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Speaker 1: Monday morning, the Prime ministers in the studio. Good to

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Speaker 1: see you, Good to see your team. I should Raiser

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Speaker 1: get sacked.

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Speaker 2: That's an opening question as a Crusaders supported No, he saidn't.

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Speaker 2: This is the heat I'm getting on the tech. I am.

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Speaker 2: You know, the fearsome winning all Black team has sort

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Speaker 2: of a problem, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Is it?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean like it's you know, we've we've lost

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Speaker 2: a few teams that we wouldn't have lost to in

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Speaker 2: the past, And so.

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Speaker 1: I ran on the leadership. Yeah, sort of. I'm just

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Speaker 1: asking you as a leader under pressure.

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Speaker 2: No, No, you got to give them, you got to

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Speaker 2: give them more time. Yep.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the polls. I don't want to spend long in

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Speaker 1: the polls because I know your views on poles. But

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Speaker 1: we've got a poll out this morning. The Herald are

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Speaker 1: running a poll this morning saying it's thirty nine a

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Speaker 1: piece on CGT. We got a poll last week saying

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Speaker 1: it was fifty six in favor of CGT. Do you

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Speaker 1: have any read on cgteam whether it's a popular policy

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Speaker 1: and you'll have to fight it or not.

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Speaker 2: Look, I get why people think it's going to be popular,

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Speaker 2: but I can just tell you it's being It's just

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Speaker 2: going to drive more spending, more borrowing, more texting. That's

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Speaker 2: what these guys are.

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Speaker 1: Doing yet again.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you heard Hipkins say he wants to lift

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Speaker 2: the inflation target. He said that he wants to borrow

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Speaker 2: more money, and now he wants to raise more tax

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Speaker 2: This is kind of perverse because they did that future

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Speaker 2: Fund policy where they lose seven hundred million dollars worth

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Speaker 2: of dividends that fund health and education. The money raised

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Speaker 2: here is to give people like you, me and Hipkin's

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Speaker 2: free GP visits. They won't support extending prescriptions out to

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Speaker 2: twelve months, which actually saves real visits to doctors. So

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Speaker 2: you know, it just doesn't make sense to me. And

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Speaker 2: it's actually the last thing this country needs is to

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Speaker 2: tax tax like you know, and it's a capital gains

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Speaker 2: tax on business. They'll say it's not, but it's on

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Speaker 2: every business, on every key we saver account because every

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Speaker 2: business has to operate in commercial premises.

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Speaker 1: The tariffs. We talked to mcclear ly Erron, how big

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Speaker 1: a win around of this are we from the state

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Speaker 1: to ob.

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Speaker 2: Well, red meats our number one export to the US,

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Speaker 2: as you know, and so it's about thirty percent up

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Speaker 2: to twenty five to thirty percent of our total what

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Speaker 2: we sell to the US is back to where it

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Speaker 2: was pre Liberation Day, which is really good outcome for

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Speaker 2: our exporters. There. There's a massive, actual global shortage of

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Speaker 2: red meat around the world, and it's going to take

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Speaker 2: a while for that livestock to come on around the world,

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Speaker 2: probably out to twenty thirty twenty thirty one. One. I sound

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Speaker 2: at the christ at jamp show on Friday talking to

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Speaker 2: silver fer and farmers who sell a lot of stuff

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Speaker 2: into America, and obviously that just helps these guys at

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Speaker 2: big time.

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Speaker 1: You get caught in the hail on Fridays, the races,

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Speaker 1: the races, It was unbelievable over the weekend anyway. Sorry.

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Speaker 1: Elbow claims credit for this. He claims it was his

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Speaker 1: campaigning and law begin with the White House, that got

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Speaker 1: Trump across the line. Do you believe that.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to cast dispersions on Elbow, but I

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Speaker 2: think you know, US trade policies are somewhat mercurial at

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Speaker 2: the moment, so I think it was it was a

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Speaker 2: reality where there is just not enough supply in the US.

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Speaker 2: If you think about the New Zealand beef. We sell

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Speaker 2: it's very high quality into the US. Often the US

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Speaker 2: beef's lower quality. They often mix it up between the two.

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Speaker 2: So no, I think it's a domestic reality in the US.

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Speaker 2: You've seen inflation and prices on red meat in the

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Speaker 2: US going in from twenty five to thirty two percent,

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Speaker 2: So it's just common sense.

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Speaker 1: Actually, we are committed you state to NIT zero. Yep.

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Speaker 1: As we watch the coalition FORLLAR partners, where is a

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Speaker 1: dump net zero? You've got what's in South America at

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Speaker 1: the moment for what purpose given that we're not going

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Speaker 1: to get there.

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Speaker 2: Well, we are going to get to net zero twenty fifty,

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Speaker 2: no doubt about that.

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Speaker 1: You believe that in your yeah, yep, because.

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Speaker 2: When you look at our particular emissions max half of

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Speaker 2: it's in agriculture, but the other halfs in co two

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Speaker 2: thirty percent of manufacturing, twenty percent in transport. And when

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Speaker 2: you look at the innovation pipeline. Genuinely, I've looked at

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Speaker 2: this really closely to say, on the agricultural side of

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Speaker 2: the emission side, we have some incredible inventions and technology.

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Speaker 2: It's coming of put four hundred and fifty million dollars

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Speaker 2: into this agri zero stuff, and there's some really we

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Speaker 2: just need one of those things to come off and

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Speaker 2: we can increase production and productivity of the farming sector

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Speaker 2: and also meet our missions target. So we sold this

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Speaker 2: through technology, and the technology is not just bumper stick

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Speaker 2: as it's real projects out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, But and yet what says before he goes to

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Speaker 1: South America that you guys may well pull the trigger

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Speaker 1: on buying credits internationally, which means you only do that

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Speaker 1: if you're not doing it.

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Speaker 2: Well, we ain't going to send We'll reassure everybody we

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Speaker 2: ain't sending billions of dollars overseas. We are going to

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Speaker 2: do everything we can. You've seen us align a lot

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Speaker 2: of our our thinking to our domestic targets. Are things

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Speaker 2: that we can control. We made some changes to the

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Speaker 2: ets recently. Our INDC two targets aligned with our domestic targets.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly as it should be.

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Speaker 1: So if you can't do it that way, would you

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Speaker 1: buy credits, Well, we will give it a good go.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about the NDC twenty thirty target. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're going to give it a good go.

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Speaker 1: But in giving it a good go and failing and

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Speaker 1: falling and still being committed to net zero. Well, what

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Speaker 1: I'm not.

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Speaker 2: Going to do, just so a crystal clear I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to take one is I don't think New Zealand

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Speaker 2: coming out of Paris is a good idea because we

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Speaker 2: lose a huge amount of We get damaged badly from

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Speaker 2: competitive countries and from big, large multinationals. The second thing is, though,

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Speaker 2: is that we've made a commitment very clearly, is that

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Speaker 2: we're not putting agricultural pricing into place. We're not going

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Speaker 2: to move farmers out of New Zealand into Chile or

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Speaker 2: any other country on Earth. It's worse. Our farmers are

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Speaker 2: the most productive, the most carbon efficient, So we're not

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Speaker 2: moving jobs out of this country because every time we

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Speaker 2: we're not on a punished farmers as a result of

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Speaker 2: doing that, which is what the last lot wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: So we will do everything we can toit that target.

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Speaker 2: And if we don't hit the target, then so be it.

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Speaker 2: We roll into DC twenty thirty five, which is align

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Speaker 2: with our international target targets.

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Speaker 1: Would you concede the tide of starting to go out

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Speaker 1: on the argument in general globally, Well, I.

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Speaker 2: Think there's so many targets, Mike, and the frustration is

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Speaker 2: essentially dourn and Shaw went off internationally and disconnected the

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Speaker 2: international commitments. Essentially, I think from the domestic commitments. Our

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Speaker 2: domestic commitment we enshrined in legislation, had full support across

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Speaker 2: the Parliament for twenty fifty. We're on track to deliver

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Speaker 2: net zero twenty fifty. Some of the reports could say

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Speaker 2: you might even get there four five, six years early,

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Speaker 2: and we've done practical, common sense things to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we're on track with that. You've seen us align

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Speaker 2: our international The next Paris commitment is in DC twenty

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Speaker 2: thirty five, that is now on the same track as

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Speaker 2: our twenty fifty domestic target, and that's smart. And so

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Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think we're doing I don't have

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Speaker 2: any intention whatsoever of coming off the twenty fifty target

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Speaker 2: like I've seen the Australian Coalition announced last week.

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Speaker 1: D because we can't do that. No, okay, Aco, Mike Burgess,

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Speaker 1: did you see what he said last week about China? No,

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Speaker 1: let me read it. And when they penetrated your networks,

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Speaker 1: he refers to China, when they penetrated your networks, they

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Speaker 1: actively and aggressively map your systems and seek to maintain persistent,

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Speaker 1: undetected access that enables them to conduct sabotage at a

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Speaker 1: time and moment of their choosing. And he says that

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Speaker 1: moment is now. His reference was to fire by his partners.

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Speaker 1: So not only Australia but us as well. Are you

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Speaker 1: aware of that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're very aware of high levels of foreign interference.

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Speaker 1: Why aren't you telling us this? Why is he telling

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Speaker 1: me this through the Australian media and we aren't?

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Speaker 2: Well, we are actually if you look at the statements

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Speaker 2: from our intelligence agency chiefs, we've been talking more and

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Speaker 2: more transparently and more openly about this when there's been

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Speaker 2: an attack on our parliamentary systems. I was the first

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Speaker 2: promised to call it out, and I've said to President

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Speaker 2: she merely, we will continue to call these things out

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Speaker 2: publicly or privately.

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Speaker 1: So they're in, and they're in now, and they're able

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Speaker 1: to sabotage us at their choosing. Well, so what he

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Speaker 1: says is correct.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying to you, I agree that there is massive

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Speaker 2: levels of foreign interference levels that we haven't seen before.

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Speaker 2: I can reassure you that we are doing everything we

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Speaker 2: can to make sure we toughen up our defenses. Where

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Speaker 2: we see it, we call it out. You're seeing us

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Speaker 2: get sensitive about the Cook Islands because we have security

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Speaker 2: and intelligence responsibilities there. You're seeing us. You know, there are

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Speaker 2: some amazing technology companies. I was actually at one last

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Speaker 2: week's starboard that are actually mapping things like undersea cables

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Speaker 2: and mapping ships and areas around undersea cables. There's a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of smart stuff that's now going on. We're

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Speaker 2: taking this really seriously. I think we've been way too complacent.

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Speaker 2: But since we came to power, that's been one of

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Speaker 2: the big focus areas for me as Minister of Intel.

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Speaker 1: So where's the SI? Isn't this? Because it struck me

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Speaker 1: that this guy, this guy made headlines in Australia and

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Speaker 1: good on him for doing so, and he seems to

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Speaker 1: be one of those blokes who comes out very publicly

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Speaker 1: and here are the issues we're facing. But when he

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Speaker 1: involves fire eyes, I e us, Yes, where are we?

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Speaker 1: Why are one of the headlines all over the place?

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Speaker 1: Why don't you telling us? Well?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I mean I've seen what our heads of

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Speaker 2: sa S and GCSB have said publicly and they've done

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Speaker 2: actually been very very straight up about it as well.

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Speaker 2: And I think whether I don't know why it's not

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Speaker 2: reported on as much as it may be in Australia,

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Speaker 2: but I can tell you at the time, you know,

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Speaker 2: certainly the gallery and people understood that these guys were

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Speaker 2: talking about things in different ways.

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Speaker 1: The white thing he pushed back from schools. There's a

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Speaker 1: couple of hundred schools. Now this is the board direction.

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Speaker 1: So a couple of hundred schools are basically telling you

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Speaker 1: to nap off. Are you running the country or are

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Speaker 1: the schools running the country?

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Speaker 2: Well, we are, and we're making it very clear to

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Speaker 2: boards your number one priorities get your kids to school

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Speaker 2: and teach them the basics brilliantly. I do not care

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Speaker 2: about anything else. That is what you have to be doing.

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Speaker 2: That is job number one. We are in such a

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Speaker 2: parlor state around attendance and academic achievements, and I'm really

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Speaker 2: passionate about this. This is sort of one of my

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Speaker 2: motivations are coming into politics, is that how on earth

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Speaker 2: you call yourself a first world country if you can't

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Speaker 2: have over half your kids not going to school regular,

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Speaker 2: which is what we.

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Speaker 1: Start agree more. And yet when the harsh thing the

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Speaker 1: first thing, I mean, the teachers is a different story

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Speaker 1: on the curriculum, but the first thing the boards do,

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Speaker 1: two hundred of them, is go, we hear what you

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Speaker 1: say and we're not going to do it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what does it tell you about, Well, we've got two.

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Speaker 2: And a half thousand schools, but it just says that's

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Speaker 2: what parents should be pushing those boards damn hard on

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Speaker 2: because I'm assuming then they've got outstanding academic achievement, outstanding

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Speaker 2: attendance records. That is what they have to be focused on.

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Speaker 1: It's what you're up against, though, isn't it. There is

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Speaker 1: a mindset in this country that people will die on

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Speaker 1: a hellover race as opposed to educating the kids.

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Speaker 2: It's just the wrong conversation to be having. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about our kids and their future and their

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Speaker 2: ability to access high paying jobs. There is a heap

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Speaker 2: of them out.

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Speaker 1: There in the world.

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Speaker 2: We're really serious about it. You ask why Australia is

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Speaker 2: thirty five percent wealthier than New Zealand bhy Singapore is

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Speaker 2: now twice as wealthy, Irelands, twice as wealthy. We have

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Speaker 2: to get better educated. And so you know, the boards

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Speaker 2: need to wake up. They need to get very very

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Speaker 2: focused on their core challenge and tasks, which is to

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Speaker 2: hold that school team accountable and leadership team accountable for

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Speaker 2: delivering attendance and academic achievement. Period.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time, Chrystopher Likes and Prime Ministers. For more

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Speaker 1: from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news Talks

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Speaker 1: at B from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio