1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Kyotra. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: Zealand may be on the cusp of another measles outbreak. 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Health en Z has said the risk of further measles cases, 5 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: contacts and exposures across the country remains very high. The 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: confirmation of new cases unconnected to international travel, though, has 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: experts worried. Today on the front Page, University of Canterbury 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: Senior lecturer in epidemiology, Anna Howe is with us to 9 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: discuss what you need to know. So, Anna, how likely 10 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,319 Speaker 1: is it that measles has started spreading through communities from 11 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: what we've seen so far? 12 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: Oh, I think that's it's not even likely that's what's happening. 13 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: We've seen that now with the cases crop up at 14 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: Wellington High School. So I think we have got community 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 2: transmission and we're sitting in an extremely precurious position. 16 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: What's the importance of knowing whether it's linked to overseas 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: travel or not. 18 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: So the importance for us is typically with that index 19 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 2: case because New Zealand doesn't actually have measles endemic, so 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 2: we rely basically measles for us is an important disease, 21 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: and so that's why it's incredibly important for us and 22 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: incredibly important for people who are traveling to places where 23 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: there are no and outbreaks to make sure that their 24 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: vaccination status is up to date and that they're cognizant 25 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: when they come home if they're feeling unwell. 26 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Do you reckon we're good at that or not? 27 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: If I think it's hard. I think people have much 28 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: greater awareness now post COVID because we've all been through 29 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: the understanding isolation and trying to protect people that we 30 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 2: love and being cognizant of illness. I think though there's 31 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: a lot of fatigue that's happened post COVID as well, 32 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: and so with the habits always slip right. But also 33 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: I think some people have had negative experiences with that 34 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: as well. I think most people genuinely mean, well, it's 35 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: just sometimes we don't think about things. 36 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about what happened in twenty 37 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: nineteen and perhaps how our situation now might mirror that. 38 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: So twenty nineteen was one of our largest outbreaks in 39 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 2: a really long time, and that was a direct result 40 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: of under immunization and so having what we are or 41 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: what I refer to as PAULS is susceptibility, right, So 42 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 2: you have groups that are costed together and allow that 43 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: measles to take hold and then it just it requires 44 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: vaccination again to put a dampner on that. And what 45 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: we saw was a lot of disease, and we saw 46 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: about a third of our cases requiring hospitalization care, which 47 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 2: is quite a lot. We saw a lot of very 48 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: serious cases, so they required intensive care, particularly in the 49 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: very young. We actually had three infants that required EKMO, 50 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: which is the circulatary support, so very very unwell. We 51 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: had three cases who had in caphalitis, and we had 52 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: two pregnant people who lost who lost their babies, and 53 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: so it was a really really severe event directly related 54 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: to our underimmunization and we unfortunately are in the same, 55 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: if not slightly worse place with our immunization coverage at 56 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: the moment, and so we could see exactly the same 57 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: thing happen again, if not worse. 58 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, what level of vaccination coverage does New Zealand have 59 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: now and what ideally should we be at. 60 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 2: So at the moment, our childhood schedule provides MMR at 61 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: twelve fifteen months, and so we use our twenty four 62 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: month coverage milestone, isn't indicator that we've got that people 63 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: have got those two doses. So that twenty four month 64 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 2: coverage at the moment is sitting at eighty two percent, 65 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: that's a total, and we need to be at ninety 66 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: five percent in order to have that community coverage. The 67 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: problem is is like I to talked about before, with 68 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: the pools of susceptibility, so that coverage is not uniform 69 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: across the community even at eighty two percent, and so 70 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: we have areas like Northland and Lakes that have got 71 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: really low coverage down at sort of sixty two and 72 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: seventy three percent. And then we have other areas in 73 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: New Zealand. Fortunately some of those are in the Wellington region, 74 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: so het Up Valley capitally in Coast and Canterbury for 75 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: example have ninety percent coverage. And so we have, Yeah, 76 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: we have this under immunization, which means that we do 77 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: have these pools of susceptibility. 78 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: How do we like, what do we do to help 79 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: that more awareness or I mean I suppose it's a 80 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: question that's been pondered for years and years and years. 81 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: Yes, and It's not technically my area of expertise, but 82 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: I work with a lot of colleagues who are in 83 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: this space, and there's a lot of reasons why we 84 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: have low coverage, particularly I mean ours, we're starting to 85 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: go down even before the COVID pandemic, but the pandemic 86 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: definitely interrupted immunization schedules, and as a result, we've also 87 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 2: seen grown vaccine hesitancy. We've seen a lot of that 88 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: media from overseas as well being played out in New Zealand, 89 00:05:55,160 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: and so I think there's I mean, I advocate compassion 90 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: if people are hesitant, actually trying to understand why they 91 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: might be hesitant, because there are lots of different reasons 92 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 2: for that to be the case. But also there are 93 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: lots of system problems, like healthcare system problems that also 94 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: contribute to our underimmunization. And so it's all very well 95 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 2: and good to have a target, and we've had immunization 96 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 2: targets before, and the healthcare system works really hard to 97 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: try and achieve those targets, but that comes at a 98 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: cost as well, and you get our worker fatigue and 99 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: burnout along the way, and so we have to manage 100 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: both the healthcare system side of things really well as 101 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: well as the individual level. So if you're having conversations 102 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 2: with people, it's just really important, I think, to be 103 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 2: compassionate and listen to what they have to say, reiterate 104 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: what we know scientifically, and then give them space to 105 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: actually think about that and make a decision. 106 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: The vaccine which protects us against measles, comes into combinations 107 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: called the MMR so measles and months rebell it, so 108 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 3: you actually get protected against three different diseases at the 109 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 3: same time, which is great news. MEMR vaccine is supposed 110 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 3: to stimulate your body to be able to fight off infection. 111 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 3: They if it sees the disease in real time, and 112 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 3: so that potentially means that you can have some of 113 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: those side effects that occur when you are vaccinated, getting 114 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: a temperature that you may actually get a rash afterwards 115 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: for the vaccine. That's actually quite common. Some people might 116 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: find their glands actually go up after having the vaccine, 117 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 3: and some people they can have a little bit of 118 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: achy body. For some people that symptoms may occur in 119 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 3: the first few hours, for others it can occur up 120 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 3: to a week or two weeks later, but actually they 121 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 3: stay well with it, so despite having some mild side effects, 122 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 3: they actually stay very well. 123 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: So the vaccine, it's the MMR vaccine, and you need 124 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: two of them. How can you How easy is it 125 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: for a New Zealander to check whether they actually had 126 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: those two? 127 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: So if you're old like me, you might have to 128 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: dig out your plunket book, which I actually did, as 129 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: did I out of curiosity. Yep, but even I in 130 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen decided that I would just get a third 131 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: dose because I fit into the age group where maybe 132 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: there was waning immunity and so yeah, so pulling out 133 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: your old health records. If you're old like me, or 134 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: if you're born from two thousand and five onwards, the 135 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: immunization register should have captured that, so you should be 136 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: able to talk to your healthcare provider. And I believe 137 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: if you've got access to the electronic my health records, 138 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: you should be able to see what your statuses as well. 139 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: But generally speaking, if you're not pregnant or immuno compromised, 140 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: then just get a third dose. So you can get 141 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: a dose even if it's through a third one. 142 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, cool, Yeah, Because I had the awkward conversation 143 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: of ringing my dad asking him him not knowing, and 144 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: then him having to dive through a thousand boxes to 145 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: try and find because I'm Australian, right, so even people 146 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: from other countries need to be checking this. But you're 147 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: saying that even if you don't have that information at hand, 148 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: it's all good if you get a third dose. 149 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: That's correct and I think too, so you can get 150 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: what we call SEROH testing done and that will check 151 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 2: the antibody status or the level of protection that you have. 152 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 2: But because for the most part, there's no harm in 153 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: getting that third dose, it's just easier just to get 154 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: that done. 155 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: In terms of what happened in twenty nineteen to now, 156 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: and I know it's a tricky question because COVID has 157 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: happened in between that time, but do you reckon we've 158 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: learned anything? 159 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: Yes, we did. There are some very nice reports that 160 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: have been produced about the twenty nineteen outbreak, and we've 161 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: also had the Immunization Task Force put out recommendations as 162 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: well about the New Zealand childhood schedule. It's just they 163 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: require system changes and so that's the hard part. 164 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, what out of all of those recommendations that you've 165 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: seen what one do you reckon we should do tomorrow 166 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: if we could sign it off, get it done. 167 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: I'm really in favor of what was trying to be 168 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 2: achieved with the health reforms, and that was giving communities 169 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: the ability to decide how best to help their communities. 170 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: And we definitely learned that from COVID as well, that 171 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 2: when we funded communities to decide how best to help 172 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 2: their communities, we had a lot of success. And so 173 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 2: I think that would be the most cost effective way 174 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 2: to go to get good outcomes. 175 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: And let's not forget in twenty nineteen as well, measles 176 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: imported from New Zealand resulted in five seven hundred ish 177 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: cases in some more and that included eighteen hundred hospitalizations 178 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: and eighty three deaths from measles, mostly children under five. 179 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: So not only do we have to think about our 180 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: own communities, but it's important to think about our Pacific 181 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: neighbors as well. 182 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: Hey, absolutely, it is horrifying that we were responsible for 183 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: such a horrific event, and we have a responsibility as 184 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: caretakers in supporters of our Pacific nations to make sure 185 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: that that's not actually happening. So particularly important for people 186 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 2: who have holidays booked overseas to check out their vaccination 187 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: status and or just get a dose. 188 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: So what symptoms should people be aware of? 189 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: How does it start? 190 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: When should you be you know, when should alarm bells 191 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: start going off? 192 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: I mean alarm bell should start going off if you 193 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: are feeling unwell and you have been a contact of 194 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: a case, or if you've been overseas somewhere recently. Because 195 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: the important part to notice that you can actually be 196 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 2: contagious before you have symptoms. So that's fun. But it 197 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: begins with a fever and a cough and a running 198 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: nose and sore red eyes, and then you will probably 199 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: start to see a rash which typically starts on the 200 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: face and then moves down the body. And so most 201 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 2: people will feel really really crap for a while, and 202 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: particularly our small peppy will be very very unhappy. And 203 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: then you run into getting complications, so diarrhea, pneumonia, but 204 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 2: also you can go into like cornial ulcerations potentially a 205 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 2: leading to blindness. You've got titus media or air infections 206 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 2: which can have implications if they're really bad. And then 207 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: you start getting into the more severe end of in carefulitis, 208 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: so that fever cough, running nose, or red eyes. Yeah, 209 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 2: big clues. 210 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it must be so difficult, especially around the 211 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: seasons changing as well, when people are getting you know 212 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: those flu like cold like symptoms. I've got hay fever 213 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: at the moment, which is super fun, but really recognizing 214 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: a between A and B. Hey like, So, if you're 215 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: feeling any of those things, you've been linked to a case, 216 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: or you've traveled overseas, it's really important to maybe check 217 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: the Ministry of Health website, check out those locations of interest, 218 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: I suppose. 219 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: Oh, that's great advice. The other thing I would recommend 220 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 2: too is you can call Healthline and have a chat 221 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 2: with them because they'll guide you too. And that also 222 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 2: means that you don't have to go into your GP 223 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: or the hospital and be potentially contagious there too. So yeah, 224 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: so have a look see if it is. And I 225 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: mean it's always better to err on the side of 226 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 2: caution with this, so you know, isolate yourself if you 227 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: think that you it might actually be that thing, and 228 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: get somebody asked to bring over some goodies for you 229 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 2: to hang out with by yourself. 230 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and with cat in terms of I know that 231 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: the Ministry of health or health in New Zealand rather 232 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: is saying that there are obviously burther cases, there's a 233 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: risk of them, and exposures across the country remains high. 234 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: Is New Zealand on the cusp of another measles outbreak? 235 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: Or are we in it? 236 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: I think at this point it's safe to say that 237 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: we're in an outbreak. It's just a case of waiting 238 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: a few more weeks, probably to see how bad it's 239 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: going to get. Because people talk about how infictious measles is. 240 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: It's one of our most infectious diseases, and so in 241 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: an unvaccinated population that one person can potentially make twelve 242 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: to eighteen other people sick. And again this comes back 243 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 2: to having those pools of unvaccinated people or grouped together 244 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: and then suddenly, yeah, we're off. It's like I describe 245 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: it sort of as tender in a wildfire situation. 246 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: If we're looking at case numbers, what would be considered 247 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: quite bad? 248 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: Well, personally, I would consider one case really bad because 249 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 2: every case has the potential to have those severe complications, 250 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: and also nobody makes it out of this without some 251 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: kind of lasting consequence. So our research has shown that 252 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 2: for those cases in twenty nineteen that even those who 253 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: were based in the community and what we considered mild 254 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 2: had sort of a knock on effect where they didn't 255 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: have the immunity that they had had beforehand. So compared 256 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 2: to healthy controls, those cases had more non measles hospitalization 257 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: events and pharmaceutical dispensing in the four years posts in fiction. 258 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: So I guess I don't think anyone's coined it as 259 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: long measles, but we're talking about the same sort of 260 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: situation as long COVID that are even surviving. That infection 261 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: itself doesn't come with our other consequences further down, so 262 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: I would argue one case is bad. Thanks so much 263 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: for joining us, Anna, You're welcome. Thank you. 264 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 265 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 266 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: at enzidherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 267 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 268 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page 269 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 270 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.