1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:13,027 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB Cricket. 3 00:00:13,067 --> 00:00:15,587 Speaker 2: We go though at ten past one. The black Caps 4 00:00:15,587 --> 00:00:19,147 Speaker 2: starting to build some next generation depth. I made the 5 00:00:19,147 --> 00:00:21,907 Speaker 2: point on the show yesterday that it is now possible 6 00:00:21,947 --> 00:00:24,747 Speaker 2: if you wanted to to name a black Caps team 7 00:00:24,947 --> 00:00:30,107 Speaker 2: with white ball international experience, all under the age of thirty, 8 00:00:30,227 --> 00:00:32,307 Speaker 2: and this is the team I came up with. Rhese Martyu, 9 00:00:32,747 --> 00:00:36,827 Speaker 2: fin Allen, Tim Robinson, Rutch and Ravendra, Glenn Phillips, Muhammadabas, 10 00:00:37,107 --> 00:00:41,747 Speaker 2: Mitch Hay, Nathan Smith, Zach Folks, Ben Sears and willow' rourke, 11 00:00:41,947 --> 00:00:46,387 Speaker 2: or if you wanted a spin option, Addy Ashok. Former 12 00:00:46,387 --> 00:00:50,107 Speaker 2: New Zealand off spinner. Paul Wiseman was also former New 13 00:00:50,187 --> 00:00:54,947 Speaker 2: Zealand Cricket Talent Identification manager and still heavily involved in 14 00:00:55,027 --> 00:00:58,107 Speaker 2: New Zealand Cricket's High performance program as a coach. He 15 00:00:58,187 --> 00:01:00,347 Speaker 2: joins us, now, Paul, thanks for taking the time. Do 16 00:01:00,387 --> 00:01:04,467 Speaker 2: you feel like we are building some quite significant international 17 00:01:04,507 --> 00:01:05,267 Speaker 2: depth now. 18 00:01:06,787 --> 00:01:10,547 Speaker 3: We are? You know, it's great. Obviously the recent series 19 00:01:10,867 --> 00:01:14,827 Speaker 3: against Pakistan was a really highlighted that I think, you know, 20 00:01:14,867 --> 00:01:17,827 Speaker 3: there's probably nine or ten players that would normally be 21 00:01:17,867 --> 00:01:20,827 Speaker 3: in that side, maybe three that maybe three that would 22 00:01:22,067 --> 00:01:26,187 Speaker 3: always be in that team play against Pakistan this series 23 00:01:26,467 --> 00:01:30,507 Speaker 3: and to win it as comfortably as we did. There's 24 00:01:30,507 --> 00:01:31,947 Speaker 3: a lot for the depth that's coming through. 25 00:01:32,907 --> 00:01:36,987 Speaker 2: Is international white ball cricket a good breeding ground for 26 00:01:37,067 --> 00:01:39,187 Speaker 2: international red ball cricketers? 27 00:01:41,107 --> 00:01:46,427 Speaker 3: Good question. Look, there's more opportunities, aren't there. I suppose 28 00:01:46,467 --> 00:01:51,547 Speaker 3: there's more more games played of white ball crickets, So 29 00:01:52,427 --> 00:01:55,587 Speaker 3: there's opportunities there. I think the opportunities they're coming, in 30 00:01:55,627 --> 00:01:59,907 Speaker 3: a funny way, was all a franchise cricket going on. 31 00:02:00,067 --> 00:02:03,187 Speaker 3: It's meaning that we're having series like this where you know, 32 00:02:03,267 --> 00:02:07,307 Speaker 3: you've got nine players away playing ipl and so that 33 00:02:07,427 --> 00:02:10,587 Speaker 3: naturally has knock on effect and it means the players 34 00:02:10,587 --> 00:02:15,307 Speaker 3: that perhaps in previous years they wouldn't have got the 35 00:02:15,307 --> 00:02:19,507 Speaker 3: opportunity they're getting, and they're coming in and they look 36 00:02:19,627 --> 00:02:21,947 Speaker 3: they look right at home, which is the exciting thing. 37 00:02:21,987 --> 00:02:25,827 Speaker 3: So it means that now domestic cricket is doing a 38 00:02:25,867 --> 00:02:29,347 Speaker 3: good job, the coaches with them doing a good job, 39 00:02:29,387 --> 00:02:33,667 Speaker 3: and the programs that we're putting around what we believe 40 00:02:33,667 --> 00:02:37,587 Speaker 3: are our high potential players, you know, are starting to 41 00:02:37,587 --> 00:02:38,027 Speaker 3: play off. 42 00:02:38,347 --> 00:02:40,907 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess like any international experience. I know, White 43 00:02:40,907 --> 00:02:43,267 Speaker 2: and Red Bull cricket very different, but just being inside 44 00:02:43,267 --> 00:02:46,627 Speaker 2: the black Caps environment for a young player, you know, 45 00:02:46,667 --> 00:02:49,987 Speaker 2: who has aspirations to play test cricket, surely just being 46 00:02:50,027 --> 00:02:53,387 Speaker 2: in and around the environment would be beneficial for them. 47 00:02:54,187 --> 00:02:56,427 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I think every player you talk to 48 00:02:56,547 --> 00:02:59,507 Speaker 3: that goes into that black Caps environment just always comment 49 00:02:59,547 --> 00:03:02,427 Speaker 3: about how chilled out it is, how easy it is, 50 00:03:02,547 --> 00:03:07,187 Speaker 3: how welcome they made to feel. You know, it's a 51 00:03:07,267 --> 00:03:09,627 Speaker 3: tough game as it is at the tough enough game 52 00:03:09,627 --> 00:03:13,067 Speaker 3: as it is at the international level without without feeling 53 00:03:13,107 --> 00:03:16,827 Speaker 3: welcome and feeling feeling at ease when you come in 54 00:03:16,907 --> 00:03:19,787 Speaker 3: and they all know, you know, they play domestically with 55 00:03:19,827 --> 00:03:22,067 Speaker 3: these guys as well. But it's it's a real cultuous 56 00:03:22,067 --> 00:03:25,747 Speaker 3: effort that the black Cats supports staff and players put 57 00:03:25,867 --> 00:03:28,907 Speaker 3: in there. It probably wasn't always that way. It used 58 00:03:28,947 --> 00:03:31,307 Speaker 3: to be sort of think will swim a little bit, 59 00:03:31,347 --> 00:03:34,307 Speaker 3: but you know, it's certainly a lot more encouraging these days, 60 00:03:34,307 --> 00:03:35,147 Speaker 3: which is fantastic. 61 00:03:35,267 --> 00:03:36,987 Speaker 2: Do you think that's intentional. 62 00:03:37,587 --> 00:03:40,547 Speaker 3: One hundred percent of yeah, And that's players and support 63 00:03:40,587 --> 00:03:45,307 Speaker 3: staff all brought into that because I know if people 64 00:03:45,347 --> 00:03:48,427 Speaker 3: come in and feel feel at these they've got a 65 00:03:48,427 --> 00:03:52,747 Speaker 3: better chance of performing out there with their teammates. The 66 00:03:52,867 --> 00:03:55,107 Speaker 3: one hundred percent works, which is brilliant. 67 00:03:55,427 --> 00:03:58,067 Speaker 2: If you're looking at a young player who's playing domestic 68 00:03:58,107 --> 00:04:01,027 Speaker 2: cricket and trying to as cisse whether they could make 69 00:04:01,067 --> 00:04:04,907 Speaker 2: the jump from domestic cricket to international cricket, what are 70 00:04:04,987 --> 00:04:10,667 Speaker 2: the main factors that you would consider, Well. 71 00:04:11,227 --> 00:04:14,267 Speaker 3: The I test is one. For a start, you look 72 00:04:14,267 --> 00:04:17,987 Speaker 3: at a player the first, the gut field thing that's there. 73 00:04:18,027 --> 00:04:19,667 Speaker 3: If you've been in the game and long enough, you 74 00:04:19,747 --> 00:04:22,507 Speaker 3: see those sorts of things. With batters, we look at 75 00:04:22,587 --> 00:04:25,947 Speaker 3: players that can play quality spin and paste because that 76 00:04:26,307 --> 00:04:28,107 Speaker 3: tends to be what you face at the top level. 77 00:04:28,187 --> 00:04:30,267 Speaker 3: There's not so much of the medium pace stuff that 78 00:04:30,307 --> 00:04:32,187 Speaker 3: we face a lot of, and a lot of our 79 00:04:32,227 --> 00:04:37,027 Speaker 3: players grow up facing naturally because it's school cricket. That's 80 00:04:37,067 --> 00:04:38,987 Speaker 3: what you get. You don't get the top, top quality 81 00:04:39,027 --> 00:04:41,867 Speaker 3: spinners and paste palls. So we want to have a 82 00:04:41,867 --> 00:04:44,747 Speaker 3: look at guys that we believe have the ability to 83 00:04:44,787 --> 00:04:47,347 Speaker 3: do that, and then we try and put them in 84 00:04:47,347 --> 00:04:50,227 Speaker 3: positions for them to learn those. So you know, we've 85 00:04:50,227 --> 00:04:52,787 Speaker 3: had recent tools to Chenna. We've taken batters over there 86 00:04:52,867 --> 00:04:56,787 Speaker 3: to work on playing spin bowling. We've got a tools 87 00:04:56,827 --> 00:04:59,467 Speaker 3: coming up, one of may to Pangladesh in one in 88 00:04:59,507 --> 00:05:05,667 Speaker 3: South Africa, two completely different conditions, and so batters are 89 00:05:05,667 --> 00:05:08,147 Speaker 3: going to be tested diferent ways. And then obviously with 90 00:05:08,227 --> 00:05:11,507 Speaker 3: the pace ballers, pace is something you can't really coach. 91 00:05:12,467 --> 00:05:14,947 Speaker 3: You can enhance it, but they've kind of got it 92 00:05:15,027 --> 00:05:17,027 Speaker 3: or they haven't. Can they move the ball? If they 93 00:05:17,027 --> 00:05:21,427 Speaker 3: haven't got extreme pace? Have they got height? Those sorts 94 00:05:21,427 --> 00:05:24,147 Speaker 3: of things, and spinners, you know, can that first first leg? 95 00:05:24,387 --> 00:05:25,947 Speaker 3: The thing you look for is what can they do 96 00:05:25,987 --> 00:05:28,627 Speaker 3: with the ball, whether it's in the air, off the pitch. 97 00:05:29,987 --> 00:05:32,147 Speaker 3: And I think overall one of the one of the 98 00:05:32,707 --> 00:05:34,907 Speaker 3: couple of the key contributing factors that we look at 99 00:05:34,907 --> 00:05:37,587 Speaker 3: the talents is a love for the game and a 100 00:05:37,627 --> 00:05:42,507 Speaker 3: work ethic and that competitive nature. So those three things, 101 00:05:42,587 --> 00:05:45,987 Speaker 3: coupled with the skills that you see, are pretty crucial 102 00:05:46,027 --> 00:05:50,467 Speaker 3: and forming a player that we believe can play at 103 00:05:50,507 --> 00:05:51,187 Speaker 3: the highest level. 104 00:05:51,307 --> 00:05:53,347 Speaker 2: That eye test thing is a really interesting one for me, 105 00:05:53,427 --> 00:05:55,987 Speaker 2: especially with cricker, which is such a complex game. As 106 00:05:56,027 --> 00:05:57,507 Speaker 2: you say you look at a play, I think, man, 107 00:05:57,547 --> 00:05:58,987 Speaker 2: he can bad or gee, what a good bowl of 108 00:05:59,067 --> 00:06:01,867 Speaker 2: he is, but you don't really know what's going on 109 00:06:01,867 --> 00:06:03,667 Speaker 2: inside their head, do you until you get them inside 110 00:06:03,667 --> 00:06:04,267 Speaker 2: an environment? 111 00:06:04,387 --> 00:06:04,587 Speaker 1: Do you? 112 00:06:05,067 --> 00:06:07,227 Speaker 2: Is it more hit than mess? Are there many who 113 00:06:07,307 --> 00:06:09,227 Speaker 2: come in and you've completely misread it. 114 00:06:11,467 --> 00:06:14,667 Speaker 3: We have an under nineteen program which has the World 115 00:06:14,667 --> 00:06:18,507 Speaker 3: Cup every two years, and we're eighty percent of the 116 00:06:18,547 --> 00:06:20,467 Speaker 3: players that go away on that Will Cup. We'll play 117 00:06:20,587 --> 00:06:24,587 Speaker 3: domestic cricket and pretty regularly, and probably thirty percent of 118 00:06:24,587 --> 00:06:29,027 Speaker 3: that we'll play for the black Caps. We won freak 119 00:06:29,067 --> 00:06:31,427 Speaker 3: this year, which I think is looking back on it 120 00:06:31,547 --> 00:06:34,147 Speaker 3: now has probably set us in such good steed. Back 121 00:06:34,187 --> 00:06:38,787 Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen Under nineteen World Cup and the tournament 122 00:06:38,907 --> 00:06:42,027 Speaker 3: leading into that national tournament, we had sixteen black Caps 123 00:06:42,067 --> 00:06:45,867 Speaker 3: come out of that one year. Like I said before, 124 00:06:45,907 --> 00:06:48,507 Speaker 3: there's normally around three, but we had sixteen. And so 125 00:06:48,667 --> 00:06:56,987 Speaker 3: that's that's the Henrys and the Lathans and the Sodees 126 00:06:57,427 --> 00:07:00,187 Speaker 3: and sat NaNs and a lost of the guys. So 127 00:07:00,187 --> 00:07:03,027 Speaker 3: there's about sixteen came out of that group, which meant 128 00:07:03,027 --> 00:07:04,507 Speaker 3: that there was a bit of a log jam for 129 00:07:04,587 --> 00:07:09,307 Speaker 3: those underneath. So now what's happening is we're getting players 130 00:07:09,347 --> 00:07:12,587 Speaker 3: coming in that I've actually had a number of years 131 00:07:13,107 --> 00:07:15,427 Speaker 3: of hard domestic cricket under their belts, so when they 132 00:07:15,427 --> 00:07:18,987 Speaker 3: do come in, they're ready and they're flying from ball one. 133 00:07:19,227 --> 00:07:21,467 Speaker 3: And we've had probably the last five six years of that. 134 00:07:22,067 --> 00:07:25,507 Speaker 3: Virtually every player that's come and has succeeded pretty early on, 135 00:07:26,027 --> 00:07:29,627 Speaker 3: which is awesome and it means that we're not just 136 00:07:29,667 --> 00:07:32,827 Speaker 3: throwing guys in. Perhaps we did that a little bit 137 00:07:32,867 --> 00:07:34,787 Speaker 3: in the past. If you can bowl one forty then 138 00:07:34,827 --> 00:07:37,827 Speaker 3: you're in, rather than by one forty. You've also got 139 00:07:37,827 --> 00:07:39,347 Speaker 3: to take a bunch of five work at bags and 140 00:07:39,387 --> 00:07:42,787 Speaker 3: domestic cricket before you get there, because the standard or 141 00:07:42,827 --> 00:07:45,307 Speaker 3: the level of the depth of players up there is 142 00:07:45,387 --> 00:07:48,227 Speaker 3: keeping you out. So it has it's had that knock 143 00:07:48,227 --> 00:07:50,427 Speaker 3: on effect and I think it's I think it's been 144 00:07:50,507 --> 00:07:53,747 Speaker 3: a really good thing for us. But also just recently 145 00:07:53,787 --> 00:07:56,067 Speaker 3: we've managed to get a couple of young guys and 146 00:07:56,507 --> 00:08:00,147 Speaker 3: the likes of Rys Mario and Eddie Ashok and Muhammad 147 00:08:00,187 --> 00:08:02,867 Speaker 3: A Bass so that's exciting too. 148 00:08:03,067 --> 00:08:05,587 Speaker 2: Indeed, how do you make sure, Paul that you don't 149 00:08:05,627 --> 00:08:08,747 Speaker 2: miss anybody? If there's a guy getting potter runs up 150 00:08:08,747 --> 00:08:11,627 Speaker 2: in kay Tire or taking a bunch of wickets down 151 00:08:11,667 --> 00:08:13,787 Speaker 2: in Gore, how do you make sure no one slips 152 00:08:13,787 --> 00:08:14,427 Speaker 2: through the cracks. 153 00:08:16,547 --> 00:08:19,187 Speaker 3: We've got a pretty good network out there with our MAS. 154 00:08:19,267 --> 00:08:22,147 Speaker 3: We work very closely with them. They're they're basically our 155 00:08:22,267 --> 00:08:25,667 Speaker 3: high performance you know. We bring in at the pois 156 00:08:25,707 --> 00:08:29,107 Speaker 3: to certain camps and a's and our Men's Development Group 157 00:08:29,147 --> 00:08:32,467 Speaker 3: and nine teams and so forth, but ours are the 158 00:08:32,467 --> 00:08:34,307 Speaker 3: ones that do the bulk of the of the work 159 00:08:34,347 --> 00:08:37,347 Speaker 3: with these guys, and they have networks within their MA 160 00:08:38,507 --> 00:08:43,707 Speaker 3: that feed information through. We probably need to get more 161 00:08:44,547 --> 00:08:49,027 Speaker 3: eyes on players and around the Auckland area. We're probably 162 00:08:49,067 --> 00:08:51,467 Speaker 3: a little bit limited there in terms of numbers, and 163 00:08:51,507 --> 00:08:54,307 Speaker 3: that's just a cost thing. Everyone has their own pathway 164 00:08:54,307 --> 00:08:57,507 Speaker 3: manager in each EACHMA. That Auckland, as you know, is 165 00:08:57,707 --> 00:09:03,027 Speaker 3: population wise is so much bigger than the rest of 166 00:09:02,267 --> 00:09:07,707 Speaker 3: the country and it's such an exciting population with East 167 00:09:07,747 --> 00:09:11,747 Speaker 3: Asian and South African and all of that sort of thing. 168 00:09:11,827 --> 00:09:14,427 Speaker 3: So I'm sure there are some players that get to 169 00:09:14,507 --> 00:09:17,267 Speaker 3: a level that maybe don't get seen. But the ones 170 00:09:18,667 --> 00:09:20,707 Speaker 3: with the real skill I think we'll still come through 171 00:09:20,747 --> 00:09:26,507 Speaker 3: our program just because they're the ones that have that 172 00:09:26,547 --> 00:09:29,267 Speaker 3: work if that we've talked about, that drive that in 173 00:09:29,307 --> 00:09:31,227 Speaker 3: a drive to get better, they will find a way. 174 00:09:32,227 --> 00:09:34,587 Speaker 3: That's not ideal. We need to get that right, but 175 00:09:34,827 --> 00:09:38,747 Speaker 3: I'd say ninety eight percent of players we're not missing. 176 00:09:39,547 --> 00:09:41,667 Speaker 2: Do you also keep an eye on secondary score cricket. 177 00:09:43,227 --> 00:09:47,027 Speaker 3: We do that through those pathway managers that have networks 178 00:09:47,067 --> 00:09:51,867 Speaker 3: into schools and clubs. Again, I think Auckland's in the 179 00:09:51,907 --> 00:09:54,627 Speaker 3: area that we can be a lot better at. But 180 00:09:54,707 --> 00:09:57,667 Speaker 3: we just need we need a Biggert system, a bigger 181 00:09:57,667 --> 00:10:00,467 Speaker 3: network up here. I think the rest of the country's 182 00:10:01,547 --> 00:10:05,107 Speaker 3: pretty good. I think those players will come through and 183 00:10:05,147 --> 00:10:09,707 Speaker 3: start shining through. I suppose the ones that the ones 184 00:10:09,747 --> 00:10:11,507 Speaker 3: that you may miss along the way would be the 185 00:10:11,507 --> 00:10:14,627 Speaker 3: ones that show that real talent, but they're very good 186 00:10:14,627 --> 00:10:17,267 Speaker 3: at other sport as well, and they don't get eyes 187 00:10:17,307 --> 00:10:19,667 Speaker 3: on them early. And we have, I mean a lot 188 00:10:19,667 --> 00:10:22,747 Speaker 3: of our best players, our black Apps and things were 189 00:10:22,867 --> 00:10:25,267 Speaker 3: very good at other sports as well, So we do 190 00:10:25,347 --> 00:10:27,787 Speaker 3: have that. We do have that battle with other sports. 191 00:10:27,827 --> 00:10:30,947 Speaker 3: But it's been our philosophy and New Zeland cricketers that 192 00:10:30,987 --> 00:10:35,187 Speaker 3: we encourage all our cricketers play as much or as 193 00:10:35,187 --> 00:10:37,707 Speaker 3: many other sports as they possibly can until they have 194 00:10:37,747 --> 00:10:40,547 Speaker 3: to make a decision either way, because we believe at 195 00:10:40,547 --> 00:10:43,147 Speaker 3: the end of that if they've been playing rugby or 196 00:10:43,227 --> 00:10:46,147 Speaker 3: basketball or whatever sport they've been hockey or whatever. It 197 00:10:46,187 --> 00:10:49,267 Speaker 3: might be that we will have a better athlete if 198 00:10:49,307 --> 00:10:52,867 Speaker 3: they come and play cricket, and vice verst. If they 199 00:10:52,907 --> 00:10:54,427 Speaker 3: don't choose us and they go to rugby one of 200 00:10:54,427 --> 00:10:57,307 Speaker 3: those other sports that sport will have a better athlete 201 00:10:57,307 --> 00:11:00,627 Speaker 3: if they've been playing cricket as well. So yep, we 202 00:11:00,707 --> 00:11:02,747 Speaker 3: might miss the odd one. But at the end of 203 00:11:02,747 --> 00:11:05,027 Speaker 3: the day, it's usually a dutfield thing with players and 204 00:11:05,307 --> 00:11:07,787 Speaker 3: they'll have one preference one way or the other. 205 00:11:07,947 --> 00:11:10,587 Speaker 2: Yeah, that balance is better. Philosophy has proven to be 206 00:11:10,827 --> 00:11:13,427 Speaker 2: extremely effective. Of course, for these young players to get 207 00:11:13,427 --> 00:11:18,267 Speaker 2: opportunities in the international environment, Paul, somebody has to make 208 00:11:18,347 --> 00:11:21,987 Speaker 2: room for them. So how do you know when it's 209 00:11:22,027 --> 00:11:27,187 Speaker 2: the right time to move on from an established, experienced player. 210 00:11:28,507 --> 00:11:32,787 Speaker 3: Such a tough one, And it's very very individual. I think, 211 00:11:33,867 --> 00:11:37,387 Speaker 3: you know, I think the player, and I think the 212 00:11:37,747 --> 00:11:43,107 Speaker 3: people that watch get pretty get pretty noisy, or those 213 00:11:43,107 --> 00:11:47,187 Speaker 3: that watch the game, the crowd, the public, they start 214 00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:50,107 Speaker 3: start talking about things as well, and that's been going 215 00:11:50,147 --> 00:11:53,987 Speaker 3: on for a while. But I think what musing create 216 00:11:53,987 --> 00:11:57,267 Speaker 3: has done pretty well and it's there never easy conversations 217 00:11:57,427 --> 00:12:00,107 Speaker 3: they have those conversations with a lot of these players 218 00:12:00,507 --> 00:12:05,027 Speaker 3: quite a long way out about when they'd like to exit, 219 00:12:05,107 --> 00:12:07,227 Speaker 3: how they would like to exit, the sorts of things, 220 00:12:08,627 --> 00:12:11,547 Speaker 3: so that those sorts of conversations definitely do go on 221 00:12:11,587 --> 00:12:15,627 Speaker 3: in the background. They're not easy ones, and some planets 222 00:12:15,627 --> 00:12:18,347 Speaker 3: fairly that they can go on forever, and which is 223 00:12:18,387 --> 00:12:21,187 Speaker 3: wonderful and that's probably some of the characteristics that you 224 00:12:21,347 --> 00:12:23,787 Speaker 3: have got them as far as they have. But as 225 00:12:23,827 --> 00:12:27,307 Speaker 3: you know, everyone, everyone comes to that point where wary 226 00:12:27,347 --> 00:12:31,547 Speaker 3: that their love for it is starting to diminish, all 227 00:12:31,587 --> 00:12:35,867 Speaker 3: their performances starting to drop, and then you've got young 228 00:12:35,907 --> 00:12:39,067 Speaker 3: guys waiting in the wings that are starting to shoot 229 00:12:39,067 --> 00:12:41,827 Speaker 3: the lights out on the levels below. So it's a 230 00:12:41,907 --> 00:12:44,307 Speaker 3: natural thing in sport. It's not an easy thing, but 231 00:12:46,387 --> 00:12:49,587 Speaker 3: I think using in cricket by large do it reasonably well. 232 00:12:50,667 --> 00:12:53,267 Speaker 2: Just to finish with more and more T twenty franchise 233 00:12:53,307 --> 00:12:58,067 Speaker 2: opportunities popping up everywhere, do you think there might be 234 00:12:58,147 --> 00:13:01,947 Speaker 2: a generation of cricketers emerge who don't play for New Zealand, 235 00:13:02,067 --> 00:13:05,347 Speaker 2: they just play franchise cricket or do they need the 236 00:13:05,427 --> 00:13:08,307 Speaker 2: domestic grounding first to even catch the eye or to 237 00:13:08,387 --> 00:13:10,667 Speaker 2: develop the skills to play in those franchise legs. 238 00:13:11,867 --> 00:13:14,667 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope it doesn't come to that. I hope 239 00:13:14,667 --> 00:13:17,547 Speaker 3: the first and first thing, and maybe it's wishful thinking 240 00:13:17,627 --> 00:13:21,387 Speaker 3: that the first and foremost they want to represent New Zealand. 241 00:13:23,147 --> 00:13:27,227 Speaker 3: But there are players and domestic leagues in Australia that 242 00:13:27,267 --> 00:13:30,347 Speaker 3: have got picked up an i PL and they go 243 00:13:30,467 --> 00:13:34,147 Speaker 3: straight into that name large amounts of money and andrew 244 00:13:34,267 --> 00:13:36,267 Speaker 3: very well and they don't don't end up playing for 245 00:13:36,307 --> 00:13:38,027 Speaker 3: their domestic side. But I think in New Zealand at 246 00:13:38,027 --> 00:13:46,587 Speaker 3: the moment, playing for New Zealand is certainly the window, 247 00:13:47,707 --> 00:13:51,387 Speaker 3: the window for them to be seen. Yep. You know, 248 00:13:51,467 --> 00:13:54,627 Speaker 3: for Allen had that breakout season a few years back 249 00:13:54,747 --> 00:13:58,147 Speaker 3: for the Firebirds and he got picked up in the IPL, 250 00:13:58,707 --> 00:14:02,267 Speaker 3: but I think he still sees New Zealand. Playing for 251 00:14:02,307 --> 00:14:04,667 Speaker 3: New Zealand as the ultimate and it's also you know, 252 00:14:04,667 --> 00:14:08,187 Speaker 3: if he does well at that level, then his stocks 253 00:14:08,227 --> 00:14:11,187 Speaker 3: rise again for franchise cricket. And I don't blame anyone 254 00:14:11,227 --> 00:14:15,027 Speaker 3: for wanting to play franchise cricket. I don't think there'll 255 00:14:15,067 --> 00:14:17,107 Speaker 3: be too many people in the world that would turn 256 00:14:17,147 --> 00:14:20,947 Speaker 3: down to sort of numbers that they get paid for it, 257 00:14:21,387 --> 00:14:22,867 Speaker 3: and it's only a short and known in your life 258 00:14:22,867 --> 00:14:25,027 Speaker 3: that you get to earn it. But I still think 259 00:14:25,107 --> 00:14:29,987 Speaker 3: the vast majority of players, the first and foremost drivers 260 00:14:30,347 --> 00:14:33,347 Speaker 3: is to play for the black Caps, no doubt. 261 00:14:33,707 --> 00:14:36,507 Speaker 2: All Right, So that team I named at the top Mario, Alan, Robinson, 262 00:14:36,587 --> 00:14:40,147 Speaker 2: Ravendra Phillips, are Bass, Hay Smith, Folks, cs O Rourke. 263 00:14:40,467 --> 00:14:42,267 Speaker 2: Do you reckon that team beats the Grizzled over the 264 00:14:42,307 --> 00:14:43,587 Speaker 2: thirties in the game of T twenty. 265 00:14:45,307 --> 00:14:49,347 Speaker 3: It's an exciting team, isn't it. Yeah? I think that 266 00:14:49,507 --> 00:14:53,747 Speaker 3: push him pretty hard, and that is what is so 267 00:14:53,867 --> 00:14:55,707 Speaker 3: cool is that all of a sudden, you know, you've 268 00:14:55,707 --> 00:14:59,507 Speaker 3: got guys looking over their shoulders, quality players looking over 269 00:14:59,507 --> 00:15:02,547 Speaker 3: their shoulders, and so they're going to keep pushing. And 270 00:15:03,627 --> 00:15:05,667 Speaker 3: the thing is these days the guy that's so much 271 00:15:05,707 --> 00:15:09,507 Speaker 3: fitter than what they were when I was playing, that 272 00:15:09,587 --> 00:15:13,867 Speaker 3: they can play longer. So you know, I had a 273 00:15:13,867 --> 00:15:15,987 Speaker 3: look at some numbers a while. But this was a 274 00:15:15,987 --> 00:15:22,987 Speaker 3: couple of years ago where the twenty most recent debut 275 00:15:23,347 --> 00:15:26,867 Speaker 3: players in test cricket average age was twenty eight, and 276 00:15:26,907 --> 00:15:28,707 Speaker 3: it was twenty seven at one day cricket in twenty 277 00:15:28,707 --> 00:15:31,627 Speaker 3: six and twenty. It's dropped a little bit in recent 278 00:15:31,667 --> 00:15:34,107 Speaker 3: times obviously with the likes of the Marios and their 279 00:15:34,147 --> 00:15:36,747 Speaker 3: basses and the airshocks and the Revenger is coming in. 280 00:15:37,307 --> 00:15:41,067 Speaker 3: But you know that, just that tells you that you've 281 00:15:41,067 --> 00:15:42,507 Speaker 3: got to stick at the game for a fair bit 282 00:15:42,547 --> 00:15:45,787 Speaker 3: before you get your crack, unless you're absolutely exceptional, which 283 00:15:46,907 --> 00:15:49,027 Speaker 3: you know, if you are dabooing at twenty six to 284 00:15:49,067 --> 00:15:51,907 Speaker 3: twenty seven, you've still got another decade of international cricket 285 00:15:51,947 --> 00:15:55,867 Speaker 3: ahead of you if that's what you want. So guys 286 00:15:55,867 --> 00:15:57,147 Speaker 3: are going to have to be patient, they're going to 287 00:15:57,147 --> 00:15:58,787 Speaker 3: have to push hard and they're going to have competition 288 00:15:58,827 --> 00:16:00,187 Speaker 3: and that's only going to be a good thing for 289 00:16:00,947 --> 00:16:01,707 Speaker 3: New Zealand cricket. 290 00:16:01,867 --> 00:16:04,947 Speaker 2: Absolutely right. Thanks so much for the chat, Paul, really insightful. 291 00:16:05,027 --> 00:16:08,587 Speaker 2: I appreciate you joining us the South Known Problem. Thanks mate. 292 00:16:08,587 --> 00:16:12,907 Speaker 2: That's Paul Wiseman, former Talent Identification manager with New Zealand 293 00:16:12,907 --> 00:16:14,867 Speaker 2: Cricket these days high performance Coach. 294 00:16:15,507 --> 00:16:18,707 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, Listen live 295 00:16:18,787 --> 00:16:22,107 Speaker 1: to News Talk zed B weekends from midday or follow 296 00:16:22,147 --> 00:16:23,747 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.