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Speaker 1: And were joined on our huddle by Tris Shearson, Sherston,

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Speaker 1: Willis pr and Joseph Agunny, the chief executive of Child Fund,

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Speaker 1: who was so great gracious, took it so graciously when

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Speaker 1: they were stood down as the emergency huddle on Friday

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Speaker 1: A and off.

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Speaker 2: The flashing red light and went back to the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: Did you think, actually on that subject, which is the

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Speaker 1: lux and leadership thing that happened on Friday, Trisha, I

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Speaker 1: thought it's probably got a bit silly to have the

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Speaker 1: media chasing him through the airport on the Monday when

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Speaker 1: the thing is already wrapped up and done by Friday afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I thought it became very clear that

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Speaker 2: it's not a coup, it's a competence issue, and for

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Speaker 2: that reason, over the weekend the whole thing went quiet.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I didn't think it had the excitement level

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Speaker 2: today that would require chasing through Parliament. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: it was a coupe you would have seen leaking out

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Speaker 2: over the weekend, you would have already by today we

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Speaker 2: would have names in a ring. And unless you have

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Speaker 2: an organized group in caucus or including backbenchers who are

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Speaker 2: doing the numbers, then this is actually a story I

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Speaker 2: think about competence and authority of the Prime minister and

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Speaker 2: one bad poll is not a death certificate for him.

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Speaker 2: But what it is is several missteps like he continues

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Speaker 2: to make over time. They are eroding the view and

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Speaker 2: his competence and they're eroding his authority.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think true?

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Speaker 3: Oh, Josey, Yeah, I mean all that's changed since Friday

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Speaker 3: is that we know when he came on your show

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Speaker 3: and we got pushed aside quite rightly. All that's changed

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Speaker 3: is we know he's fighting, so he's making a decision

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Speaker 3: that he's not letting go. It might not be his

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Speaker 3: decision in the end. And you're right, this isn't really

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Speaker 3: just about one bad poll. It is about that sort

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Speaker 3: of sinking feeling you have that he's just not quite

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Speaker 3: up to it. And I'm not sure that he's said

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Speaker 3: anything between Friday and now, and he's done a whole

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Speaker 3: media around today that will have changed anybody's minds about that.

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Speaker 3: So his line has been I'm not here, I don't

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Speaker 3: care about pole, I'm here for your children and your grandchildren.

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Speaker 3: Well that's not why you're unpopular. I mean, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're not looking at an opposition that's there, you know,

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Speaker 3: not for your children and grandchildren. So I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: that he's put people's minds at rest that he can

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Speaker 3: articulate a vision for the country, that he can sail

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Speaker 3: a ship in stormy seas and reassure us that he's

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Speaker 3: not going to sink the good ship New Zealand. And

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Speaker 3: he set up this that they've announced they've set up

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Speaker 3: this thing called something like the Economic Supply Chain Security

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Speaker 3: Advisory Body. Good doesn't quite have the ring of Cobra

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Speaker 3: in the UK or epic fury or something like. So

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Speaker 3: you know he's done that, that's okay, but it's just

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Speaker 3: you know, he's got the work, ethic, the decency of

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Speaker 3: a prime minister. He just doesn't have the character.

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Speaker 1: So the question is, Trish, whether you think that they

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Speaker 1: are going to go to the election with him National?

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Speaker 2: What do you think again, in the absence of somebody

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Speaker 2: actively doing the numbers. And here's my question, Mark, I

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Speaker 2: just am not convinced that anyone in National has got

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Speaker 2: the stomach for that at the moment. I mean, there

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Speaker 2: was everyone's talked about that.

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Speaker 1: But so then what you're arguing is that the because

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Speaker 1: remember the reason that this is even a thing is

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Speaker 1: because at twenty eight percent, they lose twelve MPs, right,

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Speaker 1: they lose Nikola Willis, they lose Paul Goldsmith, depending on

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Speaker 1: how the electorates shape up. Now, are they really going

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Speaker 1: to go to the election sitting on levels like this

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Speaker 1: and being like unresigned to my fate. It's absolutely fine?

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I did the number. I did a bit

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Speaker 2: of a breakdown of the numbers on that over the weekend.

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Speaker 2: And in fact, as usual, where the where the nervousness

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Speaker 2: should be is those electric MPs who are in marginal

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Speaker 2: seats and do not have the list cover, so you're

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Speaker 2: actually talking quite low down the list. And again one

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Speaker 2: of my observations over the last little bit is that

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Speaker 2: as our politics have changed, I think there is a

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Speaker 2: decrease in the capability around staging a coupe. These things

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Speaker 2: they are really tough, they are really hard, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I just am not convinced that within national there is

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Speaker 2: the stomach to go again right now without something really

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Speaker 2: fundamental happening. And I also think that just one of

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Speaker 2: the things that is in the back of my mind though,

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Speaker 2: and we saw it today with Luxin at the press conference.

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Speaker 2: His line today, which was, you know, on Friday, the

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Speaker 2: media went a little bit bananas frankly around this. So

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Speaker 2: in my view, where he consistently loses is he hasn't

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Speaker 2: built a relationship with the media. He's put a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of focus on going direct on social media that

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Speaker 2: isn't and hasn't worked. He needs to rebuild a relationship

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Speaker 2: with the press callery. He needs to start listening to

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Speaker 2: the feedback of his team, which is fundamental. And I

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Speaker 2: understand that what's driving a lot of the frustration right

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Speaker 2: down from his office through the beehive is that he's

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Speaker 2: not a person who can take advice.

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Speaker 3: And he's look, I mean, he's one stumble away from

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Speaker 3: a bunch of people, all of whom we know, the

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Speaker 3: names we know, ready to pounce. And the thing is,

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Speaker 3: even you watch them today on the post cabinet press conference,

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Speaker 3: you're waiting for him to say something that might stumble

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Speaker 3: or not quite get right. And then of course, every

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Speaker 3: time one of those ministers walks out their front door

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Speaker 3: or walks into their office, they're going to be stopped

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Speaker 3: by the media and the first question will be, are

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Speaker 3: you do you have does a preme minister have your

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Speaker 3: full support, and the answer will be something like it's

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Speaker 3: today the Prime Minister has my full support, oh not tomorrow. Well,

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Speaker 3: I couldn't be any clearer, you know. So you're just

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Speaker 3: going to get this over and over again. And look,

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Speaker 3: I just think the confidence is just dropped and I

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Speaker 3: don't know how you get that back. And the right

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Speaker 3: track ron track is not in the government's favor, and

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Speaker 3: I just think they're going to go. Look, one final

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Speaker 3: statistic will give you about this time in the electoral

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Speaker 3: cycle was when Mark Carney rolled Justin Trudeau in Canada.

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Speaker 1: Wyepped out pretty well, Okay, take a break, come back

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Speaker 1: and talk about the fuel tech. Right, you're back with

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Speaker 1: the huddle. Joseph Ganni and Trisius and Josie, do you

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Speaker 1: reckon they should keep the option of a fuel tax

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Speaker 1: cut open?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: You know, yes, and no, I do think it's slightly

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Speaker 3: ironic that the Taxpayers Union is in effect calling for

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Speaker 3: a subsidy for the government to subsidize drivers. And you know,

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Speaker 3: they're calling for a tax cut, a tax cut and

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Speaker 3: inverted commas. But it's actually a subsidy, isn't it. And

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Speaker 3: so the problem is, though you know it's a temporary measure,

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Speaker 3: and you're basically asking future taxpayers to pay for it.

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Speaker 3: It's a big borrow. Iou from the future, And I

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Speaker 3: don't think. I don't think it's the right thing to

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Speaker 3: do right now. I do wonder. You know, this could

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Speaker 3: be over quite quickly or drag on. You know, this

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Speaker 3: is the nature of war now, it's drones, it's robotics,

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Speaker 3: it's autonomous weapons that could just sort of drag on

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Speaker 3: without necessarily impacting supply chains further than a few weeks. Now.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. So no, I don't think it's the

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Speaker 3: right thing to do now. But yeah, thanks Taxpayers Union

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Speaker 3: for calling for a government subsidy. Big government.

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Speaker 2: Go. Well, I'm going to give a boquet to the

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Speaker 2: government here. I thought this was smart politics their press

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Speaker 2: conference today. Number One, to really take back the narrative

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Speaker 2: on this whole I run situation in the uncertainty. Number one,

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Speaker 2: to sort of move the PM off to the side

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Speaker 2: and have this focused on Nikola Willis. And I think

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Speaker 2: the message that they were trying to send to New

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Speaker 2: Zealand is we get this as serious and we are

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Speaker 2: really serious about it. So they've put in this Ministerial

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Speaker 2: Oversight Committee great. The other thing that I cy, the

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Speaker 2: other thing that I really like today was when Nicola

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Speaker 2: Willis was asked about the field lowering the field texs,

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Speaker 2: she immediately said, you know, we cannot go to short

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Speaker 2: term sugar hits. We know what happened last time under

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Speaker 2: the previous labor government when they were you know, sugar

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Speaker 2: hitting all over the place, whether it was petrol tax

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Speaker 2: or whatever else. And I think the one thing that

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Speaker 2: is terrible in politics is when you do a sugar

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Speaker 2: hit today and you continually put off the big stuff

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Speaker 2: because we haven't got any money. Yeah, and I and

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Speaker 2: I really like the fact that Willis today was being

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Speaker 2: the grown up in the room and actually saying to people,

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Speaker 2: it's hard. There's a there's a very tough situation and

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to go now and make a make.

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Speaker 1: A move like this.

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Speaker 2: I really liked it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it does make it harder for them at the election,

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Speaker 1: though it doesn't mean yeah, well and till November.

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Speaker 2: But as a voter, I want a government who does

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Speaker 2: hard stuff so I can evaluate about the trade offs.

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Speaker 2: They are really honest about.

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Speaker 1: It now, i'd and I didn't want to be immediately

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Speaker 1: negative about the story about today l Mahry in schools, Joseph.

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Speaker 1: But I can't help but get there because I mean,

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Speaker 1: while the numbers are fantastic, if you've got like twenty

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Speaker 1: eight thousand kids learning it, learning the curricul that's not enough.

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Speaker 1: It's just like if we have dreams of being bilingual,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to get there with numbers like that.

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Speaker 3: Well, and also they're struggling to get Torio teachers because

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Speaker 3: they can't pay them enough, which you know again comes

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Speaker 3: back to the whole ability to pay good teachers more.

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Speaker 1: And because you can make if you can speak to

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Speaker 1: El Mahari fluently, the money that you can make in

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Speaker 1: consulting to government departments is eyewater.

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Speaker 3: So you've got to pay teachers more. And you know

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Speaker 3: that's only the unions have got to get behind that.

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Speaker 3: And part of the problem is I look back at

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Speaker 3: my kids who are at school, you know, relatively recently,

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Speaker 3: and you know we're paying teachers to teach them about

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Speaker 3: American Civil rights movement. Great, but I'd rather pay them

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Speaker 3: to learn Torio. I'd rather pay them something New Zealand

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Speaker 3: e rather than paying them to learn about, you know,

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Speaker 3: the Vietnam War or something so that's the problem. If

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Speaker 3: you if you can't pay them enough, we're not going

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Speaker 3: to get enough teach We're not going to teach more

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Speaker 3: kids Toe or Mary. And actually we feel really proud

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Speaker 3: of that, right, We feel proud when we've you know,

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Speaker 3: managed to speak a bit of Marii or you go

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Speaker 3: overseas and you know, we know we can do a

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Speaker 3: water and a bit of a Mei.

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Speaker 1: And it's to do with you overseas trips, is it?

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Speaker 2: Now? What do you think, Trish, Well, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: I'm throwing at the bouquets here, but I'm going to

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Speaker 2: give you a big bouquet a termina high school because

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Speaker 2: when I was in the third form in nineteen eighty six,

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Speaker 2: I just ticked over forty years before you do the

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Speaker 2: calculation and fourth form in nineteen eighty seven, we had

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Speaker 2: those first two years where TODA was compulsory and in

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Speaker 2: my my education at high school, that is one of

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Speaker 2: the things that I appreciate the most. It was absolutely fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I think having a problem with the pipeline of teachers

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Speaker 2: is a much better problem for New Zealand than having

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Speaker 2: a problem with demand. Yeah, I think it shows how

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Speaker 2: much we are into this as a country. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a fantastic things and it's.

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Speaker 1: Going to be slow going.

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Speaker 2: Well it is slow it was, but also don't remember,

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Speaker 2: you know, remember the base that we're coming off. It's

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Speaker 2: slow going, but we have made fantastic progress and you know,

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Speaker 2: we know what the problem is. So we just need

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Speaker 2: to turn the spotlight on.

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Speaker 1: It and relentlessly positive.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's do it, just do it exactly, let's let's

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Speaker 2: do it. I mean, knife would heal?

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Speaker 1: Sorry about that, I was draw and apologize. Ladies, Thanks

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Speaker 1: very much for coming in. It's great to chat to you.

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Speaker 1: Tris Sharson, Joseph Garney a huddle this evening. For more

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Speaker 1: from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news Talks

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Speaker 1: it'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio