1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Now to the methane targets. The government's new methane targets,

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,680
Speaker 1: released over the weekend haven't been universally welcomed. Climate scientists

3
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,479
Speaker 1: and environmental groups have accused the government of not being

4
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,280
Speaker 1: ambitious enough and aiming for a low target target for

5
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 1: political reasons. The government says the fourteen to twenty four

6
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,400
Speaker 1: percent range actually has a basis in science. Now, Nathaniel

7
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: Mela Milia sorry, is the director of Climate Prescience and

8
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 1: a senior research fellow at Victoria University and is with us. Now, hey, Nathaniel, hello,

9
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 1: he how are you? I'm very well, thank you mate.

10
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,120
Speaker 1: Is there good scientific grounding here?

11
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,239
Speaker 2: Right? So there is good scientific grounding, but there is

12
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,920
Speaker 2: a tach to that question. I can elaborate if.

13
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:40,839
Speaker 1: You're likely to please do.

14
00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,440
Speaker 2: Thank you, Becky. So the science that got the numbers

15
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 2: is what's conducted by the independent Methane Panel and those

16
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 2: people that did that, the scientists are involved in the

17
00:00:54,760 --> 00:01:00,960
Speaker 2: last and the current IPCC climate reports right internationally trusted

18
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 2: and the internationally leading to scientists. The calculators and models

19
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,679
Speaker 2: they used to calculate the numbers are the same that

20
00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,839
Speaker 2: are used in those high PCC reports. Okay. So the science,

21
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:18,040
Speaker 2: the numbers they got perfectly valid scientifically. Where the politics

22
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,960
Speaker 2: and maybe some of the lobbying comes in to it

23
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,320
Speaker 2: is twofold. It's what questions you ask and what numbers

24
00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 2: you want to use when you come out.

25
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 1: Of that such as such as.

26
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 2: So the very fact that you can ask the question

27
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 2: of maintaining warming levels or no further warming, for me, say,

28
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,399
Speaker 2: is a scientific thing. It's because the way methane behaves

29
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 2: compared to carbon dioxide. If I put a molecule of

30
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,120
Speaker 2: metha in the atmosphere, it drops out in twelve years.

31
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,040
Speaker 2: So you know we've had cow herds for more than

32
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,560
Speaker 2: twelve years, so you can you can still emit me

33
00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 2: saying and not be producing warming. You can't ask that

34
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 2: same question for carbon dioxide that comes out of our

35
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,800
Speaker 2: exhaust because that stays in the atmosphere for a thousand years.

36
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 2: So every molecule of that does for what means okay.

37
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,560
Speaker 2: So where so where the interpretation comes in is also

38
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 2: in the results. Right. So the government had a choice

39
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 2: of which results they wanted to choose, and the methan

40
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,320
Speaker 2: panel gave them a range of results based on what

41
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 2: the future atmosphere is going to.

42
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,919
Speaker 1: Look like, Okay, so and so, would you take issue

43
00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,080
Speaker 1: then with the fourteen to twenty four percent range and

44
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,000
Speaker 1: maybe just stick to twenty four percent, no lower?

45
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,920
Speaker 2: I think I think I would That is what that

46
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,320
Speaker 2: is what I would do. I mean, I've championed the

47
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,880
Speaker 2: fact that the governments had this review. I've championed fact

48
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,760
Speaker 2: that we should be treating methane differently to carbon dioxides,

49
00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 2: and especially with our you know, our makeup of greenhouse

50
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 2: gases and our huge dairy search, I think they should

51
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,639
Speaker 2: be treated differently because one, it's it's fair to farmers,

52
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 2: it's fair to farming family. It's they're so different in

53
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,280
Speaker 2: the way, in the way they live in the atmosphere.

54
00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,720
Speaker 2: But I think the government has shot itself in the

55
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,440
Speaker 2: foot here a bit. I think it could have chosen

56
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,120
Speaker 2: tosing that twenty four percent. It could have said, look,

57
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 2: we've got the scientific backing here. It probably wouldn't have

58
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,679
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have got as much flatform, you know, the

59
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,919
Speaker 2: left leaning side, the environmentalist, and it would have it

60
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,839
Speaker 2: probably would have made everyone happy and they could have money.

61
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,800
Speaker 1: Well, Theniel, how realistic is it? Because if I'm listening

62
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 1: to farmers who are saying, even achieving fourteen percent the

63
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 1: lower end of the rage, it's actually kind of a

64
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 1: bit of an ask of them, right, So how would

65
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,240
Speaker 1: they get to twenty four percent realistically? How would farmers

66
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 1: manage that?

67
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 2: Well? I would like to see the government chucking a

68
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 2: whole heap of money towards farming families. You know, these

69
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 2: guys don't have an easy job. It's not a money

70
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 2: for work their far so money can go into research

71
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,880
Speaker 2: into me saying inhibitive.

72
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 1: But it does, it does, and I love the idea,

73
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,840
Speaker 1: but it doesn't solve the problem immediately, does it? So

74
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,120
Speaker 1: how do you get the methane down immediately.

75
00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,160
Speaker 2: The mean thing down immediately? Yeah, well, these targets are

76
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 2: twenty fifty targets, so so you don't really need to

77
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:00,640
Speaker 2: do things.

78
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,480
Speaker 1: Right now, Daniel. But do you believe that even if

79
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 1: we check money in right now, we would have the

80
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 1: science there for twenty fifteen?

81
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 2: Yes, I think so. I think the way science are fast,

82
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 2: science is meeting. If you look back twenty years where

83
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,000
Speaker 2: we were with science, it's it's amazing. So I have

84
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 2: paced that.

85
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,839
Speaker 1: We can do some core things there, okay, and we can.

86
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,719
Speaker 2: We can fill up the economy with pouring money into innovation.

87
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:23,680
Speaker 2: That's what New Ualan does.

88
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,159
Speaker 1: There also is the reast of the world on board

89
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 1: with treating me so in the way that we do.

90
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 2: The mess of the world is not in the same

91
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 2: position that we are. I mean that there's most similar

92
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 2: government to ours and environment to us is Ireland, and

93
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 2: we share a lot of conversations with Ireland. They've got

94
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,680
Speaker 2: a big kind of agriculture sets and dairyhead We share

95
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,039
Speaker 2: a lot of these conversations. And we're on the sharp

96
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,440
Speaker 2: end of the sphere here when when we're using brand

97
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,720
Speaker 2: new science and brand new thinking to find out what

98
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 2: should we do with our unique makeup to do these

99
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 2: sorts of things. So we haven't really got a lot

100
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 2: of all our countries to compare to and we're being

101
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,919
Speaker 2: a leader here, and I think the gouplem could have

102
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 2: been a bit more of a leader in this. I

103
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,040
Speaker 2: think it is kind of missed that opportunity, which is

104
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 2: a bit sad.

105
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,479
Speaker 1: Nathaniel, it's fascinating to talk to you. Thanks for running

106
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 1: us through. Nathaniel, Melia Victoria University Senior Research Fellow. For

107
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 1: more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks.

108
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,600
Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

109
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:19,680
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio