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Speaker 1: More trouble and energy. For the first quarter of this year,

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Speaker 1: gas production was down twenty percent. Now the trouble is

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Speaker 1: the demand isn't now the word they're now using apparently

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Speaker 1: as crisis commercial users are facing unsustainable price hikes or

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Speaker 1: not being able to renew their contracts. According to Shane Jones,

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Speaker 1: is all the previous governments.

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Speaker 2: Since twenty eighteen and nineteen. When the curtain came down

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Speaker 2: on the industry, people stopped drilling, people lost confidence that

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Speaker 2: there would be no future this fossil fuel in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Echelon Resources formerly in New Zealand Oil and Gas CEO

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Speaker 1: Andrew Jefferies is, well, that's very good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Mike.

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Speaker 1: So Jones was blaming the previous government. Is Jones right?

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Speaker 3: I think I do believe that Shane Jones is correct. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So yeah, the previous government was influenced very much by

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Speaker 3: the Greens with the de industrialization agenda. And look, I

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Speaker 3: think that ideologic call thinking got as to where we

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Speaker 3: are at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Is it the looking or the finding even if we

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Speaker 1: were looking, could we find or is that a problem

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Speaker 1: potentially as well?

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Speaker 3: I think you've got a look to find Mike. So

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Speaker 3: if you aren't looking, then you're not going to do

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Speaker 3: any finding.

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Speaker 1: If we start looking, can we solve this problem? Are

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Speaker 1: you bullish on that or we just don't know.

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Speaker 3: Look, we can't solve this year's problem by looking because

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Speaker 3: it's a long term industry. So I think we've got

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Speaker 3: a couple of a couple of different aspects. You've got

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Speaker 3: a short term aspect, and I think in the short

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Speaker 3: term we're going to see the government having to buy

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Speaker 3: or somebody having to buy out long term users contracts.

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Speaker 3: That's going to reduce exports. That's not going to be

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Speaker 3: great for the country, and it's going to put jobs

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Speaker 3: at risk.

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Speaker 1: Who we buying these contracts from.

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Speaker 3: Look, you'll have to buy them from the folks who

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Speaker 3: use the gas and have long term industrial contracts, and

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Speaker 3: so from the power producers who use gas as well.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to have to supplement that demand with

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Speaker 3: coal in the power industry, and you're just going to

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Speaker 3: have to probably have to reduce exports. And as I say,

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Speaker 3: that always puts pressure on those companies to see whether

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Speaker 3: they think it's a reliable place to produce goods in

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Speaker 3: New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: So we can I get that. So you're painting me

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Speaker 1: a big picture there and you're depressing me at the

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Speaker 1: same time. Can we for this winter, get this all

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Speaker 1: this coal importation that we're doing at the moment and

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Speaker 1: the stockpiles and stuff. Can we get through the winter

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Speaker 1: with an alternative light coal or hope it rains or whatever.

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Speaker 3: I think it's. Look, I think it's the stockpile and

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Speaker 3: hope strategy. So and I think that, well, that's the

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Speaker 3: thing to get us through this winter. Looking longer term,

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Speaker 3: is where we can where we have a few more

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Speaker 3: levers to pull and on the supply side, we can

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Speaker 3: encourage companies to do that looking that we were talking about,

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Speaker 3: and they're going to need support, and they're going to

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Speaker 3: need support from both sides of government to do that,

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Speaker 3: because our industry can't operate in a place where you

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Speaker 3: don't know what the next government's going to do. So

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Speaker 3: I think there needs to be a bipartisan coming together.

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Speaker 1: I just wonder if you're going to get that. Having

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Speaker 1: said that, well, I mean you've got the Greens.

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Speaker 3: Correct, correct, and I think, you know, I think the

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Speaker 3: Labor Party really has to have a bit of a

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Speaker 3: think about to what extent there their link up, how

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Speaker 3: important their link up to the Greens is in terms

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Speaker 3: of the country's ability to be a competitive exporter and

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Speaker 3: to take its place in the global in the global markets.

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Speaker 1: You sound depressed, and you've you've depressed me. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a country on its knees already, Andrew, and you're

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Speaker 1: just telling we cannot get out of our own way.

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Speaker 3: I think we can in the longer term, Mike, And

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Speaker 3: luckily folks in the past have had the foresight to

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Speaker 3: have a large coal fired power station, which we still

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Speaker 3: have and we haven't shut that down. So look, we

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Speaker 3: have that gas is a fantastic has a fantastic ability

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Speaker 3: to provide energy where it's needed. And I think people

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Speaker 3: don't realize in New Zealand we have gas provides about

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Speaker 3: the same amount of energy as electricity does, so you

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Speaker 3: can't do without the gas. If you wanted to do

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Speaker 3: without the gas, you've got to double the size of

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Speaker 3: the electrical system for a start. So we've got a

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Speaker 3: real opportunity here, and we have gas here, so we

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Speaker 3: can supply gas locally with support and we'll probably have

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Speaker 3: to encourage explorers to come in and have a go.

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Speaker 3: You can also import natural gas.

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Speaker 1: Well, we were going to do that when we ran

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Speaker 1: out of power last one to what happened to that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, I think those things, those things take a while.

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Speaker 3: You can't just magic anything into existence. But and so

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Speaker 3: so I'm not sure why it hasn't progressed further than

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Speaker 3: it has mine. But the reality is it's pretty expensive.

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Speaker 3: Somebody's got to pay, and I think it takes a

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Speaker 3: while to get to a point where, you know, things

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Speaker 3: get bad enough that there's a willing somebody willing to pay.

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Speaker 1: All right, I will follow it up with Simming and Brown.

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Speaker 1: He was the man who made the promise. Andrew, listen,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate your inside very much. Andrew Jefferies, who'se Exchelon Resources.

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Speaker 1: They will want some oil and gas. Do look up

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Speaker 1: the MS trade point story that's been floating around the

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Speaker 1: last twenty four hours. This was transpowered. They were going

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Speaker 1: to sell it, and if they weren't going to sell

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Speaker 1: it because they couldn't sell it, they were going to

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Speaker 1: close it down until yesterday they suddenly decided we might

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Speaker 1: need a.

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Speaker 3: Bit of it.

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Speaker 1: So all in all, it's just yet another insight into

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Speaker 1: how bugged we are.

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Speaker 3: For more from the mic, asking Breakfast. Listen live to

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