1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: How is Lester Levy, the new Health Commissioner, going to 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: start this gargantuine mess and deal with it that involves 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: a budget blowout of allegedly one hundred and thirty million 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: dollars per month, and given the pushback we've seen since 5 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: the government made the announcement on Monday, what's real and 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: what's politics? Lester Levy is with us. Very good morning 7 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: to you. 8 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: Good morning. 9 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: Article in the Herald this morning by Andrew Little, you'll 10 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: know the name Health New Zealand Board sacked. Reform shouldn't 11 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: be this bad or hard? Does he have a point 12 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: or are you finding a little bit harder than he did? I? 13 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 2: Look, here's a point. At any change, particularly significant change, 14 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: is extremely difficult and often isn't as successful as most 15 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 2: people would hope. 16 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: Are we any better or worse off than the last 17 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: forty years of which I've been in this industry interviewing 18 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: people like you talking about the problems and health being 19 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: a mess? 20 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that in many ways for OURDA or 21 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: find me, you know, there's memmial things that can be 22 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: done for patients comes to become a lot better, But 23 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: there is often a lot of change to institutional arrangements 24 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: and policies, and I think that's difficult to manage. But 25 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: my approach is that's simply I need to deal with 26 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: the cards that I have been dealt with, as sorry 27 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 2: dealt and then I need to make the most of 28 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: those and try to get help. Is even to or 29 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: again in a shape to move forward. 30 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: The best thing I've heard from you since you've got 31 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: this job is you said, we don't need any more money. So, 32 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: for clarification's sake, at thirty ish billion dollars for health, 33 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: we have what we need. It's just how we do it. 34 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: Is that fair? 35 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's fair, But that's in context I'm 36 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: talking about right now, we have an overspending problem and 37 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: not an underfunding problem. We need to resolve this because 38 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: if you don't do that, then when more money comes 39 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: in from the government, on behalf to tax it. There's 40 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: many simply goes to fund efficits. It doesn't actually fund 41 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: additional health services. So if you have a look at 42 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: our situation, we've got one hundred and thirty million a 43 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: month over spend. We don't have a one point four 44 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: billion dollar hole. I think that's a little inaccurate. But 45 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: if we don't do something about this now. By July, sorry, 46 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: by journey the next year we end of our financial 47 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: yet we will have a one point four billion dollar hole, 48 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: and so we need to arrest this situation so we 49 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: don't spend. We have got about a one point four 50 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: seven billion uplift increase in our fundingbers here, and if 51 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: we don't solve this that increase to provide additional services 52 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 2: and to aggress the inforation issues, that'll simply fund their fist. 53 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: So that's why I'm saying it is contextual. We need 54 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: to get in physical control in place, and we need 55 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: to be efficient and effective, and we need to get 56 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: our product, you know. And at that point in time, 57 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: then if we present that we can perform, that's when 58 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: the discussion about how much more or if we need, 59 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: but we should do the most other the resources we 60 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: currently have. 61 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: Let's keep this as simple as we can. Are there 62 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: fourteen layers of management. 63 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: There's different answers to those questions. I think a small 64 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 2: hospital there's seven layers between a nurse, for example, and 65 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 2: the chief executive. In a bigger hospital it could be ten, 66 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 2: and in some other areas it could be twelve. 67 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: Any excuse for that. 68 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the way the organization has been structured. 69 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: I personally think that the organization looks more like a 70 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: public sector agency and a health delivery organization, and that's 71 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: a big part of my intent to use the resources. 72 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: We have so that well direct. But is that part 73 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: of the problem with the board? So when a government 74 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: appoints a board, if a certain government of a certain 75 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: ideology appoints a board, they'll look at twelve layers and go, well, 76 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: this is my whole life. This is all I've ever 77 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: seen this as normal as a person who comes in 78 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: from the outside and goes, this is ridiculous. Is that 79 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: part of the problem. 80 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean I don't really wish to criticize 81 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: because I know hard difiicult this, but it's different perspectives. 82 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: But I do think if our objective is to give 83 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: as much health delivery to patients, families and communities, and 84 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: we need this organization to look like a health delivery organization, 85 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: marshall adds much of our resource to the front line 86 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: and have as d elocracy as possible. And I don't 87 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: think that's a situation right now, and going to address 88 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 2: that situation so it can empower the clinical front line 89 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 2: to deliver war services to patients, families, and communities. 90 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: I read apiece yesterday suggesting a lot of the blowout 91 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: that one thirty million per month was of the extraordinary 92 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: success in recruiting nurses. Is that true? 93 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: That is in part, it's not all of the problem, 94 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: but there have been an incredible succession of recruiting nurses 95 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: and we have many more nursing full time equivers. Then 96 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: we're in the original budget. The other and that's also 97 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: a factor now, is labor markets have changed. It finally 98 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: has changed, and the turnover rate in the organization, you know, 99 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: people eating, that has reduced quite a lot. So we're 100 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 2: never budgets are made. There's an assumption about that, So 101 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: that's another factor. But yes, we do have more clinical 102 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 2: ft either we've had before. 103 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: Good. So if we go down the track that Retty 104 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: and you were talking about, which is frontline versus back office, 105 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: you don't actually have one hundred and thirty billion dollar 106 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: blowout because a million dollar blowout because in hiring nurses, 107 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: that was good expenditure that you want because we need nurses, 108 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: isn't it. 109 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: It is good expenditure because we're do clinical stuff that 110 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: we need to address other parts of the organization so 111 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: we don't have that constant over expenditure because we just 112 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: cannot be an a situation. 113 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: I don't want to ever simplify this, but could you 114 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: wade through the fat and simply find one hundred and 115 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: thirty million dollars a month by sacking a few people 116 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: who aren't doing enough well? 117 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: I think there's going to be multi dumb mentional that 118 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: we will everything that we need to do in order 119 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: to get the expense out of control, but to protect 120 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: the clinical frontline. And when I'm in clinical frontline, that 121 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: includes administrative staff at their clinical line, or people who 122 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: are cleaning and people are providing food. Anything that's to 123 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: do with the clchinical frontline will be protected. Everything else 124 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: we will be looking at where we can reduce costs. 125 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: Good stuff and go well with it. Let's de leading, 126 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: Who's the new Zealand Health Commissioner US For more from 127 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd 128 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.