1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: CHIELDA. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: daily podcast. 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: Presented by the New Zealand Herald. 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: A local election begins today in Auckland. Though you're probably 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 2: not even aware, three hundred and sixty four thousand Auckland 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: households and businesses can vote this month for the trust 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 2: board that runs en Trust. 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: If this name. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: Sounds familiar to Auckland's, it's because the majority shareholder of 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: Victor dishes out dividend payments to eligible electricity account holders 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: every year. Yet very few of us actually vote in 13 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: these elections, with voter turnout hitting single digits in twenty 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: twenty one. Today, on the front page, Herald's senior writer 15 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: Simon Wilson. 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Is with us to us why you should be paying attention. 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: Simon, First off, can you explain to me what intrust 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 2: actually is, because all I know is that I get 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: a three hundred and fifty bucks a year. 20 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 3: It's a ridiculously complicated situation, and that's one of the 21 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 3: problems that these things should be easy. It's a trust. 22 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 3: It's a community trust, which means that the customers who 23 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 3: are the people who use the lines that deliver power 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 3: to Auckland are the owners of the trust. Intrust used 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: to be called the Auckland Energy Consumer Trust. They changed 26 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 3: their name to the Snappier In Trust a few years ago, 27 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 3: and it owns the company that owns the lines. The 28 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: lines company is Vector. So if you look at your 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 3: power bill, you'll see there's a component in that. If 30 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 3: you get it from Mercury, say, there's a component in 31 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: that that says the lines charged from Vector is whatever 32 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 3: it is. Intrust owns most of Vector. There are no 33 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 3: other large scale owners of Vector. So interests and effect 34 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 3: owns Vector. And because it's a trust, it has to 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 3: have elections for its trust board, the trustees, and they 36 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: come along every three years. 37 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: Why are electricity users considered investors? 38 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: How did that come about? 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 3: Well, it goes all the way back to the fact 40 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: that in this country power energy and electricity used to 41 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 3: be state owned. So in the process of the government 42 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 3: divesting its ownership of the whole power system in the 43 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: eighties and nineties, we ended up with some consumer trusts 44 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 3: and that was part of the way of saying okay, 45 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 3: private investors and come in, they can own this and 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: they can do what they want with these things. But 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 3: there will still be community ownership. So that's why there 48 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: are community trusts. En Trust is the big one in Auckland, 49 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 3: but there are other community trusts related to the Lin's 50 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 3: companies in other parts of the country. 51 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: You mentioned elections. 52 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: How often do they happen and why should auckland Is 53 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: be paying attention? 54 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: The elections happen every three years and the way in 55 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: which they are set up at the moment. Every year, 56 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: the Interrust Board for men years now has paid a 57 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: dividend to its beneficiary, so that's us the power will payers. 58 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: It pays that dividend, and shortly after it pays the 59 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 3: dividend on a three year cycle, we get a chance 60 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 3: to vote for them to do it again. 61 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: I don't suppose many people know about these elections. I 62 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: suppose what has voter turnout been like in the past. 63 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: Six years ago, voter turnout was a low seventeen percent. 64 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: Three years ago it dropped to nine percent. And one 65 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: of the issues around the election this time is that 66 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: you would think that people in charge of the elections 67 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 3: and effectively that is the existing trustees who were elected 68 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: in last time, you would think they'd be worried about 69 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 3: that low turnout, and you would think they would do 70 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 3: something to grow the numbers better, advertising that kind of thing. 71 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 3: They do nothing, almost nothing. So we have this very 72 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: low turnout and that suits the people who are there 73 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 3: because they got elected last time on a low turnout. 74 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 3: By and large, they are voters from the Auckland's eastern suburbs, 75 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 3: from Uera, epsom Cohimatmer, et cetera. They are a well held, 76 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 3: high voting lot compared to the rest of the city, 77 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 3: and the Entrust trustees who've been elected by those people 78 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 3: appear to be quite happy for that to continue. 79 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: Well should it continue? 80 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: Have they? Have? 81 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: They been doing a good job simon. 82 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: Well, it depends how you look at it. Let's look 83 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 3: firstly at the money. Intrust has been paying this dividend 84 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 3: to the bill payers for a long time now. In 85 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 3: two thousand and six, which is when the current structure 86 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 3: was established, the dividend was three hundred and ten dollars 87 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 3: every year. Thereafter, for the next six years it fell 88 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 3: in real terms, then it grew for a little bit, 89 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 3: but from twenty eighteen it's been falling and falling in 90 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 3: real terms, so that three hundred and ten dollars in 91 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 3: two thousand and six nearly twenty years ago is now 92 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty dollars this year. If you look 93 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: at the effect of inflation, if you use the Reserve 94 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: Banks calculator and put three hundred and ten dollars in 95 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 3: two thousand and six into the calculator and see what 96 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: it should be worth now, they should be paying US 97 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 3: four hundred and eighty three dollars, not three hundred and fifty. 98 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 3: So actually the dividend has been declining in real terms, 99 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 3: and in my own view that's a bit of a 100 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: scandal that it's reducing and reducing and reducing. 101 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: Once a year intrust beneficiaries receive dividends. Dividend day, you know, 102 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 2: is the invalope that makes you say yes, freaksh cheers 103 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: and trust. 104 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: Have they given any explanation for that? 105 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 3: Well. Power is difficult and complex, but at the same time, 106 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 3: of course, our power bills are going up. They're going 107 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: to go up significantly next year, we're told by the industry, 108 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 3: and the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment have advised 109 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: the government they're going to go up next year and 110 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 3: the year after. So we're getting a declining dividend and 111 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: rising power bills. It's pretty unsatisfactory situation. 112 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: So the communities and residents teke At have run the 113 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 2: board for as long as it's been a thing. Are 114 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 2: they promising to do anything differently? Or do they want 115 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: to keep things as is? 116 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 4: Well? 117 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: They're not that. They promote themselves on the basis of 118 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: we give you three hundred and fifty bucks this year. 119 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 3: Their billboards say three hundred and fifty dollars safe with 120 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: cn R. CNR is the national party in Auckland, and 121 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 3: they're very comfortable with that being the key thing that 122 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 3: they do. And you've got to say, actually, that doesn't 123 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 3: look like good business practice. These are business people, now, 124 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 3: experienced business people. But if this is an ordinary company, 125 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 3: ordinary shareholders would almost certainly not be at all happy 126 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 3: with that return. 127 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: Who are the other players here? What are they promising? 128 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 3: So there are seven other candidates. Two of them are independents, 129 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: one of them is a former c and R trustee 130 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 3: who fell out with the group and is now standing 131 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: against them. And then the remaining five belong to a 132 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: group called More for You, Better for Auckland, Better for Short. 133 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: They are largely aligned or sympathetic to labor slash green politics. 134 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: So that you've got straight on the left and on 135 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: the right split in this election. Thus, those two independents 136 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 3: and the Better Group argue that there should be a 137 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: better dividend. They argue power prices shouldn't be going up 138 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 3: so much, and they have a proposal to address both 139 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: those issues and at the same time increase security of 140 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: supply because Aucklanders will know that when the wind blows, 141 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: the power loans are in trouble, and that happens over 142 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: and over in the city. Of course, a security is 143 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: supply and at the same time also lower our emissions 144 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: because our power grid at the moment is dependent on 145 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 3: colon gas for a proportion of the power that is supplied. 146 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 3: So what the Better Group is saying is why don't 147 00:07:51,320 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 3: we roll out solar energy on rooftops. 148 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 2: A little under a month ago, those people who are 149 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: eligible to vote received their dividend from Intrust. I've read 150 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: your piece in the Herald this week and see you're 151 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: not very happy about the timing of this. 152 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's extraordinary. Effectively, what happens is that 153 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: the sitting members of the Trust board pay people, advertise 154 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: the fact that they've paid you, and then ask for 155 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 3: your vote. It's impossible to imagine that that would be 156 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 3: acceptable in a general election or a council election in 157 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 3: the main ways in which we exercise democracy in this country. 158 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 3: But they're allowed. It's not illegal. They're doing it legally, 159 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: But in my own view, it's far far from ethical. 160 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: Well, could national crow from the rooftops that they gave 161 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: us a tax cut and then ask for our vote? 162 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: Is it not the same thing? 163 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you can call that a bribe in 164 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 3: a loose sense, but you've got to put that in 165 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: the context that there's a full blown political debate that 166 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 3: goes on in general elections about how much we should 167 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,239 Speaker 3: be taxed, where the money should be spent, who's responsible 168 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 3: for what, all of those things. So you can put 169 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 3: that into that larger debate and say, okay, even if 170 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 3: you think it's wrong to promise people tax cuts for 171 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 3: their vote, at the same time, there is a big 172 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 3: political debate about it. That's very different from the entrust situation, 173 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 3: where almost the only thing that anybody knows about Terrust, 174 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 3: if they know anything at all, is oh, that's the 175 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: group that gave me three hundred and fifty bucks, full stop, 176 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 3: whereas the better people are saying, actually, that's just a 177 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: red hearing that should be bigger, that your powerbles should 178 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: be lower, and if we had a roll out of 179 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 3: solar we would have made a significant difference to security 180 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 3: supply and lowering emissions. 181 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: Well, I will say that when I googled Entrust Elections 182 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: while researching this episode, the top result is, of course 183 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 2: the en Trust site, and when you click on the 184 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: Entrust Elections link, a big, massive pop up ad about 185 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: the three undred and fifty dollars dividend does appear. 186 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: And when I say big pop up for that, doesn't 187 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: it absolutely feel you have seen it? 188 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like shameless. 189 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you think this country is so resistant 190 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 2: to installing solar panels? 191 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: And how could and trust change this? 192 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 3: It's really interesting, isn't it, Because we've had some poor 193 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 3: experiences in the past. Solar was hard to install, some 194 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 3: of the equipment wasn't very reliable, batteries were expensive, and 195 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 3: the memory of all that kind of thing lingers, and 196 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 3: there's a whole bunch of people who think it just 197 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 3: won't work, just how could it work? What we are 198 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 3: lucky about in Auckland is that we can look across 199 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: the Tasman at Australia Australia has around about thirty five 200 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: percent of its rooftops now have solar panels on them, 201 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 3: many with batteries. Now that statistic doesn't just apply in 202 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 3: Queensland or wherever the sunshines all the time. It applies 203 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: in Melbourne. Melbourne has about the same amount of sunshine 204 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 3: hours a year as Auckland, very very similar. Melbourne has 205 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 3: thirty five percent of its roofs have sola on them, 206 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 3: and that's because they have incentivized people to buy the equipment, 207 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: or they have made it possible for people to lease it, 208 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: or that the power companies themselves have retained ownership and 209 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: given people the use of it. Those models are all 210 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: available in Auckland, all available to interest, and could really 211 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: change the game here. It would mean that there's an 212 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 3: organization that has done the numbers on this. It could 213 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: mean that you might pay as little as a sixth 214 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 3: of your current power pill thirty four cents of Killer 215 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 3: what hour at the moment, down to six cents killer 216 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 3: what hour. If you were paying off the loan to 217 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 3: get the equipment, it might be twelve cents an hour. 218 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 3: That's phenomenally different from what we currently have. So we 219 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: could have lower power pills and be doing our bit 220 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 3: for the planet and have more security of supply. Because 221 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: of course, in a storm, though it's possible your solar 222 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 3: panels won't work, might get blown off the roof, that's 223 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 3: not really likely. It's far far less likely than a 224 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: tree bringing down the powerlights. You just wouldn't have that 225 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 3: worry anymore. 226 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 4: Unplanned power rateagues are never fun, especially during a storm. 227 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 4: It's stressful for everyone involved. Everything Vector does during an 228 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 4: outage is to keep our crews and you safe and 229 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 4: to get the lights back on as quickly as possible. 230 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 5: Getting rid of power poles helps prevent serious accidents, It 231 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 5: makes our grid more resilient to storms and other natural 232 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 5: disasters wells, and it keeps our cydewalks free for people. 233 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 2: And so how can Entrust help facilitate this? Can they 234 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: offer subsidies alone? 235 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: Yes, they can. They can set it up so that 236 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 3: they can provide the financial incentives and support for this 237 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 3: to happen. And it's not just domestic, aren't they. I 238 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: mean you could do it for your own roof, and 239 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 3: if you're flatting your land or could do it, or 240 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 3: you could get your land or to do it. But 241 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 3: it's also community groups like schools and maria and sports 242 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: clubs and community halls and so on could all do it. 243 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 3: And then industrial buildings. So you think about when you 244 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 3: fly into Auckland, there's hectores and hectares of empty white 245 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 3: rus they could all have solar on them. That would 246 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: make a massive difference. Entrust calculates they could build a 247 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 3: bigger connected plant of distributed energy on those commercial roofs, 248 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 3: bigger than Huntly, bigger than any of the South Lonlond dams. 249 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: Would that mean the end of our dividends though each year? 250 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 3: No, it wouldn't. 251 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: It wouldn't. 252 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 3: No, it wouldn't know because now, why aren't they doing it? 253 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: Simon? 254 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 3: It is such a good question, And I don't know 255 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 3: the answer to that except that there's an enormous resistance 256 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 3: to change, and there's enormous resistance to the idea that 257 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 3: we should be doing anything except for what is working 258 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 3: for those trustees at the moment. And that's a problem 259 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: for this country and lots of areas, and in this 260 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 3: particular area, it's a really massive problem when you think 261 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 3: about it in terms of what are we going to 262 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 3: do about growing climate crisis. Dunedan's just experienced at Pauling flooding. 263 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 3: That's the latest. We know that. It just happens and 264 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 3: happens and happens in this country and in other countries 265 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 3: much worse. America's about to get its biggest cyclone. They 266 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 3: think the century or is it ever extraordinary? There? We 267 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: do have to change. We do have to actually do 268 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: something about our emissions. We do have to do something 269 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 3: about the resilience of our infrastructure so that it's not 270 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 3: so subject to being damaged and taken out by storms. 271 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: We do have to do these things. And if we 272 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: can do them in a way that will end up 273 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 3: being cheaper for us, how fantastic that would be. 274 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: Well, what are the downsides of installing solar panel though. 275 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 3: Well, if you like the look of your roof now 276 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 3: and you don't think it will look so good with 277 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 3: solar panels on it, then I guess that might be 278 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 3: a downside. 279 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: But in terms of the kind of debate sigmen, I 280 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 2: can see the other side of cycle lanes, right. We 281 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: love our cars, we love our space and our roads. 282 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: Cycle lanes equals drama. But solar panels, what is the negative? 283 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 3: What is It's not transactional? Is it in any way, 284 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: and it's the other side of it. Of course, we 285 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 3: don't have a large scale solar panel industry in this 286 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 3: country at the moment, doesn't mean we can't build one. 287 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: Australia has an enormous one, the world leader, isn't it. 288 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: Well. 289 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 2: I can remember that those subsidies coming through even when 290 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: I lived in Australia, so ten fifteen years ago. 291 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: So we're very well behind, which we sure are. 292 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: And we like to think that Australia are nasty coal mining, 293 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: which is true of course, but actually if you look 294 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: at what Australia has done there, it is massively significant. 295 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 3: And you think about the hundreds and hundreds of jobs 296 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 3: that could be created in Auckland and then roll it 297 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 3: out nationwide. Then they're good jobs. There's skilled jobs, and 298 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: they're going. 299 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 2: To go on. Do you think in the wake of, 300 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: like we said before, the severe weather events of last year, 301 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: and of course what's happening in the US at the moment, 302 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: we need to look at undergrounding more of the power network, 303 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: regardless of who gets in. 304 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 3: Undergrounding is a complicated issue, firstly because it's expensive. Secondly 305 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 3: because retrofitting undergrounding, taking out the wires and digging up 306 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 3: the streets and putting in. 307 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: The underground's disruptive. 308 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: It's incredibly disruptive. So the expense in the disruption make 309 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: it a difficult prospect. New subdivisions, new areas of housing 310 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 3: should definitely have undergrounded lines, and that is largely what 311 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: happens now. But if you're talking about existing suburbs, there's 312 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: a massive operation which would be extremely expensive, will go 313 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: straight on your power bill. And also underground lines are harder, 314 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 3: of course to service because they're hard to get it. 315 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: And you know what would be cheaper and better, Oh. 316 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. Actually it's called solility. 317 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: So simon, how are we going to make people care 318 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: about this election, regardless of who they want to vote for? 319 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's not just our job, I guess 320 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 3: to make people care. I would like to think that 321 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: people were listening and reading the newspaper and thinking about 322 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: these things, and I would like to think there was 323 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 3: growing media attention. This week, the voting papers will be 324 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 3: arriving in Aucklander's letterboxes and they're only going to get 325 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 3: a couple of weeks, a very short period time to voters. Well, 326 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 3: so hopefully it'll all ramp up over the next couple 327 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 3: of weeks. And I guess I should also say it's 328 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 3: not the whole of Auckland. Older listeners will know the 329 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 3: old Auckland City Council and old Monacow Council and Papakura 330 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 3: District Board areas. That's who it covers. So that's mainly 331 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 3: isthmus Auckland from Avondale all the way out to the 332 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: Perth of Thames and from Otahou North up to the 333 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: Harbor Bridge. 334 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Simon. That said, for this episode 335 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: of the Front Page. You can read more about today's 336 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: stories and extensive news coverage at anzat Herald dot co 337 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Seals 338 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: with sound engineer Patty Fox. 339 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 340 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 341 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune 342 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: In tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.