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Speaker 1: Afternoon. So the Vatican has swung into action following the

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Speaker 1: Pope's death. The College of Cardinals are going to decide

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Speaker 1: today when to move his body into Saint Peter's Basilica

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Speaker 1: for a public viewing. Now. So, David Moxon met the

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Speaker 1: Pope a number of times. He was the Archbishop of

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Speaker 1: Canterbury's representative to the Holy See, and he's with us now, David, Hya,

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Speaker 1: hi Hi. There was he as fun a personality in

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Speaker 1: real life as he's been portrayed?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think meeting him personally, behind the big formal

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Speaker 2: statements and the big receptions, he comes across as relaxed

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Speaker 2: as he does in public. I don't think he was

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Speaker 2: two different people. It was kind of like setting down

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Speaker 2: with your favorite uncle when you were with him one

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Speaker 2: to one, and he was often like that with a crowd.

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Speaker 2: He called them brothers and sisters. He spoke anecdotally, personally, lovingly,

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Speaker 2: like an uncle in a crowd of forty five thousand people,

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Speaker 2: or sitting down and say with King y Tu Haitia

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Speaker 2: or people from all over the world. He was the same.

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Speaker 1: Was that a personality or was that his training as

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Speaker 1: a Jesuit priest.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a bit of both. He grew up

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Speaker 2: in an Italian family in Argentina and that Italian love

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Speaker 2: of family and cousins and friends and guests. I think

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Speaker 2: table hospitality is very real, extroverted, warm, loving culture. I

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Speaker 2: think that was from his childhood. But the Jesuits also

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Speaker 2: took the view that you should welcome everyone as if

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Speaker 2: they were Christ. You should see the image of God

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Speaker 2: and everybody, and I think that combined with his upbringing.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he was the reformer in the Church

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Speaker 1: that we had expected him to be.

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Speaker 2: He was intending to be the reformer we hoped he

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Speaker 2: would be. And what he found, as everybody finds in

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Speaker 2: a large global institution with huge numbers of volunteers, is

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Speaker 2: that you have to be very careful, you have to

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Speaker 2: be very evocative, you have to be patient, you have

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Speaker 2: to look to the long goal. And he achieved some

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Speaker 2: major wins, and he had some major areas where he

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Speaker 2: wasn't able to achieve everything he hoped. But I think

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Speaker 2: all in all, he did a remarkable job. Given the

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Speaker 2: vast variety of people around the world who belong to

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Speaker 2: the Catholic Church, but also their colleagues and other denominations,

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Speaker 2: and other faiths.

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Speaker 1: I mean one indication, I guess what we're looking at

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Speaker 1: to see whether the church has moved in a more

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Speaker 1: liberal direction under him, you know, for the longer term,

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Speaker 1: is whether the next pope is a liberal as well.

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Speaker 1: What do you rate the chances of that happening or

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Speaker 1: will it be a swing back to conservatism?

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Speaker 2: Only a Roman Catholic in the courier in the conclave

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Speaker 2: could answer that. My view as an observer partner from

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Speaker 2: the outside is that most of the cardinals and the

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Speaker 2: conclave are chosen by the Pope there off that age group,

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Speaker 2: that he chose them and put them in position so

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Speaker 2: he would be I did progress the mission of the church,

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Speaker 2: who would help to keep the church open, unhospitable, warm

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Speaker 2: and loving and like him. And I think that it

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Speaker 2: would be highly likely that the next pope would be

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Speaker 2: someone who would respect the pontificate of Pope Francis.

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Speaker 1: Hiy, David, thank you. I really appreciate your time that

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Speaker 1: Sir David Moxon, who is the former Anglican representative to

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Speaker 1: the Holy See. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks.

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