2: could spend probably half an hour listing that the players
Speaker 2: that have gone through that six Jusisian Frazal's back in
Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby later in there. It could be another option.
Speaker 3: He had maybe one year where he nailed it. There
Speaker 3: was that test against the spring box. It mounts smart.
Speaker 3: But it was pretty fleeting, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Totally absolutely, But there's been a clamoring to get him
Speaker 2: back in New Zealand. Rugby will be later in the year,
Speaker 2: but for now they're gone with two po I on
Speaker 2: one hand, I think, you know, we've had Dave Any
Speaker 2: say that the numbers on the back don't matter. But
Speaker 2: evidently they are looking for this archetype on the blind
Speaker 2: side that they have not been able to nail down,
Speaker 2: and they hope that over time that tupers it's something
Speaker 2: that's going to click there. But he's just so good
Speaker 2: at lot and he's clearly in the top two locks
Speaker 2: in the country, at least I think it is. And
Speaker 2: so you're, you know, Robin Peter to pay Paul essentially
Speaker 2: in your team try and band aid up the blind side.
Speaker 2: I don't know that you gain much. I mean, Peter
Speaker 2: Lucky started there a couple of weeks ago. I thought
Speaker 2: he was okay without being you know, shooting the lights out.
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of work to do for
Speaker 2: him there. But clearly with three players starting in that
Speaker 2: role in his many weeks, they're back. Still haven't found
Speaker 2: what they're looking for to paraphrase you.
Speaker 3: Too, No they haven't. Look I My view of this
Speaker 3: is it's been over complicated to a point and it's
Speaker 3: partly due to Artie Severe's switch from open side to
Speaker 3: number eights. Dave Rennie seems wedded to that. Maybe he
Speaker 3: wants to use him on the wider channels, but I
Speaker 3: would be starting Peter Luck I had eight. I think
Speaker 3: he's among New Zealand's best loose forwards. He's such a
Speaker 3: dynamic ball carrier. I thought he was really good and
Speaker 3: that opening test. I was surprised to see him replaced.
Speaker 3: So and Brennie is clearly a big fan of Luke Jacobson,
Speaker 3: and I think he has been very good. But a
Speaker 3: loose trio of Luckeye eight, Severe at seven and Jacobson
Speaker 3: in his more traditional role of blindside does give you
Speaker 3: those complimentary skill sets is not necessarily the big bodies
Speaker 3: that you need. And I think via selection for me
Speaker 3: and too, Polo Tu reflects the fact that the All
Speaker 3: Blacks haven't got enough pay from their ball carriers. They
Speaker 3: haven't been physically dominance. Italy caused them big problems at
Speaker 3: the breakdown. They just went wide to wides. They didn't
Speaker 3: break that defensive line. So I think Rennie's wanting more physicality,
Speaker 3: more size, more power, and he clearly wants to target
Speaker 3: island set piece. I think the Irish of vulnerable. They're
Speaker 3: scrum and they use their line out as a massive
Speaker 3: weapon as well.
Speaker 2: They do. I think Sam Darry's one of the All
Speaker 2: It's best over the first couple of weeks, But maybe
Speaker 2: is he just not bringing that physicality that the All
Speaker 2: Blacks need to get over the game line.
Speaker 3: I think that's that's partly partly the reason for that.
Speaker 3: But I agree, I think Sam Darry was excellent, highly involved,
Speaker 3: and he did get some punch or bolen hand, very
Speaker 3: good at the line out. Patrick Tuopolota's vastly more senior,
Speaker 3: probably hasn't. I can't remember the He was very good
Speaker 3: off the bench for the All Black center with the.
Speaker 2: Role and it probably will be maybe the R I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe it won't be when Fabian Holland comes back that.
Speaker 2: He slots into. But then if you're going to have
Speaker 2: two per fine on the blind side, then maybe it
Speaker 2: isn't the role that he slides into. So a few
Speaker 2: question marks Patrick, when you consider him very good player,
Speaker 2: I do wonder where the thirty minutes at the back
Speaker 2: end of the game is better use of him than
Speaker 2: first fifty in a Test match like this. And I
Speaker 2: was looking at the stats before. It's something like he's
Speaker 2: played fifty seven of about one hundred fifty four tests
Speaker 2: the All Blacks have played since he debuted, So he's
Speaker 2: a lot of injuries. He's he's gone from sort of
Speaker 2: you know, being behind white lock and retallic early in
Speaker 2: his career and getting the odd appearance and having you know,
Speaker 2: has said a lot of injuries. So big opportunity for
Speaker 2: him this weekend to see what he can do elsewhere
Speaker 2: on that All Blacks team. Josh Molby on the left
Speaker 2: wing a little bit of a surprise. Suspected to go
Speaker 2: back to Cayler Clark here, but what it signals is
Speaker 2: that they were really impressed from Josh Molby last week.
Speaker 2: He hasn't played a great deal. It's a bit, but
Speaker 2: not a great deal on the left wing.
Speaker 3: So we talked today only only rarely for wak Ut
Speaker 3: in the NPC. So look, it's not a major shift,
Speaker 3: but it's it's ball carrying. It's which you fend with some.
Speaker 2: Players more comfortable switching than others as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I like that selection. It is
Speaker 3: a real reward for form. And Molby looked immediately comfortable.
Speaker 3: Didn't the off the bench last week. His pace, anticipation,
Speaker 3: skill executions. He's also a natural fullback, so quite proficient
Speaker 3: in the air. And I think Ireland will certainly test
Speaker 3: the all blacks there. And I think back to Caleb
Speaker 3: Clark coming off the bench in South Africa and in Australia,
Speaker 3: and he actually did bring a lot, so I don't mind.
Speaker 3: It is you to hold yourself a little bit carrying
Speaker 3: a winger. It is a bit of a luxury, I
Speaker 3: think because of the versatility that a lot of players have.
Speaker 3: But I have liked what Caleb Clark has brought off
Speaker 3: the bench. That would have been a fine line decision. Also,
Speaker 3: Tyro Lomax comes in to start at tighthead prop. I
Speaker 3: have a wee bit of a question mark about Fritz
Speaker 3: Nuwell on the bench. I don't view him as an
Speaker 3: impact player necessarily.
Speaker 2: Neither do Well. Look, he made some impacts this year.
Speaker 2: There's a scorching run against mo one O Pacifika from
Speaker 2: fifty sixty meters out. He's not you know, it's a
Speaker 2: different side of the scrump. He's not an a Meia
Speaker 2: type impact. But I think what you signal skive at
Speaker 2: your original point around targeting score island and the set
Speaker 2: piece is that Neils a very very good scrummer er.
Speaker 2: If they can bring him on, maybe they're scrump for
Speaker 2: penalties later in the contest and working them over that way.
Speaker 2: If it's a little bit tight, you can you can
Speaker 2: go back to your set piece and scrum.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think you're right. You've got the complimentary elements there,
Speaker 3: aren't you. Newle's going to be your scrum rock and
Speaker 3: new Mers your mobile dynamic impact player off the bench,
Speaker 3: So ticking both boxes.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: On another note, I'm a little bit surprised that they
Speaker 2: didn't give Cody Taylor a spell last week. And this
Speaker 2: is going back seven days, but I would have given
Speaker 2: Cody one of these tests off. You know, he's played
Speaker 2: a lot of rugby this year, a lot of rugby
Speaker 2: over his career. I think out of the frontline all
Speaker 2: Blacks getting him towards the twenty twenty seven World Cup,
Speaker 2: just I think you've got to get on more up
Speaker 2: to test level. Not that he's not, but you know,
Speaker 2: he hasn't played a lot of Test Rugby's been in
Speaker 2: and out, you know, almost going over a decade now
Speaker 2: at Takiyaho, we know what he can do. But I
Speaker 2: would have liked to see them play a Test match
Speaker 2: together over the series. With it was this week, whether
Speaker 2: it was last week, I think that's a miss trick
Speaker 2: from the All Blacks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think last week was too conservative
Speaker 3: of the selections and that was certainly one. I think
Speaker 3: you could have started Takyajo and brought more off the
Speaker 3: bench or vice versa, given those guys more exposure. So
Speaker 3: I think that was that was certainly a missed opportunity.
Speaker 3: What about no Boden Barrett, no Simon Parker, no Kyle Preston.
Speaker 3: Those guys aren't gonna feature at all, and these Three
Speaker 3: Nations Championship Test is at a surprise, a.
Speaker 2: Long time without rugby for those three. Yeah, when they
Speaker 2: get knocked out of the Super Rugby pluffs, if you're
Speaker 2: Bote and Barritt and Kyle Preston, you got to week
Speaker 2: two that's due middle of June. It's going to be
Speaker 2: until about the seventh of August and theory until they
Speaker 2: play rugby unless they go out and you know, knock
Speaker 2: around in the first round of MPC potentially, but I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that they will. So it's a long time
Speaker 2: without rugby for these guys. They'll probably play the Stormers.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I would have liked to see Kyle Preuston
Speaker 2: get an opportunity at some point over these three weeks.
Speaker 2: And Boden Barrett, I think the juries out whether he
Speaker 2: is the right person at ten for the All Blacks,
Speaker 2: but I think the jury's out on Ruben Love still
Speaker 2: a bit as well. But I think maybe he could
Speaker 2: have looked at him at fullback in one of these
Speaker 2: weeks too. I think he's still got something to offer
Speaker 2: this All Blacks team. We're slotson, I don't know. Simon
Speaker 2: Parker Wills goes back to the conversation around Blindside that
Speaker 2: he was another option last year. He was number eight and.
Speaker 3: It was the predominant option at six. Super Bowl was injured.
Speaker 3: But for the back half of the year, throughout those
Speaker 3: November tests, he started all of the major tests.
Speaker 2: And he didn't quite take his opportunity. So he's another
Speaker 2: one that is going to be without rugby, so maybe
Speaker 2: get some time for the tunny far But I mean
Speaker 2: they've only got preseason then they go to South Africa,
Speaker 2: so three players that won't be used I think as
Speaker 2: a real question mark, and they're going to come into
Speaker 2: South Africa with not a lot of rugby under the belt.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Dave, Rennie said that every one in that
Speaker 2: touring squad, which will be forty four strong, we'll get
Speaker 2: some game time over the first week and Sixtyo benches
Speaker 2: a possibility as well, so we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no great surprise. I think he did definitively rule
Speaker 3: out Richie Wog from that tour unless there's an injury.
Speaker 3: So I'd heard he'd been pushing quite hard behind the
Speaker 3: scenes but obviously got no rigor room from the New
Speaker 3: Ziana Rugby board on that. Muwanga will make his comeback
Speaker 3: with Canterbury, as will Shennon Frazel for Tasman. They'll tick
Speaker 3: the provincial eligibility box and then they will need an
Speaker 3: injury in the loose forwards for f Razel and fall
Speaker 3: back or first five for mu Wonga to be called up,
Speaker 3: and I would be shocked if that doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: But for fit and AfOR who was leaving the country,
Speaker 2: can be selected for the All Blacks.
Speaker 3: Yeah good. I mean it's Rubik's Cube of stipulations, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: Indeed, since we chatted on Monday with Jordy Barrett, it's
Speaker 2: not trained on Tuesday. Dave really insisting today that he
Speaker 2: is good to go with the league niggle that he
Speaker 2: was carrying. I was there Tuesday training. We went in
Speaker 2: for about fifteen minutes and he was fully in a
Speaker 2: track suit and you know it was on the park,
Speaker 2: but wasn't taking part in the skill session and the
Speaker 2: warm downs and everything like that. So hopefully it's good
Speaker 2: to go. Sound like you trained fully today and was
Speaker 2: out in the park and ready to go. Because I'm
Speaker 2: hearing the Irish big fans of Jordi Barrett Lynn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, massive fans obviously. Jordi went up there a year
Speaker 3: ago now for six months and was exceptional. He's got
Speaker 3: a great rugby brain, high IQ. He helped contribute in
Speaker 3: a big way to that lens. The group was well
Speaker 3: liked on and off the fields and set a high
Speaker 3: bar that Rico Yuanni didn't reach. Evidently he was. Rico
Speaker 3: has been called into the All Blacks, so you'd expect
Speaker 3: him to be involved in that South African tour. But
Speaker 3: it is a big week for Jordy Barrett here. I've
Speaker 3: got no doubt the All Blacks would have tapped him
Speaker 3: up this week for a bit of Intel's. It's not Leinster,
Speaker 3: but they still provide the backbone to that national team.
Speaker 3: He'll know some of those combinations and individuals intimately some
Speaker 3: of their tendencies. Dave Reny will have a clear idea
Speaker 3: about what Arlan will bring. But why would you not
Speaker 3: utilize the inside knowledge.
Speaker 2: Absolutely mate, the most of it. Rico you Andy might
Speaker 2: be able to offer some as well, given he's coming
Speaker 2: to camp as you know, maybe you'll steal the pot
Speaker 2: a little bit. And Shavey wasn't up for media that
Speaker 2: had been quite good just to defn Rico even though
Speaker 2: he's not playing. The Irish team, of course named and
Speaker 2: looked as predicted. Andy Farrell has restored what we would
Speaker 2: term his first choice squad. Obviously Kaitlin Doris. I'm not
Speaker 2: on this tour through injury, massive loss, massive loss a
Speaker 2: great player, but by and large this is close to
Speaker 2: barring a couple of selections here or there. The team
Speaker 2: that beat the Wallabies in Week one before they rotated
Speaker 2: for Japan and week two of the Nation's Championship and
Speaker 2: the probably with the one change that made is tyger
Speaker 2: Burn at blindside flanker rather than at locke. He came
Speaker 2: off the bench in the first week captain of the
Speaker 2: team from lock last week. When we talk about an
Speaker 2: archetype that can swing between locke and blindside, he's probably
Speaker 2: Peter Steph is one who can play lock if needed.
Speaker 2: But in terms of you know, not if needed, but
Speaker 2: someone that can play lock and blindside, he'd be the
Speaker 2: guy tyger Burn. You know, quality players that he comes
Speaker 2: in on blindside flank and you're fonder Flaire and Conan.
Speaker 2: You got Gibson Park who is obviously sort of nons
Speaker 2: in New Zealander's prendigas at ten. A couple of changes
Speaker 2: on the wings from that first choice team. Sorry that's
Speaker 2: the first team they played a couple of weeks back.
Speaker 2: But this is a strong Irish team. But I just
Speaker 2: wonder with the it's as strong as it was a
Speaker 2: year ago, two years you know, going back, just lost,
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of players, a bit of momentum,
Speaker 2: still very very strong. I'm not sure they strike the
Speaker 2: fear into the heart of the All Blacks and New
Speaker 2: Zealanders as maybe they did twelve months ago, twenty four
Speaker 2: months ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not just New Zealanders. It's interesting talking to Irish
Speaker 3: pundits and fans. There seems to be quite a bit
Speaker 3: of pessimism about Ireland's prospects this week about this team,
Speaker 3: and man, what a contrast three years makes because Ireland
Speaker 3: and the lead up to that twenty twenty three World
Speaker 3: Cup quarter final, they've been on a seventeen match winning
Speaker 3: run and the fans that certainly attended that game and
Speaker 3: around Paris that day, it was like that victory was
Speaker 3: a foregone conclusion. So there's been massive changes to that team.
Speaker 3: And I certainly think this Irish team is not the
Speaker 3: team they were, and I yet to convince I think,
Speaker 3: you know, it was really that match against the Wallabies
Speaker 3: could have gone either way. And then I don't think
Speaker 3: you can read too much into that Japanese game. The
Speaker 3: notable selections for meet Jimmy O'Brien on the left wing.
Speaker 3: I think he will use to try and target the
Speaker 3: air and this is the biggest test of Sam printer
Speaker 3: Gas's career. I think the All Blacks will target him,
Speaker 3: try and pressure his kicking game, but also make work
Speaker 3: him over defensively. And I think there will also be
Speaker 3: true of Ruben Love down that channel. So it'll be
Speaker 3: interesting to see how those two tens stand up. But
Speaker 3: I don't think we'll see any great surprises in the
Speaker 3: way Island play. I think Jameson Gibson Park will will
Speaker 3: hoist to the heavens and they'll look to use their
Speaker 3: their driving more, their line outs. Their short passing game
Speaker 3: is essential to the way they play, and they'll bring
Speaker 3: a lot of line speed on defense, which you'll Blacks
Speaker 3: struggle with against Italy. So yeah, what do you make
Speaker 3: of that pessimism in particular around anecdotally anyway that the
Speaker 3: Irish fans and horrific.
Speaker 2: Is being burned too much by the your Blacks in
Speaker 2: twenty three, that they've gone, we're not the team we
Speaker 2: were in twenty three. Therefore, you know we couldn't win
Speaker 2: in twenty three. We can't do it in twenty four.
Speaker 2: They can't do it in twenty five, can't do it
Speaker 2: in twenty They're still a very very good rugby team,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, but it doesn't feel like that
Speaker 2: they have that same ability that they did have a
Speaker 2: couple of years back.
Speaker 3: No, the one thing I'll say, just listening to Andy
Speaker 3: Farrell this week, I really like him as a coach,
Speaker 3: as a leader. You know, most coaches have come out
Speaker 3: here and asked about Eden Park and the record and
Speaker 3: all that thing. It's just, oh, it's a stadium, it's
Speaker 3: got grass. It's a bit of a non factor. Pharaoh's luck.
Speaker 3: Seize the day, don't have any regrets, you know, let's
Speaker 3: take it head on. I think he'd be very inspiring
Speaker 3: coach to have, so I do like his mentality.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Look, he's a very good coach and it's
Speaker 2: proven that on the world stage and was honest that.
Speaker 2: You know, if this is the opportunity we've got, we've
Speaker 2: got to embrace it and make the most of it.
Speaker 2: And they go on with a chance on the weekend.
Speaker 2: What do you predict might unfold on Saturday night.
Speaker 3: I think it could be squeaky, could be tense. I
Speaker 3: expect the All Blacks to win, but I don't think
Speaker 3: there's a case to be made that Island strike the
Speaker 3: All Blacks and opportune time. They're growing pains under any
Speaker 3: are still evident, they're still learning their game. Developing combinations,
Speaker 3: testing depth. I'm yet to be convinced, and that's probably
Speaker 3: understandable given that the short time that they've had together.
Speaker 3: But I would expect significant improvements from the All Blacks.
Speaker 3: They expect them to win, but I don't think it
Speaker 3: will be comfortable at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying comfortable.
Speaker 2: I think the All Blacks will win by about ten.
Speaker 2: But let's not forget the All Blacks have not lost
Speaker 2: to Ireland since twenty twenty two. So they won of
Speaker 2: the World Cup in twenty three, they won in Dublin
Speaker 2: twenty four. They one in Chicago last year under a
Speaker 2: coach that was booted because they went on the right trajectory.
Speaker 2: Yet they beat the Irish twice under Scott Robinson's Tutelish
Speaker 2: didn't lose them during that period of time. So I
Speaker 2: think it's a little bit on here that I think
Speaker 2: the Irish moments passed and you know there's growing pains
Speaker 2: under Rennie. But I just I still think the All
Speaker 2: Blacks will be good enough to win on Saturday Night.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I just I have an element
Speaker 3: of nerves because of where the All Blacks are at
Speaker 3: in the early stages of Rennie's tenure. I think there's
Speaker 3: a lot of progression needed and there hasn't been a
Speaker 3: lot of time to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite right, Well, we'll see how it gets on
Speaker 2: Saturday night. Look forward to calling it on News Talk
Speaker 2: ZB and iHeartRadio from ten past seven. You can follow
Speaker 2: Lillam's analysis and pieces leading up to the match on inziherld,
Speaker 2: dot co dot nzi there. Thanks to Mark Ali for
Speaker 2: producing and we will see you back here in the
Speaker 2: early part of next week as we look on what
Speaker 2: happens on Saturday night and maybe cast it into the
Speaker 2: South African tour as well. Look forward to seeing you.
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