1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,773 Speaker 1: from News Talks at. 3 00:00:11,653 --> 00:00:15,733 Speaker 2: B nineteen to twelve. Sarah Wynn Williams, the New Zealand 4 00:00:15,813 --> 00:00:19,293 Speaker 2: former executive of Facebook, made headlines worldwide when her book 5 00:00:19,453 --> 00:00:23,573 Speaker 2: Careless People was published, but of course she was banned 6 00:00:23,773 --> 00:00:26,773 Speaker 2: because of legal action from doing any publicity around the book. 7 00:00:26,813 --> 00:00:29,373 Speaker 2: Now our book reviewer Kathy Raines has read Careless People. 8 00:00:29,373 --> 00:00:32,133 Speaker 2: When she's with us now killder Catherine Morning Jack, So 9 00:00:32,173 --> 00:00:32,853 Speaker 2: tell us about it. 10 00:00:33,933 --> 00:00:36,373 Speaker 3: So, look, it's really interesting, as you say, Sarah and Clark. 11 00:00:36,413 --> 00:00:39,853 Speaker 3: She's a former meta Facebook employee, and she talks very 12 00:00:39,893 --> 00:00:42,173 Speaker 3: much in the beginning of her book, actually she's attacked 13 00:00:42,213 --> 00:00:45,493 Speaker 3: by a shark. It actually kind of explains a lot 14 00:00:45,493 --> 00:00:47,533 Speaker 3: about her as a person in the way she was 15 00:00:47,693 --> 00:00:51,573 Speaker 3: right was raised. And she really describes herself as an idealist, 16 00:00:51,613 --> 00:00:53,613 Speaker 3: and that's kind of worth having in the back of 17 00:00:53,613 --> 00:00:56,173 Speaker 3: your mind when you're reading this book, because she's this 18 00:00:56,253 --> 00:00:59,213 Speaker 3: theory of trying to change Facebook from the inside. And 19 00:00:59,253 --> 00:01:03,773 Speaker 3: so she spent from twenty eleven to twenty seventeen essentially 20 00:01:03,813 --> 00:01:07,773 Speaker 3: working in global policy for Facebook, and she gives readers 21 00:01:07,773 --> 00:01:09,733 Speaker 3: a very behind the scenes look at what it was 22 00:01:09,813 --> 00:01:12,813 Speaker 3: like working for Meta and people like Mark Zuckerberg and 23 00:01:12,893 --> 00:01:17,653 Speaker 3: Cheryl Sandberg and Joel Kaplan, and she talks very very 24 00:01:17,693 --> 00:01:21,653 Speaker 3: much about how toxic that workplace environment is. And then 25 00:01:21,853 --> 00:01:25,133 Speaker 3: she looks at Facebook's global dealings and their desire to 26 00:01:25,213 --> 00:01:28,093 Speaker 3: have an app available in every country and the process 27 00:01:28,133 --> 00:01:31,613 Speaker 3: that entailed them to grow that, and she naively, I think, 28 00:01:31,693 --> 00:01:34,293 Speaker 3: thought that Facebook was doing it for good in the 29 00:01:34,333 --> 00:01:38,653 Speaker 3: world and the power of connectivity. And she talks much 30 00:01:38,733 --> 00:01:40,853 Speaker 3: more she gets through the book about how Facebook really 31 00:01:40,893 --> 00:01:43,413 Speaker 3: lost its way and grows corrupt and careless about its 32 00:01:43,453 --> 00:01:47,173 Speaker 3: impact on people, particularly marginalized people across the world. And 33 00:01:47,253 --> 00:01:49,373 Speaker 3: I do think a little bit about how Sarah's kind 34 00:01:49,373 --> 00:01:51,453 Speaker 3: of responsibility in this, and you know, this was a 35 00:01:51,533 --> 00:01:54,413 Speaker 3: job that she really wanted, and she really wanted to 36 00:01:54,493 --> 00:01:57,053 Speaker 3: help shape the policy and the company into something good. 37 00:01:57,053 --> 00:01:58,693 Speaker 3: And I think that really comes back to sort of 38 00:01:58,693 --> 00:02:03,293 Speaker 3: how she sees herself as an idealist. And it's fascinating 39 00:02:03,373 --> 00:02:06,093 Speaker 3: reading and you know how so many people in the 40 00:02:06,093 --> 00:02:09,413 Speaker 3: world now are just careless out for themselves, and you know, 41 00:02:09,453 --> 00:02:12,253 Speaker 3: that battle of egos and greed and desire for more power, 42 00:02:12,453 --> 00:02:15,053 Speaker 3: and so I think she probably reflects what a lot 43 00:02:15,093 --> 00:02:18,613 Speaker 3: of ex employees have spoken about some and veiled references 44 00:02:18,693 --> 00:02:21,173 Speaker 3: a lot of people anonymously, and she's chosen ready to 45 00:02:21,173 --> 00:02:24,053 Speaker 3: come out and write about that experience and how social 46 00:02:24,053 --> 00:02:27,093 Speaker 3: media has completely changed in the place that we're in 47 00:02:27,493 --> 00:02:29,853 Speaker 3: with social media now, and how it affects our lives 48 00:02:29,853 --> 00:02:32,133 Speaker 3: and the impact that it has on you know, people 49 00:02:32,213 --> 00:02:34,693 Speaker 3: my age, but also you know, you look at how 50 00:02:34,893 --> 00:02:36,893 Speaker 3: the impact it has on kids that have really grown 51 00:02:36,933 --> 00:02:38,853 Speaker 3: up with us. So I think she she writes a 52 00:02:38,893 --> 00:02:42,933 Speaker 3: really interesting, you know, kind of thought process behind this, 53 00:02:43,053 --> 00:02:45,013 Speaker 3: and I think it's kind of an interesting point to 54 00:02:45,013 --> 00:02:47,453 Speaker 3: throw in the mix when you're looking at social media. 55 00:02:47,533 --> 00:02:49,733 Speaker 2: Yeah right, okay, cool. I can't wait to read that. 56 00:02:49,733 --> 00:02:52,453 Speaker 2: That's Careless People by Cerah and Williams. You've also read 57 00:02:52,733 --> 00:02:56,013 Speaker 2: My Name Is Amelia del Vaillier by Isabelle Ayinde. 58 00:02:57,333 --> 00:02:59,893 Speaker 3: So this is set in Chile in the eighteen eighties 59 00:02:59,973 --> 00:03:03,173 Speaker 3: and Amelia Develle doesn't have the most or specially start 60 00:03:03,173 --> 00:03:06,253 Speaker 3: really in life. Her wealthy ch Chilean fa A band 61 00:03:06,613 --> 00:03:09,853 Speaker 3: her mother, Wally Walsh, before she's even born. But Molly 62 00:03:09,933 --> 00:03:14,733 Speaker 3: remarries and Amelia ready regards her stepfather as her real 63 00:03:14,773 --> 00:03:18,213 Speaker 3: father in a sense, and it's his encouragement and with 64 00:03:18,293 --> 00:03:20,773 Speaker 3: her desire to write, and she starts out writing these 65 00:03:20,853 --> 00:03:23,573 Speaker 3: dime novels which are published under the name of Brandon Price, 66 00:03:24,453 --> 00:03:28,013 Speaker 3: and it's him that kind of really sets that light 67 00:03:28,133 --> 00:03:30,773 Speaker 3: of writing in her. And then eventually, when she grows up, 68 00:03:30,773 --> 00:03:33,733 Speaker 3: she persuades a mister Chamberlain, it the examiner in San Francisco, 69 00:03:33,853 --> 00:03:36,213 Speaker 3: to take her on as a journalist, and she's offered 70 00:03:36,253 --> 00:03:39,253 Speaker 3: the chance to go to Chile in eighteen ninety one 71 00:03:39,253 --> 00:03:41,493 Speaker 3: when civil war is brewing, and you get this real 72 00:03:41,573 --> 00:03:44,053 Speaker 3: first person narrative, and it gives the real feeling of 73 00:03:44,093 --> 00:03:46,613 Speaker 3: a memoir, and you meet the people she meets along 74 00:03:46,653 --> 00:03:49,693 Speaker 3: the way, and the acquaintances and interesting characters, and the 75 00:03:49,813 --> 00:03:52,493 Speaker 3: story of a journalist, and the descriptions of the place 76 00:03:52,573 --> 00:03:56,333 Speaker 3: like San Francisco and New York and Santiago almost feel 77 00:03:56,373 --> 00:03:59,013 Speaker 3: like you're right there. And the description of the events 78 00:03:59,053 --> 00:04:02,013 Speaker 3: and the people in the political secure situation, and the 79 00:04:02,053 --> 00:04:04,533 Speaker 3: fact that as a journalist in eighteen eighties that's almost 80 00:04:04,613 --> 00:04:07,333 Speaker 3: unheard of. This read this sture of this very strong 81 00:04:07,333 --> 00:04:10,133 Speaker 3: woman deeply connected with her family and culture, and it 82 00:04:10,133 --> 00:04:12,613 Speaker 3: has a wonderful sense of time and place, and the 83 00:04:12,693 --> 00:04:16,053 Speaker 3: translation from its original Spanish is superb and if you 84 00:04:16,093 --> 00:04:19,253 Speaker 3: love Isabella Lende then you will absolutely want to read. 85 00:04:19,053 --> 00:04:22,373 Speaker 2: This fantastic Okay, that's my name is Amelia del Vaille. 86 00:04:22,733 --> 00:04:25,573 Speaker 2: And Careless People by Sarah and Williams is Catherine's first book. 87 00:04:25,653 --> 00:04:28,013 Speaker 2: Both of those would of course be on the website. 88 00:04:28,373 --> 00:04:31,453 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 89 00:04:31,573 --> 00:04:34,373 Speaker 1: to News Talks ed B from nine am Saturday, or 90 00:04:34,453 --> 00:04:36,333 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.