1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Curt Koto, Welcome to Shared Lunch. I'm Garth Bray. A 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: lot of you are investing for the long term, and 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: so at some point the question arises, what about investment properties? 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: To answer that question, we've tagged in another expert from 5 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: a highly visible podcast, the Property Academy, who spends a 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: lot of his time thinking about exactly these issues. It's 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: Ed Bigknight from Opus Partners. Before we get to him, 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: some important information that you always need to consider it 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: before investing. 10 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: Investing involves for risk you might lose the money you 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 2: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. 13 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: Everything you're about to see and here is current at 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: the time of recording. 15 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: Ed welcome, more than two thousand podcasts under your belt. 16 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: Is that a black belt then, ic you? 17 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 3: Well, so, I'm just so grateful that so many people 18 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 3: want to nerd out about property for so many thousands 19 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 3: of episodes. But yeah, we've done it every single day 20 00:00:58,880 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 3: for over five years. 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: What is maintaining that sort of consistency? 22 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 3: Like, well, the beautiful thing is so many people email 23 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 3: in questions and it's quite humbling that people will literally 24 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 3: write their entire financial lives in an email, send it 25 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 3: to myself and Andrew, random strangers effectively on the internet 26 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: and say hey, can I have your opinion? Can you 27 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: talk about this on a podcast that thousands of people 28 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 3: listen to? And so we're very grateful to have that 29 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: kind of community engagement. If we didn't have that, maybe 30 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: we would have wrapped up after ninety days, But here 31 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 3: we are over five years later. 32 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,639 Speaker 1: So I'm interested because you've taken a big bolt step. 33 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: As I understand, in the last couple of weeks, you 34 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: announced that you'd spent over one hundred thousand dollars of 35 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: the company's money on building an AI client. How do 36 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: you know if that's worth it? 37 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: I mean, who knows? But you make big bets and business. 38 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 3: So what I really want to do is answer people's questions. 39 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 3: And one of the big questions that investors often ask is, well, 40 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 3: how many properties can I buy? Starting out? I've owned 41 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: my own house for a while, I've paid off a 42 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: bit of the mortgage. How many properties might I be 43 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,919 Speaker 3: able to purchase over the next fifteen years? Because people 44 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 3: just want to get a sense of where could they go? 45 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 3: And so I thought okay, we could probably answer that. 46 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 3: And so what we spent one hundred grand doing was 47 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 3: we tried to recreate all of the bank's internal calculators 48 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 3: that say whether you get a mortgage or not, and say, okay, 49 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: could we project that into the future and say, wherever 50 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 3: you are right now, if your income goes up and 51 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: if you keep paying off your mortgage, how many properties 52 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 3: could you potentially buy? But then the real issue there 53 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: is once you start doing that, I realized there were 54 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 3: like hundreds of thousands of different scenarios you could run 55 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: with the spreadsheets, So how do you find the right 56 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 3: one for you? And so that's where we started building 57 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 3: an AI trained it on this model so that it 58 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 3: can spit out, okay, what property should you buy and 59 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: in what order. We're only using that with our financial 60 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 3: advisors at the moment, so that if a client came 61 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 3: in it's like, yeah, I want to use that. We've 62 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 3: got to make sure there's a person checking all of that. 63 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 3: But we have released a public AI chatbot as well, 64 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: called Opah's AI, where people can ask any question, a 65 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: bit like chat GPT, but it's just been trained on 66 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 3: the hundreds We've written over five hundred articles about property 67 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: investing over the last five years, so it's been trained 68 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: all on that. One thing that's really interesting that you 69 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: won't be able to see though from the public view, 70 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 3: is what people are typing in Now. I've had a 71 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 3: look because I want to know what are people asking 72 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 3: a property AI when you know they're just at home 73 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: at two am in the morning typing stuff in and 74 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: people write their life stories in there and say I 75 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 3: have this much income, my mortgages this much, how many 76 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 3: properties can I buy? Where should I buy? And what 77 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: that showed to me is that there is a real 78 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: need for advice, whether it's in shares or property in 79 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 3: New Zealand because people have these questions and previously they 80 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 3: would have gone to Google. Now they're going to be 81 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 3: going to AI. So I'm really to be in this 82 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 3: position where we've created this AI, people are trusting it 83 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 3: enough to write in their live stories and now we 84 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 3: can kind of guide this AI to try and give 85 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: good answers in a New Zealand context rather than an 86 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 3: American context. Because usually you talk to an AI and 87 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: it's coming from an American based perspective. 88 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: That's a huge amount of information for people to be imparting. 89 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: I guess you've got some pretty good safeguards in there 90 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: for how you look after that data and how you 91 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: use it. 92 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 3: Well, you've got to make sure that you know, not 93 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: everybody in the company can access that. That's usually me 94 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 3: looking through as a director of the company to make 95 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 3: sure that when people are typing that stuff and we 96 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 3: are protecting that. Yeah. 97 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: Right. I actually did ask your Opah's AI a question. 98 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: I said, Look, if we're talking about investments, why is 99 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: buying an investment property better in the long term than 100 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: investing in the US s and P five hundred? 101 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 3: What did it say? 102 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: I want to know what you think it said first, 103 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: because you've worked this thing through thoroughly and I'm just 104 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: a punter, right, Okay, Probably a difference between what I 105 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: think it said and what I would say. 106 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm sure that it probably talked about the 107 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 3: pros and cons. It probably said that shares were higher 108 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 3: risk but ultimately higher return. If it got really advanced, 109 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 3: it might have talked about the impact of debt as well, 110 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 3: and how if you buy properties with debt, that can 111 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: make your returns bigger, but it can also make your 112 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 3: losses bigger. Yeah, but what did it say. 113 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: We're pretty good, You're right. I think it's sort of 114 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: talked a lot about leverage, and I think that's probably 115 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: a good place for us to dive in and say 116 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: when you're thinking about investing. A lot of people say 117 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: property investing is a way to go, but it's based 118 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: on leverage and on taking quite a big risk. If 119 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: the value drops, you've effectively lost your entire investment, Whereas 120 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: whether shareholding, obviously the gains might be lower, but the 121 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: losses tend to be a little bit lower. So I 122 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: guess there's probably a bit of a chance there for 123 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: people to get both sides of the story if they 124 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: look into it and some death. But on that idea 125 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: of leverage, talk to me a little bit about that 126 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: in property investment at the moment and whether it's a 127 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: good time to be leveraged. 128 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the thing in New Zealand was always 129 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 3: considered property to be quite safe, and I think that's 130 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: really mischaracterized property because property is actually pretty high risk, 131 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 3: higher return. But when we typically think about property over 132 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: the last kind of twenty five a year, so since 133 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six, the average property increase in New Zealand 134 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: has been about six point three percent, and for shares 135 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 3: it's been eight point six percent. So shares have been 136 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: higher return, and that's where a lot of people start 137 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 3: by saying cool shares higher return. But then we've also 138 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 3: got to think about risk. Now, when we think about 139 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 3: risk and investment circles, often we're talking about like the 140 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 3: ups and the downs, and so we see that with 141 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 3: shares that you do have some pretty high ups, you 142 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: also have some pretty high downs. So if we think 143 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: about the best year in the S and P five 144 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 3: hundred since Google Finance started reporting the S and P 145 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: five hundred and nineteen ninety six, the best year has 146 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 3: been about fifty four percent up. Great year if you 147 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: timed that. The worst year has been down forty five percent. 148 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: So shares higher return, but bigger ups and downs. The 149 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: worst year and property has been quite recent It was 150 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: about fifteen percent down and best has been thirty percent up. 151 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: So typically this is the way we think about property 152 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: versus shares in New Zealand that cool shares higher return 153 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 3: but also a bit higher risk. But what that conversation 154 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: misses is the leverage part. So let's run through those numbers, 155 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 3: because we always think that when you add debt to 156 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 3: an investment, whether it's property or a business, whatever your 157 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: asset happens to be. That is going to make the 158 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: returns larger, but it's going to make the down side 159 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: much larger as well. I call it the mortgage magnifier, 160 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 3: just because I love my alliterations. Mate, who doesn't. So 161 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 3: let's say you're buying a five hundred thousand dollar property. 162 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: You put one hundred thousand dollars worth of cash in, 163 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: and we've got four hundred k worth of debt. Now, 164 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: if that property goes up by five percent, that property 165 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 3: is no longer worth five hundred thousand. It's worth five 166 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five thousand. Now most people be like, oh, okay, yeah, 167 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 3: that sounds about right. But what that means is that 168 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 3: your equity within that property has gone from one hundred 169 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 3: grand to one hundred and twenty five grand. So yep, 170 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 3: the market went up by five percent, your house went 171 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 3: up by five percent, but your equity within that property 172 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: went up by twenty five percent. Now that sounds pretty good, 173 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 3: but we've got to talk about the downside as well. 174 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: What happens if it goes the other way. If that 175 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 3: house goes from five hundred k drops by five percent 176 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: to full seventy five, you've now lost twenty five thousand 177 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 3: dollars and you're down twenty five percent. 178 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: And we are seeing that at the moment in some markets, 179 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: aren't we We are seeing values in some respects kind 180 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: of dropping backwards in places, or valuations not kind of 181 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 1: coming in where they were originally put out. So that's 182 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: a real risk. 183 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, the market's starting to smooth out quite a lot, 184 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: but it's actually even worse than than what you've made 185 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 3: it out to be. You know, in Lower Hut at 186 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: the largest peak to trough drop, property prices were down 187 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: like thirty percent. And so the reason that those property 188 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 3: drops hurt isn't just the fact that you've lost thirty 189 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: percent on your investment. It's that if you put in 190 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 3: a twenty percent deposit and your property value dropped by 191 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 3: thirty percent, you're now in negative equity. Your return on 192 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 3: the money you put in is negative one hundred and 193 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 3: fifty percent, because you're getting five times if you put 194 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 3: in a twenty percent deposit, you put in a fifth 195 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: of the money, you're getting five times the market return. 196 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 3: And so typically we think of New Zealand property little 197 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 3: bit lower risk, a little bit lower return, but an 198 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 3: actual fact, if you're using debt, it's much higher risk 199 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,839 Speaker 3: and much higher return than shares. And that's the thing 200 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 3: that I think people miss. And I'm not really trying 201 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 3: to emphasize the higher returns here. I'm trying to emphasize 202 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: the higher risk when we take on debt, because that's 203 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 3: the thing a lot of people forget about. 204 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, and that's it's great that I guess 205 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: the AI spat that out is the kind of the 206 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: number one thing to address. I just want to talk 207 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: as well a little bit about some of the other 208 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: aspects that talks about about how property is a tangible 209 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: asset for a lot of people, it's a huge attraction. 210 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: But of course, anything you can't pick up and move, 211 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: anything you can't sell quickly, it makes it a little 212 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: bit less liquid. It's harder to get out of that 213 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: position if you can see a problem coming. So is 214 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: that another thing that people really need to consider it 215 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: with property? 216 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: Well, it kind of depends on who you are. You see. 217 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 3: For me myself, I don't care that property is bricks 218 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 3: and mortar. To me, that's not a huge pro But 219 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 3: I hear from a lot of people that they like it. 220 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 3: They like that they can drive past the property, they 221 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 3: can see it. If they needed two in fifteen years time, 222 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 3: they could do it up, improve its value and sell it. 223 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 3: And so some key weis really value that side of 224 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 3: property and they say, big pro for me is that 225 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 3: it's tangible. Me myself, I don't care so much about that. 226 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: But for some people it's a big pro. 227 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And that idea of a less liquid market, 228 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: lesser ability to sort of liquid eight things. Potentially that's 229 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: not necessarily sort of a big problem from the people 230 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: that you're seeing. 231 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: Oh well, for some people that has a big issue. Yeah, 232 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: especially because when you buy a property and you go 233 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 3: to sell it, the average days to sell might be 234 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 3: like forty five days, or it might take thirty days 235 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 3: to sell a property. But by the time you talk 236 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: to a real estate age and by the time you 237 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: get somebody to say yes, I'm going to buy your 238 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 3: property and then they pay you the money, it's more 239 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 3: like three months. So it can take easily three to 240 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 3: six months for you to say cool, I'm going to 241 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: list this property to eventually sell it. Now, that's probably 242 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 3: one of the reasons why it works, really well as 243 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: a long term store of value or for a long 244 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: term investment. But the big pro I see around that 245 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 3: is that people don't look at their property values every 246 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 3: single day. I think this is another one of the 247 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 3: reasons why people think that shares is more risky than property, 248 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 3: because they look at the value where they look at 249 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 3: their key we save every single day, and they see 250 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 3: it going up and down, and that scares them. To me, 251 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: that's not something to be too scared about. The reason 252 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 3: that you look at property and you think it's safer 253 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 3: quote unquote is because the value on homes not codd 254 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 3: n Z only updates every two weeks, or you're only 255 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 3: looking at your bank ap once a month and it 256 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: updates the property value, so it appears to be less volatile, 257 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 3: but simply because it's a more I liquid asset. Yeah. 258 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: Right, So, what are some of the market specifics that 259 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: you think are important to consider right now in terms 260 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: of availability of property, in terms of prices and so on. 261 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a pretty broad question, but it feels 262 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: to me like that's an entire section that we can 263 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: talk about here. 264 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 3: Yes, there are two main things that I'm really interested 265 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 3: at the moment. The first thing that gets me really 266 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 3: excited is that there is a huge number of listings 267 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 3: on the market. You go on trade, we are one 268 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: roof for real estate, dot coded and Z. At the moment, 269 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 3: there's like over thirty thousand properties currently available. It's basically 270 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: at a ten year high. And so as an investor, 271 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 3: that gets me quite excited because there's a lot of 272 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 3: choice out there. It is a buyer's market rather than 273 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 3: a sales market. One thing that's just as a bit 274 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 3: of a sign about this, it's really interesting that a 275 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: lot of people seem to be quite scared of buyers markets. 276 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 3: They see that property prices are kind of going sowards 277 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 3: at the moment, especially over the last six months, seasonally 278 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 3: adjusted house prices have basically been flat, and some people say, oh, 279 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 3: that's really scary. I'm not sure if it's a good 280 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 3: time to buy. Holl Tho, it's a great time to buy. 281 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 3: It's a buyers market, heaps a choice out there. But 282 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: the thing that I really care about when I'm thinking 283 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 3: about where am I going to invest is I always 284 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 3: try and judge, well, what might be the next market 285 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 3: to take off. So I'll give you an example of 286 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 3: that back in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, christ Church property 287 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 3: prices were very flat and had been flat for a 288 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: long time. But what we were tracking was, well, how 289 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 3: expensive is christ Church compared to the rest of the 290 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: country and compared to where we would expect it to be. 291 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 3: And what we thought was christ Church is looking really 292 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: cheap right now. We directed a lot of our investors 293 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 3: to start buying in christ Church, and over the last 294 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 3: couple of years, crash Church property prices are up fifty 295 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: percent and they didn't really tank that much during the 296 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 3: downturn because Crasschach was still relatively cheap compared to the 297 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 3: rest of the country. So I call it this overvalued 298 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 3: undervalued model. Data is free on our website. We calculate 299 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 3: it for every council area and every region in the country. 300 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 3: And that's one of the main things I'm trying to 301 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 3: look at, which is basically saying, is a particular area 302 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: relatively cheap or relatively expensive compared to where we'd expected 303 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: to be, because that kind of gives us a good 304 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 3: indication about which areas might take off next. 305 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: And I guess you've seen the market adjust to that 306 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: because now we've effectively got I mean a glut of 307 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: properties there in christ Church, haven't we It's an area 308 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: that so we're lead to believe there's a lot available. 309 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of properties that have been built, 310 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 3: but there is a very large difference between the number 311 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 3: of properties that have been built and a glut. To me, 312 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 3: a glut, what does that look like? That looks like 313 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: you can't rent a property. Actually, our property management team 314 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 3: are renting properties pretty quickly in christ Church, much quicker 315 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 3: than Auckland, so we're not necessarily seeing that. I think 316 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 3: what we are seeing in New Zealand is that we 317 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 3: are our housing stock is changing because the makeup of 318 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 3: the country is changing. So if I took you back 319 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 3: the seventies or eighties, your standard house was kind of 320 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: three bedrooms one bathroom. Now people are having fewer kids, 321 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 3: we've got fewer people living in each house and so 322 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: we don't need as many bedrooms. But there's this move 323 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 3: to kind of compact quality where even though we don't 324 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 3: need as many bedrooms, we have higher expectations around what 325 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 3: our house is going to give us. That's why more 326 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 3: people want two bathrooms within a property as opposed to 327 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: just the one that we would have had previously. So 328 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: I think there is a change in the expectations of 329 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 3: kiwis and therefore we're seeing a change in the housing stock. 330 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 3: That's why you see a lot of building. I don't 331 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: necessarily say look at that and say that's a supply issue, 332 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: because some of it is demand driven. 333 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: In terms of diversification, if we're thinking still back to 334 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: that same idea that we started in with, which is 335 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: why would I put my money into a house rather 336 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: than into an equity investment. You could spread your bets 337 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: a lot more easily, can't you if you are putting 338 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: money into a market, Whereas if you are investing in 339 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: anyone property that you're locked up, you're exposed to climate risk, 340 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: rental risk, all of these other kinds of issues. You 341 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: never can pick your neighbors, how I mean, is there 342 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: any way around that problem. 343 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 3: One thing that's really interesting when we're thinking about diversification 344 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: is those numbers I shared before about S and P 345 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 3: five hundred versus zed house prices, the inset house price 346 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 3: index or medium sale price, whatever graph you look at 347 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 3: online is a little bit misleading because if you invest 348 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: in the S and P five hundred, you can put 349 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: your hundred bucks in and you can become reasonably diversified 350 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 3: buying up all five hundred of those stocks, and so 351 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 3: the ups and downs can be smoothed out because you 352 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: are being diversified. Now when you buy an investment property, 353 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: you're not buying the average house in New Zealand. You're 354 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 3: not going to go up and down with the market. 355 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 3: You're buying one specific property in one specific area that 356 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: is basically not diversified at all, and so the ups 357 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 3: and downs that you get as a property investor will 358 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 3: be much larger than the ones that you see when 359 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: you google median sale price in z for houses, or 360 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 3: look at any graph of NZED house prices and it 361 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 3: will look like, oh, most of the time house prices 362 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 3: are going up, yes, but that's because sometimes Auckland will 363 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: be going up in value, when Wellington's flat. Sometimes christ 364 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 3: Church will be going up in value well and the 365 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: Cargol is flat, and so it will look as if 366 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 3: New Zealand house prices are going up constantly, but you're 367 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: not buying in for Cargol and christ Church and Auckland 368 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 3: and Wellington. When you buy your first property, you're just 369 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 3: buying one specific property and one specific market, and so 370 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 3: the value increase will be much more volatile than the 371 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 3: overall market. And that's a nerdy point, but it's a 372 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 3: very important one to get across. 373 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: You know. I guess it's like there is no average 374 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: houses there, right, that's the that's the thing, right, It's 375 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: very very specific. It's a very bespoke kind of investment 376 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: in that kind of respect. I guess that appeals a 377 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: lot to some people, but to some others that might 378 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: there might be some pressures on there they might be understanding. Gosh, 379 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: I'm now on for a bunch of maintenance. You know, 380 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: the rates bills going nuts. We've touched on climate there. 381 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: I mean, we're getting some quite granular assessments from the 382 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: insurance companies about whether they'll even extend cover over properties 383 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: and so on. I mean, are you finding that from 384 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: the people that open as you talk to the customers 385 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: coming through the door, that that to turn off or 386 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: something that they have to try and get over. Are 387 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: people stepping back as a result of that, or how 388 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: are you helping them deal with some of those challenges. 389 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 3: Well, one of the main things we do at Opus 390 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 3: Partners is we only focus on new built investment properties 391 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 3: and so let me give you an example, if you 392 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: bought an older property that was built in the nineteen 393 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 3: seventies and that property is now on a floodplane, chances 394 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 3: are that property is built quite low to the ground 395 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 3: and will have a reasonable risk of flooding. For a 396 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 3: property to be built on a floodplane, if it's a 397 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 3: new build today, it has to be built up off 398 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 3: the ground. You'll often see when you're looking at townhouses 399 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: they might have steps up to them. Typically it might 400 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 3: need to be about half a meter off the ground. 401 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 3: And so these properties are built to withstand typically a 402 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: one in two hundred year flood. And so that is 403 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: one of the the kind of risk mitigations for our 404 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 3: clients and one of the reasons why they kind of 405 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 3: prefer new builds because they've got to be built to 406 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 3: the current building code. That doesn't mean that new builds 407 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 3: are right for everybody. You don't brand new properties, but 408 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 3: some people prefer them. 409 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: Companies like yours do have a relationship with developers as well. 410 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: That's I mean you ten out of ten for plain 411 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: language you're talking about you don't have to pay us 412 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: because the developer is paying us, and that, I guess 413 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: then creates a relationship risk there as well. You know, 414 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: am I being looked after as the developing being looked after? 415 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: How do you navigate that situation? 416 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple of ways you do it. The 417 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 3: first thing is we split our company in two. So 418 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 3: we've got a property company, OPA's Property, and then we've 419 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 3: got an investment company which is OPA's Partners. And effectively 420 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: these two companies are separate, but they serve different clients. 421 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 3: So effectively OPA's Partners, which gives financial advice, our only 422 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 3: client is the person who wants to get advice OPA's Property. 423 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 3: They specifically focus on the developers. So the first thing 424 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 3: by splitting our company in two and saying this is 425 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: who you serve, this is who you serve, that kind 426 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 3: of puts a really nice line in the sand practically 427 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 3: for our staff members to say, this is what you 428 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 3: care about, this is what you care about. The other 429 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: thing that we mainly do is when somebody buys a 430 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 3: property through us, the commission or the fee that we 431 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 3: get is flat. So what I mean by that is 432 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 3: if you come to us and you buy a nine 433 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollar property or a six hundred thousand dollar property, 434 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: the fee that we get is always the same. It's 435 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 3: quite funny. I had somebody messaged me once and they said, look, 436 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 3: I understand that I'm not incentivized to buy a more 437 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 3: expensive property through you, but isn't your incentive for me 438 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 3: to then buy two cheaper properties? And I was like, oh, 439 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 3: and trying to solve this like one incentive to say, hey, 440 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 3: we don't necessarily want you to buy a more expensive 441 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 3: property if it's not right for you, We've inavertently created 442 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 3: another buyas. But I think the main thing you've got 443 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 3: to do is Kiwis are smart. 444 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: You know. 445 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 3: Kiwis have like this really good bull crap detector, and 446 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 3: so we like to be upfront and honest and put 447 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 3: it out there. One thing that we did was I 448 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 3: completely re wrote our disclosure statements online. So if you 449 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 3: go onto any investment company's website, whether it's like Milford 450 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 3: or Craig's Investment Partners Ask or somebody else, they have 451 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 3: to have like very important legal information online about how 452 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 3: their company is structured, how they get paid in all 453 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 3: of that jazz and I was on Reddit once, the 454 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 3: cispit of the Internet, and I saw that somebody had 455 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 3: linked it and I was like, oh, wow, people will 456 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 3: read this. And so what I did is I went 457 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 3: back and I said to our compliance saying, hey, this 458 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 3: is all in legal jargon. Let's make this plain English. 459 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 3: Let's explain how all of our companies work so that 460 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 3: people can say, well, okay, maybe I do want the 461 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 3: free advice. I understand their commercial biases, but they are 462 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 3: upfront about it, and I trust myself enough to detect 463 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: if they're doing me wrong or not. And so I 464 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 3: went away and I wrote that in plain English, you 465 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 3: wouldn't believe it. People create accounts and write comments on 466 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 3: our legal disclosure statements say thank you for the transparency. 467 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 3: This is really interesting. I'm looking forward to our meeting 468 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 3: and things like that. It's actually really amazing. Kiwis are smart, 469 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 3: and I think if you put the information out there 470 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 3: and say these are all of our biases, this is 471 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 3: where we're coming from, but this is what we offer, 472 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 3: it's up to you to make the decision. I think 473 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 3: people are pretty open to that. 474 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: So this is why you sort of front footed this 475 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: as well. I think one of your podcasts and explain, hey, 476 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: here are some of the common criticisms people have of 477 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: people in our industry, and let me tell you about 478 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: it was that part of that same journey. 479 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 3: I did another video where I went through Reddit comments 480 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 3: with complaints about both my company, OPA's partners and all 481 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: of our competitors as well. And so what our philosophy 482 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 3: is is, well, we should try and tell you about 483 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 3: as many of those bad things upfront, so that you 484 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 3: know about them, so you know what you're getting into, 485 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 3: and then investors can make the right decision for them. 486 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 3: I think all companies should do this. I think there 487 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 3: is this sense that, oh, but if I say the 488 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: bad things about my company, then people won't want to 489 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 3: use me. Well, actually, I think that a company like 490 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 3: Craig's Investment Partners or Milford should say, this is how 491 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 3: many of our customers have lost money over the last year, 492 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 3: this is how many of our customers don't make the 493 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 3: benchmark return over x period. Because then people can make 494 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 3: their own informed decision. And I suppose that's one of 495 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 3: the reasons why we leaned real heavy into the risks. 496 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,239 Speaker 3: At the start of this conversation. 497 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: You're inviting me to ask how many of your customers 498 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: lost Oh. 499 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 3: Do you know what, I don't have that exact number, 500 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 3: but if they purchased in twenty twenty one or twenty 501 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: twenty two. I can guarantee it as almost all of them, 502 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 3: because the market has been really, really bad. And in fact, 503 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: one thing that's hard to see within property investment is 504 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 3: how your property has performed compared to the market. So 505 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 3: I ended up making this really cool tool called the 506 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 3: Market Mover Calculator. You can google it and find it 507 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 3: and you can put your property value in whatever you 508 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 3: purchased it for, and it will show you if it 509 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 3: followed the market perfectly in your local area, what would 510 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 3: it be worth today? And that lets you see in 511 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: a way that I've never been able to get across 512 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 3: to people, well, how is your property doing or performing 513 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 3: compared to the overall market. 514 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: We were talking about developers and so on, and you've 515 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: been great and open about the relationship. Are you looking 516 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: at what they are doing and are they talking to you? 517 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: Are they talking to you about how they raise their money, 518 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: or are they talking to you about the kind of 519 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: ventures that they want to undertake, So that there's a 520 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: bit of a conversation there about, hey, we see a 521 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: trend for smaller but higher value stuff, or there's interest 522 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: in investing in these kind of things To build as well. 523 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 3: Is there that kind of conversation. Well, there has to be, 524 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 3: isn't it. Because the beautiful thing about how we're set 525 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 3: up at Open's Partners is we've also got a property 526 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 3: management team. So not only might somebody choose to say, oh, 527 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to buy a property through you, guys, I 528 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 3: might even get your mortgage through you, but I'm going 529 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 3: to get the tenants as well. And that means that 530 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: we see all of the problems that happen specifically like 531 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: what sort of properties might attract poor equality tenants. So 532 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 3: there's a big trend at the moment for developers to 533 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 3: build studios because they are very profitable, and also you 534 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 3: can sell them at a low price. So I'm talking 535 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 3: about like buying a four hundred thousand dollars or three 536 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars, like very small apartment. Now 537 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 3: that would be very easy to say to invest is 538 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 3: this is a great deal, But the tenants are usually 539 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 3: very very bad. And the reason is because you tend 540 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: to attract tenants who are quite transitory, and so you've 541 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 3: got a lot of moving in moving out. And so 542 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 3: one of the big things we do is talk to 543 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 3: our property managers and say, what's renting really? Well, what 544 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 3: problems do you have with how developers are building properties. 545 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 3: I'll tell you a little story like that's so kind 546 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 3: of obvious. There was a property that one of our 547 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 3: property managers were trying to rent out and there was 548 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 3: a problem with the pantry that this developer hadn't built 549 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 3: a decent enough sized pantry and all of your food 550 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 3: was going to be stored above the sinks. And they said, 551 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 3: this is a real problem, like people are being turned 552 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: off by this. So you bet that we then go 553 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 3: back to the developers and say, well, we can't exit. 554 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: We need to have really good pantries, or we need 555 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 3: to make sure that the bedrooms are this size. And 556 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 3: so there's this conversation about what's happening in the market 557 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 3: and feeding that back to developers. It's really about saying, hey, 558 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 3: can you build the right investments so that it's going 559 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: to be the right fit for our clients. 560 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking as well, the government's really shaken up 561 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: some legislation lately. This is probably more about offshore investors, 562 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: but I'm wondering whether there's an impact on how New 563 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: Zealand investors could be affected by this, they've opened up 564 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: the playing field so that it's easier for foreign investors 565 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: to invest in build to rent properties. They've got to 566 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: be a certain size I think more than twenty dwellings 567 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: and that I don't know whether we're seeing much action 568 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: or a response to that in the market. But are 569 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: you seeing more of those coming onstream or down the tracks? 570 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: And is that an opportunity that New Zealanders might increasingly 571 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: take up and increasingly would that shut the door on 572 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: other kinds of developments potentially? Is it going to direct 573 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: that capital away? 574 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 3: Well, it's a really interesting question because that law change 575 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 3: only happened in February this year, and it's not that 576 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 3: it's a free for all where overseas investors can come 577 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 3: and buy up these properties that have twenty or more dwellings. 578 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 3: They've still got to go through a consent process, but 579 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 3: it's a fast trained consent process. Personally, I haven't seen 580 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 3: any evidence that there has been a rush of overseas 581 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 3: investors designed to come in. But what I would say 582 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 3: is that the build to rent sector, where a company 583 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 3: comes out simplicity, is a really good example of this. 584 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 3: At the moment they say we're going to build these 585 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 3: big apartment blocks and we are going to rent them 586 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 3: out long term. To be honest, I feel quite excited 587 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 3: about that because that is a way, especially if you're 588 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 3: more of a yield based investor, that you might be 589 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: able to get access to property without having to personally 590 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 3: take on that debt, which is one of those big risks. 591 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: So there's an option there, but it's not a space 592 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: that you. 593 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 3: Play in, not personally. But I'm very interested in seeing 594 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 3: how it goes, especially once we open it up to overseas. 595 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: Capital Financial Markets Authority. They are in court, i think 596 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: last week in the High Court trying to get a 597 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: definition of something called we're getting very pointy headed here 598 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 1: the wholesale investor eligibility, which if people have been following it, 599 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: they might know it more from some of the big 600 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: property development companies that got into a bit of trouble 601 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. But this is basically saying, 602 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: if you are not a mum and dad investor, not 603 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: a retail investor that is looking at something with a 604 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: product disclosure statement, you're a wholesale investor, you're rich, or 605 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: you're particularly over a certain level of wealth, you can 606 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: take a higher risk and you can be into these 607 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: higher risk investments. And that's how a lot of property 608 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: companies were accessing capital I guess in the short run 609 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: before they go to the bank, so they could purchase 610 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: land or carry people through the time while they were 611 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: building and so on. I mean tightening that sort of 612 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: stuff up, is that going to change the dynamic? Is 613 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: that what you're hearing as well, or what are your 614 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: thoughts there? 615 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 3: Well, I'm quite excited that the Financial Markets Authority is 616 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 3: trying to clear that up because what is alleged to 617 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 3: have happened is that you might get a mum and 618 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 3: dad investor who sold their farm or sold their house 619 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 3: and now they're cashed up. Then they're scrolling through Facebook 620 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 3: or Instagram and they and add ten percent guaranteed return 621 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 3: and they think that sounds quite low risk. I'm going 622 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 3: to click on that, and then they get a salesperson 623 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 3: on the phone saying, hey, yeah, come and invest it 624 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 3: with us. Now, this is where there is this big 625 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 3: loophole which really needs to close. Even if you weren't 626 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 3: what's called a wholesale investor, where you were a financial advisor, 627 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 3: you were over a certain level of wealth, you could 628 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 3: go across to your financial advisor or your lawyer or 629 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 3: your accountant, and you could self certify that yes, I 630 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 3: understand all of these risks, Can you sign me off, 631 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 3: and I'm going to go invest in that. And the 632 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 3: risk is that people started investing in assets and funds 633 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: that were far too risky for them, and that this 634 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 3: loophole was being misused. Now there is a place for it, 635 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 3: but it's not in getting mom and dad investors to 636 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 3: put their money into developer funds, because that is entirely 637 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 3: risk and we saw that with both Duval and with 638 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 3: Black Robin, where people had put their money in and 639 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 3: they thought it was safe, and now they're not able 640 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 3: to get it out and it is incredibly sad, and 641 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 3: so tightening that up is going to be really good. 642 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 3: I'm encouraging developers to work with the finance companies that 643 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 3: are already out there because you can get access to capital. 644 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 3: What some developers are trying to do, and we're trying 645 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 3: to do and are trying to do, is say, well, 646 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 3: can we raise our own for the average investor that 647 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 3: is too risky and they shouldn't be able to do it. 648 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: It's been a really great talking with you and I 649 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: wondered if we could think about finishing with a look ahead, 650 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: really a long way ahead, when nearing a point in history. 651 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: I suppose where you know, some New Zealanders may be 652 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: in a fortunate position where they inherit a share of 653 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: a property that their parents purchased in a time when 654 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: obviously the interest rates and someone were different, but they've 655 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: enjoyed substantial capital gain over that period, and so there's 656 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,479 Speaker 1: almost like a generational wealth transfer coming. What does that 657 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: mean for the market you're in, for the people that 658 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: you're talking to and the choices that they're having to make. 659 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 3: The people that tend to come and work with Opus 660 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 3: partners tend to be better off financially because you if 661 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 3: you're going to buy an investment property, you've got to 662 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 3: have some income behind you and you've got to have 663 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 3: some wealth behind you. So for your question was very 664 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 3: specifically about the clients that we work with, they're going 665 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 3: to be made better off for this. The people I 666 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 3: worry about other people who are not our clients, and 667 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 3: because the people who tend to go and get financial 668 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 3: advice in New Zealand are those people who have money, 669 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 3: because that is who the industry is set up for 670 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 3: you know, it's very hard to make money as a 671 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 3: business if you're giving advice to people who don't have 672 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 3: a lot of money, right, and so you don't see 673 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 3: and to see as many for profit businesses playing in 674 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 3: that space. But that's who I worry more about, because 675 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 3: those are the sorts of people that aren't going to 676 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 3: have that intergenerational wealth, whose parents perhaps weren't able to 677 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 3: purchase a property many many years ago, and it makes 678 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 3: it so much harder to retire well or to say cool, 679 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 3: I've now got the money where I'm able to buy 680 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 3: a home to live in for myself and grow my wealth. 681 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 3: So that's one of going to be one of the 682 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 3: big questions of our time, and how we deal with that. 683 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: I guess it's how you respond to that worry that's 684 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: as important as anything else, isn't it. How do you 685 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: address that lack or that need. 686 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you what I'm doing personally, which 687 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: is putting out thousands of podcasts and thousands of articles 688 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 3: about what you can do and what the options are. 689 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 3: We're giving a seminar, a property investment seminar down in 690 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 3: christ Church. 691 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 2: Oh. 692 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 3: It would have been a couple of weeks ago and 693 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 3: afterwards a couple of eighteen year olds came up and 694 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 3: they said, hey, look, we don't have rich parents, but 695 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 3: we want to make money through property. We loved your presentation. 696 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 3: Should we buy a new build off here? The answer 697 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 3: was no, No, you absolutely should not. Because you're eighteen 698 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 3: years old and you've got more time than money. You 699 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 3: should start going out or Our advice was think about 700 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 3: going out and flipping properties, something that we don't work with. 701 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: That's sort of strategy we help people use at Opus Partners, 702 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 3: but it's something that for these people, that is the 703 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 3: way we can help you move forward as say, well, 704 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 3: this is the strategy that would best suit your situation 705 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 3: right now, go away and think about it, and yeah, 706 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 3: pull your deposits together. See if you're able to start 707 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 3: doing that to move forward. So it's a tough question. 708 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 3: I don't know what the government should do, but I 709 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 3: know what I'm going to do about it because that's 710 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: all I can focus on, which is continuing to put 711 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 3: out content that hopefully helps New Zealanders. 712 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: And that is a wonderful thing to share. So thank 713 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: you very much McKnight from Opah's partners, and thank you 714 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: for watching for listening Wherever you're listening, where your podcasts iHeart, Spotify, 715 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: Apple or straight off the Shares's app Kumtu. That's us 716 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: for this week.