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Speaker 1: In studio with us. We have Christopher luxon the Prime Minister. Chris, Hello,

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Speaker 1: how are you well? Congratulations to you first and foremost,

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I feel like you're more used

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Speaker 1: to what's happening right now than I am. So do

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Speaker 1: you want to take charge?

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Speaker 2: You're doing a great job to figureate your button? Just then?

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Speaker 1: Did you notice that?

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Speaker 2: Notice it? I don't know, So just make it, just

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Speaker 2: fake it to you? Make it? Yeah? Is that what

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Speaker 2: I've built a whole career on that?

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Speaker 1: There comes the honest are you're already getting a good

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Speaker 1: stuff out of here? Chris? Thanks for coming in. We've

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Speaker 1: got to talk about the Dunedin Hospital. Why can you

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Speaker 1: guys not find one point one billion bucks just to

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Speaker 1: get these guys what they want? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Look, I mean, look, this is a project. I mean

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Speaker 2: it's frustrating for people, and I get it's frustrating for

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Speaker 2: us as a new government inheriting the project. It started

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Speaker 2: off at one point two billion, it ended up going

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Speaker 2: up to one point six. We put another three hundred

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Speaker 2: million into it to one point nine and then we've

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Speaker 2: got the latest review suggesting it's going to be approaching

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Speaker 2: three billion dollars, which would be without doubt the most

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Speaker 2: expensive hospital in the history of the Southern Hemisphere. So

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Speaker 2: the challenge we've got is that we are very committed

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Speaker 2: to building in new hospital, don't get me wrong, but

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Speaker 2: we've got to do it within the one point nine

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Speaker 2: billion dollar fiscal envelope. Otherwise that means that we can't

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Speaker 2: do from Tarrong, you know, Palmerstan, North Nelson, other regional

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Speaker 2: hospitals we're going to have to deal with.

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Speaker 1: Problem is it the election you guys had to crack

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Speaker 1: at the Labor Party for dicking around on this and you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it took six years and did nothing right.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, aren't you in the same position.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're taking advice really quickly on the two options

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Speaker 2: that we've got, which is essentially stage at the old

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Speaker 2: site or scale back at the new site. But we

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Speaker 2: will deliver a new hospital, but we have to do

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Speaker 2: it within the one point nine billion And what we've

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Speaker 2: seen is cost creep and you know scope creep from

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Speaker 2: a labor government where it's whether it's been school buildings

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Speaker 2: and now the hospital.

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Speaker 1: How much smaller is it going to be.

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Speaker 2: That'll be up to the advice that we can see.

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Speaker 2: You know, like as I said, Shane Ready and Chris

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Speaker 2: Bishop are all over it. They've asked for urgent advice

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Speaker 2: on the two options. As I said, whether it's staged

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Speaker 2: or whether it's scale back, we have to make those choices.

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Speaker 1: See, the difficulty I think you guys have got is

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Speaker 1: that you are making some choices about what to spend

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Speaker 1: money on, and it's all kinds of other stuff. It's codes,

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Speaker 1: it's tobacco, tax cards, it's stuff for landlords. And when

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Speaker 1: it comes to something that Key Wes fundamentally care about,

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Speaker 1: which is.

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Speaker 2: Disagree, I disagree. We put almost thirty billion dollars a

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Speaker 2: year into health. We put sixteen or seventeen billion dollars

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Speaker 2: extra in the most spent ever going into help. So

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Speaker 2: there's plenty of money in health. We're not managing infrastructure

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Speaker 2: projects across the country, whether it's hospitals, whether it's schools,

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Speaker 2: whether it's ferries well at all. That's been a legacy.

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Speaker 2: We've got to get better at that, and we've got

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Speaker 2: to manage the capital spending that we've got. So I'm

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Speaker 2: just said there's plenty of money going in. We've got there's.

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Speaker 1: Plenty of money money going in, But you can find

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Speaker 1: two billion bucks for a road in Wellington.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've got a lot to do in terms of

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Speaker 2: building out that infrastructure. Hospital infrastructures are part of that.

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Speaker 2: We've also got good money coming in. But you just

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Speaker 2: can't have a project go from one point two billion

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Speaker 2: when it started. It would have been good if it

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Speaker 2: had actually been built in the last six years, would

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Speaker 2: have been cheaper than what it would have been now,

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Speaker 2: But you can't have it heading out to three billion

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Speaker 2: dollars and even at one point nine I'll be amongst

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Speaker 2: one of the most successive hospitals.

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Speaker 1: Are you sure the contract is not taking the mickey here?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what the review will identify, right, it's just

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Speaker 2: what options have we got?

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Speaker 1: Are you looking into that specific We're looking.

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Speaker 2: Into all of that. And there's bigger questions I think

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Speaker 2: fundamentally around how we deliver infrastructure in government. Do we

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Speaker 2: think the Ministry of Education is the best place to

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Speaker 2: make decisions about school buildings? We had four hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty school projects from memory that were underfunded to the

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Speaker 2: tune of a couple of billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: And what are you talking about, like a Ministry of

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Speaker 1: Works or something?

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Speaker 2: Well, just yah, is there a different way of actually

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Speaker 2: managing instruct where you got real competency, real expertise, because

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Speaker 2: in fairness, running a health system, running an education system

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Speaker 2: is often different from managing infrastructure and asset management.

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Speaker 1: Do you see treasuries warning last week? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I did, Yeah, I did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how are you going to get us out of

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Speaker 1: the structural deficit?

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Speaker 2: Well, I just say, we have to get out of

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Speaker 2: the structural deficit. We've been on a massive binge and

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Speaker 2: we have to have a little bit of a diet

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Speaker 2: to get the box back in order because at the

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Speaker 2: moment we're actually borrowing more than we're spending.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, how are you going to do it?

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Speaker 2: And we're spending more than we're getting in. So we've

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Speaker 2: got to get back to financial discipline, which is why

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Speaker 2: we just had the chat on the Denetan hospital because

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Speaker 2: you say, right, let the one point one billion go through,

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Speaker 2: but it's one point one billion there, it's two billion

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Speaker 2: on ferries, it's two billion on skill buildings. We've got

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Speaker 2: to have some financial discipline around that. We've got to

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Speaker 2: make sure that we then set up for growth. That's

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Speaker 2: what we're focused on right now, because we've got spending

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Speaker 2: sort of getting gripped up. We'll continue to do that

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Speaker 2: daily practice. That's hard work going forward. We know we've

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Speaker 2: got some limited allowances, but we've got to question the

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Speaker 2: spends that we've already got going on and make sure

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Speaker 2: they're getting returns. We've got inflation coming down, we've got

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Speaker 2: interest rates coming down, we've got business confidence rising. But

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Speaker 2: we need to see the economy grow.

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Speaker 1: But you're going to have to cut as well, aren't you.

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Speaker 1: And I mean Dominic Stevens was saying last week that

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Speaker 1: the level of cuts that you will have to do

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Speaker 1: are unprecedented in New Zealand history.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but possible. We can do a lot more with less,

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Speaker 2: you know. And as we've seen, there's been a lot

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Speaker 2: of dumb and wasteful spending go on across the system

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Speaker 2: for a number of for the last six years.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to get another of all budgets type scenario?

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Speaker 2: Potentially? I think you've seen our approach, which is that

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Speaker 2: you know, we know we've got to deliver a surplus.

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Speaker 2: We know it'll be ten years. I think by the

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Speaker 2: time we get it back into books, and we know

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Speaker 2: we've got to get the books in order. You cannot

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Speaker 2: whether you're a family or ten years from now, No,

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Speaker 2: ten years, it'll be ten years that we would have

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Speaker 2: had a deficit before we get there. But you know,

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Speaker 2: we're doing it in a really sensible, balanced kind of way,

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Speaker 2: and so we're not throwing the country into hard austerity.

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Speaker 2: What we're doing as balancing as you've seen, tax relief

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Speaker 2: for lower middle income workers. Yes, reprioritize twenty three billion

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Speaker 2: of savings within government spending, get it out of the bureaucracy,

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Speaker 2: get it to the frontline services. So we're working through

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Speaker 2: in a very balanced, sort of considered kind of way.

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Speaker 2: But the point is, if you're a family with a budget,

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Speaker 2: you can't keep spending more than you earn. If you're

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Speaker 2: a business, you can't do the same. And government's having

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Speaker 2: to do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Hey, are you surprised by the level of resistance to

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Speaker 1: sending the public servants back to work?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, not really, but you were expecting this, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I get it. People may not like it,

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Speaker 2: but the point is that's what's going to happen. We

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Speaker 2: want people back in the office on a very effective

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Speaker 2: public service. We want it firing on all cylinders, whether

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Speaker 2: you lead large corporates or whether you lead large government employees.

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Speaker 2: The reality is you can maintain a culture for a

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Speaker 2: period of time virtually, but you need people in the office.

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Speaker 1: When are you going to give me my minimum days?

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Speaker 1: They have to be back?

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Speaker 2: This's what I want, Well, we want the starting point

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Speaker 2: needs to be you're in the office, and then if

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Speaker 2: you have formal arrangements that's formally agreed.

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Speaker 1: It's not an entitle So are you saying to me

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Speaker 1: right now it's five days in the office unless you've

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Speaker 1: got some some permission not to be there.

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Speaker 2: Yep, correct, So it's a minimum of five Well, it's

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Speaker 2: a starting you know, we want everyone in the office.

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Speaker 2: That's that's the starter. It's not an entitlement that you

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Speaker 2: just get to work from home.

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Speaker 1: And this is great, Chris, why don't you just say

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Speaker 1: this on the day five days in the office?

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Speaker 2: There you go, Well, no, we said, we said we

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Speaker 2: want people in the office, and if you want to

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Speaker 2: make alternative arrangements, you've got to do that in a

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Speaker 2: formal way. But the point we're trying to make here

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Speaker 2: is that we want, you know, the public service. We've

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Speaker 2: got some great public servants, but we've got a lot

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Speaker 2: that we've got to get sorted in this country. And therefore,

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Speaker 2: if that you know, and here's the research I mean,

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Speaker 2: and the evidence I've seen is that young people, for example,

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Speaker 2: people who are working from home and not getting coaching

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Speaker 2: or feedback or development opportunities as a result. When you

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Speaker 2: go look at career progression of those that work in

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Speaker 2: the office versus those that work from home, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's all those sort of benefits, better communication. A lot

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Speaker 2: of the problems we've got our cross ministries. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with people who are stuck in emergency housing,

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Speaker 2: but school attendance issues with you know, that's the same cohort.

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Speaker 2: We need a cross government response to those sorts of issues.

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Speaker 2: So I'm just saying, look, you've got to come back

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Speaker 2: to the office. That's where we are. That's not inconsistent

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Speaker 2: with what other governments and global leaders doing. And let's

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Speaker 2: get into it. You moved into Premier house yet moved

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Speaker 2: in on the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Hold, well, god, be honest. I mean it's drafty and ancient.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's we finally managed to get new paint, new curtains,

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Speaker 2: and new carpet. That's what the work has been over

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Speaker 2: the last six months. In part of the house, which

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Speaker 2: it was last time when Jim Bolger was there in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. Yes, so the carpet had been stretched I

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Speaker 2: think seven times, pretty fair thread beer. But we managed

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Speaker 2: to get that approved to get that speak. Are you cold,

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Speaker 2: I've got a nice jumper. It's all good.

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Speaker 1: Are you cranking the heat all night?

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Speaker 2: I've got a good jumper, you know, jeez, it's all good.

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Speaker 1: It's get some silicon around those windows, you know.

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Speaker 2: Sort. I had a bit of a working bee on

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Speaker 2: the weekend and so I got some of the tools

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Speaker 2: out and carry on sort of thing things out. But look,

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Speaker 2: it's it's a privileged to be Prome Miister of New Zealand,

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Speaker 2: and it's a privilege to live in part.

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Speaker 1: I love that you're putting a positive spin on this.

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Speaker 1: It is so utterly transparent what you're doing right now.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about the fact that we're obsessed

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Speaker 1: with how much money you've made on your regial property?

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Speaker 2: And yeah, look, I mean I don't know how to

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Speaker 2: explain it any other way, which is you know, I

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Speaker 2: came to politics four years ago. I bought an apartment

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Speaker 2: in October twenty twenty, when the election was twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: I then became Prime minister. I was normally my promises

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Speaker 2: would sell their apartment move into premier house. I couldn't

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Speaker 2: because there was basic maintenance needs to be done, as

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Speaker 2: I said, paint, curtains, carpet some of it, and that's

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Speaker 2: been done. Now I'm moving in and I don't need

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Speaker 2: the apartments. I'm selling it. So that's what John Key

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Speaker 2: did when he became prominent.

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Speaker 1: You feel about the fact that it was all over

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Speaker 1: the TV news last night.

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Speaker 2: I haven't metal well, I've come to expect that, you know,

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Speaker 2: which is is a bit what I can't well, I can't.

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Speaker 2: I mean the bottom lines I said right from the

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Speaker 2: beginning of my first day in politics. You know, yep,

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Speaker 2: I'm a kid who's apparents at school sixteen, I went

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Speaker 2: to university, did well in the world, successful, get it right,

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Speaker 2: and I've chosen to come to politics because I want

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Speaker 2: to add back to New Zealand. So that's my reason

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Speaker 2: for it. But if we're going to criticize people for

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Speaker 2: being successful, and you know, let's be clear, you know

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Speaker 2: I'm wealthy, I'm sorted.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen what you Cinda's doing? Chris? After this,

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Speaker 1: you can you can go on the speaking circuit. No. Look,

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Speaker 1: you can make as much in one gig speaking as

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Speaker 1: you do on your property.

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Speaker 2: Like that won't be my focus. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: other things to do post politics, but right now I

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Speaker 2: am absolutely determined. We have a great future. We've got

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Speaker 2: a great potential on this joint and we just got

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Speaker 2: to get it.

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Speaker 1: Really, we've got a structural deficit to fix. First. Hey, Chris,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much, really appreciate your time. That's Chris

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Speaker 1: Lacks in the Prime Minister. For more from The Mic

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Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news Tour s at b

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