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Speaker 1: New Zealand first MP Shane Jones has refused to apologize

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Speaker 1: for shouting send the Mexicans home during a debate in

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Speaker 1: the House yesterday. The Green MP Riccardom in India's March,

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Speaker 1: who was born in Mexico, has called the comments racist

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Speaker 1: and xenophobic. Winston Peters, for his part, well, he also

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Speaker 1: accused some foreign born MPs of trying to impose foreign

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Speaker 1: ideas on New Zealand, though he has since issued a

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Speaker 1: statement in which he said it was the heat of

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Speaker 1: the moment. Ricardom in India's marches with the Greens and

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Speaker 1: he's with me now, Hi Riccardo, the Prime Minister, has

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Speaker 1: said he wouldn't have made these comments himself. Winston says

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Speaker 1: it was in the heat of the moment sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: Do we just move on now?

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Speaker 2: Well, like at the other are What is really clear

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Speaker 2: here is that the Prime Minister is scared of holding

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Speaker 2: Winston Peters and Change Jones for remarks, but if they

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Speaker 2: had been targeted at one of his MPs, he clearly

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Speaker 2: would have found them unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: He did say he found them unacceptable.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and it needs and he needs to make

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Speaker 2: it clear that it does not happen. This needs to

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Speaker 2: not happen again. As I've said before, this isn't about

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Speaker 2: Mike Links, you know, lawrences for Francisco, but rather actually

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Speaker 2: the fact that when politicians and people in position of

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Speaker 2: power make these comments and emboldens those people outside of

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Speaker 2: Parliament who throw a racist vitriol and abuse to migrant communities.

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Speaker 2: That is already happening and it is growing. So this

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Speaker 2: is why it's really important to not let those comments

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Speaker 2: go past without any accountability.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Parliament's lost a bit of decorum.

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Speaker 2: I think this is more than the quorum in and

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Speaker 2: of itself. This is explicit anti migrant and cenophobic rhetorics.

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Speaker 2: Parliament can and should be a place of robust debate,

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Speaker 2: but that is quite different from debating ideas to remarks

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Speaker 2: that actually can cause harm beyond the full walls of Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Okay, some have said, look you were baiting him. In fact,

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Speaker 1: Francisco Hernandez in the record interrupts, deliberately interrupts Winston Peter's

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Speaker 1: multiple times when he was speaking, and then when Winston

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Speaker 1: hits back, he says, took the bait. And then when

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Speaker 1: he hits back again, he says keep rambling. So I

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Speaker 1: mean there's some egging ongoing here on here, isn't there?

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Speaker 2: Interjections happen all the time, and we must make it

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Speaker 2: clear that interjection should be based on the contest of ideas.

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Speaker 2: I think for Winston Peters and Chin Johnes to then

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Speaker 2: make a remarks likes and the mix of home has

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with that, and more it has to

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Speaker 2: do with actually anti migrant sentiment that Nision first has

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Speaker 2: actually carried through the whole political history. Once again, I

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Speaker 2: think the Prime Minister has been extremely weak and time

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Speaker 2: and time again, whether it's on this issue or others,

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Speaker 2: has failed to hold one Sipeters to account fair enough?

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Speaker 1: Do you also hold the same standard and hold the

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Speaker 1: same line in the sand for to party Maldi and

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Speaker 1: the way that they've treated Karen Shaw?

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Speaker 2: Do you call that prime minister? We're not the Prime

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Speaker 2: minister here right.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know, but you're But you're you're the moral

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Speaker 1: arbiters the Greens, aren't you. You like to yourselves as

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Speaker 1: quite virtuous. So will you take the stand given you

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Speaker 1: taking a strong stance against the Prime Minister in New

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Speaker 1: Zealand first, here, will you take the same strong stance

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Speaker 1: against Tapati Maari to.

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Speaker 2: Patamari has already explained where those comments came from. Actually,

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Speaker 2: the co leaders of Tapatamari fronted on the same.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's appropriate, it's exactable.

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Speaker 2: The sentiments, I echo the sentiments off to Partumari. I

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Speaker 2: think it's actually not appropriate to conflate to completely different issues.

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Speaker 1: Hang on, hang on, hell yeah. But this is the thing.

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Speaker 1: This is where people get annoyed because I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I don't think what Winston Peters said should have been said.

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Speaker 1: But I also don't think that you can peck on

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Speaker 1: a Maori minister and say that she doesn't understand what

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Speaker 1: it means to be maldi. You can you can walk

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Speaker 1: into your gum at the same time. Surely you can

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Speaker 1: see that both of these things aren't helpful.

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Speaker 2: The difference that we have here is that the Partu

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Speaker 2: Maarti co leaders fronted up on the very same day

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Speaker 2: that happened, whereas lux And refused to answer calls from journalists.

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Speaker 2: He was penned down semantics. That's accountability and it is

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Speaker 2: actually her willing. A prime minister is willing up account.

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Speaker 1: All right, So there's no nothing wrong with the party

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Speaker 1: Maori I mean, what about when they said that Mardi

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Speaker 1: with a superior race, genetically superior. Is that appropriate?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think if you want to hold to Pasi

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Speaker 2: Marti to account for the words you should be talking to.

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Speaker 1: But you're going to go in You're going to go

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Speaker 1: into a government with these guys after the next year, Right.

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Speaker 2: I hear you, Ryan, But come on, this.

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Speaker 1: Is this is what frustrates But this is what frustrates people.

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Speaker 1: Either everything is on the table and unacceptable, or you

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Speaker 1: lose your moral high ground.

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Speaker 2: This isn't about moral high ground. We've got to remember

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Speaker 2: that there are migrant communities outside of the four walls

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Speaker 2: of Parliament who are constantly facing threats about who they are.

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Speaker 2: We've seen a taxan pop transport and I think it's

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Speaker 2: actually really problematic to conflict debates that happen in the

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Speaker 2: House to issues that actually risk harming people on the

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Speaker 2: ground and in the communities. So I actually do think

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Speaker 2: we should like move with these issues carefully because there

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Speaker 2: is genuine harm out there in the communities that can

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Speaker 2: happen when people feel involvedned by the words of people

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Speaker 2: and positions of power.

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Speaker 1: All right, Ricardo, I appreciate you coming on the program.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Ricardo in India's March from the Greens. For

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Speaker 1: more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news

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