Speaker 1: Yoda.
Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is a summer special of
Speaker 2: the Front Page, The Enzid Herald's daily news podcast. While
Speaker 2: the Front Page is on summer break, we're taking a
Speaker 2: look back at some of the biggest news stories and
Speaker 2: top rated episodes from the podcast in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: New episodes will return on January thirteenth. Kiwis have left
Speaker 2: New Zealand in record numbers this year. News reports covering
Speaker 2: monthly migration data have repeatedly announced new records of net
Speaker 2: migration loss, with the latest stats from the year to
Speaker 2: September showing seventy nine thousand, seven hundred migrant departures. Just
Speaker 2: over half of those leaving the country moved to Australia,
Speaker 2: while the law of the traditional uk oe is it's
Speaker 2: still taking people to London, but is moving overseas going
Speaker 2: to make your life less expensive? In July, Enzet Herald
Speaker 2: reporter Ben Lay joined us after crunching the numbers to
Speaker 2: see if the grass is really that greener on the
Speaker 2: other side, Ben, let's get some figures on the table
Speaker 2: up front when it comes to New Zealand. What are
Speaker 2: the general averages when it comes to save house prices.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the zed national price according to property analysts
Speaker 3: core Logic is nine hundred and thirty one four hundred
Speaker 3: and thirty eight dollars.
Speaker 2: And what about your weekly rentals and the typical salary
Speaker 2: I guess and householding comes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the national rent at the moment is five hundred
Speaker 3: and seventy three dollars according to core Logic. Again, and
Speaker 3: salaries can be measured in different ways. So in one story,
Speaker 3: we measured the household incomes and the ENDZ national household
Speaker 3: income is one hundred and two thousand dollars six hundred
Speaker 3: and ninety. We did that with the inflation calculator, So
Speaker 3: we took a twenty twenty one figure and we added
Speaker 3: salary inflation onto it to come up with that.
Speaker 2: And we're talking about these because so many kiwis are
Speaker 2: flocking overseas, right, how many people are actually moving to,
Speaker 2: say the UK or Australia.
Speaker 3: Sure, So, Stats and Z just released new figures this
Speaker 3: week and the sort of backdated figures they're a bit older,
Speaker 3: but it was for twenty twenty three and they found
Speaker 3: that twenty seven thousand more kiwis went to Australia.
Speaker 4: Then came back the other way.
Speaker 3: Now that is a lot, and between twenty fourteen and
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen we only had about three thousand more kiwis
Speaker 3: going across the Tasman But before that, thirty thousand people
Speaker 3: per year was about the average for the five years
Speaker 3: back before twenty fourteen, so it's not record highs, but
Speaker 3: it's definitely big.
Speaker 1: Well, the numbers are beginning to trend up because what
Speaker 1: was interesting during COVID was we had a net gain
Speaker 1: from Australia and that's very unusual in their history. So
Speaker 1: for most years in the last thirty years, we've seen
Speaker 1: a net loss. So we're going back to what has
Speaker 1: been an historical hatter.
Speaker 2: So let's go through both Australia and the UK topic
Speaker 2: by topic. How do house prices compare for people looking
Speaker 2: to really settle down in either country?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Sure, Well, let's put it in simple terms. London is
Speaker 3: the most expensive, so it's almost say a beast onto
Speaker 3: itself if the house prices is just way in excess
Speaker 3: of Australia and New Zealand cities pretty much because it's
Speaker 3: like a world city Rome. But when you take that
Speaker 3: out of the picture, I'm sorry to say, but New
Speaker 3: Zealand house prices are clearly the next highest, which is
Speaker 3: it's hard to sort of.
Speaker 4: Stomach, isn't it.
Speaker 3: But then beyond that, maybe then you've got Australian house
Speaker 3: prices and then the UK excluding London for those.
Speaker 2: Younger kiwi's, maybe those looking to do an OWI for
Speaker 2: a few years or a couple of years, how does
Speaker 2: the rental market compare.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so once again kiwis heading to London.
Speaker 3: Rental prices are really expensive in London compared to Australia
Speaker 3: and New Zealand. So just for insane since London's typical
Speaker 3: weekly rent is one thousand dollars in the latest figures
Speaker 3: that we had, and you know, by comparison, Auckland's about
Speaker 3: six hundred and thirty six, So when you take London
Speaker 3: out of the picture, then it's actually fairly even the
Speaker 3: prices between all three countries.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's a bit of a mix.
Speaker 3: But Australia may be a little bit more expensive than
Speaker 3: New Zealand and the UK toranting.
Speaker 2: And the UK gets cheaper the further out you get
Speaker 2: from those big cities. Hey, much like New Zealand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, if you pretty much head north out of London,
Speaker 3: it starts to get cheaper, especially places like Sheffield, Liverpool
Speaker 3: and Leeds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot cheaper than in London.
Speaker 2: And we all know anecdotally that the big draw card
Speaker 2: for going overseas is for the biggest salaries.
Speaker 4: Do the stats.
Speaker 3: Actually support that definitely in the case of Australia, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think in one of the stories where we compared
Speaker 3: New Zealand household income compared to the Australian states, and
Speaker 3: it's pretty much below most of the Australian states. So
Speaker 3: if you take the Australian Capital Territory, we worked out
Speaker 3: that the household income there was one hundred and forty
Speaker 3: four thousand dollars per year and by comparison, New Zealand's
Speaker 3: was one hundred thousand dollars per year.
Speaker 6: Will the under twenties are eight percent better off in
Speaker 6: New Zealand. At every other age group the difference grows
Speaker 6: to about twenty percent in the favor of Australia. Adding
Speaker 6: fuel to the fire, Let's also consider that Australian employers
Speaker 6: at eleven percent of super on top of these wages, well,
Speaker 6: in New Zealand we get a poultry three percent clearly
Speaker 6: with the best available data from both countries governments. Australia
Speaker 6: has more money to offer kiwis of all age groups.
Speaker 3: Just anecdotally, There's one person we spoke to was a
Speaker 3: maths teacher. So he went from Hamilton across to Melbourne
Speaker 3: in Victoria and his salary jumps thirty one thousand dollars
Speaker 3: just by catching the flight basically, so he was a
Speaker 3: fourth year maths teacher. He's getting paid seventy thousand dollars
Speaker 3: in Hamilton. Then when he went to Victoria, he's salary
Speaker 3: jumped up to ninety one thousand dollar plus superneration which
Speaker 3: took it to one hundred.
Speaker 4: And one thousand dollars in total.
Speaker 3: And then when you look at some of the police
Speaker 3: campaigns that have been going on. Last year, the Northern
Speaker 3: Territory Police launched a very high profile campaign to get
Speaker 3: KIWI cops. It was to live in more remote parts
Speaker 3: of the Northern Territory, but yeah, it was still up
Speaker 3: to sixty thousand dollars higher than some police salaries here
Speaker 3: in New Zealand. And just in terms of who might
Speaker 3: be going, police are actively recruiting, especially people in like
Speaker 3: healthcare doctors, nurses and even just on the weekend, I
Speaker 3: was speaking to a police officer who is from South
Speaker 3: Auckland and he just said that he thought there was
Speaker 3: up to eighty police from South Auckland that had headed
Speaker 3: over to Australia in the last six months he migrated
Speaker 3: from India. At some stage he's got a new baby
Speaker 3: with his newly married wife, or he's expecting he's one
Speaker 3: month off having his new baby. So you can imagine
Speaker 3: the sort of pressures on someone like that when house
Speaker 3: prices are so high in Auckland about why it might
Speaker 3: be attractive to go across the Tasman.
Speaker 2: Now is actually a pretty good time to bring up
Speaker 2: the fact that you will be able to tell from
Speaker 2: my accent, maybe not from yours, Ben, but we are
Speaker 2: both Australian and you know the irony is not lost
Speaker 2: on us for us too speaking about this topic.
Speaker 4: A Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: And you know, I feel like, having done a few
Speaker 3: of these stories now that maybe Victoria Police Orthern Territory
Speaker 3: Police should be paying me a little bit of commission
Speaker 3: for all these people we're helping sand across the Tasman. Right,
Speaker 3: We're here making the sacrifices on lower salaries just to
Speaker 3: boost Australia with all these talented Kiwis.
Speaker 4: We just love our job so much, that's all. When
Speaker 4: we love New Zealand so much.
Speaker 2: The UK, it's perhaps surprising to see that the opportunity
Speaker 2: for huge incomes isn't as glorious as it may seem.
Speaker 2: What if people you've spoken to said about the lifestyle
Speaker 2: and cost of living there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: So yeah, in the stories for both moving to Australia
Speaker 3: and the UK, we actually talked to the people running
Speaker 3: those Facebook groups that help people move. So Kiwi's moving
Speaker 3: to Victoria and kiwis in London, and so the guy
Speaker 3: who's running Kiwi's in London, he was saying it's great
Speaker 3: for certain skills, you know, like trade's. He called it
Speaker 3: actually a paradise for trades in the UK at the moment.
Speaker 3: Nanny's sort of tried and true job for kiwis moving
Speaker 3: across to the UK, and he said there's great money
Speaker 3: to do live in workers a nanny. Other jobs not
Speaker 3: so easy if you're looking to be a receptionist or administrator.
Speaker 3: He said, there's lots of competition. You know, in Auckland
Speaker 3: you might face you know a couple of thousand people
Speaker 3: looking for the same job.
Speaker 4: It can be millions in London.
Speaker 3: On the other side of it, you know, there's always
Speaker 3: professionals that go to London and it's like a magnetic
Speaker 3: lure for them. They're going there for big salaries already,
Speaker 3: you know, they're highly trained and they can progress their careers.
Speaker 3: We talked to one couple. They're called Danny and Lee
Speaker 3: mackenzie and they've been living in roode Rud. Danielle's a
Speaker 3: librarian and Lee's a musician and when COVID sort of
Speaker 3: dried up the musical opportunities for Lee in Rhodorud, that
Speaker 3: together with the cost of leaving pressures and the fact
Speaker 3: that Lee has a British citizenship encouraged them just to
Speaker 3: go and try their luck over there. So they've moved
Speaker 3: over to Sheffield in the sort of mid northwest of
Speaker 3: the UK and they're getting on great. Like Dannie al
Speaker 3: was saying, there's just not much opportunity to progress as
Speaker 3: the library here because there's not many libraries. And when
Speaker 3: she got there, she's now in charge of three out
Speaker 3: of fifteen libraries in her local district.
Speaker 4: She's close to.
Speaker 3: Famous libraries and Lee is singing at beer festivals and
Speaker 3: in the pub scene, and yeah, they're both thriving, and
Speaker 3: they're on salaries equal or better to New Zealand and
Speaker 3: cheaper rent.
Speaker 2: What are the supermarket and fuel prices like in both
Speaker 2: Australia and the UK. We've got to give these kids
Speaker 2: moving to London some relief.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you move to London then that's
Speaker 3: definitely your favorite. The supermarkets are a lot cheaper from
Speaker 3: what we've seen in what people say an acdotally, one
Speaker 3: person who just moved from the Herald across the London
Speaker 3: was saying Kiwi fruit is cheaper in London and dairy is,
Speaker 3: which is sort of hard to understand. Dairy in particular
Speaker 3: can be three quarters or even half the price in
Speaker 3: the UK to hear. Australia is also we found was
Speaker 3: also a bit cheaper countdown compared to all words, but
Speaker 3: the costs less pronounced. And then when it comes to petrol,
Speaker 3: Australia is the cheapest and z comes in next, and
Speaker 3: then the UK I think feeling sort of geopolitical pressures,
Speaker 3: having a bit of a fuel crisis with gas prices
Speaker 3: going up.
Speaker 5: Petrol hitting an average of one hundred and fifty point
Speaker 5: one pence a liter, that's the highest it's been since November,
Speaker 5: and diesel hitting one hundred and fifty eight point three
Speaker 5: pence a liter. Why the spike.
Speaker 4: Well, when we woke.
Speaker 5: Up to news of those missiles in Iran on Friday,
Speaker 5: the price of oil sword temporarily and despite that settling,
Speaker 5: we are feeling those echoes at the pumps, combined with
Speaker 5: a weeker pound compared to the dollar.
Speaker 3: And then just anecdotally some of the things about Australia.
Speaker 3: There has been some mention about childcare being more expensive.
Speaker 3: Kiwis in Australia don't have access to as much services
Speaker 3: as Australians in New Zealand do, so that's some of
Speaker 3: the sort of hidden challenges when you move over there.
Speaker 2: And I've seen some comments under your articles with people
Speaker 2: talking about taxes, fees and the like. Are there any
Speaker 2: hidden costs that came up in your research in either country?
Speaker 3: Yeah, taxes is important, but we didn't look into it
Speaker 3: too closely for these stories, so I can't really say
Speaker 3: too much about that.
Speaker 4: Hidden costs.
Speaker 3: Like I mentioned earlier, childcare is one that just came
Speaker 3: up a lot in Australia.
Speaker 4: UK sort of petrol prices.
Speaker 3: Actually, I should say in Australia, buying a car is
Speaker 3: something that comes up a lot. So while the petrol
Speaker 3: might be cheaper, most people talked about buying a car
Speaker 3: as being quite a lot more expensive.
Speaker 2: When you look at the numbers like this, it does
Speaker 2: seem like, particularly in Australia, there are some slightly better
Speaker 2: opportunities over there. Would you agree And do you think
Speaker 2: the New Zealand government needs to do anything to address
Speaker 2: this to try and kind of stop people flocking overseas
Speaker 2: for greener pastures.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a tough one. I mean, the key one
Speaker 4: is salaries.
Speaker 3: Everyone I spoke to almost that went to Australia is
Speaker 3: just talking about salaries.
Speaker 4: They just tend to be so much higher.
Speaker 3: And when you take the higher salary and compare it
Speaker 3: to house prices, it just makes a really tough pressure
Speaker 3: on locals here, especially in Auckland and other major cities
Speaker 3: in New Zealand. So it's difficult for the government to
Speaker 3: improve those things. As a property reporter, I almost argue
Speaker 3: that government has very little impact over the housing markets,
Speaker 3: so it's difficult for them to do anything substantial to
Speaker 3: bring down house prices In terms of salaries. Often it
Speaker 3: goes back to sort of productivity and opportunities, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: So I guess I really feel that if the government
Speaker 3: can focus on things to help productivity, more job opportunities,
Speaker 3: boost salaries, anything they can do to im roofhouse prices,
Speaker 3: and probably more importantly, a lot of things around infrastructure
Speaker 3: and just daily life, you know, so that people enjoy
Speaker 3: living here and don't feel the pressures of the costs
Speaker 3: as much because they're enjoying a really nice life.
Speaker 2: Do you have any thoughts on moving back to Ossie.
Speaker 3: I've married someone who is on the path to New
Speaker 3: Zealand citizenship, which he's just achieved, so we're not sure yet.
Speaker 3: That was sort of the main plan was to stick
Speaker 3: around for her citizenship, and I guess we'll be here
Speaker 3: for a while yet and after that not sure, but
Speaker 3: it's always a pull back for your own family and
Speaker 3: maybe the sunshine a bit warmer.
Speaker 4: But you're from Melbourne, aren't you. Yeah, yeah, that's a
Speaker 4: bit of a stretch. Yeah, that is a little bit
Speaker 4: of a Thanks for joining us, Ben, Thank you, Chelsea.
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 2: at enzed Herald dot co dot nzages produced by Ethan
Speaker 2: Siles with sound engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe
Speaker 2: to the front page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get
Speaker 2: your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind
Speaker 2: the headlines.