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Speaker 1: The Prime Minster with us. Crystalph Luxom, good morning, Good morning,

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Speaker 1: Mike Lenham. Lawson will be great. He will be good

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Speaker 1: and I hope he does very well. Now listen, gum

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Speaker 1: Boot Friday, is this a stitung.

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Speaker 2: No, this is about us making sure that we get

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Speaker 2: some good work done and we put more power to it.

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Speaker 2: And that's why we've been proud to support them, because

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Speaker 2: it's about Kiyi's dealing with the young young ky is

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Speaker 2: dealing with their mental health. We're going to have an

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Speaker 2: extra fifteen thousand counseling sessions for those young Kiwi's, which

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Speaker 2: who desperately needed at a pretty desperate time. So look,

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Speaker 2: it's a great organization. I'm proud that we're supporting them.

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Speaker 1: Why did the Order to General say what the Order

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Speaker 1: to General said?

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Speaker 2: Oh look, I mean they're an independent role, they're entitled

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Speaker 2: to their views. But look, we campaigned on this. We

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Speaker 2: then said, we said what we did, we're going to do.

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Speaker 2: We did it, and I'm proud that we have. So

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Speaker 2: you know, it's good that they look at the process

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Speaker 2: and they can raise their raise their advice on it.

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Speaker 2: But the bottom liners, we're doing it. We're backing a gun,

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Speaker 2: big Friday. They do great work and fifteen thousand young

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Speaker 2: chemis get counseling.

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Speaker 1: So you're arguing, basically, we're the government, will do what

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Speaker 1: we want. Bugger the process and he can write all

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Speaker 1: the reports he wants. You're not paying attention in this

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Speaker 1: particular cost.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that, you know,

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Speaker 2: Gunboat Friday we talked about in the campaign as being

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Speaker 2: a great example of a community organization doing good work

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Speaker 2: that could be scaled more and unique work. Actually, and

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Speaker 2: I spoke to a number of young people, you know,

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Speaker 2: and we put the money into that organization. It was

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Speaker 2: also something that you saily first wanted to do both

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Speaker 2: both parties, and I'm pleased that we are because I'm

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Speaker 2: getting access to county.

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Speaker 1: I defend your right to do it because you're the government.

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Speaker 1: But Matt Doucy did he throws officials under the bus

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Speaker 1: when he said, and I quote, Throughout the process, the

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Speaker 1: Minister has sought and received assurances from officials that the

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Speaker 1: implementation option chosen by the Ministry of Health is compliant

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Speaker 1: with government procedural rules. That simply isn't true.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, look, I think you know it was unusual

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Speaker 2: in the sense of we had campaigned on it. We

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Speaker 2: believe it's a great organization. We think it's a good

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Speaker 2: investment in young people, and you know, the new Order

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Speaker 2: to General can write their report, can say that there's

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Speaker 2: some things that they think we could do better, but

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Speaker 2: the bottom line is it's a good organization. We're backing up.

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Speaker 1: What are the odds of you stepping into Wellington Council?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're pretty concerned about it. If I'm honest, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't look great. Their long term plan looks at risk.

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Speaker 2: It's something we're monitoring really closely. I know some of them,

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Speaker 2: Brown in particular, is all over it, and we'll continue

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Speaker 2: to monitor it and if we have to make an intervention,

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Speaker 2: we will.

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Speaker 1: What would have to happen for you to move well.

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Speaker 2: I think we want to understand, you know. I know

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Speaker 2: he'll be looking very closely at the long term plan,

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Speaker 2: which is at risk under the failure to be able

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Speaker 2: to sell the airport. She is willing to the airport

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Speaker 2: and he'll want a pathway and to make sure that

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Speaker 2: they're doing everything they can to be financially responsible to

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Speaker 2: keep rates as low as possible.

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Speaker 1: Can I quote you the Solicitor General in their advice

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Speaker 1: to the prosecution service at the Police. The guidelines asked

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Speaker 1: prosecutors to think carefully about particular decisions. We're a person,

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Speaker 1: whether the victim or defend it is MARII what does

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Speaker 1: that mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean what I'd say is that prosecution decisions

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Speaker 2: should be color blind. But also the prosecution guidelines are

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Speaker 2: independently issued by this list of general. They are someone

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Speaker 2: you know and I really can't get You should ask her,

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Speaker 2: But I mean, I can't really get into it because

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Speaker 2: I've got to respect the other elements of our democracy,

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Speaker 2: the judiciary, and I've got to focus on what I

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Speaker 2: can control, and what we are controlling is restoring law

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Speaker 2: and order.

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Speaker 1: I thought you controlled whether we had race based policy

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Speaker 1: in this country.

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Speaker 2: Well, we made a decision very clear. What we have

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Speaker 2: controlled as tough new gang laws. We've limited, you know,

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Speaker 2: sentencing discounts. We've actually stopped the cottage industry around the

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Speaker 2: preparation of Section twenty seven cultural reports, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we've got.

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Speaker 1: A very race prosecution decision should be with race. That's

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Speaker 1: more justice is the Solicitor general thumbing who knows that you.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, I mean it's an independent role. I encourage

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Speaker 2: you to ask those questions to her. I really you've

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Speaker 2: got to can't get into it because I've got to

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Speaker 2: respect the.

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Speaker 1: But here's my problem. I'm listening to you as a

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Speaker 1: government who I thought was running the country with a

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Speaker 1: series of fairly clear objectives around race, and you say

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Speaker 1: one thing and another thing is done, and I don't

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Speaker 1: understand that.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, what I can do is we can focus

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Speaker 2: on what we can control, which is the executive.

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Speaker 1: Saying, by the way, what we would like to do

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Speaker 1: in this country is have non race based policies. But

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure we'll be able to because I'm expecting

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Speaker 1: pushback from the public service or independent bodies.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think we've had good support from much of

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Speaker 2: the public service. I appreciate not everyone's on board of

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Speaker 2: what we're trying to do, but the reality is the

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Speaker 2: vast majority have and they've been actually supporting us getting

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Speaker 2: our gender.

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Speaker 1: Out the door.

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Speaker 2: I think when you look at those new gangals, that's

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Speaker 2: going to help us cut down on violent crime. When

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Speaker 2: you look at the stop in the section twenty seven

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Speaker 2: College reports, with Harry, Tam and Coe preparing them, we've

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Speaker 2: stopped that. We're putting limits on judges and senencing discounts.

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Speaker 2: You still always be a need for people to consider

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Speaker 2: their individual cases and make the case to judges. But

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Speaker 2: you know, we would expect you know that these guidelines

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Speaker 2: actually are designed to make sure there's good outcomes for

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Speaker 2: people irrespective theirs, ethnicity, and frankly, prosecution should be as

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Speaker 2: I said, color lines.

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Speaker 1: So do you know that's important? Do you know who

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Speaker 1: Anaya Tanu Nai is?

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Speaker 2: No idea.

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Speaker 1: These were a group of people that were consulted by

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Speaker 1: the Solicitor General. They arrived in twenty eighteen as a

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Speaker 1: result of Andrew Little's Justice Summit and they had a

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Speaker 1: meeting and they want to recognize the justice system as

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Speaker 1: settler colonial and to begin decolonizing the brackets in justice system.

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Speaker 1: Those are the people who are advising the Solicitor General

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Speaker 1: before she writes to the Police Prosecution Service. Does that

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Speaker 1: worry you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's just not a view that I

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Speaker 2: would hold. I mean, I think we've got a justice

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Speaker 2: system that it needs to make sure that it prosecutes

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Speaker 2: people in a color bline way. And actually we don't

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Speaker 2: actually get well, well, we need to, I mean that's yeah,

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Speaker 2: but we don't of it well I'm not sure I

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Speaker 2: agree with that. I appreciate there's prosecution guidelines independently prepared

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Speaker 2: by an independence listed general and a branch of democracy

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Speaker 2: that I have to respect, and I can't get into

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Speaker 2: per se. But what I can do is make sure

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Speaker 2: that because you know, they want to make sure prosecution

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Speaker 2: scitions are made free from political influence. I get that,

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Speaker 2: you know that's part of our democracy.

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Speaker 1: Well you want to how is it you're so keen

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Speaker 1: to adhere to the political but not to the race.

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Speaker 1: So you don't want to get you some self in

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Speaker 1: trouble for political but you don't mind getting yourself in

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Speaker 1: trouble for race. Well, I mean you can't avoid these instructions.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're explicit to recognize the justice system is

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Speaker 1: settler colonial and to begin decolonizing the injustice completely.

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Speaker 2: I don't don't agree that that is a reflection of

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Speaker 2: what our justice.

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Speaker 1: But that's in the letter is received by the Prosecution

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Speaker 1: Service of this.

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Speaker 2: Country, and that's list of generals, an independent position and

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Speaker 2: a part of our democracy that I have to respect.

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Speaker 2: And so the question is what I can control is

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Speaker 2: actually making sure that we pass as a parliament as

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Speaker 2: executive laws that make it really clear. Getting ready Section

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Speaker 2: twenty seven reports in that cottage industry is important. Making

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Speaker 2: sure judges can put you know, we put limits on

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Speaker 2: their sentence and discounts is important. Making sure we get

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Speaker 2: tough new gang laws as great, to get down on

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Speaker 2: violent crime, serious and offenders, on retail crime. Those are

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Speaker 2: the things that I can control and I think by

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Speaker 2: a larger justices and will deliver well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, fast Track trans Tandsman Resources, who are one of

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Speaker 1: the people on the short list, claimed they can earn

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Speaker 1: a billion dollars a year. I'm assuming and making the

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Speaker 1: claim of a billion dollars a year. When the committee

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Speaker 1: looked at the fast Track they went, jeez, that looks good.

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Speaker 1: I'll put them on the list. Once they got on

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Speaker 1: the list, they've said that doesn't count anymore. Are you

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Speaker 1: in trouble with this, No, not at all.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've got to grow this country, and we

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Speaker 2: know we've got to get things done, and we've got

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Speaker 2: to be open to economic growth, and so our expert

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Speaker 2: panels will go through the process making sure that they

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Speaker 2: are and you know that they're considering a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of things. Of the economic impacts, the environmental impacts. But importantly,

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Speaker 2: we are prioritizing development and growth. You know, we want

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Speaker 2: to have a high growth country and for that you've

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Speaker 2: got to say yes to stuff.

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Speaker 1: And when you do, you say, there who clearly made

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Speaker 1: it up?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure that would be the case if.

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Speaker 1: I claim I'm making a billion dollars and then two

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Speaker 1: days after I'm on the shortlist, I claim I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to make a billion dollars. Did I make it up?

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Speaker 1: Or did I make just a bit of a whoosie?

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Speaker 1: But oh well, never mind, I'm on the shortlist.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, Mike, I'm not going to go into the

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Speaker 2: individual cases that are in those fast tracks, but what

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Speaker 2: I can tell you is, you know we.

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Speaker 1: The job of the expert panel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the job of the expert panel. No, No,

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying I don't think they have I mean

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Speaker 2: they will make their assessment as to whether that's like.

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Speaker 1: Well what do they make the just have national knowledge

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Speaker 1: or something that was made up.

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Speaker 2: Betweening on whether they have a project of regional or

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Speaker 2: national significance as you know under the fast tracked laws,

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Speaker 2: and what I make no apology for that. I appreciate

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Speaker 2: there'll be controversial product project projects in there. And that's

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Speaker 2: not a bad thing because I'm interested in actually getting

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Speaker 2: things moving and things growing. We want to have higher

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Speaker 2: value growth here in New Zealand. You know, we look

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Speaker 2: at other places that are growing quicker. They got rapidly

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Speaker 2: rising wages relative to our performances. We've got to get

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Speaker 2: things unlocked in agreement. All.

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Speaker 1: All of that's good stuff, but in usurping. As your

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Speaker 1: critics will tell you, some of the laws are indeed

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Speaker 1: not changing the wall so you can fast track. So

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Speaker 1: the scrutiny, isn't there One of the first companies involved

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Speaker 1: in the short list has been found wanting This opens

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Speaker 1: you up to criticism, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, that's a decision for the expert panel to

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Speaker 2: make about their assessment of that.

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Speaker 1: Each end. The expert panel aren't that expert after all,

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Speaker 1: and they keep making mistakes like this, and you've got

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Speaker 1: to defeend them on programs like this, and you'll be

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Speaker 1: putting down the phone in a minute and going bloody.

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Speaker 2: Hell, no, Mike, I never do that. I never do

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Speaker 2: that on the phone, and go bloody, I'll have to

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Speaker 2: talk to you. But no, look, I mean the reality

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Speaker 2: is that there will be controversial projects. There'll be a

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Speaker 2: lot of people who won't like a bunch of projects

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Speaker 2: on that list, but we're going to do them because actually,

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Speaker 2: I think the feedback's been pretty good. People understand that

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Speaker 2: we've got to get things done. When you think about

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Speaker 2: fifty five thousand houses getting built, when you think about

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Speaker 2: thirty percent more growth and electricity generation of our current capacity,

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Speaker 2: that's good. When you think about one hundred and eighty

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Speaker 2: k's of new roads coming down, that's great. So look,

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Speaker 2: there'll be controversy on a number of projects. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've got an expert panel to go through the individual

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Speaker 2: is case by case, and then we need to get going.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time. Christopher likes Jip Prime Minister. For more

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Speaker 1: from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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