1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Christ Church City councilors are apparently furious that staff have 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: spent more than six million dollars on developing an app 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: that can't actually be used as an app. It was 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: supposed to be a one stop shop for people to 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: pay their rates and check the water usage and access 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: all council functions, but it is effectively no more than 7 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: a website. Christ Church City Councilor Sam McDonald is back 8 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: with us on this. Hi Sam O, Hi here they 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: how are you? I'm very well. Thank you know, why 10 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: did they not build an app when they were supposed to? 11 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we were pretty clear at the beginning that 12 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: we want something that works for everyone and we want 13 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: the uptake to be as high as it can be, 14 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: and obviously an app ISAs way to do that. So 15 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 2: they've been working away for a couple of years on it. 16 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: That's been quite a bit of money, you know, and 17 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: we have a lot of systems and things like that, 18 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 2: so I kind of get that. But they are at 19 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 2: the point now where they're just trying to see if 20 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: they can adapt it. So they have a concern around 21 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: some of the security issues, but they think they're at 22 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: a point now where they can add it on. So look, 23 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: in a perfect world, it would have been an app 24 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 2: to start with. It hasn't gone live yet the IT 25 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: people or the experts working through it. But yeah, we 26 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: were a bit surprised when it was. When it came 27 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 2: to us saying no, no, it'll be a web version, which, 28 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: as you know a lot of people don't use. We 29 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: need to make it as easy for people as possible. 30 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: Did they explain to you why they were explicitly told 31 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: to build an app and then they built a website. 32 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: Did they explain that to you? 33 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: Well, you know what it's like talking to IT people, 34 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: and I mean that with the greatest respects. Sometimes they 35 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: are very technical in nature. I think largely you know 36 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: that their consume was around security and we have so 37 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 2: many different systems that run you know, we really wanted 38 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: something that means you can book through the pools, through 39 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: the libraries, you can seeing your rubbish pins being picked up, 40 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: your dog registration, your eight spalance. You know, they all 41 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: run off different systems because we have so many different 42 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 2: obviously users across the group. But you know they tell 43 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: us there at a point where they can do it, 44 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: so I guess, you know, in many respects it's not ideal, 45 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: But at the same time, it was good they've come 46 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: to check with us before they went. 47 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: Live, because it's a case Sam, if I'm being generous 48 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: to them, and I'm really not in a mood to 49 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: be generous to counsel stuff that. But isn't this a 50 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: case of them being IT experts and perhaps for them 51 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: the idea of using a website on the phone and 52 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: turning it into like a bit of an app or 53 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: whatever like that is not a massive obstacle for them, 54 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: and perhaps they don't understand what an obstacle it is 55 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: for those of us who are not IT geeks. 56 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: I completely agree. You know, it's all very well for 57 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: people that work in it all day to be able 58 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: to you know, log onto websites somehow save it to 59 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 2: your phone, you know, like you know, I can use 60 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: my phone, but I'm not going to go and do that. 61 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: And the point is, if you're trying to get people 62 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: to engage with the council, make it as easier as possible. 63 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: Then let's make it simple. We spent all this money, 64 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: we just need to do the last but to make 65 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: the uptake huge and so we will get there because 66 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 2: you know, when we met with them last week. We 67 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: were very clear that this thing does not go live 68 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: until I've sorted their problem. And you know, that's the 69 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: value I guess in having councils is because we actually 70 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: interact with people on the street and go. You know, 71 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: they're not interested in going through twenty steps to set 72 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: up a website on their phone. They just want it 73 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 2: to be easy and convenient, and you know they pay 74 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: the rates that should be. 75 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: Now, how is it so expensive? Because this six point 76 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: two million dollars which is what has been sent spent, 77 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: is not even using the budget you guys set aside 78 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: almost twelve million for this project. How can you justify 79 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: something like this costing that much? 80 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's huge, isn't it? Like it's absce is a. 81 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Project Sam that is being done in house? Or have 82 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: you got external consultants doing this? 83 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? So it's a combination. So we've obviously got an 84 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: IT team along with some consultants. But what we've done is, 85 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: you know, obviously there's a budget set. You know, it's 86 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: not a race for them to spend the budget. We 87 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: just want it to be right. So we've said to them, look, 88 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: come up with the way to get. 89 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: No, no, No, that's cool, But Sam, I need to get 90 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: into this with you. Have you guys, have you guys 91 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: done any due diligence on what an app should cost? 92 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: So we found out about this last week. We've asked 93 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: for a review to be done and it's coming. 94 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: What do you mean you found out about it last week? 95 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: Did it not come to you first? 96 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: The six point one million dollars? 97 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: No, that twelve million dollar budget that you guys. 98 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: Ow also that yeah, that was I mean that was 99 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty one. I think Leanne was the 100 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: mere back then. So you know that this has been 101 00:03:58,480 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: going for a while. 102 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: Okay, plenty in one of them. But have you guys 103 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: done any comparisons to see what an app should cost? 104 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: Well? This is this is one of those things. We've 105 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: literally asked for review. So you know, we found out 106 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: about it. We've done as you'd expect as a governance 107 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: group and said this doesn't feel right. We want someone 108 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: to look at it. We've asked the chief executive to 109 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: get that underway and she's working through that at the moment. 110 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 1: Look, I don't want to be like AI is telling 111 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: me everything I know in my life, but we asked 112 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: chat Chat GPT today because we figured this would be 113 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: the fastest way to find it. We asked chat gpt 114 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: what it would cost to replicate the website that you 115 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: guys have had built for six million dollars, and chat 116 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: gpt reckons no more than a million. 117 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 2: Well, that's great. We should be using whoever they're using. 118 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: I mean, look, I'm not an it expert, but from 119 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: our point of view, I want an app that works. 120 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 2: I think the number is extraordinary. I think it's far 121 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: too high. But in the end, what we need to 122 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: do is say we've got a problem. We've literally got 123 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: people looking at it. Now. There's a pause on any 124 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: more spending, but they need to be at a point 125 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: where they can get the app to work, because the 126 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: last thing I want to do is waste the money 127 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: that's been sped and get a service that doesn't get 128 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: taken up by billbacks. Well, I agree with you. It's 129 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: extraordinary and wild. 130 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: It's wild. It's a website. It's not that bloody hard 131 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: like I could get somebody a graduate to build you 132 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: a website probably costs couple of hundred I would be 133 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: slightly exploitative, but you know it wouldn't cost you six 134 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: million Sam, I feel confident that you're in charge of 135 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: the situation, so go well and best of lucky that 136 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: it's christ Church City councilor Sam McDonald. Honestly, is just 137 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: this is just the latest, isn't it. This is just 138 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: the latest example of yet another council that blows money 139 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: because it has no actual, no actual appreciation of the 140 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: value of money. And it's just another example of why 141 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: councils should not have nice things. 142 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 2: Aim for more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive. 143 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays, 144 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.